David, I just bought a Centrino Duo laptop running 1.2gig ram 1.7ghz dual cpu, a 5400rpm 80gb drive latest premiere 2 and aspect...I can't playback cineform files in windows media player or premiere without dropped frames all the time, is this the CPU? or the drive or the graphics card?

CPU reads 50% when playing on the timeline using no effects on the 720p clips at 23.976fps...

I hope it's the drive and I hope a 7200rpm drive will solve this...will it?

what about using a SATA PCI-EXPRESS card for running raid boxes outside of the system? would this help?

Post moved, from the wrong thread.

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720p24 footage is likely under 8 MBytes/s, so you the drive shouldn't be the issue. We don't normally recommend anything sub-2GHz but 720p24 is really easy, which suggests a configuration issue. Hopefully the laptop doesn't have shared graphics memory, as that can hurt performance. If a dual core system reads 49-51% on playback that can mean it is only using one thread/core. Find C:\Program Files\Common Files\CineForm\CFDecode2.ax (this is the threaded decoder) and make sure is it registered (run -- regsvr32 C:\Program Files\Common Files\CineForm\CFDecode2.ax) or simply uninstall and then reinstall Aspect HD.

is it normal to run 1.2GB of ram when you have a project with 2 clips that are 3 min each open and on the timeline? that seems a bit steep on the ram usage...or is that normal and I should go get yet more ram(I have 1.2 GB)??

says the file can't be found when I try and Reg it as above stated

says the specified module can't be found, even though I am looking at the .ax file in the folder you say its in. ideas?

If the file is missing is will not work very well. :) Reinstall Aspect HD.

Premiere Pro is a memory hog, and we like a little memory also. If your memory usage is at 1.2GB before you hit play, that is an issue (remove all you widgets and other memory sucking freeware.) My XP system with Premiere Pro 2.0 will use between 700-800M for simple projects (after it caches frames -- which Premiere does.) Playback memory usage can be controlled will the playback settings slider.

try again
regsvr32 "C:\Program Files\Common Files\CineForm\CFDecode2.ax"

There was a typo in the earlier post.

sits at 900MB without playing, I did reinstall aspect and still when I run regsvr32 is throws the same error

39% cpu usage running windows media player using a cineform 23.976fps file, still dropping frames, and I had luck with the reg32, said it was a success...argggg..what could it be?

fyi I am reading 1536kbps on the file I am playing...

You are still trying with the original typo (there is no 'r' in CFDecode2.ax.)

I am running the Premiere Pro 2 TRIAL if that means anything and my new machine is a DELL Insiron E1705

Obin,

Please slow down. You work at a 150 miles an hour, you will make mistakes at that speed, it is no wonder you hit some power-poles occasionally (I just saw your movie with that punchline was in the Atom Films newsletter.) Only going to post one more time before getting on the road myself. So for some reason you laptop sucks in performance, yet if your CPU is only now saying 39% usage, then that is not the issue (if you had told be that in the first place I would have you playing with the registry.) Please I need concise data, not esitmates. Run Sisoftware Sandra to confirm the drive is not failing and/or producing a very poor data rate. What is the data rate of the file? Is it 960x720 or 1280x720? Do you have and know how to use Graphedit? What frame rate is the video presenting at (as it is dropping frames)?

1280x720 and the datarate of the file is above

It uses 50-59% CPU while rendering a premiere pro color curve

Playback of video does not look like it's dropping frames in premiere, but I can see dropped frames in Windows media player

After re-start of laptop And opening the same project again it's now reading 500-90MG ram usage 500while still 900 while playing, so that is better then it was before restart

running sisoft now....

SiSoftware Sandra

Benchmark Results
Drive Index : 34 MB/s
Results Interpretation : Higher index values are better.
Random Access Time : 20 ms
Results Interpretation : Lower index values are better.

Performance Test Status
Run ID : OBINLAPTOP on Monday, August 28, 2006 at 8:30:59 PM
Processor Affinity : No
System Timer : 3.6MHz
Use Overlapped I/O : Yes
IO Queue Depth : 4 request(s)
Block Size : 1MB

Volume Information
Capacity : 73GB

Benchmark Breakdown
Speed at position 0% : 30MB/s (88%)
Speed at position 3% : 34MB/s (100%)
Speed at position 6% : 31MB/s (90%)
Speed at position 10% : 31MB/s (91%)
Speed at position 13% : 33MB/s (97%)
Speed at position 16% : 31MB/s (90%)
Speed at position 20% : 30MB/s (89%)
Speed at position 23% : 31MB/s (90%)
Speed at position 26% : 30MB/s (89%)
Speed at position 30% : 29MB/s (86%)
Speed at position 33% : 31MB/s (91%)
Speed at position 36% : 27MB/s (80%)
Speed at position 40% : 28MB/s (83%)
Speed at position 43% : 30MB/s (87%)
Speed at position 46% : 27MB/s (79%)
Speed at position 50% : 26MB/s (77%)
Speed at position 53% : 28MB/s (82%)
Speed at position 56% : 26MB/s (75%)
Speed at position 60% : 24MB/s (72%)
Speed at position 63% : 24MB/s (71%)
Speed at position 66% : 24MB/s (72%)
Speed at position 70% : 25MB/s (75%)
Speed at position 73% : 25MB/s (72%)
Speed at position 76% : 23MB/s (68%)
Speed at position 80% : 22MB/s (64%)
Speed at position 83% : 22MB/s (65%)
Speed at position 86% : 21MB/s (62%)
Speed at position 90% : 19MB/s (55%)
Speed at position 93% : 19MB/s (57%)
Speed at position 96% : 18MB/s (52%)
Speed at position 100% : 16MB/s (49%)
Random Access Time : 20 ms (estimated)
Full Stroke Access Time : 19 ms (estimated)

Performance Tips
Notice 5008 : To change benchmarks, click Options.
Notice 5004 : Synthetic benchmark. May not tally with 'real-life' performance.
Notice 5006 : Only compare the results with ones obtained using the same version!
Tip 2 : Double-click tip or press Enter while a tip is selected for more information about the tip.

SiSoftware Sandra

Benchmark Results
Integer x8 iSSE2 : 26924 it/s
Float x4 iSSE2 : 36679 it/s
Results Interpretation : Higher index values are better.

Performance Test Status
Run ID : OBINLAPTOP on Monday, August 28, 2006 at 8:34:17 PM
NUMA Support : No
SMP Test : No
Total Test Threads : 2
Multi-Core Test : Yes
Cores per Processor : 2
SMT Test : No
Dynamic MP/MT Load Balance : No
Processor Affinity : P0C0T0 P0C1T0
System Timer : 3.6MHz
Rendered Image Size : 640x480

Processor
Model : Genuine Intel(R) CPU T2250 @ 1.73GHz
Speed : 1.73GHz
Performance Rating : PR5878 (estimated)
Cores per Processor : 2 Unit(s)
Type : Mobile, Dual-Core
L2 On-board Cache : 2MB ECC Synchronous, ATC, 8-way set, 64 byte line size, 2 threads sharing

Features
(W)MMX Technology : Yes
SSE Technology : Yes
SSE2 Technology : Yes
SSE3 Technology : Yes
SSE4 Technology : No
EMMX - Extended MMX Technology : No
3DNow! Technology : No
Extended 3DNow! Technology : No
HTT - Hyper-Threading Technology : No

Performance Tips
Notice 5008 : To change benchmarks, click Options.
Notice 5004 : Synthetic benchmark. May not tally with 'real-life' performance.
Notice 5006 : Only compare the results with ones obtained using the same version!
Warning 5009 : Mobile processors yield lower indexes in power management modes. Check power settings if index is low.
Tip 2 : Double-click tip or press Enter while a tip is selected for more information about the tip.

TMI. Disk looks fine though. Sounds Premiere is now working fine anyway. If MediaPlayer is glitching it might be because you didn't go for the graphics module. Nothing more I can add. I'm now hitting the road.

Obin,

I used to have that exact same laptop with the T2400 1.83GHz Core Duo and X1400 Radeon GPU. My CineForm 720p/59.94fps AVI files would playback between 50 and 55fps.

Therefore this notebook can definitely do what you want it to do, provided the spec is right...

Questions/Notes/Observations/Suggestions:

1. Do you have a dedicated graphics card installed or the Intel integrated solution? The latter is not good news for CineForm performance.
2. Your CPU is the slower 533MHz FSB version. CineForm performance thrives on a faster FSB, so this will definitely have an effect. However, I still see no reason why you should not be able to run at full speed/ 24fps.
3. Download Graphedit from here (http://www.digital-digest.com/dvd/downloads/showsoftware_graphedit_141.html). Open it and drag and drop your CFHD AVI onto the graphedit window. Which CineForm decoder module is being used to run the footage? CineForm Decoder, Decoder-2? Which?

This should give us a much better idea of what's going on.

HA, This is news. It does not drop any frames on playback in the graphedit proggy, read's 23.976 fps playback and 0 dropped.....

using decoder 2

I am using windows media player 11 could that be a problem?

Intel(R) Graphics Media Accelerator Driver for Mobile Report


Report Date: 08/29/2006
Report Time[hr:mm:ss]: 09:34:07
Driver Version: 6.14.10.4446
Operating System: Windows XP* Professional, Service Pack 2 (5.1.2600)
Default Language: English
DirectX* Version: 9.0
Physical Memory: 1270 MB
Minimum Graphics Memory: 8 MB
Maximum Graphics Memory: 224 MB
Graphics Memory in Use: 15 MB
Processor: x86 family 6 Model 14 Stepping 8
Processor Speed: 1729 MHZ
Vendor ID: 8086
Device ID: 27A2
Device Revision: 03


* Accelerator Information *

Accelerator in Use: Mobile Intel(R) 945GM Express Chipset Family
Video BIOS: 1264
Current Graphics Mode: 1920 by 1200 True Color (60 Hz)



* Devices Connected to the Graphics Accelerator *


Active Notebook Displays: 1


* Notebook *

Monitor Name: Plug and Play Monitor
Display Type: Digital
Gamma Value: 3.54
DDC2 Protocol: Supported
Maximum Image Size: Horizontal: Not Available
Vertical: Not Available
Monitor Supported Modes:
640 by 480 (60 Hz)
800 by 600 (60 Hz)
1024 by 768 (60 Hz)
1920 by 1200 (60 Hz)
Display Power Management Support:
Standby Mode: Supported
Suspend Mode: Supported
Active Off Mode: Supported


* SDVO Encoder Report *

** Encoder 1 **
Vendor ID: Silicon Image
Device ID: 170
Device Revision: 3
Major Version: 1
Minor Version: 1

* Other names and brands are the property of their respective owners.

Well the jury's out on the Intel accelerator. It's not a dedicated graphics chip, and integrated solutions on desktop boards are notoriously poor for playing back CineForm content.

However, a colleague of mine has one of the dinky XPS M1210s with a T7400 Core 2 Duo/Merom and the same graphics processor as you and he's able to play some of my 720p/60 clips without sound and video falling out of sync. I almost fell out of my chair when I heard that result.

Your CPU, even with the lower FSB, should easily be able to cope with 24fps content and if you are running Decoder-2, that means playback is using both cores.

As you suspect, this does tend to suggest it's a problem with Media Player 11, especially if GraphEdit can playback your clips at full speed.

Give Media Player Classic (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=82303&package_id=84358) a go and see how you get on. You'll want the second file down, the one with almost a million downloads.


EDIT: One thing I am noticing with really challenging content is that GraphEdit runs footage extremely cleanly whereas Media Player and even Media Player Classic have some performance issues.

It does a bit better then windows media player, still it seems to skip a frame here and there...what the heck is going on?

I mean this is 24fps 720p..this is EASY stuff to play, or sure should be!

WHen I play it more then once it seems to work better. but still dropping frames!

70-80% cpu usage while playing

Audio: PCM 48000Hz stereo 1536Kbps [output]
Video: CFHD 1280x720 23.98fps 58581Kbps [Video 0]
Audio: PCM 48000Hz stereo 1536Kbps [Audio 1]

above taken from the media player properties

here is the weird part. the new player does not show dropped frames when I turn Stats on under "view", but I can see missing frames as it plays, it's not smooth, I can see missing frames...what the heck?

You probable dealing with the integrated graphics no being able to refresh the display. When you use integrated graphics, HD bandwidth suck cycles away for the rest of the computer. Can you return the laptop?, I did the first I accidental purchased a laptop without separate graphics memory.

aaa haaaa! that sounds like it!! so I will send it back and get an Invida card?

would an ATI card be ok? it's $90 instead of $300 extra for the Nvidia!!

Obin,

The 7900GS you can specify for the Dell is an excellent graphics card, one of the most powerful money can buy. However, as I said, even the base dedicated graphics card - the Radeon X1400 - is perfectly adequate for CineForm playback as I do not believe any of the 3D rendering technology is being used.

Indeed, my desktop machine is using a 128mb Radeon X300SE which I bought from eBay for £15.

If you're re-speccing your machine, may I suggest a T7200 Core 2 Duo? The leap from Core Duo to Core 2 Duo is absolutely immense with CineForm technology.


Richard

I am on the phone with Dell right now..;) does the ATI card have issues with CIneFOrm...I know some software likes some graphics cards..does cineform say anything about that??

also the ATI has 128 onboad and shares 128MB ram...is that ok??

need answer FAST on phone now with dell..thanks!!

Obin,

I had no issues with the X1400 even with the shared memory (only used for 3D games requiring lots of texture memory).

While you are there, see if you can get a good deal on a Core 2 Duo - even the T7200 is an immense CPU for CineForm playback.

awesome! thanks for FAST reply!! BTW I have the Core Do, it's good seems as fast almost as my AMD dual opteron system at the studio!

BTW can you upgrade the CPU at a later date if you want to on this machine?

Yes, it's a relatively pain-free operation. I bought a Dell Inspiron XPS M1710 with a 2.0GHz Core Duo and transplanted in a 2.16GHz Core 2 Duo with no problems whatsoever. It's a 15 minute job - just make sure you have some thermal paste handy.

With regards CPU performance, my Core 2 Duo is about 18% faster at CineForm encoding than my Athlon X2 4400 desktop system. It's a phenomenal achievement.

What do you think of the $1400 quote they gave for

1GB ram
1.7dual core duo
17inch 1920x1200 display
Nvidia go 79gs
120gb hard disk
wifi and blue tooth

It's a great deal - a fantastic one, in fact - though I'd still prefer not to have a 533MHz FSB CPU when the 667MHz FSB chips are there to be had.

well...if it gets the job done NOW I can upgrade later on right?? I don't need a SUPER HUMAN machine, just want to edit a bit and do some AE work ;)

Glad to have helped - there really is nothing that can match a CineForm AVI in all its glory being played back on a notebook. I am still a little bewildered that you had problems at all playing back a 720p/24 file.

I've been having issues playing my more extreme clips on my laptop (720p/60, High-HD Optimised, ultra-detailed video games footage) and neither Media Player nor Media Player Classic can handle them without glitching.

Curiously, GraphEdit plays them flawlessly! I can imagine Media Player bloatware causing performance issues, but Media Player Classic is usually fine...

Does that laptop have 'Speed Step' technology? The type that reduces the CPU speed when running off batteries? If so, go into the BIOS and disable it. My laptop, an older Dell Inspiron 5150 with a 3.06ghz HT P4 had problems playing back DV avi's without dropping frames.. It was ridiculous! A call to Dell did not help any. They had no idea. Anyway, I disabled the Hyper Threading.. That improved things, but would return to dropping frames once the computer was on for about 10 minutes or more. Then I disabled the Speed Step. That fixed it!

Yes, the Core Duo and Core 2 Duo is based on SpeedStep for its power-saving and superb battery life. While it is conceivable that this would cause frame loss on CineForm playback, it doesn't explain why playback is flawless using GraphEdit...

That means that when it's on power outlet it is FULL speed? IT does not help when I plug it in....I have the new on on the way, will see how that does. man the core duo is FASSSSTTTT

No, it still uses SpeedStep when it's plugged into the mains. If you go into the Power options under control panel, you might be able to change that.

However, I honestly have severe doubts it's a SpeedStep issue for the reasons I have already pointed out.