Can anyone tell me if it is possible to capture and edit high res footage with this camera, firstly and ideally with Final Cut Pro and if not, with anything?

The camera has a P50 function but with lower resolution which according to JVC can be edited. But they said that the High Res cannot as it is P25.
I am waiting for clarification as to whether they mean just on FCP.
I cannot belieive that the main feature of this camera (hi res) cannot be used.
I now own a JVC Gy HD100 and I want to use this as a B camera. Is this a good idea? And is it possible to mix 2 formats on one timeline? If not how do I convert the two to match?
Martin

that is correct, the PD1 is not able to deliver HD content, only the HD1 (the 30p american version) is able to output HDV at 1280x720p.
the european model is only able to output an "enhanced" PAL progressive signal that is unfortunately not supported by most editing systems.

From the quality point of view, having 30p is definitely better than 25p.

Thanks for the reply Giroid,

I'm feeling a little confused, silly and very angry that I bought this camera because of its Hi Res feature when in actual fact it is completely useless. Is that correct?
I mean, are there any uses for this feature? Surely!!!
If that's the case are there not a lot of irrate customers out there who feel the same?
I'm fairly new to this game as you've probably gathered but wouldn't a company be extremely embarrassed if what they had gloated about was in fact a white elephant?
I have been told that editing the P50 mode is possible and if so is it very different to Hi Res?

Absolutely bewildered

Martin

in fact the HD1 has 3 modes.
the DV 60i, the SD 60p and the HDV 720p mode.
Since the SD 60p and the HDV are mpeg2 versus the real plain DV, you need special software to capture it.
Cineform software is great from this point of view.
For the european model, you still get 3 modes.
The DV, the SD 50p and the PAL+ (also called PAL HiRes) mode.
since this format is not part of the many HD modes available, you will not find a software (except probably the one provided with the camera) able to deal with that.
There are many reviews of the PD1, reffering to the the specs of the HD1, that is why there were many misunderstood about the capacity of the PD1 to shoot HDV.
By the way if you are interested by the HDV, the sony HC1, HC3 can bring you a better picture for cheaper.
The only advantage of this early HD1 was to provide 720p for very cheap, a feature you can't get today without spending several thousand dollars.
The 60p or 50p mode is also really nice for slowmotion or sport.

for your info, i got an new, unused HD1 with underwater case.

Many have reported that the 25p mode after capture works out to 1050x576 which can be up-rezed to match 1280x720 quite well. That said I have never used the European version. Try doing a search here, (Dig, Dig, Dig!) as this has been discussed many times. Of course the footage can be captured and edited (both modes 50p and 25p) but it may take a few work arounds for the Mac. I am sure it would make a decent B roll cam if you have the patience to learn the in's and out's. My suggestion would be to use the 50p mode in B roll as this would give you a full time slo-mo.

Thanks Ken

I am trying to get my head around a lot of this technical stuff. I have heard slow motion mentioned before in the P50, what exactly do you mean.
Also, the resolution won't be as good as the hi-res will it?

Another point: if I use this as a broll cam is it possible to edit together with footage from my Hd100?
I would imagine I enter another arena altogether there, correct?

Cheers

Martin

i am not sure, but all 3 modes of the PD1 seems to deliver 4:3 ratio.
that will be tricky to mix with a 16:9 HDV ratio.
For the 50p mode, there is no real improvement of resolution versus the 50i mode (except in still picture).
you just get a full picture while the interlaced mode give you half the line a the same instant.
that is why slow motion is a lot better, because your 50p becomes a 100i very easily, just by playing it slower.
again , you have to decide if you are looking for progressive or hi-res.
For hi-res, the PD1 is not the good choice, while it is ok for progressive.
if you need hi-res, take a sony HC1 or HC3.
If you need hi-res progressive (720p), the HD1 would fit, as long you can manage to shoot in 30p only. Conversion from 30p to 25p is possible, but it is defenitely not in favour of keeping image quality.
As you said, the PD1 is a white elephant....

Many have reported that the 25p mode after capture works out to 1050x576 which can be up-rezed to match 1280x720 quite well.

25p of the PD1 is an anamorphotic 720x576 format. Just like widescreen dv. The reason some people think it outputs 1050x576 (or 1049x576 or 1048x576) is only because this is the way many NLE displays handles the widescreen stuff. It is the adaption of non-square pixels of an widescreen 720x576 signal.

I found - if you want 4:3 then best way to go is with the 50p mode. While by just playbacking this signal you won't see that much of advantage 'gainst the dv mode. But the 50p signal is not only better when using slomos but even for many kinds of filtering and fx works especially when zooming and panning in postpro. Much better than doing this with an SD interlaced signal.
Since I found this - when I need 4:3 I always use the PD1 50p mode.

If you want 16:9 then use the 25p mode. It outputs anamorphotic 720x576 but the details and sharpness is just great.

What you get when using PD1 25p or 50p is not comparable with HDV but I think it's much better than anything you'd get from a consumer dv camera.

Marco

Thanks Marco but how the hell do you manage to edit 25p. From all accounts it is just not possible.
I would love to know different.
Thanks
Martin

I capture the 25p or 50p footage using the capture tool delivered with the PD1 (called "JVC MPEG-Capture") via firewire.

I then import the footage into Vegas and adapt the project properties to the footage properties. Now editing is just like dv editing.

In the end I use to render that stuff to a regular video dvd.

Marco

i am not sure, but all 3 modes of the PD1 seems to deliver 4:3 ratio.

The HDV modes 25p and 50p are 16:9. I'm not sure about the interlaced DV mode. Never used the DV mode on my HD10, so I don't know.

Martin, the benefit of using the 50p mode is that when it is dropped into a 25p time line the footage will be at an automatic 50% slo-mo. Yes it is lower resolution, but upscales very well. I have upscaled the 480p60 footage of the HD10 and mixed it in with 720p no problems. It is a butter smooth, render free slo-mo, so that helps to compensate. As a suggestion I would recommend the PD1 be used in more of a close-up cam, especially if you plan to use the 50p mode as B-roll. This helps to offset any resolution differance. Just get yourself some cheap ND filters or dual pola's for variable ND. Lock your shutter and then adjust you ND level if needed.

i am not sure, but all 3 modes of the PD1 seems to deliver 4:3 ratio.

The HDV modes 25p and 50p are 16:9. I'm not sure about the interlaced DV mode. Never used the DV mode on my HD10, so I don't know.

Martin, the benefit of using the 50p mode is that when it is dropped into a 25p time line the footage will be at an automatic 50% slo-mo. Yes it is lower resolution, but upscales very well. I have upscaled the 480p60 footage of the HD10 and mixed it in with 720p no problems. It is a butter smooth, render free slo-mo, so that helps to compensate. As a suggestion I would recommend the PD1 be used in more of a close-up cam, especially if you plan to use the 50p mode as B-roll. This helps to offset any resolution differance. Just get yourself some cheap ND filters or dual pola's for variable ND. Lock your shutter and then adjust you ND level if needed. It will probably want to default to 1/50 th shutter when in 50p mode as long a lighting doesn't get too bright (ND's) so you can just lock the exposure.

50p can be either 4:3 or 16:9 depending on a menu selectioin.

I find the the PD1 50p 4:3 mode superior regarding quality and it is the better choice when mixing that footage with other 4:3 dv camera footage. I sometimes use the PD1 to shoot concerts with other Canon dv cams. I then use the PD1 50p mode in 4:3 to do some zooming and panning and output - together with the Canon clips - in 4:3 50i. There's not much different then though the PD1 footage was zoomed.

Marco

Thanks Ken
dropping the footage shot on 50p into a timeline with footage shot in 720p on my HD100 in HDV sounds very great if that's what you mean?
However,how do I upscale as you mentioned?

By the way, as far as I'm aware there are no ND filters on the PD1. Of course there are on my HD100.


Thanks in advance

Martin

Not sure how things will work on the MAC. Or what is needed to get the 50p footage usable, if anything at all. You may need to upsample first, or simply drop it in. Don't know sorry.

As far a ND's go they are 52mm. Go buy a cheap set or search "dual polarizer" in this forum.

Hey folks,
i just want to say that I use this camera with the biuld-in vegas 6 plung in to capture the video and I work withour problems in PAL hiser mode.
Also the HD connect is very useful but no problem to edit the mpeg2 stream.
There is also Ulead MEdiastudio PRo 8 that works with this camera.
have a nice day!
Sulu.

Yes unfortunately Apple has been less the friendly with anything non Sony HDV or Pana DVCproHD. They still don't support 24/25p from the HD100, nevermind the lowly PD1. Sad. Get a PC for input ingest. Convert to uncompressed or Quicktime or BitJazz and bring into the Mac.

Hey Ken,

I have read on the forum that Final Cut Pro has just released an update which supports 24p and 25p for the HD100. I haven't tried it yet but that's the scoop.
Do you have other info.?
Cheers

Martin

The PD1's claim to fame is that it is progressive rather than interlaced and that it actually downconverts from HD 'in-camera'.

These two qualities can sometimes give footage an edge - but it's a three year old, standard definition version of the HD1 so ultimately quite limited.

Sorry Graham,

what do you mean that it down converts 'in camera'?

Look at your manual and you'll see that in Hi-Res mode the PD1 captures with all the definition of the HD1, but outputs lower resolution.

Why?

Back when I owned the camera and dialogued with other PD1 owners, one of the things we came to accept was that the HD1 and PD1 were the same camera internally.

We believed that when JVC went to market their new HD baby in Europe they felt there would be wider pick up if the highest quality shooting mode could be viewed on SD equipment because Europe had not made the early strides into HD like America had.

We spent a lot of time hoping that the firmware could be hacked to capitalise on the PD1's potential.

Here's a old blog about the PD1 here which may be useful to you.

http://jvcgr-pd1.blogspot.com/

The blog doesn't mention Mpeg Streamclip which is free to download and can convert the PD1's Hi-Res mode into many different formats.

If you go halfway down the blog you will see a Peter Jackson (King Kong) bit by Sanjin.

"7. The camera captures video at a resolution of 1280 x 659 pixels, with 25 progressivelyscanned frames per second. The output/capture picture size starts with 1024x576 pixels in m2t file (MPEG-TS). That size can be easy up convert to the smaller HD scan line count withthe higher resolution progressive scan of 1280x720 pixels in 10 bit uncompressed file withvery little, if any, quality loss."

Why is he believing he gets 1024X576? I debated him on this back in the day, and even had Ken Freed of JVC explain that the captured resolution is 720x576. So what is he talking about?

Unfortunately I don't know what Sanjin meant by that either.

The picture printed to tape has been downconverted to SD and this can neither be gotten around or undone.

But just like watching HD footage on SD television screens and admiring it more than SD footage, you did get a HD feel within the PD1's straitjacket.

The component out on a progressive monitor, for instance, didn't look like SD at all.

>> Why is he believing he gets 1024X576?

I think this is because if an NLE correctly displays the 16:9 HiRes output, which indeed is 720x576 non-square pixel, the NLE would use 1024x576 square pixel.

It's only the math to get from non-square footage to square pixel display without distorting the image.

Many people was mislead by that.

Marco