Good info Tim, thanks.

Hello Daniel. It is true, they are all owned by the same parent company, the Vitec Group plc:

http://www.vitecgroup.com/group/group_overview.aspx



Thanks for the support.. and for the complete information.

The HD100 is an excessively heavy camera, can a normal tripod handle it for say a VX2000 or do you need a different tripod? What tripod works with this camera? I'm on a VERY limited budget and I need to get a t-pod under 200 dollars that won't break when the camera is mounted on it, something pretty tall too, any recommendations?

The HD100 excessively heavy? Compared with other sholder camera's, I had to add batteries on the back to make it more heavy to balance better for my taste.

Diogo, the 503 head can use the 501plong plate which has much more travel than the stock plate. I'm sure you could balance your camera with a longer plate on the 503. The 519 is the next model up that uses the same plate. It has a 75mm half-ball mount instead of the 3/8" screw on a flat base.

My god what is happening. Now the only independent support company is...Miller? (Video, only one I can think of). So...in a few years will a Hotpod be $200 instead of $2000...?

That I wouldnt mind, but I'm worried about Sachtler and Vinten losing their quality. I still have a Sachtler Video 20 head older than I am, and Vinten legs that have been around the world twice, but I've never owned a piece of Bogen equipment that didnt go more than 3 years withought haveing to be reserviced / replaced (that goes for everything, from leg locks and QR plates to pan bars and heads). Sachtler and Vinten have been the standard for years, but now will the quality drop? I've already seen some lack in the Vinten tripods the past 3 or so years, and Sachtler beginning to use more plastic parts...but the prices we paid for should be the quality we expect.

...or should this be a totally different thread?

Hi,

I'm new to the forum and looking for advice on tripod heads. I have a Bogen/Manfrotto 3021 legs but need a different head for use with the JVC GY-HD100U(A). Wondering if I should go with the 501? I also have an older ITE T40 tripod and wondering if there is a head/plate for it that I should purchase instead of the Bogen since the T40 has larger/more heavy duty legs.

Appreciate any advise.

Thank you,
Lisa

I would at least get the 503 because its fluid, the 501 is friction and by most ppls account crappy.

Hi,

Thanks you for the tip...I'll check into the 503.

Best,
Lisa

I 2nd that! Stay away from the 501! I have the 503 and am very happy with it. Plus the street price is only $250-- a bargin.

Dan
www.DVcameraRigs.com

All companies that belong to Vitec are independent and are competing with each other. Same as Panasonic and JVC that belong to the same owner... "Victor" something.

Danny

My god what is happening. Now the only independent support company is...Miller? (Video, only one I can think of). So...in a few years will a Hotpod be $200 instead of $2000...?
As Tim mentioned, Vinten bought the other companies in the early 80s, so these changes have been in place for well over two decades.

With so much control over the professional tripod market, I don't think they'll ever have reason to lower prices anytime soon.

Sorry for getting off-topic.

I 2nd that! Stay away from the 501! I have the 503 and am very happy with it. Plus the street price is only $250-- a bargin.

Dan
www.DVcameraRigs.com


Hi,

Are using it with the HD100U? The pics of the 503 make it look so small and just wondering. When I get the extra battery and wireless gear, will the 503 suffice?

**Also to all, I had posted a note about tripods in the HD100U section to see what those camera users have for tripods. That post was moved so that's why there are 2 threads. Just a note, sorry for the double thread.

Thank you
Lisa

Hi Lisa,

No, the 503 will hold that camera just fine. It's much larger than I believe you may imagine. I think the head is rated at 15lbs (I think!), and your camera is well under 10lbs, even with all the gizmos attached. If you live somewhere where you can check out the head in person, I'd take your camera in and plop it on there.

Best,

Dan Selakovich
www.DVcameraRigs.com

The 501 and the 503 are the same physical size, but inside they are very different. The 503 is a far better choice.

Another point in the 503s favor, that has not been mentioned, is that the 503 has counter balancing springs inside. The further you tilt it forward or back, the more the springs compensate for the weight of the camera. Without the springs, the camera would fall forward or back, unless you lock it down.

I had a 501 and I sold it and bought another 503.

Good Luck

I think the Cartoni Focus, Sachtler DV-6SB or Vinten Vision 3 would be better choices for the HD100. Although the 503 has a max load capacity of 13.2 lbs, its counterbalance spring is only rated for 5.5 lbs (at an unspecified CG height). The HD100, being a heavier and larger camera with a higher CG height, is more easily operated on a head that can keep it perfectly balanced.

True, these heads are expensive, but IMO, camera support is one thing that people should bite the bullet and buy the best they can afford. This equipment will likely outlast many generations of cameras and remember the old adage: buying cheap usually means buying twice =)

I've tried the Bogen 503 (not with the HD100) and it seems to be a bit of a lightweight. That and I've heard you get what you pay for and I'm willing to pay a little more if something is going to be better.

I've also used the 316 head with the HD100 and this was pretty much overkill as even at the least resistance it was still hard to pan & tilt.

I'm looking at the 516 for around $400. My only concern is that it says it's ideal at around 16lbs, but the HD100 + accessories is around 9lbs. Anyone using this head able to chime in? Can you decrease the resistance so that it moves fairly freely?

What do other people recommend for a head? I'm trying to stay within the Bogen/Manfrotto area because their stuff is generally cheaper and still can be pretty decent.
Thanks!

Bogen heads are not fluid - they are friction. I'd go with Miller, Cartoni or Sachtler. They are more money but worth every penny in the long run. Get a small loan and pay it off over a year if you have to. I personally have Sachtler SB6 with carbon fibre legs and it's great. I wouldn't even consider Bogen.

I use a 516 head with a PD150, a DSR 250 and have used it with a JVC5000U and a DSR450-it seems to work just fine with all but the 150 as its really too light for the head but by adjusting the tilt and pan it does work. The heavier the camera the better up to a point. The full sized cames all have a wireless reciever and an Anton Bauer Dionic battery on them so there is substanially more weight therefore it (the head) seems to be easier to control. I have no problem with the head and frankly like it very much. As for a 9 lb camera well it's heavier than the 150 but lighter than all the rest I use so it's hard to say but I believe it would work out just fine for you.

Don B

Thanks for your help. I actually went to go buy the Cartoni Focus from B&H, but when I got there it said it was on Back Order. :-( Does anyone know where to get this head? I need it next week. It looks like it'd work nice for me since it can be adjusted to any camera weight whereas the 516 is balanced for just one weight primarily. I truly like the Sachtlers (I have the DV-1), but their heads are very expensive if you want anything more than a DV-4 (and I do). Miller stuff is unholy-expensive and nothing makes a good fit for me.

So for now I put in an order for the 516 and we'll see how it goes. I'd prefer the Cartoni, but I can't wait 2-4 weeks for it unfortunately. (This is what I get for waiting). Any ideas on where to get one would be appreciated.

BTW, I'm getting the Bogen 3191 sticks.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=5453&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

check with zgc that's where i got mine from .

Bogen heads are not fluid - they are friction..

Is this true. How come BH Photo says they are fluid ?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=162660&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

For instance 501 description is:

With payload capacity of 13.2 lbs, the 501 fluid head is designed to support the latest range of small, professional digital cameras, offering the best price and performance for a head of this size. Light but positive fluid movement provides exceptionally smooth control through 360° pan and +90 to -60° tilt. It also has Teflon friction adjustment to increase drag, and separate pan and tilt locks. Other features include a built-in spirit level and a quick-release sliding plate for balancing the camera with 1/4" and 3/8" screws, plus VHS location pin.

Thanks for the reference, Abdul. I called them up. Travis was very polite and helpful, but alas it appears they are out of stock there as well...

I did find one place that has the F101 system in stock (because I called corporate), but they are much more expensive than anywhere else. I may just have to stick with the original plan and see how the Bogen works out.

Also, I found this post by a Manfrotto Product Manager who said that their heads are in fact "true" fluid heads. Not sure why everyone says they're not.
It's about half way down:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=31151&page=2&highlight=%22real+fluid%22+manfrotto

Thanks for the reference, Abdul. I called them up. Travis was very polite and helpful, but alas it appears they are out of stock there as well...

I did find one place that has the F101 system in stock (because I called corporate), but they are much more expensive than anywhere else. I may just have to stick with the original plan and see how the Bogen works out.

Also, I found this post by a Manfrotto Product Manager who said that their heads are in fact "true" fluid heads. Not sure why everyone says they're not.
It's about half way down:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=31151&page=2&highlight=%22real+fluid%22+manfrotto

Chad, thanks for the link. That explained the issue pretty well ....

Do yourself a favor and avoid those junky Bogen heads at all costs. The Cartoni Focus is nice and perfect for that camera, you will need a 100mm ball tripod though. Try EVSOnline.com if you cant find it anywhere else.

Mike

Do yourself a favor and avoid those junky Bogen heads at all costs. The Cartoni Focus is nice and perfect for that camera, you will need a 100mm ball tripod though. Try EVSOnline.com if you cant find it anywhere else.

Mike

I'm going to try, but they don't appear to be in stock anywhere. I don't want to pay out the nose for one either.

BTW, what do you think about the stock Cartoni F101 legs? I know they're not magic, but in case I need to buy a kit rather than just the head, are they as good or better than the Bogen 3191 legs? I like that these can extent outwards in order to go lower. Can the Cartoni legs do this? I would miss those extra 5 inches as well... :-(

What unfortunate bad timing... ZGC said they wouldn't get more for another 4-6 weeks! Customer with money, Cartoni! Hello? ? ?

Is this true. How come BH Photo says they are fluid ?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=162660&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation



Read this thread and you will know why it's not fluid: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=70707&highlight=inside+501

I have a F100 head en route from EVS right now. Also arriving today are the legs and 516 from B&H, so I'll be sure to do a trial w/ both of them to see how they compare.

EVS had two left in stock when I called. Unfortunately their shipping costs are a touch high (around $80 for 3-day). Then of course two days after I order, B&H has them in stock again (from whom I could have saved $75). That's life I guess. At least EVS was 5x more of a pleasure to work with over the phone than B&H.


Does anyone know where to get an extra pan bar for this head?

Would this work:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=233796&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation
Or how about this:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=216473&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

Thanks for your help. I think this tripod will be the last I need to buy for quite some time.

Bogen heads are not fluid - they are friction. I'd go with Miller, Cartoni or Sachtler. They are more money but worth every penny in the long run. Get a small loan and pay it off over a year if you have to. I personally have Sachtler SB6 with carbon fibre legs and it's great. I wouldn't even consider Bogen.

I hate Bogen as much as you Jiri, but Bogen does make ONE head that's at least comparable (but still inferior) to the likes of Sachtler and Cartoni.

It's the 526 (which was formerly sold as 510). It has 3 drag click stops for each pan and tilt, and it changes "gears" (fluid cartridges) just like a Sachtler. I have one, if on a budget it's the only Bogen that I can say is passable.

That 526 does sound nice, but it's pretty expensive! At B&H the head only is almost $1500. Maybe they've raised the prices since you got it Nate. At the $1500 level I would definitely encourage looking around at the other brands, since even among high-end heads they all feel and operate slightly differently.

Chad, you might want to call up the USA Cartoni distributor (Ste-Man in L.A. 818-760-8240) to confirm the right pan handle. If I remember right, the pan handle attachment point (the rosette) on the Focus isn't the same size as their bigger heads and Cartoni's rosette isn't necessarily compatible with those from Bogen or any other brand.

That 526 does sound nice, but it's pretty expensive! At B&H the head only is almost $1500. Maybe they've raised the prices since you got it Nate. At the $1500 level I would definitely encourage looking around at the other brands,

Doh. Yeah. I paid less than $1k for mine, which made it a pretty good value. At $1500 I'd look into others.

I think my post was more along the lines of "eh, Bogen makes like, *1* good head!"

Well, I've had a Bogen 503 for a year. I can say, as of right now, I hate it. The stiction on pans and especially tilts, when zoomed in, is horribly noticable. There is no setting to get rid of it unless it is completely loose.

Ok, so I have both heads with me now. I have to send one back, but I'm still a little on the fence as to which that will be.

I have some concerns about the Focus head. It doesn't seem that it can be fully balanced at all angles. I've played with it for quite some time and in order to get any balance I need to mount it in an awkward way with the plate on the other side of the emergency stopper. In this way it hangs half way off the head... Any ideas on how to fix this? -A longer mount plate? What about rod supports? The HD100 is a really back-heavy camera w/ the pro batts. No matter what I try, it will not hold still at all angles. I can balance it for a good functional range, but not everything.

Also the pan bar is very flimsy. The Bogen head has rock solid bars (x2) and the Cartoni came with just one chopstick-like bar, which has a large amount of play in it, especially when extended. I still can't find any replacement handle online. The handles for the Delta heads are around $170.

Over all I'm feeling a bit under-whelmed by the Focus -especially for the price. My expectations were maybe a little too high. The action is very strong and smooth -better than the 516. It doesn't spring back slightly when you come to a stop like the 516, and it’s easier to get a smooth pan. And since all that matters really is what the camera sees, I'll probably stick with the Focus (if I can figure out a solution for the mounting plate). But for look and feel, the 516 is a more solid build to me. At least the QR plate is long enough to balance this camera.

It's basically like comparing a great prosumer head with a not-so-great professional head. At least that's the feeling I get. Any thoughts?

i'd like to echo the sentiments made by Jiri, Mike, and Richard. I own a Bogen 501 head, have so for years. I don't like it. I find it's pretty near impossible to make smooth corrections from a stand-still without a jerk at the start.
In 2005 I went to NAB. If you've never gone, go, its really great. Anyway, I tried every tripod I could that would be suitable for my Canon XL2. I've found that the best way to test a head's smoothness it to try making small corrections from a still postion, and zoomed in if you really want to torture test it. Long story short, Bogen was the worst, Miller Arrow 30 was the best (I tried the Arrow 30 with an XL2) and by far the most expensive ($5199). One thing I found was that there wasn't much inbetween that I felt would really work for me. Keep in mind though for slow, small corrective movement, I like a fairly heavy amount of resistance, so someone who likes a really loose feel might have found more tripods to their liking. A light feel is great IF you can pull off the smooth movement that you need.
It's been over year since then, but I finally chose to upgrade my tripod, and I ordered the Miller Arrow 30 (waiting for it to be shipped). It's movement was flawless, and I actually found that the most resistance I wanted still wasn't the highest resistance setting on the head. Now this may seem like overkill, but I just wanted to end game the tripod situation, and I felt that it was worth the investment. I think that a tripod can almost be more important than the camera. This will sound silly, but I shot a video about horse riding, and used a Sachtler Video 20 tripod, with a Canon ZR10! All my tracking, panning shots were nice and smooth, and the client was really happy with the final product! Don't get me wrong, I love my XL2, but I think the sticks that you put under your camera can be just as important as anything else in the production, but again, that's only if you're the type of shooter that likes steady shots. There's lots of creative, effective, handheld work being done out there, which can really work.

I have some concerns about the Focus head. It doesn't seem that it can be fully balanced at all angles. I've played with it for quite some time and in order to get any balance I need to mount it in an awkward way with the plate on the other side of the emergency stopper. In this way it hangs half way off the head... Any ideas on how to fix this?

The JVC KA551U tripod adapter should allow you to balance it. It's pretty expensive but IMO worth it because you can quickly dismount and mount the camera without changing the balance and you won't have a long plate on the bottom of your camera. You can also use a standard Sony VCT-14 plate but you'd have to get the wedge plate separately. See this thread:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=69072


It's basically like comparing a great prosumer head with a not-so-great professional head. At least that's the feeling I get. Any thoughts?

That's pretty much the same conclusion I came too. But the Cartoni head is only $800 so it is what it is. A real professional head start at $1500 or $2000 and go way up from there. I use to think it was crazy to spend $2K, $3K or even $4K on a fluid head. But then I told myself to stop to monkeying around and just get the best head you can. It'll be cheaper in the long run and you'll be happier from the get-go, especially if you're a stable shot freak like me. I hate handheld.

But even if money was no object, one problem with getting a professional head is most of them are designed for ENG cameras so they won't balance a smaller, lighter camera. Cal, how were you able to operate the ZR10 on that Sachtler Video 20? I think the lightest spring setting on that head is 22 lbs. Were you just fighting the counterbalance spring?

Cal, how were you able to operate the ZR10 on that Sachtler Video 20? I think the lightest spring setting on that head is 22 lbs. Were you just fighting the counterbalance spring?

Absolutely. I had to keep the resistance under control, but it still worked really well. Not ideal though.

I was looking on the JVC website and one of the accessories listed was the KA-551U tripod adapter. My question is can I mount the camera on a tripod without the $300 adapter?

Yes. I mounted mine on a bogan 503 head just fine.

Yes, you can. The tripod plate is a nice quick release, and allows you to balance the camera a lot better.

For bigger tripods, it's a must-have. I don't think I could mount the camera on my Miller 25 without that plate.

I have had a continuing relationship with Bogen tripod products, in stills and video realms, for many years.

I got the mini and micro fluid heads and respective legs to hold smaller cams when shooting vhs. When I got a heavier pro camera weighing 25 lbs, I tried a used Miller 20 head and Bolex legs. I eventually sold all of it.

Then I had a 20 lb pro SVHS cam and got the 3191 legs and 516 head. The load was just over capacity, and there was enough play in the system to make it visible on screen unless I moved things, pan or tilt, very gingerly. There was not enough counterbalance force to prevent nose over. There may have been enough with a lighter and smaller cam, and I credit the design for having somewhat variable counterbalance force. But it lacked compared to a higher end Sachtler or similar. I sold the camera and that tripod system and got a PD 150 and eventually a Bogen 501 head for my older aluminum legs.

I know for a fact that the 501 and other Bogen heads are not real fluid in the sense of an O'Connor, Sachtler, or Cartoni from having disassembled them to replace the grease. They contain concentric staggered rings which create a fluid effect when the grease acts as a lubricant between them. The pan part is a simple cylinder in housing with similar grease.

I'm interested in getting the tripod plate, but haven't seen one for the HD100U in person. Does it work like other ENG plates in the fact there is metal attachements that are fixed to the bottom of the JVC and then the camera clicks into place on the plate? Or does the HD100 as is fixate itself onto this plate?

It comes with a small metal piece that screws onto the bottom of the camera. That then snaps into the plate that is mounted on the tripod head.

I'm interested in getting the tripod plate, but haven't seen one for the HD100U in person. Does it work like other ENG plates in the fact there is metal attachements that are fixed to the bottom of the JVC and then the camera clicks into place on the plate? Or does the HD100 as is fixate itself onto this plate?


Chris

I have one for sale if you are interested. Its listed here

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=75863&highlight=KA-551U

Regards


Andrew

Hi Mack, I'm also in Seattle and use the JVC. I bought a basic Manfrotto tripod and plate, and it works great.

I’m I the market to buy a tripod very soon and I’m especially concerned about the tripod head. Among other manufacturers I’m considering, I’m looking at Bogen / Manfrotto.

I own a JVC HD100. It's clear that a Bogen 503 would handle the weight adequately, but I'm also interested in the 516 mostly because I want to be prepared should I add on a lot of extra weight like a matte box, a 35mm prime converter, wireless receivers, etc. But I’m also curious about overall quality which accounts for one of my two questions.

Except for its ability to handle a greater weight, is the 516 a better head than the 503? If so, why?

And, if I had a 516 but was using the HD100 pretty much as it comes stock (except with the noted addition of an AB Dionic 90 and possibly the Titan 70 charger attached as well) would it actually be worse for pans and tilts than the 503 because the camera would be too light (although not by much with the battery attached)?

Thank you for your help.

Can't help with the bogans but can Help with the sticks. The monfotto sticks are solid and will work well with bogans as a lot of folks here use that setup. I have monfotto sticks and a monfotto 701rc2 head. It is alright for a second camera setup but not for panning or tilting without it sticking. Im now going for a miller 1511 solo sticks and a ds10 head setup, this may be outside your budget but these will probley last 10 to 20 years if not more and will give you clean movement with verible stiffness for fast or slow pans or tilts. Oh and it also can go down on all three's to get you 25 cm off the ground. Think long and hard on your sticks as they will probley last a life time.

I use the 501 head with my hd100 with all the add ons matte box rails follow focus wireless receivers and it handles the weight fine.

I personally think the 501 is a better head than the 503, the 501 is more fluid and smooth.Never tried the 516.

andy.

I'm rather reluctant to bump my own question here up to the top, but I need to get this tripod soon and sadly, have nowhere nearby to test one. Basically I'm trying to choose between several Bogens: the 501, 503, and the 516. The 526 is too expensive for me right now.

From what I've read around here about the 501 it doesn't seem quite sturdy enough, and has been said to start and stop with some jerking motion.

I've heard both good and bad about the 503, but its counter-balance spring weight isn't quite right for the HD100 especially if I add some accessories. And so that has lead me to the 516, so I'm asking again if anyone here has any specific experience with it.

It is somewhat ironic that I am looking at the Bogen / Manfrottos since the only tripods I've ever used were Sachtlers and Vintens. But those models cost thousands of dollars and I have no idea about their lower end products, while I have at least heard some comments about the sub $1000 Bogens.

So... after this shameless bump of my post-- any help before I make my buy later today (within 12 hours most likely)?

Maat,

Have you seen this review on Studio Monthly; http://www.studiodaily.com/studiomonthly/searchlist/5997.html? It covers many of the heads in your price range. You may need to register to see the review however, but it's free.

On another note, I use the 505 with the HD100 and love the option of interchangeable springs. Unfortunately, this head has been discontinued but is similar to the Gitzo.

I use the 501 head with my hd100 with all the add ons matte box rails follow focus wireless receivers and it handles the weight fine.

I personally think the 501 is a better head than the 503, the 501 is more fluid and smooth.Never tried the 516.

andy.

I don't have the same equipment as above, but I do agree that the 501 is more fluid than the 503, having done a side by side with both. A Bogen representative told me that the 503 has an additional fluid cartridge.

However, I don't think the 501 is such a great head either, and I am considering getting a Sachtler, Vinten, or Cartoni system. Doing smooth moves with the 501 is very tricky, especially in HD.

I use the 503 head with the HD100, loaded with an IDX kit at the back, I find it's good for most purposes, although I find it difficult to do a fast pan followed by a sharp stop, as the head seems to always creep on a tiny bit at the end of the movement