Hi at the moment Im using 2 Sony pd170s to shoot weddings. Im thinking of getting a XL-h1 as I want to upgrade to HD. Do you think it will be suitable for weddings?

Remember, two smaller, lighter, cheaper Canon HD Cameras are on their way to the market right now. From having shot a movie on the XLH1, I can tell you lugging it around is no picnic, especially if you are used to the PD 150. I had to rent a heavy duty tripod b/c the H1 lens kept tipping over my Bogen. I advise at least waiting until the smaller units come out before taking the leap. I think, in general, buying a camera now is tricky, as the techological shift keeps leaning towards HD, yet the general consumer is (as always) slow to catch up.

Remember, two smaller, lighter, cheaper Canon HD Cameras are on their way to the market right now. From having shot a movie on the XLH1, I can tell you lugging it around is no picnic, especially if you are used to the PD 150. I had to rent a heavy duty tripod b/c the H1 lens kept tipping over my Bogen. I advise at least waiting until the smaller units come out before taking the leap. I think, in general, buying a camera now is tricky, as the techological shift keeps leaning towards HD, yet the general consumer is (as always) slow to catch up.


Thanks Brad

Thats a good point, those cameras do look interesting.

There are already smaller, lighter, cheaper HDV cams available from Sony. The big difference between the XLH1 and the others is ergonomics. The XLH1 is a shoulder mount cam. Personally I prefer the shoulder mount especially in run and gun type situations. My hands are on the controls where they belong. From my point of view the big drawback of the XLH1 for weddings is the price. If you need 2 (or even 3) cameras then it's unlikely you would go with XLH1s. Having said that I do weddings and I have gone with the XLH1.

The comment about the pros going for the HD and everyone else staying behind is very relevant in my opinion.

However, keep in mind that the XL H1 has great SD output, all the nice features of the XL2 IIRC...

-Derek

Doug hit the nail on the head. There's more than just resolution (which it has penty), yours is a question about useability and being able to adapt in changing, often unpredicatable environments. I use an XL1s and it's also forward heavy and similiar to handling as the H1, but can be managed with practice and the right shoulder rig (varizoom has a few good ones).

I've done a few weddings, for friends and family, but mostly corporate training stuff, and I'm constantly on the go.

I've tried smaller handycam sized units and I quickly missed the external manual controls. Even so, when the day's shoot was done, my sore shoulders were replaced with frustration. Many times I didn't get the shots I wanted due to a lack of these external controls.

You have to be in shape for the XL series. The weight also tames much of the shake you'd get from smaller/lighter cams. In the case of smaller cams, I would resort to weighing them down to get similiar performance, especially when following someone. I don't care how good the stabilization, if I didn't add a ten pound tripod and carry it that way, the image was simply unwatchable.

The other issue, though an unfair one, is in the looks department. The XL series of camera's command much attention and lend credit towards earning higher fees. I had this happen with an HC1 vs. XL1s. Only when I added a three point shoulder rig, a light, a shotgun mic and an 6" LCD did the HC1 command the same respect from a stripped down XL1s. In fact, when I had both camera's along for a shoot, and I pulled out the XL1s, I'd hear comments like: "Uh-Oh, he's getting serious.." (When in fact, the HC1 had 2.5x the resolution).

I thought long and hard about getting two Z1U's, but opted out for an H1 (can't wait for the approval). Yes it's a beast, but I can't afford to miss a good shoot, and if I have to continue on being a pack mule, then so be it. The client wouldn't bother with an excuse.

Stephen,

I have an H1 and don't consider myself a wedding shooter. In fact I was going out of my way to avoid it. I did shoot a family wedding a couple of weeks ago with the H1 and was simply blown away by the images.

I first battled stark, harsh lighting out in the mid afternoon sun. Then beautiful filtered light during photos, then went to +12db at times during the reception. The H1 shot so well in all conditions, I actually thought about shooting more weddings. I shot HDV and d/converted to SD and was still mighty impressed with the images.

As mentioned the 'pro look', the external controls, the OIS, the shoulder mount, HDV masters, native 16:9, etc., all lend themselves to a great wedding cam.

I guess it depends on your budget, but I think if you plan well and can shoot well, you can shoot a great wedding on a single cam. Or the new Canon HD's would make a great B-cam. Even at $1k per shoot, it doesn't take long to pay for a 10k cam that will take you years into the future.

As far as HD goes, the practical workflow for lower end (weddings) productions is still evolving. At this point, I wouldn't go HD if I was only thinking about shooting weddings. The HD masters though are good to have for when HD workflow streamlines. HD also means high debt.

In the meantime, for DVD viewing, the downconvert from HDV still provides awesome results.

`As mentioned the 'pro look', the external controls, the OIS, the shoulder mount, HDV masters, native 16:9, etc., all lend themselves to a great wedding cam. `


Thanks for all your replies.

I agree the look of the camera helps in projecting a `pro` image!

I think I will aim to get the H1 as the main camera and one of the smaller cameras as a secondary cam when available in November.

PS Wish I registered as Steve Vallis, I feel that I am being told off by my mum when you reply!

I tested an XL-H1 and wasn't impressed with it for event videography purposes, partly because of its awkward front-heavy design and for other reasons including the high price. The XH-A1 and XH-G1 sound more promising to me and show that Canon has figured out some of the shortcomings of their GL1/GL2 series, like lack of XLR inputs. I'd recommend waiting until those models are shipping in a few weeks before making a purchasing decision for an HD camera.

Kevin I hate to appear ungrateful I realize that you did those tests for no reward, but the clips you have posted and the conclusions you draw are not very useful.

Remember, two smaller, lighter, cheaper Canon HD Cameras are on their way to the market right now. From having shot a movie on the XLH1, I can tell you lugging it around is no picnic, especially if you are used to the PD 150. I had to rent a heavy duty tripod b/c the H1 lens kept tipping over my Bogen. I advise at least waiting until the smaller units come out before taking the leap. I think, in general, buying a camera now is tricky, as the techological shift keeps leaning towards HD, yet the general consumer is (as always) slow to catch up.

What he said...

BUT...
if ur shooting weddings with a H1, u may as well get an EF adapter with a couple of prime lenses... take advantage of the fact that you can use otehr lenses and u wotn be wasting ur money.. BUT a cheaper option... for tape acquisiton is the A1...

fr me now, its how useful i can make teh H1 to take advantage of all its featurs, as i certainly dont need SDI...

I was thinkin about the HVX as it offers true slowmotion, but P2 is really slow at coming out and for longform.. p2, just doesnt cut it..

Pete nailed it. The XLH1 is not ideal for weddings because you are paying for some features you don't necessarily need. But as most XLH1 owners would tell you under $40K the XLH1 is the best camera for wedding video on the market. Nothing under $10K even comes close.

Kevin I hate to appear ungrateful I realize that you did those tests for no reward, but the clips you have posted and the conclusions you draw are not very useful.

If you're referring to my camera comparion web page, I never got around to posting a detailed summary of my conclusions. The main thing I learned from testing several cameras is that differences in the way the cameras handle and operate may be as important in choosing between them as differences in image quality, at least for cameras in the same technological class (e.g. HD or SD).

As far as the XL-H1 in particular is concerned, I found it to be impractical to hand hold for any useful length of time, and I don't like the lack of a proper LCD panel. Factor in the steep price and I can't see recommending this camera for shooting weddings, especially now that the smaller and less expensive Canons are about to ship. I also found the XL-H1 image to be much grainier than Sony HDV in dim lighting, but it's debatable which is more useful in that context. Once the Canon XL-A1 and Sony V1U are both shipping we'll see which one is favored more by event videographers; either one should be fine when used properly with respect for each camera's unique characteristics.

used it for a wedding this past year.

i think it's a GREAT cam for anything really... but the captures are nice. and it is damned heavy!!! make sure you are in shape for this so image won't shake.

used it for a wedding this past year.

i think it's a GREAT cam for anything really... but the captures are nice. and it is damned heavy!!! make sure you are in shape for this so image won't shake.

I agree it is heavy but I find it harder to use "handycam" shaped cameras even if they are lighter. Even thought it is heavy I have found that to eliminate shake. More mass equals more stable.

I have found myself getting equally tired holding a DVX100 or VX2000 out in front of me. It is a different muscle group that fatigues but it still happens.

IMHO.

I use both the XL1S and XL2 to shoot weddings all year. I'm considering bumping up to the H1 because I want HD and because I have a whole case of batteries, chargers, lights and other accessories that I can still use. Even if the H1 wasn't the best choice, I have so much invested accessories that it would be foolish to buy something else. The ‘ooh and ahh’ factor is always powerful with the XL line.

A little advice for those that have a problem with the weight, I use the Manfrotto 557B Pro Video Monopod on both of my XL's and it is the best thing ever. I can move anywhere in a split second and when I get to where I need to be, I'm as steady as a tripod. An added benefit, when the audience in the chapel stands when the bride comes down the aisle or when the happy couple is dancing in the middle of a sea of people on the dance floor, I can raise the camera four feet or more in the air and I get the shot. I’ve had to edit tape of other camera operators and it amazes me at how many operators get burned by those little problems.

Now, by being stuck in the XL line, from a practical perspective, what am I missing out on from other manufactures when I do get the H1? I also shoot a lot of green screen stuff for industrial videos. How will the H1 help me those settings?

Having worked in television news for 40 years, I can tell you the 'weight' issue of the Canon HD-1 is non-existent. I use it for television news, and for us, it is one of the lightest cameras on the market for its power and features.

Most professional television news cameras are far heavier and yet most in the business seldom complain about the weight.

As to the 'forward heavy' portion of the thread, it is easily correctable. I use two wireless mikes on the rear and it balances perfectly.

Having the camera on my shoulder, as many have pointed out, provides a steadier picture and far greater access to all controls than using other non-shoulder mount cameras.

The camera is so light, most in TV news can hand-hold it all day and never be tired.

Like others, my only issue is with the viewfinder. I'm hoping they come out with a better quality for professional users.

It's a great camera for the money and if I were a wedding photographer, I'd snap it up in a minute.

I use H1 as first camera, other two are Sony FX1, and A1, shooting weddings if client wants HDV format, othervise I use DVX100, H1 has a great stability handheld, greatly balanced camera, can't wait for wide angle HD lens, it will be unbeatable at this point for shooting weddings...

The issue of Canon cameras being heavy is such an old argument and goes way back to the days of the XL1 and VX1000. Back then there were huge debates all over the place about shoulder cameras vs handheld cameras.

It all comes down to two schools of thought on the subject. There are those who feel you can only shoot a good wedding with a handheld camera. Then there are those who feel you can only do a decent job with a shoulder mounted camera.

There are hundreds of people all over the world that have made a great success at shooting weddings with the Canon XL1 series of cameras. I for one was one of the first people to have a XL1 and I have used it for hundreds of weddings and other types of live shoots.

If the camera is off of a support system such as a tripod the Canon H1 may be heavy but how good is your shooting holding a handheld camera for 10 to 20 minutes anyways? Can you really it sturdy the whole time? There really are pros and cons to each style of camera and there is no perfect answer or opinion on the subject. Shoulder mounted cameras can have a small learning curve but when you do learn how to shoot with them in the proper way you can get very good results. That is why a lot of high end wedding videographers and most broadcasters use the huge shoulder mounted cameras. It isn't just because they are 1/2" and 2/3" cameras but they feel the form factor can give them much better results in a live environment. Handheld does have advantages as well such as quick movements and extreme angles. With carefull practice you can get almost the same results with a bigger camera but you have to put a little effort and muscle behind it. I have held a 25 pound camera above my head with one arm as a second camera during a Hora during the entire dance and while it took more muscle it can be done. I am far from a strong person and do not work out at all but I just put a lot of heart and effort into a shoot and it doesn't bother me.

And im very happy :)


Its a great wedding camera, much easier to use in the field than the Sony PD170`s

And im very happy :)


Its a great wedding camera, much easier to use in the field than the Sony PD170`s


Congratulations Stephen, you will love it!

Mike

I am a big fan of this camera but I did a wedding this weekend and I got caught in a situation where I could not get time to get back on the tripod for a long speech. Damn my arm hurts really bad today! The shots were ultimately pretty good with just a little wiggle when I tried to change positions as my arm was tiring.

The sad part was my tripod was just a few feet away but there was never enough of a break in the action to put the camera on the tripod! That was the longest 25 minutes of my arms life!

:)

I am a big fan of this camera but I did a wedding this weekend and I got caught in a situation where I could not get time to get back on the tripod for a long speech. Damn my arm hurts really bad today! The shots were ultimately pretty good with just a little wiggle when I tried to change positions as my arm was tiring.

The sad part was my tripod was just a few feet away but there was never enough of a break in the action to put the camera on the tripod! That was the longest 25 minutes of my arms life!

:)


Been there. That's where you need those good cut-a-way crowd shots!

Mike

Been there. That's where you need those good cut-a-way crowd shots!

Mike


Unfortunately this was a rare occurrence where I shot the reception with only one camera. I usually work with another person and we coordinate moving and angle changes so that there is always a "usable" shot. When you are by yourself you have to play it safer and not be as creative. But sometimes you have to do what the client wants. This particualr one did not want to pay for the 2nd camera. So they get a less creative product in the end as I have to be overly safe on everything I shoot.

I used a mono pod when filming last week, It made life a lot easier!

I used a mono pod when filming last week, It made life a lot easier!


What make and model works with the H1? It seems a bit on the heavy side for most cheap monopods.

Thanks!

What make and model works with the H1? It seems a bit on the heavy side for most cheap monopods.

Thanks!




I used a Manfrotto, not sure of the model number tho

Using a monopod is different than a video tripod head. I have a Manfroto monopod and it is great. Supporting a camcorder to keep it stable is different than picking a video head that is made for a certain weight. It is not going to collapse under the weight, just helps you support or hold the camcorder.

Mike

I tried using a monopd a couple of times, first with my XL2 then with the H1.It really didn't work for me. At weddings, I try to use the tripod for the ceremony, and my steady stick or hand held for the rest. I just ordered the multirig pro from danny natovich. It's gotten great reviews, and I'm looking forward to using it.
I had better luck with the monopod shooting with my smaller Sony FX1.
Bruce S. yarock
www.yarock.com

IMHO the big advantage of all shoulder mount cams is that they leave your fingers on the buttons. To me the multirig is a step backwards.

The big issue for me is how quickly I can go from tripod to shoulder mount and back. Any support device has to incorporate a quick release.

BTW anyone know what happened to dvcaddie.com - site is not there

IMHO the big advantage of all shoulder mount cams is that they leave your fingers on the buttons. To me the multirig is a step backwards.
You don't have to use both grips or any at all, You can fold the grips and hold
the camera grip or the focus ring.

The big issue for me is how quickly I can go from tripod to shoulder mount and back. Any support device has to incorporate a quick release.


With the MultiRig you can keep your camera plate mounted on the MultiRig and slide it on and off the tripod in 3 sec.