I've been using an on-camera light (25 watt Ultralight) at receptions for years with great success. Last night, the bride's mom complained to me that it was too bright and made me shut it off. I've never had anyone say that before. The footage I shot after the light was turned off is dreadful -- muddy, dark, with poor color.

What do you use (if anything)? Have you ever had a complaint? I was quite upset, knowing that the footage would look like garbage.

Hey Bill,
I did have a complaint once, I was using a 20 watt light as well and the guest were complaing to the Bride my light was to bright and to turn of the light. It was no problem for me, I just did it. To try to fix the problem for myself I actually bought 3 watt lights for the camcorders. Yeah they are very weak, but they're not to bright to cause guests to complain. There's enough light from them to have the main person of focus clear and colorful on the screen. In post I do have to bump up the gain a tad, it looks descent than with no light. That's what I've done for my situation. Take Care

Monday

Hey Bill,
I did have a complaint once, I was using a 20 watt light as well and the guest were complaing to the Bride my light was to bright and to turn of the light. It was no problem for me, I just did it. To try to fix the problem for myself I actually bought 3 watt lights for the camcorders. Yeah they are very weak, but they're not to bright to cause guests to complain. There's enough light from them to have the main person of focus clear and colorful on the screen. In post I do have to bump up the gain a tad, it looks descent than with no light. That's what I've done for my situation. Take Care

Monday
Do you usethe 20 watt light anymore?

Not any longer only the 3watt light for reception events. Got rid of it. If I need lights I use my studio lights so I can control the lighting environment. That's when I do other type of jobs besides event filming.

I've been using an on-camera light (25 watt Ultralight) at receptions for years with great success. Last night, the bride's mom complained to me that it was too bright and made me shut it off. I've never had anyone say that before. The footage I shot after the light was turned off is dreadful -- muddy, dark, with poor color.

What do you use (if anything)? Have you ever had a complaint? I was quite upset, knowing that the footage would look like garbage.

Wow...
u know.. ive had afew people squint.. some drunks too blind to know better have given me attitude.. but this was teh class of the clientelle... or shoudl that be LACK of class for that particualr clientelle's guest list..
but thats about it.. noone had the audacity to demand i kill the lights...
I run 35w on cam if i ever do run them on cam...

i also run a 75w light about 8feet up when shooting dancefloors and then go commando as i hit the floor myself..
i get some awesome shots, nice shadows, textures... movement... colour... and as i dont have a direct light in peoples faces it works a treat when im grooving right beside them (no cardboard cutouts... )
Also photographers love me for my lights and their results are as pristine as my own...

for on cam, sometimes i use them as fill lights if im shooting from afar, but still no trouble

I think its how u hold urself as to what they expect YOU to do for THEM.. when theyre not the client...
When they see me all kitted out and shit, they dont bother interfering with what im doing. manning two cameras and seing me flying left right and centre, they know im busy and not restong on my lawrels...

I think its the attitude.... as i always have the look of "i know what im doing stay out of my way" no matter what im doing... and i dont hesitate.. if i do hesitate, people pick up on this...
Im approachable... hell i could tell u stories as how im approachable.. lol my wife dont liek teh idea of teh fone numbers i get though. lol.. but in the end, i have a jobto do..

If lighting is an issue.. come up with a solution or a standard response such as "if i turn off the lights, the cameras cannot see. If the cameras cannot see, we do not have video or photos."
Make sure you mention photos, as most people see video as a throwaway service and not as important as photography... i mean think about it. how distracting is flash photography in ur face, compared to a steady light which is 10metres away and 8-10 feet in the air?

also diffusors and barndoors make a huge difference.. i usually allow a small slit (2cm) to pass through when shooting from a direct on cam light, with a 2 stop filter on the light itself.. so even if it is bright, its even and soft with a white throw

Hell ive even shot weddings where couples have asked me to turn ON my lights and even pull out the Lowel Tota kit from the car...

Regular on-camera lights are usually very aggressive because the tiny yet powerful light bulb.
So unless it is covered with some diffuser, any attempt to give a quick look to the camera usually produce some pain to the subject.
if they can ignore it, the result is visible on the picture.
You know this typical kind of grin that people have when they forget their sunglasses at the beach.
To avoid that i built a LED lamp. (we discuss this already somewhere on thisDVinfo).
it gives me better illumination (more diffuse, less shadow) on a wider range (great for 16/9 or wide angle) and you can easily look at it without much disturbance. I tested it when shooting into crowdy place, and i can ensure you that it make a tremendous difference about the behavior of people regarding the camera. they are not lifting hands against lamp anymore, they look more directly at you, they are not trying to flee the light.
It is nice, because i remember a shoot on stage from some singer.
I was able to go on scene to take different angle, even from backstage.
The camera got a nice 50W lamp (it was at night in summer), and each time i was shooting the singer from backstage (seeing his back and the audience as background) i got people whistling... until i discovered they where whistling at me because the light on the cam.

I use a 10/20 watt with a diffuser. I cut the diffuser and added a thin plastic shopping bag to it with tape because the diffuser made the light too weak. It works great. I had one person comment at my last wedding on how nice it was because the light was not too bright.

The way I play it is 10 watts with the diffuser in the beginning of the reception. Then 20 watt with the diffuser as the night and lights get darker. When I go on the ladder, it is 20 watts without the diffuser.

The people that complain are usually the drunk and ignorant, who don't know any better and look directly into the light. I remind them not to look directly into the light and it will be better.

What my boss tells me is use the bride as an excuse and say something like she said she wanted the light or she wants the best video and the light helps make the best video and this is her day. Maybe not exactly those words but something similiar.

I feel lights are a must and I wouldn't go lower than 10 watts.

Thats good advice about the mentioning the photographer. Mention that with the bride and people will see that the light is a neccessity that can not be argued.

I use a soft box with a dimmer and have never had a complaint.

Yes, I use the AB Ultralight 2 when I must, and it does do a fantastic job of giving me the needed extra light. I do though reccomend getting a soft box for it, as it does throw off a strong light that can be disterbing to the guests (I know I need to get one myself - oops!). But, even without the softbox, it's not "that" bad. . .

I never had a complaint about the light, though I have had some squints (especially for interview/well wish segments).

Just make sure you have LOTS of batterys, as it will eat them up quick. Like I said, I only use the light when I must . . .

Ryan

I've never had anyone say that before. The footage I shot after the light was turned off is dreadful -- muddy, dark, with poor color.It's one complaint - nothing more.

Next time tell the MOB to poll the guests about the DJ's loud speakers. Or ask her why she needs a seeing eye dog after each flash from the photographer.

No, of course you can't say those things. :)

Just burn bring out as much as you can in post and burn it. Send a note with the final DVD saying, "Sorry about the darkness of your dance - a family member requested the light be turned off."

Next wedding... don't change a thing. If folks tinker with your tools or style, they'll get the result of said, "tinkering".

I tell them at booking I will be using a light. (and explain why of course). 20 watts doesn't seem to affect the drunk and stupid.

Diffusion and dimmers have already been touched on, but I would like to go a little more in-depth.

We use NRG on camera lights with dimmers. We have the 100 watt bulbs, but rarely go past 50%. You might think 50% sounds high, but there is another dimension to this.

We use an NRG 60% diffusion grid, about $25. It replaces the stock grid and looks almost as good as a soft box. While doing interviews or when I am physically closer to the subject, I'll use a minimal amount of light. When the subject if further away, I will increase the light, and then at the end of the night when the limo is driving away, I will increase it to the max as the limo gets further away.

When we give workshops on shooting techniques I now bring along a light with the stock grid and one with the 60% diffusion grid. I shine both lights at the videographers. This way they can see how an undiffused light is more painful to look at versus the diffused light.

Even the little Sony 10/20 lights can cause pain when positioned close to the subject without some type of diffusion.

I'm using the X-3 lamp which is an LED camera light. It has a dimmer and I never go past 60% power when doing receptions. Another important factor is the color temp. of the light you are using. I've been using a Full CTO gel which really warms up the color so it's not such a white/blindout effect. It looks better on tape also.

Do you at least have a dimmer?

I use a very old 12v, 35 watt (I think) Mini-Cool by Cool-Lux. It punches out quite a hot spot, so I have attached a flip-down diffusion gel for close-up use. It is made from coat hanger wire carefully shaped to fit around the light's housing and is secured by the light's own assembly screws.

It works fine, but is quite a power hog. I use a heavy sealed gel 12 battery made by Bescor to power it. The battery and belt cost some $120.00. However, I discovered that the battery itself is quite common and can be purchased for around $20.00 at a specialist battery shop. The vendor I use is a company called Intermountain Battery. In our rural county of some 60,000 people Intermountain Battery has staffed a warehouse for several years servicing any kind of equipment that needs battery back up, from hospitals to cell phones to solar powered road signs to remote radio station transmitters.
So look for this kind of business in your area. B&H sold me mine. Becsor probably sold it to them for about $40.00. Bescor probably purchased the battery for about $5.00. The belt and bag probably cost about $1.00. I could have had the same product (had I given it any careful thought) for around $30.

I'm not a usual wedding guy, so I don't use an onboard light (always thought them obtrusive and annoying) I went to +12db gain when required on the H1 and was blown away by how well the images held up. Also moved a few candles around near the cake when shooting it.

Also maybe we should tell people, if you want to look good, wear lighter clothing and stand where the lighting is nice. I shot bride and FOB basked in glorious light, while groom and MOG lurked in the shadows. Hey, as a cinematographer, I'm not passing up that beautiful well lit shot.

Do any of you use other types of lighting equipment like a Lowel Rifa or other heavily diffused light maybe over the dance floor if there isnt enough lighting? I shot a outdoor wedding which had virtually no lighting outside other than some Christmas tree type lights on a couple branches on the tree right above the dancing area, and even with 18+db on my FX1, it was virtually pitch black. I've been looking into some lighting gear for interviews, company training videos, possibly some short films, but I didn't know if anyone had any suggestions in regards to off-camera lighting for weddings.

I have two frezzy mini fill lights with dimmers and those things are great. I bought 100watt versions but I just use the 20watt bulbs from home depot because 100watts is just way too bright. The 100watt bulbs would have been handy at my last wedding where the bride and groom exited in the dark while I videotaped them from the deck high above them. I have been thinking about getting a softbox to help defuse the light a little. Overall, I think they are great lights. I also have the AB ulltralight 2 but I don't like it because you can not dim it unless you buy their $250 dimmer. I didn't realize how important the dimmer was when I bought it. I am going to sell it and buy a mini fill that has the power tap connector.

Also, I have never had anyone complain about the lights before. In my contract it specifically asks for permission to use extra lighting so that they can't come back and yell at me because the footage is too dark.

Bill,
I have to ask who paid for the wedding and did you show Mom what the video would look like with no light? I use a PD-170 and it still wants good light otherwise it's a brown grainy mess. BTW, I wouldn't put my company name on that movie either.

Other than that, we use the dimmable 35W Frezzi micro fill with soft box. Works fine and doesn't seem to bother anyone.

We use two vx-2000s and the sony 3 watt light i think. It helps out a lot and i feel it does not interfer with the reception to much.
Receptions are dark for a reason....becuase the people who paid for them want them dark. We always tell them that if there's no light the video won't turn out good. They understand what there getting into before we shoot.

Receptions are dark for a reason....becuase the people who paid for them want them dark. Really? I always thought it's because the banquet manager or DJ just say to dim the lights. :)

It's never been my esperience to actually have a couple request "low" lighting and I've heard of videogs actually putting tape on the dimmers to prevent this. (Or so they say).

- RT

I've had people get upset with the main Guy who shoots at weddings. They where upset that we kept the lights somewhat up at the cerimony so the cameras could see good.

Do any of you use other types of lighting equipment like a Lowel Rifa or other heavily diffused light maybe over the dance floor if there isnt enough lighting? I shot a outdoor wedding which had virtually no lighting outside other than some Christmas tree type lights on a couple branches on the tree right above the dancing area, and even with 18+db on my FX1, it was virtually pitch black. I've been looking into some lighting gear for interviews, company training videos, possibly some short films, but I didn't know if anyone had any suggestions in regards to off-camera lighting for weddings.

If necessary I have around 3500 watts of AC lights on stands (all 3200 degree K or slightly above) that I can use if I am in a situation where the ambient lighting is poor. When I have to use this equipment I make sure everyone involved agrees it is necessary, and then try to bounce the light off of walls or ceilings for more diffusion and less obtrusion.

My equipment is home made from a collection of DJ spot light fixtures, construction work lights, painter's extension poles, home made barn doors, and diffusion gel holders, and carefully chosen 3200K light bulbs. I thought of buying "real" lighting equipment, but since the need to use them might happen once a year i thought it better (and more fun) to devise my own.

Make no mistake, any kind of carefully focused and controlled auxillary lighting equipment will always make a video look many times better. Integrating effective artificial lighting essential to video production into a social environment will always be a challenge!

When I go on the ladder, it is 20 watts without the diffuser.


Ladder? Do you mean a ladder ladder?

yeah sometimes i use a lowel 3 piece kit... depends on teh situation and how much throw i need. if its outdoor in the dark, id raun teh 800w lowel tota ... soft nice white diffused adn reflected throw from a brella noones annoyed unless they look behind them and se the light directly...

also have a Lowel Mni (2 of these) which care focusable and u can mount filters and the like.. but i hadly ever use these... the smaller setupus (ive got 3 Luxmen video lights which run off 12v cigarette lighter batteries) and these work jsut fine... one is 35w, another is 75w, and another is 100w having all 3 saves changing globes and ive always got a backup unit. I usually run the 75w about 8 feet in the air and about 4 metres from the dancfloor... i run the 35w oncam as a fill if needed. Larger venues i hoist the 100w instead of teh 75... usually dont need more than that unless ur looking at a basetball stadium reception (whch ive done.. 2000 guests.. 4 cameras... NEVER AGAIN... lol )

Yes, I use a 3 step ladder to shoot over and into the dancing crowd.

Sometimes I use it for the ceremony, when the tripod is at its full height of 9 feet.

Yes, I use a 3 step ladder to shoot over and into the dancing crowd.

Sometimes I use it for the ceremony, when the tripod is at its full height of 9 feet.


Hey Richard, not to be silly, but serious, could you shoot a pic of that ladder, I wanted to know what you're using. I'm curious that this may be something neat to do.

Yes, I use a 3 step ladder to shoot over and into the dancing crowd.

((umm.. why not stand on a chair?? or if theres a stage.. shoot from there... ??
Thats what i do and i dont have to lug shit around.. I can se how a 3rung ladder comes in handy though.. i use one when taking stills and large group shots..

"Sometimes I use it for the ceremony, when the tripod is at its full height of 9 feet."

((What camera are u using? If its got an LCD screen, can u not flip the screen down? I also run a cam at this height and on a dolly, it hits about 10 feet or so, usually i set focus (zoom in focus, and then pull out) and then control zoom via LANC, but its safer and less obstrusive to flip the screen down and look up as u preview ur shots.. Just a thought.. ))

Do any of you use other types of lighting equipment like a Lowel Rifa or other heavily diffused light maybe over the dance floor if there isnt enough lighting? I shot a outdoor wedding which had virtually no lighting outside other than some Christmas tree type lights on a couple branches on the tree right above the dancing area, and even with 18+db on my FX1, it was virtually pitch black. I've been looking into some lighting gear for interviews, company training videos, possibly some short films, but I didn't know if anyone had any suggestions in regards to off-camera lighting for weddings.

I have recently started using floodlights on stands around the dance floor to increase the available light so I don't have to increase the gain on my Canon cameras to +12db. I made my own system out of contractors work lights (mostly for the challenge and the learning experience). Next year I will be purchasing a system to save weight and size. My method is to bounce the lights off of the ceiling. That will probably evolve into something different. My initial thought was to use the lights for the traditional dances and then turn them off, but I am finding the bounced light is not generating complaints so I am keeping them on throughout the reception. Most of the venues I work in have rather low ceilings and do not accomodate more than 120 guests. The photographers I work with love it. One has decided to buy her own system so she has decent focusing light when we don't work the same events.

I have recently started using floodlights on stands around the dance floor to increase the available light so I don't have to increase the gain on my Canon cameras to +12db. I made my own system out of contractors work lights (mostly for the challenge and the learning experience). .




Waldemar, do you have a screen shot of his setup?

Waldemar,
Stands around the dance floor? First thought that comes to mind is personal injury to guests especially after 10PM. Also, where on earth do you have the time to carry and setup all this equipment? I assume you must have assistants.

I use to work with GL2s and I had to use 12dB all night. Converted to PD-170s in 2004 and have never had to go beyond 6dB with Frezzi micro-fills on board.
Bob

Hey, here is a pic of the ladder. My boss uses a black 3 step and I use a white. I like white better because of the fact it is easier to see. I don't want people bumping into it by mistake. My coworker uses a 2 step, but a 3rd step better in my view.

To me the ladder is a must. When a tripod is too high I don't want to stare up at it, so I use a ladder. I also get more range with the tilt because I am up higher and can point down without strectching my arm. And it is more comfortable in viewing the LCD screen and having a bird's view of what is going on.

Chairs are good if you are in a hurry, I use them too, but a ladder is taller and more professional IMO. Nobody wants to sit in a chair a vendor has been standing on with potentially dirty shoes, so I use them sparingly. Plus. a ladder is taller than a chair.

As for having too much too carry in, it is what is, and it doesn't bother me. All I carry in is my green bag (camera bag), blue bag, tripod with shoulder mount attached, and my ladder. It is fairly easy.

I use a pd170 with a bogen 521 lanc.

Waldemar, do you have a screen shot of his setup?
No I don't. Never thought to take a photo of it. Hower, visit Martin Welk's article in the article section of DV here on DV info. It's called "Home Depo Lighting".

Waldemar,
Stands around the dance floor? First thought that comes to mind is personal injury to guests especially after 10PM. Also, where on earth do you have the time to carry and setup all this equipment? I assume you must have assistants.

I use to work with GL2s and I had to use 12dB all night. Converted to PD-170s in 2004 and have never had to go beyond 6dB with Frezzi micro-fills on board.
Bob
I probably wouldn't want to convert to SONY 2000/ PD 150-70 series cameras, even though nothing beats their low light capability. I like the Canon color rendition as well at its awesome sound quality.
Safety is always a concern for me. When I shoot outdoor weddings I secure my electrical and audio cables to the grount every three feet with garden staples to keep the unwary guest from tripping fnd falling.

In this case a ceiling support column was right next to the dance floor. The light stand was placed next to this column and strapped to it. At about 6' off the floor a small piece of wood about 8" long was secured to prevent any wallpaper damage from the heat of the quartz lights. Had I not been able to arrange safety to my satisfaction I would have chosen to not use the lights. Safety is one of the reasons I will be purchasing a manufactured continuous lighting system for next year.

Yes, I travel with a lot of equipment. I even keep a contractor's toolbox in my vehicle which is filled with a collection of odd things I think I might need. Where do I find the time? I make the time. I long ago chose to never book more than one wedding on any given day. I always do site inspections of ceremony and reception sites unless absolutely impossible. My road cases are packed the day before based on the equipment needs of the shoot and I schedule my onsite arrival time to have everything done at least 45 minutes before guest arrivals. Most of the time I do this alone. Having an assistant is a wonderful luxury. That is another goal for next year...make the luxury a requirement.

I have yet to use an on-camera light when shooting weddings.

I have yet to use an on-camera light when shooting weddings. In fact, I'm always reading on this forum how it's a total must, but I've never really agreed with that. I would only break out the on-camera light in the most serious circumstance (like, if there wasn't a single light on at all). My reasoning is that as a wedding videographer, I'm trying to capture what really happened, and what things really looked like. I use several VX2100s, and the receptions always look great. I find that I never have to bump the gain past 6db, and the colour is rich and the setting looks real. With an on-camera light, the people in the foreground are bright, but the background is dark, too dark. It doesn't look natural.

Of course, I realize that a light should be used if the picture quality is looking really poor, but I find I don't need much ambient light to get a great picture. I always come with a light, just in case, but I've never actually had to use it. Maybe I've just been lucky and all the reception halls I've been at had good lighting, but I've filmed many weddings, some with pretty low light and I still like the no-light look better than with an on-camera light.

I always discuss this with my clients, and show them reception samples. No one has ever requested additional light. After all, it's my job to make sure the footage looks great. Does anyone else use the VX2100 without any extra lighting on a semi-regular basis? I'm curious to hear what people have to say about it.

Matt.

I shoot with a pd170, and I have always used an on-camera light, but would like to stop, at least sometimes. Since I shoot for another guy, I have to do what he says, and he says use lights, but I was second camera at a reception recently and I thought it came out nice without a light (didn't want to lights blaring into the guests).

I showed the footage to others, and opinions are mixed. Most liked the lit footage better, some the natural better. Matthew, you've never had a client not like the natural lighting setup?

My last wedding, I shot with a light, and the photographer without a flash. The bride said that she never even noticed the photographer, but always knew when I was around. She loved the there were so many photographs she didn't even know he took because he moved around in stealth mode with no flash.

Dan


btw, my boss wants LOTS of light, so it's not uncommon during first dances and toasts and such to pump my light up to 50-75 watts. If the b/g are even further away, I have pumped it up to 100 watts... eeek! I read about some of you using 10-20 watt lights and wish I could do that.

No, I've never had a client tell me they were unhappy with the no-light results. And personally, I'm very happy with the results. I'd like to think that I have a critical eye, and I get really upset when footage doesn't look as good as I would like.
My clients are all very aware of this becuase I carefully explain the pros and cons of lighting at a reception and show plenty of sample footage. I guess if they didn't like what they saw, they wouldn't book with me.

I can see why, in a very low or no light setting, a camera light is good. I just think those times are more rare. I would actually consider the camera light an emergency procedure, not a norm.

I see what you are saying about using no lights, but I tried an experiment the other day at a reception. No light VS. 10 watt. The 10 watt footage looks much better with more highlights and contrast.

I would say a light is a must for a wedding videographer. I use one every wedding. I work for 3 companies and they all have different opinions and tastes for exposure. One company likes the footage over-exposed and I don't, but I have to shoot their way. They all agree the a light is a must have.

I guess there is plenty of room for interpretation depending on client, the company, and the shooter.

However, I do like the idea of candids made easier because the light doesn't give the shooter away. I'll experiment with this technique.

I'd say have one in your bag at least. I try to shoot with available whenever possible but there's no way around it sometimes. I explain this to my clients and they have no problem with it. I shoot with the FX 1.

Chris Watson
Watson Videography

No, I've never had a client tell me they were unhappy with the no-light results. And personally, I'm very happy with the results. I'd like to think that I have a critical eye, and I get really upset when footage doesn't look as good as I would like.
My clients are all very aware of this becuase I carefully explain the pros and cons of lighting at a reception and show plenty of sample footage. I guess if they didn't like what they saw, they wouldn't book with me.

I can see why, in a very low or no light setting, a camera light is good. I just think those times are more rare. I would actually consider the camera light an emergency procedure, not a norm.

This is turning into a rather fun discussion. Indeed, it was a bit difficult for me to choose which comment to quote, so I flipped a coin. Matthew won.

In any case, it occured to me that one very important element appeared to be missing in this discussion, and that is the reason for choosing whether or not to use additional lighting at all. A lot depends upon what the camera is capable of recording with minimal grain, but the other aspect is how the shot is intended to look. My logo image is a freeze-frame originally lit only by the multi-colored lights of a DJ dance floor lighting system, which was then enhanced in Photoshop. The right exposure is, in my opinion, always based upon artistic vision and practical need. Sometimes that requires extra light, sometimes not. Bottom line, what works for the production concept is the deciding factor.

Video production is really not that difficult. One just has to know a lot about a lot of different things.

I think Waldemar has brought up a great point; a point that should permeate everything - "what looks great in this situation?". Subjective? Yes. Inappropriate? Not at all. Videography (in my humble opinion) is an art form - one that has many differing opinions on what is "good". I think most would agree that, for most situations, graininess is not a good thing. Different cameras can handle low light better, and grain may not be a problem for one camera when it is a problem for another in the same setting.

For me, I will use a light when I look at my LCD display and say to myself, "this does not look great" or something to that effect. I will certainly have a light in my bag, ready to use if need be. I will also use a light if my client tells me to. :-)

-Matt