Hello guys,

We had the pleasure of having a loan of the FX1 last week, so we decided this was a great opportunity to test drive it with the new SGpro Revision 2. Revision 2 of the SGpro proves to be much better suited to the HD format, utilizing a new high quality, fully anti reflection coated achromat thats actually custom designed and made for the purpose, new condenser lens and new GG. Here is an image of the SGpro r2 connected to the FX1:

http://www.sgpro.co.uk/SGpro_r2_FX1.jpg

First thing we did was to shoot a res chart. This was with a 50mm F1.4 lens set to F4, and the FX1 set to F2 (warning its a 6MB file).

http://www.sgpro.co.uk/FX1e_SGpro_r2_res%20chart.tif

We went out and shot some footage with the setup. There are 4 scenes, but i've only uploaded the first. Its a scene in a bar, all natural light.

Its a 40MB file in wmv format:

http://www.sgpro.co.uk/SGpror2_FX1e_pub.wmv

and a full res grab from the above footage:

http://www.sgpro.co.uk/face03.jpg

Also, for all you bokeh fans, here is a small clip from the other scenes:

http://www.sgpro.co.uk/SGpror2_FX1e_bokeh.wmv

I will be rendering and uploading the other 3 scenes tonight, and will post ASAP. The 3 other scenes are all exterior.

I would love to know your opinions on the footage.

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*EDIT*
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OK, i've uploaded 1 of 3 of the exterior footage. This was shot with the following lenses:

Canon FD:
24mm F2
28mm F1.8
50mm F1.4
85mm F1.8

The file is 60MB:

http://www.sgpro.co.uk/SGpror2_FX1e_brighton_marina.wmv

And some full frame grabs from the footage above:

http://www.sgpro.co.uk/flowers.jpg

http://www.sgpro.co.uk/flag.jpg

http://www.sgpro.co.uk/appartments.jpg


All of the footage was shot in Cineframe25 mode.

It's shaaarp!

Wayne, as far as i can see the improvement from the previous model is VERY BIG!

It's sharp. It's very sharp! Actually is one of the sharpest footages with a 35mm adapter i've seen. Even at wide open aperture on the lens, it seems that the sharpness don't care :)

To be honest, i can't find something bad in that footage. I think that my upcoming hvx will need this great thing!!

Great work Wayne!!

Looks damn good. I only wish you'd had the lens stopped down a little when shooting the guy in the Pub -- clearly you could've done it given the f/4.0 segment. For shooting a person, f/1.4 is IMO too soft.

But, it all looks damn good, like I said :) Congrats!

Thanks guys,

Jim: Yes you're right. Being a maker and not a shooter, im not up to scratch with pulling focus. But from my time last week shooting, i've learnt the importance of not shooting wide open. Firstly, no lens is at its sharpest wide open anyway, but also the bokeh is very mushy fully wide. I think closing down the aperture gives a much more pleasing image. As you say, I should have shot the guys face (my father) @F2.8 or higher.

I am happy with the new GG though. The light loss is very low indeed, and the amount of diffussion/bokeh seems nice. There is no flickering with the new GG even at 1/2000th shutter speed. Its professionally made for me, both the disk cut and finished. The revision 1 disks were hand finished by myself.

Awesome. I had laid an eye on your adaptor for a while now but I am happy that I waited.

This is absolutely awesome. I am now seriously considering to stop my experiments with other gear (the Canon ee-s is good, but I can't get an achromat setup to work ;-).

Please take this as a compliment to your excellent work.

Are we still at 450 quid? I fear not.

Thanks for the kind words.

Yes the r1 was £400 and the r2 is £450.

Holey shamoley.

I'll start saving instantaneously.

I wish I hadn't booked that stupid stupid holiday ...

Wayne,

Looks great. I think that is some fine footage. I am surprised you didn't stop down on the lens though and shot it all at 1.4...

Thanks David.

It was not all shot @F1.4. The video show what the aperture setting was in each shot, some @F4. One shot you see me stopping down from wide to F4.

That footage looks great, really sharp. Did you try any other lenses with the FX1 setup (besides the 50mm & 85mm)?

Nice bokeh! It's pretty bad when you start noticing the number of aperture blades on spec highlights during a focus rack:-) F4 on that 85mm is not bad to get some decent aperture discs showing up. I've found that full open (as many like to use them) does not look good at all.

"I've found that full open (as many like to use them) does not look good at all."-----------------

A local industry professional expresses a preference not to have the SLR lenses fully open, but to be able to use the range f4 to f8.

This enables focus to hold for dynamic situations where a wide-open lens would be almost impossible to control for focus, eg., tracking ahead of a person walking fast, periodically stopping and describing things, yet allow some softness of background.

Bob, I've been chasing my 3 year old around all week with an adapter and stabilizer. Shallow DOF is useless in that situation :-)

As I'm sure you've already found out, the sharpest images come with a mix of both 35mm lens and video cam aperture...generally from f2.8 to f4 or so. Wayne's got it right shooting at f4.

Thanks for your comments.

Kyle: Yes I have 3 more clips to post today, shot with:

24mm F2
28mm F1.8
50mm F1.4
85mm F1.8

All exterior shots. Just need to finish the lens info then upload.

Dennis: Yes i'm very happy with the way the GG renders the highlights and bokeh. As we all know it’s tough to get good bokeh and low lightloss. I think I’ve hit the compromise just right. That’s why I love your 'swappable diffuser' option on the Brevis.

Dennis and Wayne.

If you have a spare copy of the fine groundglass, try melting parrafin wax onto the groundglass face, fine pieces shaved off with a fine grater onto the GG, slowly cooked up in bottom of a frypan until it melts and spreads, no hotter, let it set and cool, then boil it off in a pot of water and dishwash detergent, then cleaned with Preen the great unstainer, then rinsed off in warm water with hands only, rubbed on with raw detergent, then rinsed off again with hands again, not cloth or tissue and then allowed to dry on its own.

I'm getting a freak result with a AO5 GG which I think may have a fine residue of wax in the very bottom of the pits and valleys but the ridges and peaks are clean.

I can close this thing down to f16 and there is no flicker, but moving smooth objects get grain, fixed objects do not - very confusing. I am using a CD-R sized glass spinning disk at about 1500rpm.

At f16, with camcorder settings adjusted for correct exposure, a very slight improvement in contrast and colour seems to happen. However, high contrast edges like street poles against bright blue sky gain quite a thick lighter coloured outline.

Conditions, camcorder and adaptor settings:-

1-30pm, clear bright sky, sun at 60 degrees to one side shining towards but mainly across image plane.


Adaptor.

AO5 disk glass CD-R sized @ 1500 rpm.


SLR lens.

Nikon f1.8 85mm set at f16.


Camcorder.

Sony FX1.
7+ Century Optics acromatic dioptre.
2 x rigth-angle prisms.
Zoom at about 45mm for 28mm wide 16:9 frame off GG.
Shutter 1/50th sec.
ND off.
AE slow auto.
Gain setting 0db.
Aperture manual for best image.

We are working towards a microwax optional GG solution...but I'll take that elsewhere for fear of high jacking Wayne's thread here.

OK, i've uploaded 1 of 3 of the exterior footage. I've also edited my first post to add this at the bottom. This was shot with the following lenses:

Canon FD:
24mm F2
28mm F1.8
50mm F1.4
85mm F1.8

The file is 60MB:

http://www.sgpro.co.uk/SGpror2_FX1e_brighton_marina.wmv

And some full frame grabs from the footage above:

http://www.sgpro.co.uk/flowers.jpg

http://www.sgpro.co.uk/flag.jpg

http://www.sgpro.co.uk/appartments.jpg


All of the footage was shot in Cineframe25 mode.

Cineframe 25! This looks so awesome.

No ca, no distortion and no flickering as i can see.
I am sure that if the aperture wasn't wide open in some shots, it would be even better.

Great work Wayne!

It's pretty bad when you start noticing the number of aperture blades on spec highlights during a focus rack:-)


Is this a critique to the footage's bokeh or to bad bokehs? It sounded a little confusing.
The bokeh on these clips are just gorgeous!
In fact it's the best bokeh I ever seen around here, including footage from the M2, Letus whatever version, G35, MPIC, Brevis or any other tryouts and product wannabes and custom jobs.

Michael, I have nothing but respect for Wayne's ongoing work to improve his product. The comment can be classified as facetious self-deprecation. I've been looking at so much adapter footage lately that I tend to notice the number of blades in the lens aperture :-)

Wayne, do you have a pic of the 28 and 85mm f1.8 lenses? That's a near perfect collection.

Also, looking at the footage, I'd guess you've backed off the diffusion level a bit in favour of less light loss and better sharpness? The spinner looks nice and solid. Evidently you've got an effective collet for the element. Kudos :-)

As I am on the wrong end of a 300 metre overhead copper pair landline, a 60mb download is not a practical option, however on the strength of the .jpg images, very well done. I like the "character study" with the cigarette and the backlights.

Michael: Thanks for the kind words

Dennis: I know exactly what you mean, heck I can't even watch a film anymore without noticing the aperture blades on highlights. By time i've counted i've missed the story ;)

Regarding the lenses, the 28mm is shown in this pic: http://www.sgpro.co.uk/SGpro_r2_FX1.jpg . This lens was the best find. Sigma 28mm F1.8 Asperical, brand new all in wrapping and box, £22 on ebay! Its a really sharp lens, only thing is it has a green bias compared to the others, this is evedent in the Brighton Marina footage.

Bob: Perhaps I can send you footage on DVD like you sent me your prism tests on DVD.

Michael, I have nothing but respect for Wayne's ongoing work to improve his product. The comment can be classified as facetious self-deprecation. I've been looking at so much adapter footage lately that I tend to notice the number of blades in the lens aperture :-)

You say that as if it was a bad or uncommon thing. The blades shape look better than fuzzy circles in my opinion and you see it all the time in 35mm originated material from big screen Hollywood features. I don’t see the problem really. As I said Wayne’s bokeh is the best so far, very film like and it seems the sharpest footage too. I think he’s proving a spinner is the way to go.
Or were you saying it’s bad when you start seeing the blades meaning you have been looking at footage for too long and are now paying attention and noticing even the little normal details, but there’s nothing bad or abnormal about the bokeh?

Michael,

I think Dennis was implying the second, saying its bad that we now notice this so much.

Dennis, yes the diffussion was backed off only a little from the Rev 1's GG's. Its very slight, though.

Hi Wayne, and others here in this forum.

I Congratulate you here to for the SGPro. Its an amasing step forward. When I'm looking at the footage, and pictures, I'm stunned. Have no words how beautyfull the bokeh, and the sharpness is. Of cours we cant compare to a cine lens, but its simply beautyfull. Never seen sharpness like this in all the adapters that I saw footage from.

Backing off diffusion is not necessarily a bad thing. The impression of greater DOF, for those who find it important, can be achieved with greater diffusion, or just stepping back and using a longer focal length lens. I've always tended towards the sharper side of things, as you've done, to keep light loss down and image sharpness high.

For adapter makers, the desire for max DOF at full wide apertures sometimes flies in the face of the goal of max image quality. Stop down aperture to get better performance from your lens, DOF gets deeper. Open it wide, lens performance suffers, but DOF is shallower. Increaase diffusion, image gets softer. It's the juggling of these variables that makes each adapter unique.

Wayne.

If you can send a DVD this would be much appreciated.

I have made some negative discoveries in my own design which I cover in my latest post on the original Agus35 thread. Its not a big deal but explains why I hit the wall for resolution.

Hey Wayne!

I've been reading up on the SgPro and I think at this stage, it's never been better. I have a few questions for you however:

- I noticed the extension tube with the setup. Will that be the same for other cameras or it'll just be for the fx1?
I'm starting to wonder how far away the adapter is gonna be when attached to an XL2.

- On the subject of XL2, have you had any XL2 users with the SgPro?
I've been looking all over and most SgPro users use them on everything else except XL2. I can only imagine the setup to look like the XL2 + M2 since both adapters look similar.

- I think I might have missed this but what's the update on the PL mount for the SgPro?

- Lastly, by interchangeable mounts, you mean that I can switch from a Nikon to a Canon with no hassle right? How much for an additional mount?

thanks

Zulkifli,

The increased length in the Rev.2 will be the same for all cams. Because of the slim profile of the enclosure, it does make the tube look fairly long. I think the actual distance from lens mount to camcorder thread is actually shorter then the M2, though.

I have had users of the XL1, Xl2 and XLH1 for the SGpro Revision 1, however i've had no feedback from them. However, the XL2 is guaranteed to work with the SGpro Rev.2. The support rods have offset holes machined ready for the XL series.

We are working on the PL mount now. We think its likely that it will become available at the end of October.

All mounts are interchangeable. To swap, the Rev.2 mounts are held via 3 bolts. These can be unscrewed from the front (no need to open the box) and new mount replaced. Also, the difference in register (flange focal length) is machined into the actual mounts, so there is no need to open the box and start changing the GG position!

If anyone would like me to upload a small clip from the above footage in full HD res, let me know the time index of the clip, and I can upload it. Maybe a 5 second clip from the footage.

We are working on the PL mount now. We think its likely that it will become available at the end of October.

That sounds good! I'll definitely get the PL and Nikon mounts. Nikons for small projects and rent cine primes for bigger projects!! :) The added option of a PL mount is so cool Im drooling.


However, the XL2 is guaranteed to work with the SGpro Rev.2. The support rods have offset holes machined ready for the XL series.

If I make an order for the XL series, would it readily work on other cameras like the sonys or panasonics as well? I'll be shooting on a borrowed/rented XL2 most of the time but I would like to have it work on other cameras should the need arises.

Thanks

If I make an order for the XL series, would it readily work on other cameras like the sonys or panasonics as well? I'll be shooting on a borrowed/rented XL2 most of the time but I would like to have it work on other cameras should the need arises.
Thanks

Yes it will. The support's base plate is adjustable left/right and also in height via the provided shims. The rear of the SGpro is 72mm thread, so you would need a step ring for anything other then 72mmm (HVX200).

Hi Wayne,

it would be great if you could upload a 5sec part of the scene where you stopped down the iris in the pub clip. Original MPEG2 would be great, no need to flip for these samples - better to have a feel for how the camera captures the situation and compresses it.

And, but that's bonus, a 5 sec part of the Brighton Peer scene - possibly something with the 24mm lens to assess the hotspot/ sharpness situation wide open in broad daylight. Again 5 secs mpeg2 or less.

It would be awesome and greatly help to realise the full beauty of your creation.

Thanks in advance,

Thomas

Thomas,

Sure, i'll try and get that uploaded a little later for you.

Thanks a lot. I'm so much looking forward to this great stuff. Being a bloody perfectionist I want to count the grain pixels :-)

I am convinced there will be few

Hi,

I've managed to upload a few clips in full resolution MPEG2. Each is around 10MB:

http://www.sgpro.co.uk/fullres_pub01.m2v

http://www.sgpro.co.uk/fullres_pub02.m2v

http://www.sgpro.co.uk/fullres_pub03.m2v

http://www.sgpro.co.uk/fullres_pub04.m2v

http://www.sgpro.co.uk/fullres_24mm01.m2v

http://www.sgpro.co.uk/fullres_50mm01.m2v

Awesome, and so much material.

I am very happy now.

To anyone who might read this: You must download the uncompressed material, it's sensational.

Can't see any increased compression artifacts with VLC on a 19inch 1440 by 900 LCD screen (viewing distance: 20 cm, compared to my usual FX1 footage).

Very sharp - and just like film, no visible grain in the in-focus areas.

Thanks Thomas,

Only thing that annoyed me about the footage, was I found the FX1 to be very noisey (video noise). I explorered this more after the shoot, and it was the same without the adapter, and even outside so it was not low light.

Anyone else found the FX1 to be like this?

Congats Wayne.

I saw the pic of the face and I could almost listen to the man`s thought
as it was so isolated from the background. He was thinking `these
blokes are screwing PS technik`.

Best of Luck

Alexandre

Hi Wayne,

I compared my FX1 footage with your adapter footage. The per pixel noise of the FX1 is obviously higher than any recent 1/3" SD camcorder. However, John Beale has shown somewhere in this forum how a downrezzed FX1 can almost beat the VX2100 at low light.

The great thing about the SGPro is the camera noise is hidden by the GG grain, which is 1 to 2 Pixels in diametre. So little sharpness is lost (if at all), but camera noise is hidden in a filmlike grain pattern.

By the way, have you got the SGPro picture with the FX1 in a higher res, I would love to put it as a wallpaper on my PC.

Thomas,

Interesting stuff. Will be interested to hear more of your findings after you receive your unit.

Here is a higher res version:

http://www.sgpro.co.uk/SGpro_FX1_02.jpg

And also one without FX1 or SLR attached:

http://www.sgpro.co.uk/SGpro_01.jpg

I am so much looking forward to this.

Thanks for the hi-res version of your product photo - it is now decorating my desktop.

BTW, where do you do your product photography? It just looks awesome.

Thanks Thomas,

If I told you the product photos were shot using a £40 automatic digicam (no manual controls), a sheet of black acrylic and 3 60w house bulbs, what would you say?:D

I would say you make absolutely excellent use of the stuff you already got or can get hold of cheaply. Best example the product photography example you just told us or your Sigma 28mm 1.8 bargain.

Please stay so creative, I think its a great addition to the DVi community.

All the best,

Tom

Thanks Thomas,

I've just picked up a nice Canon FD body to accompany my FD lesnes, so I think I will reshoot the product photos on film and compare.

Remember to use a filter to adjust to tungsten lightning or they will look really awful. Tried it once - no way to colour correct in the PC - just too much orange and too little latitude on the print. Maybe a negative scanner would have worked, but I did not have one at hand.

Yep good point since i just bought daylight film;)

Ill grab a filter

Wayne,

That resolution chart is very sharp. I wish more 35mm adapter makers would use them, it really is a telling-tale.