Remember you heard it here first. Coming out sometime in Nov in the UK.

3 CMOS, true 1920x1080, true progressive(yes), 4:2:2, 16:9 smaller, cheaper.

I'll be posting a spec sheet in 3 hours. I got this from someone 'inside', and it's no bull.

:)


waiting !!!!!

Just did a search for "HVR-V1E " on Google (in the News section); apparently this was announced yesterday in Amsterdam. Here's a quote from what I found:

"Proving more popular, however, is the low-cost, compressed HDV acquisition format. Since its introduction in January 2005, Sony will have shipped 91,000 professional HDV units worldwide by the end of September, says Climer.

"At IBC, Sony is introducing the HVR-V1E professional camcorder, which features three imaging sensors and will sell for 4,600 euros, and the HVR-DR60 portable hard disk recording unit, which will offer 4.5 hours of continuous recording and will sell for 1,700 euros. Both products will begin shipping in November."

- Martin

Details on the replacement for the Z1 - is the V1 (SonyBiz link) (http://www.sonybiz.net/cgi-bin/bvisapi.dll/templates/neutral_content_product.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@1446312184.1157643363@@@@&BV_EngineID=laddhhijjfjkbemgcfkmcfjfdhl.0&OID=193394).

I posted this in error on the thread about the FX7.

Here is a spec sheet.

http://www.sonybiz.net/images/product/X/HVR-V1E(brch).pdf

Your last link doesn't work...

It's progressive !!!!!

:) :)


http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/786/vyr3.jpg

Note that Sony has not called this camera a Z1 replacement, but an addition to their line which includes the "flagship" Z1.

http://www.sonybiz.net/cgi-bin/bvisapi.dll/templates/std_page.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0202577295.1157648932@@@@&BV_EngineID=daddhjdeldfgbemgcfkmcfjfdhk.0&OID=193623

According to the announcement, the A1 and Z1 are still part of the line. That leads me to wonder what's missing from the V1?...

Sony today announced the addition of its latest professional HDV camcorder, the HVR-V1E, to its wide range of professional HDV products, which includes Sony's first and flagship HDV professional camcorder, the HVR-Z1E and the compact and lightweight HVR-A1E.

interesting, i'm liking the 20x very much and am curious about the 3 CMOS image

25p is swell, but i'd be much happier with either 30p or 24p image straight out of the camera. if anything, i prefer 30p over 24p for the way it handles motion. these are not dissuading me from the new canon cameras just yet. i hope this isn't sony's answer to those cameras, because i would like to see an out-of-the-camera image that doesn't need complete re-rendering or audio adjustments on every project, it's a pain...an HVR-V1U, on the other hand, might turn my head......

Looks like they stuffed new HDV CMOS sensors into a PD-170 body. That would certainly be a way to get a product out quickly, with a minimum of factory retooling. Maybe they still had some PD-170 aluminum shells lying around?

I'm guessing this is a reaction to the new Canons and wasn't part of the original plan.

Doesn't mean it wouldn't be a nice camera, though. Nothing wrong with the PD-170 layout. It all depends on how the 3-CMOS performs.

I remember just a few weeks ago, I was asking "When will we see affordable 1080p cameras?" At that time, people were saying "Not any time soon!"
Glad to see they were wrong.....

Sorry, it does 1080i, not 1080p. It does 25p from a 1080i chip. When a US version comes(?), we'll see if it does 24p or 30p.

Sorry, it does 1080i, not 1080p. It does 25p from a 1080i chip. When a US version comes(?), we'll see if it does 24p or 30p.

Jim, are you sure? The Sony product page states:

"1080/50i and 25p (progressive scan) acquisition
For the first time, Sony has introduced progressive scan acquisition to its professional HDV camcorder range. In addition to typical 50i, the HVR-V1E offers 25P progressive scan capture."

It sounds like the chip is native progressive scan. I could be wrong, I guess.

According to someone I know who is at IBC it IS native progressive.

[QUOTE=Yasser Kassana]...
3 CMOS, true 1920x1080, true progressive(yes), 4:2:2, 16:9 smaller, cheaper.

...QUOTE]

The brochure says "...Coupled with Sony's Enhanced Image Processor (EIP) which internally processes signals at 1920x1080p 4:2:2 ..." and doesn't actually call out the sensor resolution - so, it may not be 1920x1080. The brochure also says that the still image resolution is 1.2MP, which puts it closer to 960x1080 (plus a little).

I would surely like to see this camera do 1920x1080 native - or even 1440x1080 (as the HDV spec addresses), but I wonder if in reality it's closer to the 960x1080 sensor of the new FX7?

4 2 2 Hdv?? Is that possible? With native progressive?

That's what the spec sheet says.....

http://www.sonybiz.net/cgi-bin/bvisapi.dll/templates/neutral_content_product.jsp?OID=193394&section=0&subsection=6&BV_SessionID=@@@@0202577295.1157648932@@@@&BV_EngineID=daddhjdeldfgbemgcfkmcfjfdhk.0

never count out the evil empire!

Forget the camera! I can't wait to see the HVR-DR60! Hopefully it fits nicely on my Z1P...

I've got to admit that this thing is coming up short on my expectation list. Unless that image quality is face melting I'm looking elsewhere.

I want the Z1 replacement to be true 1920x1080 30p/24p with variable frame rates. Tape and card based. HD SDI out and a flip function for the LCD. Hell... build a body that accepts 35mm still lenses and I'll buy 5 of them right now.

I've got to admit that this thing is coming up short on my expectation list. Unless that image quality is face melting I'm looking elsewhere.

I want the Z1 replacement to be true 1920x1080 30p/24p with variable frame rates. Tape and card based. HD SDI out and a flip function for the LCD. Hell... build a body that accepts 35mm still lenses and I'll buy 5 of them right now.

This is NOT a Z1 replacement, just an addition. And if you want all of that, maybe a RED (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=110) is for you, but even at $40,000 (estimated) out the door, it's still a bit beyond most of our members' range. Also, this is the European version, and the FX7 we've been discussing is the Japanese. Let's wait and see what the American version can do.

heath

Forget the camera! I can't wait to see the HVR-DR60! Hopefully it fits nicely on my Z1P...

I have, in the past, shot with a Z1 plumbed into my Apple Powerbook with a firewire lead and iMovie running, but this looks neater !!!

http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/1423/hvrdr60tv1.jpg

It certainly does! I also love the fact that it uses the same batteries as the Z1. Very cleaver.

This is NOT a Z1 replacement, just an addition. And if you want all of that, maybe a RED (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=110) is for you, but even at $40,000 (estimated) out the door, it's still a bit beyond most of our members' range. Also, this is the European version, and the FX7 we've been discussing is the Japanese. Let's wait and see what the American version can do.

heath
I'm aware Heath, but thanks.

To the person who said this replaces the Z1e--it does NOT replace it. The Z1e isn't going anywhere.

heath

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/786/vyr3.jpg
I really like the position of the audio controls. Why does the zoom ring spin infinitely now, though? Seems like if Sony wants to take a step forward, they have to take a step back.

I agree...Except, why do I only see three assign buttons? Must be some more somewhere...

heath

Aww man...just read over the specs of the FX7 with anticipation...nope, no, no, no, no, no and no...why have Sony always got to take 1 step forward then 2 back? So I then had a look at the V1E specs..oh this looks more like it, 20x zoom, 4:2:2, true 1920x1080p....hang on...what do you mean it is 'processed internally' to 50i for compatibility in NLE's..what? How the hell does that work then? So, am I correct in thinking the image sensor is indeed true 1080 25p, but then deliberately interlaces it to 50i before recording to tape? Ok, then you import it into say Premiere Pro under what preset? The normal Sony HDV 50i I presume. Then surely this means that you have to deinterlace the image on output, destroying that nice resolution the camera sensors picked up originally. What's the point or indeed the difference between this and 1080i ? Why couldn't you just give us straight 1080p, no jiggamapokery processing etc. At the Sony factory they do have perfect cameras rolling off the belt, then at the last stage of manufacture they employ a little guy with a big box of spanners, he's on low pay, but he has a big smile on his face like a cheshire cat.
Has my logic taken the wrong path, surely I must be missing something? I know it's early stages and we will have to wait for a proper release, but based on the specs from Sony at the moment I am not a happy chappy unless someone can clarify it.
Sorry for the rant dudes. ;)

Damian, as I understand it, the camera shoots true progressive. I'm guessing it's something to do with the CMOS chips that allows it to be recorded the way it is (however it is!). Hopefully they're release more information on it soon.

I have a feeling that whether or not the camera shoots true progressive will be something people ask for a very long time.

Sorry Mark I just realised I re-iterated your comment on a step forward then back in my previous post hehe.
Anyhow, after reading some other posts there is an interesting view that the image is indeed 1080 progressive all the way, just 'wrapped' in a 50i stream for compatibility. Fair enough since the HDV spec dosen't include 1080p. I can get my head around that since the same is true of many AVI files, the AVI is just a container for the video which can be encoded with different codecs.
I currently own an FX1 but am planning to add a second camera next year. It was/might still be another FX1, but with the news of the V1E...hmmm.
The trouble is, trying to get your equipment to match technically and forward thinking. Would there be any point in having this alongside an FX1 in a wedding shoot, one recording 1080p and the other 1080i? Perhaps 2 V1E's and the FX1 for backup...1080p televisions are sure to become more standard, which leaves the FX1 at a disadvantage...V1E would be better suited...
I'm sure with this news, a lot of you guys et gals are facing these questions?

I really like the position of the audio controls. Why does the zoom ring spin infinitely now, though?

To stop it jumping to a new (absolute) zoom position if you have previously changes the zoom on the rocker switch, as these changes are not reflected in the zoom ring.

Understand ?

I'm looking forward to this camera. While on one level I too would like to see native 1920 x 1080 i/p, that Sony would forge ahead with a CMOS version of the 960x1080i sensor is validation they believe they will have picture quality to retain a strong market share against the Canons of the world. It's indisputable the Canon GR-XH1's native 1440x1080i sensor leads the class on resolution alone, but I saw those clips from it early on and concluded there are equally important if less quantifiable factors that impart a better live quality realism to video streams. The FX1/Z1U series have smoother gradation and better tonality. If a Z1U replacement (yes ahem..I KNOW it remains the so called "flagship") sacrificed its tonality and gradation to achieve a relatively speaking noisier Canon image, one might as well just get the Canon and be done. But I eagerly await what Sony will bring to market in the prosumer class whatever the timetable.

I've been thinking about everything with the V1e, and I'm starting to wonder what's up with a US version. We can assume, based on the V1e's specs, the V1 US will be:

1. 1920x1080

2. Cmos sensors, which are lightning fast compared to the CCD, if I'm not mistaken.

3. It's progressive and interlace.

So, let's speculate a little bit. A US version could have 60i/50i and 30p/25p. But somehow, with the Z1e going nowhere and staying put, I'd assume the same for the Z1u. And that camera does 60i/50i, so I don't know if the V1u would have 50i/25p. But maybe it will, like the Z1u.

Since it's progressive, and I'm going out on a limb here, and judging by the Canon XL H1's specs out of the box and the HD110 and HVX200, I think Sony may throw 24p in there.

I know it's speculation on my part, but I'm just guessing. The XL H1 does 24f, 30f and 60i (25f/50i is an add-on); the HVX200 does 24p, 30p and 60i; the HD110 does 24p and 30p. So why wouldn't Sony put 24p in a camera to compete with the others? 24p was officially added to the HDV spec sheet recently.

http://www.hdv-info.org/HDVSpecifications.pdf

Sony has 24p in their higher-end systems, and I know that we feel Sony doesn't want to compete with the XDCAM HD, etc. But, I feel they NEED to compete with the other sub-$10,000 cameras.

My .02 and I guess we can add this to the wishlist! :-) And as I always say, I'll believe it when I hear it!

heath

To stop it jumping to a new (absolute) zoom position if you have previously changes the zoom on the rocker switch, as these changes are not reflected in the zoom ring.

Understand ?
I understand that purpose of it but I would much rather have a zoom ring that does not spin infinitely so your lens markers actually mean something. Plus, the fastest zoom you can do with the Z1 is done by switching the zoom to servo, putting the zoom ring at full telephoto and switching to ring zoom. And I guess I just really like the feel of holding the camera by the handle, zooming with the ring and being able to feel how far I'm zoomed in.

Oh well, not like I can afford the V1 anyway. :p

We can assume, based on the V1e's specs, the V1 US will be:

1. 1920x1080
It can't be 1920x1080 though, can it? HDV is 1440x1080. I suppose the chips could be 1920x1080 and recorded as 1440x1080, but I'm not sure there would be a noticable difference (unless of course you're going HD-SDI or component out - or maybe it's still 1440x1080 that way).


After looking over this post, I am a poor writer.

Just to stir the pot a little here. Apparently the V1 is not a replacement for the Z1 but is just a little less on the pro side regarding features. Maybe Sony has a Z1 replacement in the wings that will offer more pro features than the Z1 but will be at a higher price point, say arount the price of a H1. With Canons new cameras out you would want to have something in the middle to cover that market and you would want a little separation in the feature market to get people to pay the extra for the higher end camera. Introduce some new things, take away just a few little features.... The V1??? Perhaps we'll see an $8000 Z1 replacement soon that will push the bar up a bit for sub $10K pro'ish cameras.

Just to stir the pot a little here. Apparently the V1 is not a replacement for the Z1 but is just a little less on the pro side regarding features. Maybe Sony has a Z1 replacement in the wings that will offer more pro features than the Z1 but will be at a higher price point, say arount the price of a H1. With Canons new cameras out you would want to have something in the middle to cover that market and you would want a little separation in the feature market to get people to pay the extra for the higher end camera. Introduce some new things, take away just a few little features.... The V1??? Perhaps we'll see an $8000 Z1 replacement soon that will push the bar up a bit for sub $10K pro'ish cameras.

I don't think we'll see a Z1 replacement for a while, unless they do something like the VX2100 and PD150/170 and just do updates like that. Also, from what I've seen on the V1e, it seems to have just as many pro features as the Z1, but just different ones (Progressive-scan vs. interlaced, etc.).

heath

The big problem is the smaller 1"/4 chip size in my view, and this will be its biggest failing with the 'film look' fraternity. It may have 25p, but with less dof control that's a sad trade off.

It's also 4 lux, though the 20x zoom is impressive, going f/1.6 to f/2.8
with a smallish 62 mm filter thread (a consequence of the small chips).

20x zoom sounds as if you'll get less dof, right? Well yes if you can stand the greater magnification then ok, the 20x zoom will give shallower dof. But of course you have to zoom in more - so you can't have a whole head with a blury background, you have to have eyebrows to lips to get the same blur as with a 1"/3 chipped camcorder that shows the whole head. Make sense?

And c'mon Sony. You knew the problem with the PD's sidescreen obsuring the controls when open, and you sorted it good and proper on the FX1. Now we're back to side screens again. Why?

tom.

And c'mon Sony. You knew the problem with the PD's sidescreen obsuring the controls when open, and you sorted it good and proper on the FX1. Now we're back to side screens again. Why?
I could not agree more with this comment.

Ah, but because of the size of all sub-$10,000 cameras' ccds, shallow depth of field is hard to accomplish. It's also never recommended to go higher than F4.0 or so because of the chip size.

I assume to get shallow depth of field with the V1e (as with all other cameras in this category), you'll simply zoom in to the end of the lens, pull the camera back a bit, and open the iris as much as possible.

I also still think/believe/assume/wish, etc., the American version of the V1e will have 24p and 30p. Again, that's what I think/believe/assume/wish, etc. (grin)

heath

And c'mon Sony. You knew the problem with the PD's sidescreen obsuring the controls when open, and you sorted it good and proper on the FX1. Now we're back to side screens again. Why?

tom.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost.php?p=538928&postcount=26

The HVX200, HD110, DVX100, etc., all have the LCD flip-out on the left. Canon's XL H1 doesn't even have one.

Also, I thought the tape transport was on the left still--I was wrong! Sorry.

heath

Tom, those are all good points. Funny, because it seems like the V1 / Z1 relationship is a lot like the PD-170 / PDX-10 relationship. Smaller chips, but with one major feature which the higher priced model lacks. In the case of the PDX-10, you got a high quality 16:9 mode; now the V1 gives you true progressive scanning.

Personally I'm looking forward to user reports on this camera, and also the announcement of a US version. These really seem to be the best of times if you're in the market for an affordable HD camera; there are so many options becoming available. The transition to HD is speeding towards us faster than I had expected.

lets just hope that it does not have the problem with reds that the other cmos sony hdv cams have.... the HC1 mad everyone look like cheap amateurs.

Also... I don't know about you guys.... maybe I'm just a little insecure (not)... but I like a cam a little bigger, l think clients scratch their heads when you show up with an iddy bitty thing that looks like you bought it at bestbuy.

but... I guess for sony.... moving to a new 62mm front... a whole new crop of accessories will be sold. what series of batts does this thing take?

lets just hope that it does not have the problem with reds that the other cmos sony hdv cams have.... the HC1 mad everyone look like cheap amateurs.

Also... I don't know about you guys.... maybe I'm just a little insecure (not)... but I like a cam a little bigger, l think clients scratch their heads when you show up with an iddy bitty thing that looks like you bought it at bestbuy.

but... I guess for sony.... moving to a new 62mm front... a whole new crop of accessories will be sold. what series of batts does this thing take?

I disagree--I've shot many things with the Z1, as have friends and collegues of mine, including DP Jon Fordham who shot a major PSA that was transferred to 35mm for theatrical exhibition. It starred Stanley Tucci and Oliver Platt.

As far as batteries, I think the www.sonybiz.net site said 970s, which are the absolute BEST batteries, IMHO, aside from Anton Bauers.

heath

i was referring to the size of the new cam.... I have a fx1 and love it's size... put some flags and a fail under it and actors start to give it some respect.

did'nt someone shooting with a z1 on the set of "24" say that one of the actors... maybe keefer.... that he could'nt act in front of anything that did'nt have 2 humps on it?

cool that the batts are 970 L's... cause those "m" series batts are dinky.

Christopher,

I've never heard of that before. And the photo Jon Fordham sent to me, of he, the crew, director and Oliver Platt and Stanley Tucci, the Z1 had NO matte box, follow focus, etc. I think actors, clients, etc., know if you're shooting on the Z1, they're getting it. If they hire you to shoot on an F900, then you're bringing that camera.

heath

so do you like that the new cam is smaller than the z1?

so do you like that the new cam is smaller than the z1?

I have a Z1, a PDX-10 and a VX-2000. I don't mind the size of the Z1, but if travelling I'd be happy to have a smaller camera provided that all other things were equal. The PDX-10 is certainly a lot easier to take with you. The VX-2000 is a nice size I think, so I would have no problem with the size of the V1. But I'd want to see what the trade-offs are in terms of control placement and also the LCD screen quality.

Of course there's also the A1 now if you want something really small. I don't think that camera is for me, seems like they compromised a couple things (like bottom loading and manual controls) to make it small.

I like both the hand helds (Z1, DVX, etc.) and the shoulder-mounts (small like the XL H1, HD100/110, etc.; large like DVCAM, DVCPro, HDCAM, etc.).

heath

Regarding camera size.

When I put my HC1 on a monopod with it's lens hood, including a wireless receiver, and a 6" LCD and a lanc on a seperate appendage, it became an impressive piece. I carried this throughout a hospital in one of my shoots and was stopped by security guards "are you a member of a news agency?", and drew the attention of many on lookers "whoa, look at that camera". Much of this attention I receive with a decked out XL1s on a rig.

Rip the HC1 camera down to it bare essentials, and your instant tourist. Zero attention. I know this because I brought that camera into the very same facility a week before to scout locations for the shoot.

On the other hand, I've taken my barebones XL1s to family events and became the center of attention where I wish I hadn't. Don't knock the size of the camera. Like a good meal, it not just the taste, but all in the presentation.

All Sony has to do to make a successor of the Z1 is to take all of the features of the V1 and stick em on the Z1, add HD-SDI and set the retail price to $7,000. Simple.

What's really funny are all the pictures of the mini SI-1920 from Silicon Imaging--it's a teeny, tiny little head with a big ol' lens, but it makes wonderful pictures.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=129

Don't let the size of a camera fool you anymore.

heath

All Sony has to do to make a successor of the Z1 is to take all of the features of the V1 and stick em on the Z1, add HD-SDI and set the retail price to $7,000. Simple.

At the risk of being a total geek, this reminds me of a point I reached over two decades ago: I got into recording live bands on a Walkman Pro (WM-D6C) with two ECM-55s. It worked really well, way beyond the usual of the time, a new way of using standard tech - bit like HDV. Then comes mini-disk. I tried it, had some bad experiences, binned it, missed the bandwagon.

The Z1 is the Walkman Pro. We're waiting for the mini-disc (AVC?), but Sony will twiddle with the Walkman Pro spec yet never achieve the balance and assertive feature set established at get-go. All this is stalling for the next 'big thing'.

As a Z1 owner, I envy the 20x lens and progressive scan of the V1, beam confidently about my Z1 image quality in SD, but I remember the jump between Cassette and Mini-Disc. Sony's answer to the new Canon cameras is comforting, but I feel - with a Z1 - I can wait a little while longer.

If I were a PD150 owner looking to upgrade, though... Ouch.

But did someone mention 1/4" chips?

So how about a Z1 based DSR-250? 2/3" chips? Interchangable lenses? Oh right - DSR-450. With good glass, maybe the upconvert is better than HDV?

How can a true 1920x1080 signal going to the 25mbps minidv tape?
I hear, that pana hvx200 has P2 card because 25mbps wasnt enough for this resolution.