http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Canon-HV10-Camcorder-Review.htm

Bottom line:

- Overall better than the Sonys HDR-HC1 & HC3
- Under well lit scenarios image quality almost just as good as the XL H1
- Scarily bad low-light performance
- Really bad audio performance
- Limited dynamic range because of just one imaging device (vs. 3CCD designs)
- ...and, of course positively no control over almost anything

Basically, just a great point & shoot! No more, no less.

" Basically, just a great point & shoot! No more, no less. " -

True. I got mine today. I'm going to watch some footage on my projector tonite. For the kind of stuff I shoot ( hanging on the side of big walls ) this cam is about perfect!!

You really pay for that image detail in poor low light. That's too bad. I'm curious of the difference between the dynamic range of the Canon and Sony consumer HDV camcorders.

I'm wondering why the reviewer didn't talk about one of the key benefits to this camera. An affordable Canon codec 24f/30f plus 4 channel audio deck for owners of Canon H1s, A1s and G1s.

Bottom line: Overall better than the Sonys HDR-HC1 & HC3Under the Comparison section of the review:

"If you just look at the HC3 and the HV10 in a context of point and shoot users, we’re going to have to pick the Sony by a slight edge. At the end of the day, Sony is easier to use, and is going to be better at shooting video in a variety (read: low light) of conditions. However, if you are a point and shoot user who wants portability the HV10 is a much better choice. "

HC1: "This is the only comparison that is easy here. While the video performance in full light of the HV10 beats out the HC1 slightly, in all the other categories of control and external options we like the HC1."

Thanks John... I was just about to point that out myself.

Bottom line: it's easy to quote things out of context in order to support whatever position you favor.

Thanks John... I was just about to point that out myself.

Bottom line: it's easy to quote things out of context in order to support whatever position you favor.Just wanted to make it clear I really do not support Canon or Sony nor one specific view or the other. The bottom line is that it seems clear that under good lighting conditions the HV10 has an edge over the Sonys while overall, these may have better usability. Like I said, the HV10 is a great point and shoot. No more, no less and surely has its many virtues as well as some flaws.

As somebody who owns a HC1 I can tell you that in good light the HV10 has a lot more than a slight edge in terms of quality. What what I have seen the HV10 blows away the HC1 with no problem at all.

I have no opinion on low light but one point I do have to stress if for you people to please use a darn light when you shoot with these little cameras. I do not care if you are using a 2/3" camera, you still need light for a decent picture. While the HC3 may have a slight edge in low light I would never think of using it like that without a light. The Canon may not be as sensitive but I think that has to do with wanting overall higher quality.

As somebody who owns a SONY and does not own a Canon clearly I am not biased.

The other thing I love about that article is how they mentioned that DV was 4:2:2. These articles are getting very sloppy with the facts.

Right on Thomas, good points! Thanks for the feedback :)

The other thing I love about that article is how they mentioned that DV was 4:2:2. These articles are getting very sloppy with the facts.

An HDV MPEG stream's 4:2:0 color space contains two times the information than a DV 4:1:1 or 4:2:0 stream. So HDV has more than enough information to create a 4:2:2 color space for DV.

So maybe he is confusing this ability of HDV to generate 4:2:2 with plain-old-not-converted-from-HDV-DV ??

How unbelievably disappointing... bah-humbug.

With crappy audio, what's the point of great video?

I think both Canon and Sony have lobotomized their low end HD cams.

No thanks Canon and Sony
JohnG

John, sounds like you're more in the market for a professional camera. These are consumer cameras at a consumer price point. You'll pay a lot more to get XLR, custom image controls, and other advanced features. Nothing unusual about that; standard product line structuring for all kinds of things. Choose the camera that best suits your needs rather than bah-humbugging those that don't.

Right Pete, This is not a pro cam, and yet I am looking forward to it's pro applications. As a deck, and to be the cam used to be put in harms way,
Under water (where sound is not important), on a helmet, behind a waterfall, rafting, etc.
Different tools for different applications.
Of course it would be nice to have a $1,200, cam that did everything, for that matter, I wish the A1 did over/under cranking
Chris

How unbelievably disappointing... bah-humbug.

With crappy audio, what's the point of great video?

I think both Canon and Sony have lobotomized their low end HD cams.

No thanks Canon and Sony
JohnG

The audio is just as good as any other tiny handheld consumer camera. I suggest if you want high end features you pull out your wallet, dust off the cobwebs and buy a professional camera.

The fact is that most consumers will never in their entire lives owning this camera have a need to hook up a microphone or even listen with headphones. They bring it to their son's baseball game record that game and go home a watch the video. I bought a HC1 for our 5 week vacation in South Afrcia. It has a mic jack and headphone jack but guess what. In the 5 weeks that we were in South Africa and 1 week in London I never had any desire at all to hook up a mic or use headphones.

I shot 6 hours worth of HDV while on vacation and I couldn't be happier having HD footage of my vacation.

You people are really making too big of a deal about these cameras. You think just because it is HDV that it should have all of the great features of any high level HDV camera. The fact that a camera is DV or HDV or digital 8 or S-VHS doesn't mean squat in terms of what it can do. This is a consumer camera made for point and shoot and thats it, end of story. If you want to use a consumer camera for professional use well then thats your problem. That isn't the fault of Canon, SONY or anybody else.

I agree. I'll have more to say about my HV10 after I shoot some test video in Yosemite this weekend. For action sports like rock climbing, this thing can't be beat. The only audio I need from the HV10 is ambient sound and the camera person's narration. I will velcro a patch of acoustical fur over the built in mic to improve sound and cut wind noise and call it good.

I just sold my 2 year old GL2 that only had about 10 hours on the heads because I need something small like this. It is what it is. Much as I'd love all the manual controls and jacks, I'd like to see you guys shoot video while leading A4 on the side of El Capitan with a GL2 sized cam strapped to your harness. That's where my HV10 is going - and it's going to be revolutionary as far as I'm concerned!!

If you want to use a consumer camera for professional use well then thats your problem.

I personally don't think there is anything wrong with trying to squeeze professional results out of consumer camcorders. I've been doing it for years with my Digital8 camcorder (sigh). Not professional use, but professional results. I don't shoot video to make money but I want my images to look the best they possibly can for the little bit of money I do spend.

I think most people talking about these low priced HDV cameras are really doing just that, trying to get the best results out of them for their own personal use.

The real problem is that Canon has stuck a sensor in this very inexpensive camcorder that takes amazing pictures. That's the problem! :) But that's a good problem.

There's nothing wrong with trying to squeeze professional results out of consumer camcorders, as long as you know what you've got to begin with. The point Thomas is making is an entirely separate issue, which is that of unrealistic expectations. It's akin to taking a Volkswagen Beetle off-road, and complaining when it gets stuck in the mud. "This thing doesn't have four wheel drive!" Well, of course it doesn't, that's not what it was meant for. It's pretty much the same thing with these consumer camcorders.

There's nothing wrong with trying to squeeze professional results out of consumer camcorders, but it's foolish to expect to get professional results from them. See the difference there?

I've taken Volkswagen Beetles all over the American South Western desert with few problems. The engine weight over the back wheels and the feather light front end are often times just as good as 4 wheel drive. By the way, if you check my IP address, I currently cruise the Sahara Desert in Egypt in my Jeep Grand Cherokee.

There's a special "stock beetle" class that runs the Baja 1000 each year too. They are about the toughest guys you'll ever meet... and perhaps the craziest.

Ack... okay let's make it a Ford Focus then. Sorry,

Chris! Have you seen Rally racing? The Focus is unstoppable! ;)

But can a stock one go muddin'? I think not!

;-)

Oh no, not another "Ford vs. Chevy" discussion! ;-)

I will velcro a patch of acoustical fur over the built in mic to improve sound and cut wind noise and call it good.

I would be very carefull with that. From the reports of the amount of heat that builds up at those mic holes, it is apparent that not only is it and oddly placed mic, but the main vent of this extreemly condensed cam.

But can a stock one go muddin'? I think not!

;-)

"I reject your reality and substitute my own."

http://www.vasher.com/junk/focus.jpg

" I would be very carefull with that. From the reports of the amount of heat that builds up at those mic holes, it is apparent that not only is it and oddly placed mic, but the main vent of this extreemly condensed cam. " -

I'll use it a bit this weekend and see if it gets too hot. I didn't have any problem doing this with my Optura 100mc's.

I haven't tried this with the Canon but every HDV camcorder I've played with does run extremely HOT. We've had a Z1 shutdown by being in the local sun inside a Portabrace cover.

"I reject your reality and substitute my own."

http://www.vasher.com/junk/focus.jpg


And I reject yours and subsitute my own.

click>> http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/3823/focushv10rw8.jpg

That's not real! That bridge is not there! HA!

You made me laugh out loud for real Lee, hilarious.

"That's not real! That bridge is not there! HA!

You made me laugh out loud for real Lee, hilarious."


:)

John, sounds like you're more in the market for a professional camera. These are consumer cameras at a consumer price point. You'll pay a lot more to get XLR, custom image controls, and other advanced features. Nothing unusual about that; standard product line structuring for all kinds of things. Choose the camera that best suits your needs rather than bah-humbugging those that don't.

Pete

I'm really looking for a 'decent' HD mini-cam. Something along the lines of the HC1. It's a real shame that Sony is no longer making that model and their current model (HC3) has been lobotomized. This new Canon looks like it has fantastic video but without some sort of external audio input I'm just not interested. I.e. These cheesy internal mikes are absolutely horrible.............. I'm surprised they just don't connect the mike directly to the transport motor. They might as well considering how much transport noise they pic up. grrrrrrrrr. I think the review sum'd up the audio issue quite well. If enough people 'just say no' perhaps Sony, Canon, etc. will put a hot shoe or mike input on these cams. And no, I don't expect xlr inputs on a $1500 cam. :)

I suspect the Sony HVR-A1 is still the only HD mini-cam that has good features. It does seem a bit 'long in the tooth though'. ;)

JohnG

If you would like to use this in situations where sound is critical or even just important, you could buy yourself a dedicated audio recorder and sync it in post.

?

The HV10 seems to have much less motor noise than other small Canon handhelds. Listen to the silent parts of some clips, posted in my sample clips,
eg http://media.dvinfo.net/canonxh/cgHV10_eveInside_ChineseCharm.mpg

Will the XH A1/G1 be too big of a minicam? They seem like the pro sweet spot...
but indeed, this one was almost too small for the great quality it has.

indeed the mic cover, and also the tripod mount, seem to get very hot. Nice metal heatsinks? Hope you have a metal tripod mount to conduct heat away :)

Here's a question. I've never done this but it seems like a reasonable way to do it. Record sound with an external device (flash based media would be nice). If you import the video and seperate audio could you sync up the external audio to the internal-mic audio by looking at the waveform in the editor. This way one wouldn't need to use a clapper or something. You'd still need to keep track of how long you were recording.

Edit - Nevermind... Reading the manual, only one AV In/Out, so probably not a good idea.

The camera has AV In through a special minijack. I do NOT expect this to work, but has anyone tried hooking a mic up with a RCA - minijack Y to a minijacked mic through the AV cable? You never know. I don't expect it to work, but wierder things have happened.

Edit - Nevermind... Reading the manual, only one AV In/Out, so probably not a good idea.

The camera has AV In through a special minijack. I do NOT expect this to work, but has anyone tried hooking a mic up with a RCA - minijack Y to a minijacked mic through the AV cable? You never know. I don't expect it to work, but wierder things have happened.

I was thinking exactly the same thing... Can someone try it out?

I get my own HV10 next week... (...so I can make my own FX1 and PD150 comparison tests! :)

Sorry but that will not work... the AV jack is an *output* when the HV10 is in camcorder mode. Not an input.

Why don't they include a mic/light shoe on the top and a remote mic input socket? Does it really add so much to the build cost? This may be "just a consumer camera", but it's the top-of-the-range and not cheap in any objective sense! So what if 80% of it's purchasers don't use external mics? Enough people do, and maybe Canon would sell more if it had them. When they bring out a range of three or four variants they can start messing around with the bits and pieces, but whilst this is the only one, it should have everything the amateur movie-maker needs: external mic, headphone socket, LANC...

I'm willing to bet a slightly higher spec version with mic input will come out next- it's only natural and the next progression for these "consumer" models.

We are using this camera simply as a POV, putting it in harms way, in crowdy situations, and locations where we don'twant to lug around a big camera. We don't expect it to emulate pro features, we simply use it as a beater camera and get amazing shots.

heres a quick workaround for anyone complaining about the lack of mic jack with this camera. There are some situations where we will want audio to sync up with this camera's footage, in such cases: buy a sony hi-md, get a wireless pack, sync is post, thats it!

If you were shooting with a A1 as your primary camera in 24F, would you be able to manipulate the images from the HV10 to match well enough to use with the primary footage? Not necessarily the same scene, but when you need a smaller cam, to avoid notice or damage.

I know it is still early to really tell, but best guess...

Thanks,
Jay

We are using this camera simply as a POV, putting it in harms way, in crowdy situations, and locations where we don'twant to lug around a big camera. We don't expect it to emulate pro features, we simply use it as a beater camera and get amazing shots.
In that situation, it sounds like an ideal camera. However, if you've only got one camera, the HV10 isn't quite good enough, which is such a shame. Why spoil the ship for a ha'p'worth of tar?
I'm willing to bet a slightly higher spec version with mic input will come out next- it's only natural and the next progression for these "consumer" models.
That would be sensible. Let's hope so. It won't hurt me to wait a few months...

Hello everybody from Italy,

I was quite ready to buy an HV10 last weekend but I taken it a little bit on standby.

I compared it to Sony HC3. From operation point of view and ergonomics Sony is much, much better. Only working on the HV10's zoom control you can move cam, that means you have to handle it always with both hands for a stable recording.
What I liked on HV10 was the LCD panel, brighter and accurate than Sony.
I don't want to go inside the technical features now ( 16/9 sensor, optical stabilizer, manual operation as pro for Canon, while low light performance are better for Sony ), but I'd like to know if someone of you made a test of same recording with both camcorder and playbacked it on HD panel using the component and HDMI connection.
My opinion and experience watching HD, is HDMI improve a lot image sharpening because of no conversion and higher signal transfer rate, so
p.se comment if Canon components can give same result.

Generally speaking my feeling is the best hasn't yet been made in compact HD camcorders. May be Panasonic will out a new model with 16/9 sensor and optical stabilizer like HV10, but in a body and with HDMI like HC3 ?

Funny, I was all gun-ho about getting an HV10 too- especially considering the fantastic image quality people are touting it to have.....but I just can't get over the mic input omission. Although 90% of my videos don't feature the recorded audio (replaced with music) I'm now finding the need to have a mic a necessary and vital option.
It's ashame as it seems to rival the FX1 in terms of image quality with a tiny form factor- but the mic omission is the deal killer for me.....

....I'm looking at the XH A1 or HVX200....I know it's quite a bit more money but my mind plays all kinds of games with me and I want the best I can afford to get....but if Canon had put a mic input on the HV10, I'd be using it NOW instead of typing about it!

Funny, I was all gun-ho about getting an HV10 too- especially considering the fantastic image quality people are touting it to have.....but I just can't get over the mic input omission. Although 90% of my videos don't feature the recorded audio (replaced with music) I'm now finding the need to have a mic a necessary and vital option.
It's ashame as it seems to rival the FX1 in terms of image quality with a tiny form factor- but the mic omission is the deal killer for me.....

I am in much the same position, probably 95% of my work does not require audio as it is usually incorporated into motion graphics and replaced with music - the issue of the lack of mic inputs means little to me but I can see how this would be useful (or necessary to others).

Why did they not drop the useless (to me at least) viewfinder and use the cost and space saved to implement a decent earphones/mic section ? Who would miss the viewfinder when the high resolution LCD screen is so sharp, bright and clear ? I suppose they probably must know their market and the average consumer won't mind the occasional sound of the operator of the camera breathing or eating his lunch (!?) - If I find myself in the position where I need better than decent sound I will drag along a dedicated audio recorder and a mic.

I suppose the real problem with this little camera is we have all seen the gorgeous, noiseless, colorful video quality and want to squeeze professional results out of something you can literally drop in your (coat) pocket. If the audio on this machine matched the picture quality it would have to be a £1500 digital recorder with a £800 pro microphone !

If the video quality on the HV10 was average or poor (more in line with its audio side) the only thing we would be complaining about is the price.

But I still think it is worth the trade off for the fantastic picture quality, that is why I went out yesterday on my bicycle and came home 30 minutes later with a red shiny box with a Canon log on it. :)

I can see the main problem most of you complain about HV10, is about bad audio and no possibility to connect any other alternative external source
( that really isn't so good ).

But noone speaks so much about miss of HDMI out.

I can guess that final quality result on HDTV playback through component out
from HV10 isn't so downgrade compared to Sony HC3 with HDMI.
Is it really so ?

Regards
ES

This is a consumer camera and has limited features to make sure pros will buy the pro cameras. Canon and Sony want you to spend $3k, $5k, and $9k to get pro features instead of giving you a solution for $1.2k (all USD).

If you want to use if for 'film', audio is captured on a different device anyway. Otherwise, they would include a clapper board in the package :P

Hi George,
yes I know Canon and Sony have models more expensive to meet pros expectation, so more complete features.
But I'm focusing on the point between difference of component and HDMI out.
Sony HC3 is cheaper than Canon HV10, but have HDMI.
Only I need to know if someone can tell me if movie quality of HV10 is at the same/worst/better level with component connection than HC3 with HDMI connection.

May be that better resolution in good light of HV10 gives a sharper image on HDTV than same recording with HC3 ?

Regards
ES