Rec'd from Douglas Spotted Eagle:

http://www.sundancemediagroup.com/media/para1.wmv

http://www.sundancemediagroup.com/media/para2.wmv

"These clips are 24p, processed as 60i, and output as 24p. In the process, some information was lost; no NLE currently supports 3:2 pulldown in HD resolution for HDV, so there was no option but to recompress these files and process as they are managed in order to watermark them."

The accompanying article is located at http://www.hdvinfo.net/articles/sony/firstlookv1u.php

Raw HDV in the form of an .M2T file, from VASST: http://www.sundancemediagroup.com/media/V1_24p_VASST2.m2t

This footage is killer. I dig the 24p look and it's always cool to see Spot's skydiving video (even if he's on the ground).

heath

Chris:

This video is 1280 x 720. Excuse my ingnorance, but is the actual footage considered 720p ? Or is it 1080 24p, if there is such a thing. (This P stuff is pretty new to Sony users.)

Edit: Oh, I reread the post, and I think I got it..

I believe it's 1080p24. The footage you're watching may have been down-converted to 1280x720. I'll take another look.

heath

That's looking really, really promising.

what is it that these clips are supposed to demonstrate? just the 24p effect?

they seem soft, but that may be due to scaling down to 720p or all the movement in the scene. are there any full 1080i/p versions to view?

1/4" chips...

1/4" chips...

Think you're going to be wrong about that. 3 CMOS is going to be different than 3CCD. I think softness is encoding to 180 x 720 and to .wmv-- saw some hdv footage of the V1e that was pretty stunning.

There is actually raw HDV footage from the camcorder available on the VASST site, but I'll wait til Chris links it.
The softness you see is due to the wmv encoding. These were clips created a few days ago for various people to compare detailing in the format and still forego bandwidth issues.
Boyd and others saw the original footage today projected on a 36' screen, and I'd guess they were impressed....it was unprocessed footage, just 24p with pulldown added, and I had about 1 minute of 60i mixed in there too, just to show what the 60i looked like at 180 mph.

Not a long wait! My second post in this thread, plus Spot's article on our site, is now updated with the link to his raw HDV clip in .M2T format just mentioned. For those not wanting to scroll up, that link is http://www.sundancemediagroup.com/media/V1_24p_VASST2.m2t

Absolutely.... there was nothing even slightly soft about that footage, it was remarkable. I kept bothering Michael Wisenski through the whole show as I exclaimed "I wish my Z1 could do that!"

Chris,

Can you put the "First Look at the V1u" you have at hdvinfo.net on the main page so it's easy to find?

Thanks,

heath

Yes, the video was remarkable. Not soft at all. One of the things that's hitting me now is how well the camcorder handles blow outs, I didn't notice any, meaning they didn't stand out like they normally do in normal video. And that's with Spot constantly panning directly into the sun.

Another clip to download:

http://www.vasst.com/resource.aspx?id=5f0e6287-0a9c-49a6-ab6a-7a9431fe3407

Keep in mind, there's no pulldown removal, hence a slight "ghosting" that I've seen in other footage from other HDV cameras without the removed pulldown.

heath

One thing is sure :)
With that picture posterized you can make a good logo for VASST:
http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/328/v1uparaglidedetailas6.png (http://imageshack.us)

Another clip to download:

http://www.vasst.com/resource.aspx?id=5f0e6287-0a9c-49a6-ab6a-7a9431fe3407

Keep in mind, there's no pulldown removal, hence a slight "ghosting" that I've seen in other footage from other HDV cameras without the removed pulldown.

heath

heath - what clip does this link refer to? when I clck it, all i get is a link ack to the original article and a field to submit comments.

There seems to be a lot of dithering in the VASST2 clip (mainly in the sky and parachute). I'm not really seeing why people are so taken by these camera's image quality yet - I feel the HV10 has a much clearer and detailed picture quality.

heath - what clip does this link refer to? when I clck it, all i get is a link ack to the original article and a field to submit comments.

I think you need to register with them to read the article and watch the videos.

Okay, of the three clips (including an .m2t, which had been recompressed) all have ghosted frames, with the justification that the NLE in use couldn't remove the 3:2 pulldown.

Fair enough, but there's no reason they couldn't have imported the clip into After Effects, then removed the pulldown there. Showing stuff with these sorts of artifacts does no justice to the camera's potential or the workflow. Even if the NLE software doesn't yet handle 3:2 removal, it's a trivial thing to do somewhere else.

Or, just give out a first generation .m2t and let people go at it.

Just my 2 cents...

Jim Arthurs

There seems to be a lot of dithering in the VASST2 clip (mainly in the sky and parachute). I'm not really seeing why people are so taken by these camera's image quality yet - I feel the HV10 has a much clearer and detailed picture quality.

That's what happens when you recompress HDV.

Okay, of the three clips (including an .m2t, which had been recompressed) all have ghosted frames, with the justification that the NLE in use couldn't remove the 3:2 pulldown.

Fair enough, but there's no reason they couldn't have imported the clip into After Effects, then removed the pulldown there. Showing stuff with these sorts of artifacts does no justice to the camera's potential or the workflow. Even if the NLE software doesn't yet handle 3:2 removal, it's a trivial thing to do somewhere else.

Or, just give out a first generation .m2t and let people go at it.

Just my 2 cents...

Jim Arthurs

1. After Effects can't remove the pulldown from HDV to my knowledge.
2. We'll never upload unwatermarked clips again. We did this with the Z1 footage two years ago, and next thing I knew, we were reading on more than one website how the owner of the website "had shot these images" himself. Moreover, these images are part of a fairly large film project that has legal implications were they to show up elsewhere.

I agree, they're not optimal given that they're recompressed and include pulldown. But they're still demonstrative of what the format can do. It's too bad we can't transport the entire community to the press conference, so you'll just have to take Michael and Boyd's word that it is stunning footage, even at 36' projected.

1. After Effects can't remove the pulldown from HDV to my knowledge.

Why not? AE isn't "hard-wired" to specific formats when it comes to 3:2 removal, like Vegas is. It doesn't need to see flagged frames. It will look for the "pattern" of the field order. If it guesses wrong, then manually choose from one of the other 3:2 pattern possibilities. Here's how, give it a go;

1.) bring clip into AE.
2.) Right click on the clip, Interpret Footage.
3.) Choose "separate fields, upper field first"
4.) Now click on "guess 3:2"
5.) Footage will be assigned a 3:2 pattern and report as 23.976)
6.) Put clip on timeline. Scrub. If you see any interlacing, go back to Interpret Footage and manually choose a different pattern. Srub again to check...

God bless Vegas, but since version 3 I've been feature requesting this more "universal" method of 3:2 removal, AND the same functionality when exporting as well. No reason you shouldn't be able to add 3:2 to an image squence, or an AVI or MOV of any flavor. But that's off-topic, however if it HAD that functionality, we wouldn't have this issue with this footage...

I understand your concern about rights and raw footage.

Regards,

Jim Arthurs

6.) Put clip on timeline. Scrub. If you see any interlacing, go back to Interpret Footage and manually choose a different pattern. Srub again to check...

Also must mention that the composition needs to be created at 23.976 FPS. It's possible AE 7.0 has the proper aspect ratios preset for HDV, but if not, simply make a 1920 by 1080 comp and stretch your clip on the timeline to fit. Make sure the / toggle for high quality is enabled.

Jim Arthurs

I think you need to register with them to read the article and watch the videos.

I did register. the only clip I saw was the one that Chris linked to previously above (the '...VASST2.m2t' one).

was there another?

I think you need to register with them to read the article and watch the videos.
Yes you do.

heath

After Effects can and will remove pull-down from an m2t, provided you can get it into After Effects in the first place (it depends on what codec you have). I've done it many times. The trick (as always) is what do you recompress it to for distribution once it's a true 24p file. The options are typically wmv and h.264 - but both are recompression. Ah the dilemmas!

Another easy way to get rid of the 3:2 pull-down is to import it via Cineform's HDLink, which does pull-down reversal on capture. Incidentally, this is one of the main reasons I bought AspectHD.

-Steve

Tried it in AE, must be doing something wrong because it looks terrible on output. I don't use AE much any longer.
Anyway, CineForm is working just fine, so I'll be reposting shortly.

Tried it in AE, must be doing something wrong because it looks terrible on output. I don't use AE much any longer.
Anyway, CineForm is working just fine, so I'll be reposting shortly.
Spot,

People need to be signed up for the clips, right?

heath

Yes, they have to sign in/register to the site to read the tutorials, download the clips, or view the images.

Guys and gals,

I highly recommend doing it. VASST has a lot of great free tutorials, including some cool ones on Final Cut Pro, DVD Studio Pro and Final Cut Studio that I wrote to help people get started. And their Vegas stuff is top-notch.

Okay, sorry for the plug. But check out the footage!

heath