I've been testing different scene files from these gentlemen for a low-budget indie feature film. Principal photography begins in 2 weeks. Here are my results compiled in a 1:32 sec. clip (not scientific in any means) . But it's fun to watch the different looks designed by Tim, Paulo and Stephen.

http://www.georgedavidfilms.com/download.html

Excellent! This looks great and is very interesting.

George,

Great looking images. I've had buyer's remorse many times, but this may be the first time I've had seller's remorse. Yes, sometimes I wonder if I did the right when I sold my HD100 and 3.3x13 lens. Yes, pangs of seller's remorse thanks to your great pictures and the "friends of the HD100" who provided the awesome scene files.

Well, hopefully my new XDCAM HD will alleviate those pangs a bit when it arrives and I can fire it up.

Tip McPartland

Thanks a bunch, that stuff looks great! What framerate was it shot in?

Looks nice, but I have never gotten why people feel the need to put music and fancy editing into simple camera tests. I'm a utilitarian kinda guy I guess. That, and I would have rather seen the different scene files as applied to the same shot back to back for better comparison.

Looks great, I like the "Day for night" scenes. The little city is nice too.

Thanks for looking, guys. I really appreciate the kind comments.

"...new XDCAM HD will alleviate those pangs a bit"

Tim, that's the camera that I was going to use for the film but the local rental company has that booked for a while - the FPW series is in a whole different league. I'm very jealous :-)

"What framerate was it shot in?"

Burk, that was shot in 24p 720p.

"...feel the need to put music and fancy editing ..."

Stephan - I hate to admit this but for me, it's because I always feel my work is inadequate and not good enough. Adding music, a little editing and others make up for the shaky footage, blown shots, etc. The same way goes even when just doing tests. We'll be doing rehearsals this weekend and I'll set up a more scientific approach to testing the different scene files with real actors this time. Stay tuned :-)

Jordi and Jack - Thanks.

Cracking stuff fella.

George can you post the settings for your mellow yellow it looked great.

BTW its a beautiful place you live in.

Andy.

Nice footage and a good idea to put the scenes next to each other. Have you tried TC 3, I think it will be a bit better. Also, my name is spelled Paolo, not a biggie :)

Dave, thanks. I saw your post earlier about 25p having different results. I'll have to try during rehearsals this weekend.

Andy, mellow yellow is a variation of Tim Dashwood's Amelie setting. I turned up the detail a little bit, turned cinegamma on and shot it at 9DB at daylight to add a little noise and a few minor color tweaks (an .03 ND filter in the mattebox). But I'll get the settings to you later tonight.

Paolo, I sincerely apologize about the spelling. I should know how to spell your name as I'm a big fan of 2nd unit. This weekend, I'll have even more fun playing with the different settings while filming real actors. TC3 instead of TC2, huh? Let me ask you this - how were you able to improve on perfection? (Sorry I'm a natural politician)!!! :-)

Nice...

BTW: What's the tag line for your movie?

Very gorgeous, film-like shots, especially Tim's color reversal. How was that moon shot done?

Hey George, no biggie, glad that you like 2nd Unit, we have a great episode coming for the season finale, hopefully released this friday. TC is no perfect, just trying my best, glad that you liked it. The footage looks great and I like the atmosphere given by the music. What is the video about?

Thanks, Stephen. Here's the log line of episode 1 which is entitled "Stained":

A beautiful but delusional 19 year old American girl with a very tragic past must face the root cause of her family's death to satisfy the demands of her loving but overzealous French psychiatrist.

Thanks, Xavier. If I remember correctly, the moon shot was done with ND filter at either 1 or 2 and Fstop was around f11 and focus was set to infinity. TC2 was scene file used. Zoom was close to full , but I wanted to avoid CA so it was probably around 75mm. I then sped it up 8x in post. You're right, I love the color reversal look.

Paolo, 2nd unit has been awesome and helpful. I learned so much from you, Jonathan and the rest of the crew.

My feature film is "The Twilight Zone" meets "Identity". Different stories to reveal clues to what happened to our flawed and beautiful heroine.

Very nice George. I appreciate the comparisons. BTW, I love that guy's music. Does he have sound tracks available or is it borrowed for demo purposes?

Thanks, Warren. I hope I don't get in trouble for this as Thomas Newman is one of the most famous composers and one of my idols in film scoring. But since it's for non-commercial use, I used his music. This piece is from American Beauty.

Those Newmans are a talented bunch. Wouldn't you just love to have him score your piece?

Now that would be just unbelievable, wouldn't it? Even if I could just meet and shake the guy's hand, that would already be more than I could hope for.

If you ever need film music that is Thomas Newman-like, let me know. I'm actually a film composer as well. I just need to re-record lots of my compositions to acceptable standards :-) After my feature is done, I think I'm going to concentrate on film music.

Warren - BTW, Glenn Scott Lacey works a lot with Steven Dempsey (Disjecta from DVXuser), one of our resident expert cinematographers here in DVinfo. Glenn has incredible skills and is an amazing composer:

http://www.glennscottlacey.com/

But since it's for non-commercial use, I used his music.
Not trying to be a party-pooper, but that's still a copyright violation. We have to keep in mind a lot of amateur filmmakers read this site, and we don't want to be giving out misinformation.

Fair enough, Earl. Shoot - I definitely don't want to break any copyright laws. I'll take that file off the server temporarily and add a longer and better test footage I'll be shooting this weekend. Underscore wil change too :-)

Fair enough, Earl. Shoot - I definitely don't want to break any copyright laws. I'll take that file off the server temporarily and add a longer and better test footage I'll be shooting this weekend. Underscore wil change too :-)
Hi George.

I just checked it out and it looked good. If you're re-editing, may I suggest more back-to-back comparison for those interested in the different scene files. You did it a couple of times with the close-up of the lady, and it is really helpful for new users to visualize what can be done with the image controls.

Sounds good, Tim. I will do that on the next edit. I'll include close-ups, medium, wide shots of people, landscapes, props, etc. I'm excited to do tests.

Thanks for that info, George. I'll look forward to your next set of tests and I'd love to hear some of your compositions. Meanwhile I'll check out Glenn as well.

Warren

Thanks for that info, George. I'll look forward to your next set of tests and I'd love to hear some of your compositions. Meanwhile I'll check out Glenn as well.

Warren


Yes, real nice work George. It's great to see the back to back to back comparasions of the diferent looks. Perhaps put as many of the looks as possible on the reel? It is very helpful -

john
evilgeniusentertainment.com

Warren, I'll use my own music next time for the tests.

John, I will definitely include different looks for each scene one right after the other. It would be blast to do this. Thanks for watching the clip.

George,

First off I liked the music with the edits, you entertain as well as educated, copywrite aside. Bravo! I could absolutly rant at how our society has gotten so sensitive to copy write when it's not for profit, not for marketing or even self promotion. Please don't stop putting your tests to music / edits if thats what makes you feel better about your testing, or simply if it's what makes you happy... regardless of what colleagues or peers might say. I personaly enjoyed it. If you must use your own music creations to appeal to the masses then all the better. ;) This is strictly my opinion (obviously), I'm not speaking out of disrespect for any member of this forum.

Second, thank you for doing that. It was an unselfish act that others, including myself, benefit from. I have often wished I had the time (not to mention energy) to do what you did. You strike me as the kind of person who deserves to be successful at what you do, you obviously take great pleasure from what you create. Excellent imagery, I was dumbfounded at how you made even simple shots sing with the JVC. Again, thanks.

Peace!

Daniel, that was a very nice comment you made. Just so you know, I've always liked that little comment/signature you have at the end of your posts. Thank you.

Hi George, I come from a musical background myself and also like to get more involved with film scoring - I'd be interested to know how you yourself create music i.e. what systems you use etc Probably best not to swamp this thread with such information so if you get the opportunity to mail me (or I'll mail you) I'd be most grateful.
Also, let me know how you get on with the 25p scene files...I'm relatively certain there will be a difference.

Good post Daniel btw

David and George,
While you're at it, I'd love to have contact info with all you guys doing music. I wonder if there could be a composers section.

David, please email me @ georgecdavid@qwest.net and we can discuss music further.

To answer your question that may be helpful to other musicians, in the PC platform I use Sony Vegas and Sony Acid to create and mix music. Brian Transeau (Fast and the Furious, Stealth, Monster) uses the same apps as well. I use VST plug-ins with Sony Acid and it's just amazing what you can do with it. Sony Vegas' marker/beat feature is cool for composers as you can create beat markers to sync music like you wouldn't believe.

In the Mac platform, I use Logic. It's great as well but not as intuitive as Acid. I use a Yamaha Motif ES, Yamaha C5 and a Kawai CA1000 for composing. I'm a total gearfreak and a nerd :-)

Warren, that's an awesome idea to create a forum dedicated to film composers. Let's send an email request to Chris Hurd and see what he says.

About time someone suggested the idea. I'm also a musician and sharing how we go about composing for visuals would be beneficial to all us to . Let's all share are methods and approach. I use Protools HD, Roland V-synth, Akai 4000, Liquid Instruments.

Thanks George - I'll send a mail over to you this weekend.

I'm ridding myself of the PC - I never found it to be 'harmonic' with making music - it crashes on a fairly regular basis when using Cubase et al. I have/had some hardware all connected via midi all piped out to a mixing desk. I'm waving goodbye to this set up however and migrating to the mac world (and will be using Logic Pro 7 as it happens). I believe this will give me much more freedom than before (space is tight at home for a start, plus with an iMac I pretty much have the portability factor to take advantage of)....but perhaps this thread is going a little off topic now! I'll mail you fella.
Many thanks.
dave

Have sent you a mail George.

Back to the footage here - wondering what format you shot in for the speeded up segment? And where all of the scenes shot in 24p (HDV I assume)?
Also, did you get the opportunity to try the scene files in 25p fella?
Many thanks.
Dave.

George i'm pretty new and have posted and commented probably about four times.... That piece was about the most creative thing i've come across on DVi (I'm not patronizing you)

I have a hd100 and have enjoyed Paolo's and Tim's scene files they bring the camera to life.I think the coolest thing was the idea to actually show the scene files in such an applicable way. Adding the music and all, it was like selling somebody a Ferrari and then taking them to the track and showing them how to drive it, when they other wise probably wouldn't have had the skill to enjoy really driving it or would have died inthe process of really learning how to finesse the thing!

Totally inspired me! Thanks to Paulo, who personally emailed me back when i was a total novice with my hd100! I asked him the (seemingly stupidest questions! (now in hind sight!) Now that i realize who he is I really appreciate his email! Thanks to Tim ( and others i haven't had the pleasure of running into yet)also for the selflessness and hard work so all of don't have to work so hard to pull our hair out!

Sorry for the novel, that peice really inspired me though.

The video with the various scene files was excellent. It was a great idea to showcase the various real world applications of them. Great job.

Still wondering the best way to achieve the sped up motion? Understand I would use 50p for slow mo, but is there a requirement to change anything for sped up motion (other than creating this in post)?

Cheers.

Still wondering the best way to achieve the sped up motion? Understand I would use 50p for slow mo, but is there a requirement to change anything for sped up motion (other than creating this in post)?

Cheers.
There is no other way to achieve sped up footage with the HD-100 than doing it in your NLE. It's OK though because your NLE will cut frames to speed up your video which does not have ill effect on the footage (motion wise). You want to select a speed up value that is divisible by the actual framerate to ensure that only frames get cut and there are no interpolated frames created by your NLE.

Thanks Stephen - whereas you would use 50p on slow mo, well, where's the 12.5p for fast motion I thought!
I haven't had chance to use FCP yet (thanks to apple's 'speedy' shipping!) but I will try one or two techniques as soon as recieve the kit.
I'm guessing with 25p I should be looking at something like 75% (for example). The night shots (where it quickly gets dark as per George's footage) I would presume to speed up by something far greater?
I'll do a search on this forum as I bet this has been covered before (and I don't want to go off topic here).

Many thanks.
Dave.

There is no other way to achieve sped up footage with the HD-100 than doing it in your NLE.
If you know you will be undercranking, you should lower your shutterspeed for the proper motion blur effect.

For example, if undercranking for 12fps (200% speedup from 24fps), set the shutter speed to 1/24th.
If undercranking to 6fps (400% speedup from 24fps) set the shutter speed to 1/12th.

David, thanks for the email. I tested 25p very briefly and I'll play around with that some more as I have more time.

Jamon, that was too kind of you. I don't even know what to say about that but thanks. I just had fun playing around with the settings designed by these guys who are 50x more knowledgeable than me.

Stephen is right about speeding that up in post. That was 8x normal speed. As far as the super fast transition from day to night, I just crossfaded two different clips together.

Tim, thanks for the shutter speed setting tip. I'll definitely remember that :-)

Here's more testing that I've done (nothing fancy). I wish I had more time adding clips of real actors and stuff. But I'm just too swamped right now preparing for this little film. I really love the Bleach bypass setting especially underexposed. I may do the whole movie that way to get that Tim Burton feel.

Please right-click and save.
http://www.georgedavidfilms.com/samples/morescenefiletest.wmv

Interesting...
Tim - where did you get these figures from (and I'm certainly not by a vast stretch of the imagination debating these - more I'd like to know how to work them out):

...if undercranking for 12fps (200% speedup from 24fps.

I've found the shutter speed on this camera to become almost strobe like as soon as it's switched past 1/25th.
The 'classic' day quickly switching to night with the automobiles car light trails - is there a number for this eg at 25fps should I be looking at around 6.25fps (400%)?
Also - there are often pans in these shots - you have to be slow enough with progressive anyhow - how would you achieve a pan that could feasibly take 15 mins (thereabouts)???

Oh and thanks again George. Now downloading your latest footage fella.

As far as the super fast transition from day to night, I just crossfaded two different clips together.


Spotted it. I actually thought you had the day into dusk scene over the sped up footage, which looking back you didn't - it was the later scene.

Ha ha - the pans!!! 2 words - Sony Vegas :-) The 'Event Pan/Crop' is a secret weapon. You can make fake dolly shots in post with this tool.

OK - so these are usually not/never genuine pans then? Merely cropped footage in a 'pan and scan' style in a 16:9 frame? Well I never!
Will FCP allow me to cheat...I mean carry out these 'pans'?

I saw the Dolly shots on the anit-war video posted by Miltos Pilalitos. Looked great though.

Oh yes, FCP can do that by using keyframing. So I guess it's not really Vegas' secret weapon but keyframing is just part of an editor's arsenal. But using dolly's, jibs or a great tripod is even better.

Hi George,

great idea, really appreciate it, is it me or does TC2 and Panamatch look quite similar?

Also, it seems you lean towards TC2 and not TC3, as all your avi comparo demonstrates, is there a reason for this?

Cheers

Adam

Adam - you are right. Panamatch and TC look very similar when encoded to wmv. They look a little different in the NLE though.

Indoors, you can easily tell the difference between panamatch (that DVX saturated look) and TC.

I use TC2 because it's what I've been using for several months and I really like it. I also had TC3 but with my untrained eye I just couldn't tell the difference. So I made room for Tim's film noir instead in the SD card.

Again, I just don't know how Paolo could improve on perfection - ha ha.