I'm slowly — very slowly — building my arsenal. I'm looking at adding wireless audio and have found this Azden lav/handheld set (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=3659&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation) at B&H, which I am considering. I'm a musician as well, so I'm not too dumb when it comes to things audio... however have zero, absolutely no experience with anything by Azden.

Is this a good package that I will be happy with for a long time, or am I going to be looking to upgrade as soon as I possibly can? With some Audio-Technica sets (mind you, with only the lav) being only slightly more expensive, should I go for those instead? I figure, if B&H is carrying them, they can't be worthless pieces of s***, right?

I've never used wireless before, so this is new territory for me. Any tips of what to look for and what to avoid would be greatly appreciated.

I'm slowly — very slowly — building my arsenal. I'm looking at adding wireless audio and have found this Azden lav/handheld set (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=3659&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation) at B&H, which I am considering. I'm a musician as well, so I'm not too dumb when it comes to things audio... however have zero, absolutely no experience with anything by Azden.

Is this a good package that I will be happy with for a long time, or am I going to be looking to upgrade as soon as I possibly can? With some Audio-Technica sets (mind you, with only the lav) being only slightly more expensive, should I go for those instead? I figure, if B&H is carrying them, they can't be worthless pieces of s***, right?

I've never used wireless before, so this is new territory for me. Any tips of what to look for and what to avoid would be greatly appreciated.


While I don't have any direct experience with Azden, I have to say they don't have the best of reputations, especially in their budget lines (which this definitely is!) Consider, entry level pro-grade systems from Sennheiser, Sony, AKG, Audio Technica start at about $500 for a single transmitter/receiver pair. Systems from folks like Lectro can start at upwards of $1500 and go up from there. Yet here we see a mic with transmitter, a bodypack transmitter, and a receiver all for only $150. Remember TANSTAAFL - There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.

While I don't have any direct experience with Azden, I have to say they don't have the best of reputations, especially in their budget lines (which this definitely is!)

What is their reputation?

As an aside, I used to live in Hamilton before moving to the US (will be moving back within a year, likely to Toronto). Nice to see someone from home on here.

What is their reputation?

As an aside, I used to live in Hamilton before moving to the US (will be moving back within a year, likely to Toronto). Nice to see someone from home on here.

As I said, don't have any direct experience with them but the comments I've read from folks who have rate Azden's top of the line gear as okay, not outstanding but usable, but the rest is only so-so.

One thing that can be an important factor with any brand of wireless is whether the frequency band is VHF or UHF. UHF is a bit more expensive but is definitely preferrable as it is superior in range, freedom from interference (always a problem with wireless), and in general delivers better audio. But the system in the link you posted is VHF.

The lowest price is not always the most economical choice and for serious work I think you'll be looking to upgrade pretty quickly, ending up spending more money than if you'd gone with a higher quality system from the start.

What is their reputation?
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Azden doesn't have a great reputation among serious audio geeks, or even among video professionals. They make products for a specific niche, but overall, their electronic products are pretty noisy, and their mics as a general comment, aren't terribly good sounding.
Beware any company that puts a "zoom" switch on a shotgun mic. :-)

Beware any company that puts a "zoom" switch on a shotgun mic. :-)You mean like AT with their "tele" switch on the ATR55? :D

Just kidding Spot, that's obviously not a professional-grade mic by anyone's definition, and no real reflection on AT's higher-end stuff.

Speaking of AT though... Mike, you might want to have a look at the AT pro 88w. It is still a VHF system, but it's better than most due to the fact that the signal isn't compressed in transmission. It can be had for anywhere between $115-$180 or so, and gets relatively high marks from most people, for what it is. At the extreme low end of the price spectrum, I think most here and elsewhere would agree that this system is the best bet. You don't get a handheld like you would with the Azden system, but like Steve and Spot have been saying, it's best to stay as far away from Azden as you can get.

You mean like AT with their "tele" switch on the ATR55? :D

Just kidding Spot, that's obviously not a professional-grade mic by anyone's definition, and no real reflection on AT's higher-end stuff.
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LOL, I forgot that was still in the product. Yeah, that worries me. Consumers, I guess, assume that since they have a 'zoom' lens, they need a 'zoom' microphone too. Yikes.

Mike, look to Rode, AT, and Sennheiser for good, low cost shotguns if that's what you're after. I like the smoothness of the AT 897, the sensitivity of the Senn 66, and the mix of the two in the Rode NGT2. Overall, the 897 has the best sound, IMO, but is the least sensitive of the three options.

A good lavaliere microphone costs $250 (Tram). How can an entire system for $150 be a good bet? It's best to save your money until you can buy good components. Rent in the meanwhile, and package the cost into your jobs.

A good lavaliere microphone costs $250 (Tram). How can an entire system for $150 be a good bet? It's best to save your money until you can buy good components. Rent in the meanwhile, and package the cost into your jobs.


Actually, you'll be hard-pressed to find a system that *sounds* as good as the AT Pro88, simply because it's so cheap, there is no compander. Throw a decent mic on the transmitter, it's scary good. Just don't plan on going farther than 20 feet or so. It's VHF, non-diversity, and only offers 2 channels, but dang, it sounds AWESOME.

Outside of that, moving to a UHF, true diversity system is the only way to fly, IMO. Just don't get caught up in the BS of "We offer all these channels/frequencies" by some of the manufacturers. There are the same channels/frequencies for EVERYONE, it's like a freeway of fixed width. Dividing up channels only means that the lanes in the freeway get narrower, but the bandwidth stays the same. In other words, it doesn't work quite as easily as just adding channels.

Well, if you're limited to 20 feet, you're probably not in need of wireless - beside the range issues, VHF is probably more succeptible to interference vs. UHF, too. Why not spend your money on a very good Sony ECM-44 or some other quality wired lavaliere? I can see an argument in very specific cases, but those cases would have to be pretty specific.

A good lavaliere microphone costs $250 (Tram).Giant Squid's mono omnis are $30, and sound pretty freakin' good.

Well, if you're limited to 20 feet, you're probably not in need of wireless - beside the range issues, VHF is probably more succeptible to interference vs. UHF, too. Why not spend your money on a very good Sony ECM-44 or some other quality wired lavaliere? I can see an argument in very specific cases, but those cases would have to be pretty specific.I don't think the cases need to be all that specific. Say you don't have a boom operator and your talent is moving around a little. Or say you're shooting in a tiny space (like a car) where it's hard to hide a shotgun or hyper. There are all kinds of reasons to go with wireless beyond distance; I can think of tons of scenarios where you need mobility, or very close mic placement, or where placing a mic on a boom or stand just isn't practical. For use in narrative filmmaking, shooting at a large distance seems like the special circumstance to me. For events, it's a different story. Like everything else, it all depends on your situation and what kind of shoot you're doing.

I also just want to add that the pro88w isn't necessarily limited to 20 ft... A lot of times, you can, in fact, get a little more range than that. The transmitter can handle the distance, it's just that you're more likely to run into interference at longer distances.

If you're like me and live in a town where rental of higher-end stuff isn't an option, and would like to have at least some kind of wireless lav until you can afford a more expensive system (yeah, you'll pay more in the end, but the flipside is that you can work NOW and make the money to PAY for the more expensive stuff later), the the 88w is a pretty good setup. And like Spot said, it sounds really good.

A lot of action films use the ATPro88, that's where I came across them. They are disposable, allow the actor to be free of cabling, and work very, very well for short distances.
10 feet or 100 feet from a camera, you could *never* put a wired cable on me when I'm presenting, for example. I walk all over the floor and would have a cable mess inside of 2 minutes. I'd have no problem with someone using the best wireless they can afford on me for a presentation; they just need to know the risks of using a low-cost, FM system. VHF over distances is a serious risk, but frankly the industry got along just fine for many years using VHF systems. UHF, diversity systems are best of course, but if you're on a limited budget and your *talent* requires wireless, then get what you can. Ebay and other used sources are also great places to turn.

Remember that any wireless system is there for your TALENT'S convenience, not yours. Wireless should always be a last resort, not a first go-to.

...
If you're like me and live in a town where rental of higher-end stuff isn't an option, and would like to have at least some kind of wireless lav until you can afford a more expensive system (yeah, you'll pay more in the end, but the flipside is that you can work NOW and make the money to PAY for the more expensive stuff later), the the 88w is a pretty good setup. And like Spot said, it sounds really good.

Have you checked out Trew Audio in Nashville? One of the film industry's primo supply and rental houses and only 2 hours away from you. And I'm sure with all the film and broadcast production activity in the Atlanta area there must be several other sources there only 2 hours away in the other direction.

I don't think the cases need to be all that specific. Say you don't have a boom operator and your talent is moving around a little. Or say you're shooting in a tiny space (like a car) where it's hard to hide a shotgun or hyper. There are all kinds of reasons to go with wireless beyond distance; I can think of tons of scenarios where you need mobility, or very close mic placement, or where placing a mic on a boom or stand just isn't practical. For use in narrative filmmaking, shooting at a large distance seems like the special circumstance to me. For events, it's a different story. Like everything else, it all depends on your situation and what kind of shoot you're doing.

I also just want to add that the pro88w isn't necessarily limited to 20 ft... A lot of times, you can, in fact, get a little more range than that. The transmitter can handle the distance, it's just that you're more likely to run into interference at longer distances.

If you're like me and live in a town where rental of higher-end stuff isn't an option, and would like to have at least some kind of wireless lav until you can afford a more expensive system (yeah, you'll pay more in the end, but the flipside is that you can work NOW and make the money to PAY for the more expensive stuff later), the the 88w is a pretty good setup. And like Spot said, it sounds really good.
Fair enough. But in a car, a quality wired mic would probably be a better bet than a wireless anyway. Now, if you're outside the car with the camera/receiver, and the talent is inside the car, you're going to want something with more range, I'm sure.

If you often find yourself in a situation where you're shooting talent less than 20 ft. away, and they need to move, well, then, there you have your specific scenario that a mic system like this would make sense. It's not a versatile investment, though, and if money's tight, this will be your only microphone. You need it to be a versatile solution, I would think.

So, why not befriend another production company (certainly there is one in your hometown that owns a decent wireless system for EFP?), ask them for a deal, convince them you're not an animal and will carefully treat their gear well, and you never know... Like I said, package the rental price into the job. After a few good jobs, buy a good system, and don't waste your money on what sounds like a one-trick pony wireless setup. That is, unless you're in that niche where something like this makes sense. Worse comes to worst, you can rent from TAI or Trew or Location Sound.

A lot of action films use the ATPro88, that's where I came across them. They are disposable, allow the actor to be free of cabling, and work very, very well for short distances.
I don't think this will be a "disposable" system for this person. We're talking barely affording something here, so I don't think they plan on risking their gear like this all that often. Although, your point is well taken: there are probably more ways than I'm imagining where this system makes sense to have on-hand. Still, I'm thinking versatility on a budget, and this mic just wouldn't do it for me.

Steve--

Looking to Nashville or Atlanta are options to consider. Thanks. I tend to forget that I could rent from a house in another city. I'll definitely have to keep Trew in mind for shoots where the budget allows for equipment rental.

I do still think, though, that it's good to have some kind of wireless in your kit for the low-budget, spur-of-the-moment, general kinds of shooting situations, though. Until I can move up the ladder a bit, I'm happy with the 88w, with the knowledge that I could rent something better if I need to.

Thanks again.

I have the Azden wireless lapels, and I will say they work. Yep. I can't compare them to the higher priced/quality units, but they do work better than the on camera mic. I also have the ATR55 and will say the same about it. Coincidentally, plugging the ATR into the Azden bodypack will allow for budget wireless booming.

I don't think this will be a "disposable" system for this person. We're talking barely affording something here, so I don't think they plan on risking their gear like this all that often. Although, your point is well taken: there are probably more ways than I'm imagining where this system makes sense to have on-hand. Still, I'm thinking versatility on a budget, and this mic just wouldn't do it for me.

FWIW, the Pro88w isn't a mic; it's a wireless system that you can adapt most any dynamic mic to work with.
We keep a bunch of them around for emergencies, and they're really good to use for boom op headset feeds as well.
That said, we have six Senn G systems in a rack, 14 AT systems (various models) in racks, and a couple Lectrosonics systems in a dual rack. There are also some old Sony, and a couple Sony UWP systems. We're definitely not wireless-shy here.

Yeah, I figured it was a wireless system. Just mispoke.

I know I go against the grain on audio quite a bit here but I just wanted to stop in and say that I have one of the 100LT kits. Frankly mine has been doing a good job for me. The first day I had it I had to sub it for a failing Lectosonics unit costing thousands that was getting some sort of odd interferance from something at 2 camera speach I was shooting. Saved the day with no noise (to my ears) and was a great backup. My projects are small and quite limited but these work at a reasonable range. I really wish they did a better job on the mics however. Shure would be nice to have removable wind screens, and the ones on the mic elements are pretty hard to hide, they're really big.

They have a nicer dual channel receiver now as well.

This is what I have:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=287689&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

Sean

I love these boards, someone asks "I need an affordable wireless mic setup, suggestions?"
And everyone one starts in with "get the lectrosonics 100 setup... but ditch the lav that comes with it and get the countryman! oh don't forget you'll need the transmitter for your RE50B."

Grant it Azden is cheap, but works when your in a pinch.
The AW88 is not to shabby in the affordable but cheap department.

Using a cabled Lav isn't a bad idea, but on the GL2 you'll have to buy a Beachtek XLR adapter or similar device (more $$$)
When I worked as a ENG op the station used the Azden's for broadcast.. Lol

It's like buying a guitar package for your son. You aren't buying him a 57' strat for his first guitar are ya? No, your buying that for you! But the beginner package will get him going so he can get the 57'

While I'm still new to DV, I have a Canon GL2 and have a starter set of Azden mics - lavelier and handheld. The sound has not disappointed me and they have performed well. I will, however, upgrade as I progress.

Constance

I have the Azden WR22-PRO VHF Dual Channel Receiver and a few Lav mics and a Handheld. It works for what I do in small rooms but I have noticed that I tend to get static if I am using both channels, in a room with people with lots of cell phones (IE everywhere) If I am just doing a Single mic I havent really had any issues as of yet. Sound is decent and it didnt cost me an arm and a leg really as I got half of the kit for free. I am looking to upgrade to a better UHF system and The Azden kit has my attention I am also looking around at other companies. I need to be able to get at least 2 mics in use at the same tie and would like to have just one receiver on my camera as it is heavy enough all ready as well as not spend $2000 if possible. In the mean time this cheap wireless setup has easily earned its own price tag and helped fund the next upgrade.

Hello,

I'm in a similar search (a wireless system for interviews in a broadcast but cheap (i'm freelance) context).
Any experience about this system from AT : http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=9450&A=details&Q=&sku=177186&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

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Audio-Technica ATWU101830 Camera Mountable UHF Diversity Lavalier System with ATWT101 Transmitter, ATWR100 Receiver and MT830cT5 Microphone
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I use a XL2, I want a good sound (not "the definitive great sound" , just a good one, for most of my interview work I use a handhelp AT ATM31a and I'm very happy with it for example.

Another question, what will be the difference between this sytem and a Pro88 (the price is 150 for the Pro88 and 500 for the ATWU101) is the difference in sound quality/convenience worth the difference in price ?

Thanks in advance.

I have some experience with this system. The receiver takes two 9V batteries, and goes through them quickly. If you're using two identical systems together, you're going through 6 batteries every 5 hours or so (2 in each receiver, 1 in each transmitter). That gets pretty pricey, not to mention painful for the crew and talent during those poorly timed battery changes.

The transmitter has the TA5F connector, which is the same sported by the Lectrosonics gear. It's a particularly good connector, with lots of pre-wired options available among the cream-of-the-crop lavs such as the Tram TR-50, Sankens and Countrymen. So, I view that as a professional feature, and a major plus.

The audio quality is good, although there always seems to be a bit of hiss introduced (this is imperceptible to most people, but discerning ears can always pick it out, until you mix with music and perhaps other soundtrack). It's hard to accidentally change the channel, and you get 100 to choose from, so you're almost guaranteed to find something free no matter where you are. If you only work in one regional area, you're likely to find a free frequency and never change the channel after that. Range is not particularly good, perhaps about 60-70% of a diversity UHF Lectro (although I haven't really tested this - I'm just estimating based on real-world performance). The transmitter is a bit large and heavy, but it's nothing that most talent will complain about. The mute switch position on the transmitter is totally unnecessary, and easy to engage, which can confuse a veteran sound recordist.

To me, the biggest feature of this system is the price. It's an unrivaled deal, really. You get some major professional features - a rugged system that has professional input and outputs (XLR), but costs less than half of the lower end options from Lectrosonics. For $1,000, you get two complete systems. That's less than you would spend on one complete Lectrosonics setup.

Don't skimp on the lavalier. The one on this deal (above) is decent. But don't underestimate the importance of the mounting options. The Tram is hard to beat in this area. Also, invest in short XLR cables with an elbow at the female end. No matter what your setup (audio bag, mount on camera, whatever), you'll be glad you have that cable. And if you get this setup, buy plenty of professional 9V batteries, or save a bundle down the line and get a BDS power setup to run the receiver(s) and mixer. Then, you'll only need 9Vs for the transmitter(s).

If you're running audio only a few times a month, this might be the best compromise system for you. But anything more than that, you'll probably be happier in the long run wth a Lectro - maybe a used unit from the likes of Trew or Tai.

A feature of the AT Pro88 I find useful is that it allows microphones other than the included lav to be connected to its transmitter.

Mike, I have an Azden 500 UDR UHF wireless mic system, It has a sony ECM 44 lav mic that I use with the transmitter. It works and sounds great. I use it on every shoot, it's very reliable. The transmitter and receiver cost about $550.

I have some experience with this system. The receiver takes two 9V batteries, and goes through them quickly. If you're using two identical systems together, you're going through 6 batteries every 5 hours or so (2 in each receiver, 1 in each transmitter). That gets pretty pricey, not to mention painful for the crew and talent during those poorly timed battery changes.

The transmitter has the TA5F connector, which is the same sported by the Lectrosonics gear. It's a particularly good connector, with lots of pre-wired options available among the cream-of-the-crop lavs such as the Tram TR-50, Sankens and Countrymen. So, I view that as a professional feature, and a major plus.

The audio quality is good, although there always seems to be a bit of hiss introduced (this is imperceptible to most people, but discerning ears can always pick it out, until you mix with music and perhaps other soundtrack). It's hard to accidentally change the channel, and you get 100 to choose from, so you're almost guaranteed to find something free no matter where you are. If you only work in one regional area, you're likely to find a free frequency and never change the channel after that. Range is not particularly good, perhaps about 60-70% of a diversity UHF Lectro (although I haven't really tested this - I'm just estimating based on real-world performance). The transmitter is a bit large and heavy, but it's nothing that most talent will complain about. The mute switch position on the transmitter is totally unnecessary, and easy to engage, which can confuse a veteran sound recordist.

To me, the biggest feature of this system is the price. It's an unrivaled deal, really. You get some major professional features - a rugged system that has professional input and outputs (XLR), but costs less than half of the lower end options from Lectrosonics. For $1,000, you get two complete systems. That's less than you would spend on one complete Lectrosonics setup.

Don't skimp on the lavalier. The one on this deal (above) is decent. But don't underestimate the importance of the mounting options. The Tram is hard to beat in this area. Also, invest in short XLR cables with an elbow at the female end. No matter what your setup (audio bag, mount on camera, whatever), you'll be glad you have that cable. And if you get this setup, buy plenty of professional 9V batteries, or save a bundle down the line and get a BDS power setup to run the receiver(s) and mixer. Then, you'll only need 9Vs for the transmitter(s).

If you're running audio only a few times a month, this might be the best compromise system for you. But anything more than that, you'll probably be happier in the long run wth a Lectro - maybe a used unit from the likes of Trew or Tai.

Thanks a lot Eric for this very complete experience report !!

Luc

Does anyone know if you can use a stereo lav with the Pro 88w system? Someone told me that only a mono lav can be used with this and that bit of information came from a questionable source. So if anyone has an answer to this question, I'm all ears :-)

you can certainly use one half of the stereo lav, but the Pro88 is only mono.

Spot,

Would would you suggest with regard to upgrading the lav that is supplied with the Pro-88W?