I'm happy withe Microtrack. As I've posted in other threads, I bought the Marantz 660 first but found it's mic level inputs too noisy to be used for recording voice over interviews. The Microtrack is fine for that purpose. I've been using it with an old wired Sennheiser lav, with an XLR-1/4" adapter. I've recently bought a Sennheiser wireless, the 100 series which sounds amazingly good for such a cheap ($500) wireless.

The Microtrack is a little strange, but once you get accustomed to it, it's OK. You may, for example, think it's charging its battery when plugged in to a USB port, but that isn't happening, and if you leave it plugged in to the USB, it stays on and drains power. I don't have any problem with the internal battery life, but if you plan on recording really long sessions, it might be a good idea to get one of those little USB battery packs. I've seen one at Comprehensive for under 10 bucks that uses AA batteries.

Had I not needed the recorder in a hurry, I would have waited till that new Fostex is available (December). It's the same price and looks the same as the Marantz 660, but presumably it would be useable for normal recording. I checked out the HD-P2 thoroughly and almost bought it, but I wanted to keep things compact for my immediate purposes. We have an older Tascam that looks just like the P2 but is DAT. It's been a great recorder, used for live concert recording as well as shooting double system for video. If I needed to use the Microtrack for double system shooting, I would do so with no hesitation.

The zoom sounds like a good deal if you don't use a mixer (xlr inputs and phantom). But I also bought a Sounddevices 302, so I just run line out into the Edirol when I need phantom and xlr's.
Bruce S. yarock
www.yarock.com

Recently, for larger events I have been using my MicroTrack recorder and a Tascam firewire mixer in combination. The Tascam (FW-1082, which I am very happy with) records the five channels I typically use to a laptop. Meanwhile, I use the MicroTrack to capture the monitor output with the MicroTrack. That way, I have a stereo mix on a second device, which is not just handy if I need sound samples from the event right away, but it also gives me piece of mind in that I know I have a backup should something go wrong with the laptop computer or its software during the recording. After all, stereo sound is way better than no sound at all, should something go very wrong during a live event.

- Martin

The zoom sounds like a good deal if you don't use a mixer (xlr inputs and phantom). But I also bought a Sounddevices 302, so I just run line out into the Edirol when I need phantom and xlr's.
Bruce S. yarock
www.yarock.com
I use a (PSC Promix 3) field mixer on certain location shoots like live concert and dance rectitals. And I do the same for my Edirol (run line out), with great results.
But there are many times I want to a much smaller setup and use my matched pair of Rode NT5 mics, which require phantom power or even 2 different feeds (1 board and 1 mic), and the H4 would fit these situations better.

I usually attach my recorder directyl onto a mic stand by using a clamp then either place 2 mics 1 wireless (to my camera) and 1 to my recorder.

By having both left and right inputs, I am able to then take 1 feed from the board, 1 feed of ambiant live crowd mix to my recorder. Then still have my wireless handheld going into my camera.

That is one thing I do like about the Microtrack over the R-09, is that you have separate L/R inputs that are independantl adjustable.

That is one thing I do like about the Microtrack over the R-09, is that you have separate L/R inputs that are independantl adjustable.


Does the Zoom have L and R independantly
adjustable gain?

Does the Zoom have L and R independantly
adjustable gain?
According to the manual, it does have independantly adjustable L/R Gain input. the only disadvantge is that it's done internally in the menu, and not on the acutal unit itself like the Microtrack.

Just to add to all this: I recently bought a HiMD MZ-RH1 and I can't say enough good things about it.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=441521&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

It has a rugged aluminum casing (both sides), records uncompressed at 16 bit 44.1 and the recordings are unrestricted, although you do have to use the Sony software, which stinks. It works on a Mac as well, but only for self made recordings.

The best thing though is the controls. All of the buttons are large and easy to find without even looking at the unit. I especially love the record button. The gain controls are excellent as well. You could easily ride them if you had to. The display is on the edge, so I velcro to the outside of my SD302 bag (there's already a patch of 'furry' velcro there for the transparent flap that covers the face) and can see both meters at a glance. It remembers all your settings so once you set it up, it's ready to go and you don't have navigate any menus. We use an AD converter which fits beautifully in the lower part of the bag, and record via optical cable. This is one instance that breaks the rule of low cost, convenience and performance. You get all three with this unit. Can't vouch for the preamps, as like I said, we use an AD converter, but I'll bet it would sound great using the line in, something very easy to do with the 302, which has a dedicated output just for that.

It's all so perfect I'm sure Sony's going to kill off the format any day now. :)

Oh, one other thing -- a field swappable internal battery. Takes five seconds. Awesome.

How's that RH1 feel? Like flimsy plastic?
A solid feel to it?
Are the channels independently adjustable?

Hi everyone, new member here trying to line up all the ducks for a 3-hour conference room shoot this tuesday - I just received the micro-track from B&H, used it to do some room ambience checks at the specific conference room but I'm a bit concerned over the battery thing - has anyone who owns one actually recorded til it died? I've not been able to find a spec on battery life yet, may have to test that part myself in the next few days, since it would be much better NOT to have yet another cord plugged in.

Doing this shoot with consumer DV, both cams have AGC only (yuch) so plan to put a Senn G2/Tram lav on the main guy (instructor), an RE50 on other channel of the micro track, then a Rode Stereo Video mic on one DVcam and a Beachtek DXA-4p with ATM 897 shotgun on one channel and ATM-25 hypercardioid on the other. Will set one DV cam at one side of this fairly narrow room on a tall tripod and hand-hold the other one from other side of the room, so I can later do a "quasi" 2-cam thing in post, with at least one pair of "non-breathing" audio tracks to use.

Sorry for the long post, just don't want to blow this since we'll NOT get a second chance at this material - unless you see some glaring error in the above method, I only need a response to the following -

If you've done a "death rattle" battery test on the Micro-Track, I'd appreciate any comments - thanks... Steve

Nevermind - from here

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MicroTrack2496-main.html

"MicroTrack is powered via long-life lithium-ion batteries. You can record for approximately four to five hours on a single charge (or about three hours with phantom power engaged). Recharge the battery by simply connecting MicroTrack to a PC or Mac via USB, or using an optional power supply."

Sounds like my 3-hour shoot's within reasonable limits (no phantom required)... Steve

Steve my experience of manufacturers statements about probable battery life times for their equipment is that they're almost invariably hopelessly optimistic.
Lithium Ions tend not to reach full capacity until they've gone through 4 or 5 full charge/discharge cycles, so althouh you say that your read "4 to 5 hours" and you think it'll be a 3hour gig, that would.....have me quite concerned i'd run out of juice.

I'd think of a Plan B. - just a thought.

Good point Stu, and since this unit is the only one involved that has manual level control, even more reason for a plan "B" - which in this case is an extension cord to reach beyond the nearest outlet :=) , making the BATTERY my "plan B"...

BTW, it'll be interesting to see just how MUCH pumping/breathing the AGC's on my two Elura's do, since this conference room is on one side of a heavy manufacturing facility and there's a constant LF throb/hum in the room to keep the AGC awake (maybe) - at any rate, this scenario is a perfect use for the NR setup in Samplitude, which I've used in similar cases with excellent success

(Talk about yer serious "room tone")

Thanks for reminding me that most manufacturers seem to think more highly of their products than us poor end users do... Steve

Update on the Micro Track battery life - just ran it in record mode, battery only, with headphones monitoring at full volume, after messing around with gains/wireless stuff, etc - mess-around time plus recording time totaled about 3-1/4 hours (all in record mode with phones driven at full volume) - according to the battery indicator there was still a small amount of life left.

I'm thinking that with phones NOT connected it should meet the claims of M Audio (but I'm still taking an extension cord :=)

Other thing I found was that even a Rode video mic (mono one) doesn't really drive this thing very strong thru the mini input - I ended up cutting back on output from my Senn G2 a bit and using the TRS inputs (only way to use the +27 dB gain up feature) - worked fine; (Left/Lav, Right/Rode) still quite clean on playback(didn't listen on monitors, only phones) -

Using a 4 gig CF card @ 24/48 stereo, total record time reported is 3:55, with max per file of 1:55 (without doing the math, I'm assuming this is the fat32 size kicking in.)

One problem I had with this unit (aside from those already mentioned) is no way to mount it to anything - all that comes with it is a dumb little drawstring bag.

Being somewhat of a "mad scientist" type, I found a piece of scrap stainless steel plate (14 gauge), cut it into an "L" shape, drilled a hole in the narrow part of the "L", and bolted it to the unused handle rosette of my Bogen 501 tripod head - I then used a couple of 1/2" wide strips of industrial strength velchro to hold the Micro track to this bracket - this puts the unit right in front of me when I'm behind the camera. I made the mounting plate nice and smooth so there's no need to even remove it from the Microtrack, I just loosen the wing nut and slip it off the tripod.

Gig's day after tomorrow, hoping for a broken leg :=) ... Steve

"How's that RH1 feel? Like flimsy plastic?"

Not at all. It feels very sturdy and rugged. None of the buttons are flimsy either. The left and right audio tracks are not independently adjustable unfortunately.

by the way, b&h finally got zoom h4, so hopefully well get more info from our forum members...

by the way, b&h finally got zoom h4, so hopefully well get more info from our forum members...
My H4, sweetwater.com is on it's way to me as I write this.
I hope to have it sometime early next week, and have some feedback comparing the H4, and my R-09 and Microtrack for everyone in a week or so.

From a poster in another forum, it sounds like this thing is going to be the sweet.

Incredible, just had a look at the Zoom H4 on B&H, a 4 track digital recorder for $300....what a steal! I was going to buy the Edirol R-09 but have now changed my mind.

Thanks for the info!

Incredible, just had a look at the Zoom H4 on B&H, a 4 track digital recorder for $300....what a steal! I was going to buy the Edirol R-09 but have now changed my mind.

Thanks for the info!

You might want to check into the details on that.
I don't think it does 4 channels at once, if that
is a consideration for you.

Incredible, just had a look at the Zoom H4 on B&H, a 4 track digital recorder for $300....what a steal! I was going to buy the Edirol R-09 but have now changed my mind.

Thanks for the info!

You might want to check into the details on that.
I don't think it does 4 channels at once, if that
is a consideration for you.

Just checked the features on the B&H website and I quote:

"Four-Track Recording
Record Multiple Tracks, such as Vocal, Guitar, and Bass, Simultaneously"

So, it should do it but even without that feature its still a steal, it even comes inluded with a 128Mb SD card, all that for $299......

I do have a technical question regarding the output.

The Edirol R-09 has both 1/8" Stereo Mini Headphone/SPDIF Optical Out.

The Zoom H4 only has the 1/8 mini out.

How much of a technical, read quality, advantage is it to have SPDIF Optical Out as opposed to 1/8 mini???

I'm planning to buy the Edirol FA-66 Firewire interface that has an S/PDIF optical input.

Just checked the features on the B&H website and I quote:

"Four-Track Recording
Record Multiple Tracks, such as Vocal, Guitar, and Bass, Simultaneously"

So, it should do it but even without that feature its still a steal, it even comes inluded with a 128Mb SD card, all that for $299......
It won't do true 4 track recording.
You can select either stero recording to record to 2 tracks, or select 4 track recording to record to 2 tracks, and then record again to 2 tracks for mixdown. So you could record guitar. drums on 2 tracks, and then lay down the vocal to go along with it. Not a true 4 track recorder.

Michael L: has your unit arrived yet, and have you had a chance to put it through its paces..? Of interest to me are the unit's mic pre-amps' quality, the quality of the built-in mics themselves, and how much flexibility there is in adjusting the recording level (variable, or stepped..)?
Many thx,Rgds, Ross.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'd also love to know how reliable the phantom power is...

JP

Update on the Micro Track battery life - just ran it in record mode, battery only, with headphones monitoring at full volume, after messing around with gains/wireless stuff, etc - mess-around time plus recording time totaled about 3-1/4 hours (all in record mode with phones driven at full volume) - according to the battery indicator there was still a small amount of life left.

I'm thinking that with phones NOT connected it should meet the claims of M Audio (but I'm still taking an extension cord :=)

Other thing I found was that even a Rode video mic (mono one) doesn't really drive this thing very strong thru the mini input - I ended up cutting back on output from my Senn G2 a bit and using the TRS inputs (only way to use the +27 dB gain up feature) - worked fine; (Left/Lav, Right/Rode) still quite clean on playback(didn't listen on monitors, only phones) -

Using a 4 gig CF card @ 24/48 stereo, total record time reported is 3:55, with max per file of 1:55 (without doing the math, I'm assuming this is the fat32 size kicking in.)

One problem I had with this unit (aside from those already mentioned) is no way to mount it to anything - all that comes with it is a dumb little drawstring bag.

Being somewhat of a "mad scientist" type, I found a piece of scrap stainless steel plate (14 gauge), cut it into an "L" shape, drilled a hole in the narrow part of the "L", and bolted it to the unused handle rosette of my Bogen 501 tripod head - I then used a couple of 1/2" wide strips of industrial strength velchro to hold the Micro track to this bracket - this puts the unit right in front of me when I'm behind the camera. I made the mounting plate nice and smooth so there's no need to even remove it from the Microtrack, I just loosen the wing nut and slip it off the tripod.

Gig's day after tomorrow, hoping for a broken leg :=) ... Steve


Check out http://taperssection.com/index.php . There are lots of posts and links on how to add portable external power to the MT2496. As far as phantom power I plan on getting a Rode NTG-2 which allows you to put 2 aa batteries in it. Mainly for my HD100, but can be used with my MT2496 also.
The included stereo mic is pretty good for close up interviews. Surprised me at least.

Michael L: has your unit arrived yet, and have you had a chance to put it through its paces..? Of interest to me are the unit's mic pre-amps' quality, the quality of the built-in mics themselves, and how much flexibility there is in adjusting the recording level (variable, or stepped..)?
Many thx,Rgds, Ross.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I did receive my H4 yesterday, I did get a chance to play with it a little bit last night and this morning, not much as I would like as I had company come in from out of town.

Here's a quick synopsis:
1. The huild seems very sturdy. It's larger but more substantial than the Edirol R-09, and about the same size as the M-Audio Microtrack.

2. I like the quick push recording format buttons on the front of the unit. Makes for quick format selections. Once you start recording you can't change recording format, without stopping the recording process. (which is a good thing).

3. Recording is the same as the other units (R-09/Microtrack), push once to go into standby (button lights up and blinks) and once more to record (button stays lit). To stop recording you just push record again, and the file writes to the card. There is a slight 2 second delay to stop the recording after the button is pushed.

4. The menu, is more confusing than the R-09, but no more than the Microtrack.
You push the menu button to enter various modes. Here you can redo your recording format (default MP3 is 44/128), but you can change your bitrate in the menu to go up to 320 or VBR. It doesn't seem to allow you to select 48hz MP3. Also in the menu you can rename/delete files (easy to do), as well as setup your recording format (Stereo or 4 Track).

5. Press down on the menu button to enter your input menu.
Here you can:
a. Select, mic source (onboard, Dual channel (2 XLR inputs)),
b. Recording levels
c. Phantom power
d. Monitor (This is good. You can either have this set to OFF and you can only monitor the unit while it's recording, or select ON and be able to monitor your recording levels all the time, as well as setup your recording levels without having to put the unit in standby), Auto Gain (which I wouldn't use myself),
e. Mic Model (can only be set using the onboard mics. Select from 5 different manufactured mic characteristics)
f. Compressor/Limiter (As far as I can tell you can only use the built in limiters using the onboard mic).

6. Onboard mics:
I like the onboard mics better than the R-09, as they seem to be less sensative (more directional) and produce less noise than the R-09.
I also really like that you have the ability to set the Gain with a flip of a switch (L/M/H) depending on your recording situation.
L (Low, is for loud situations of line in recodring), M (Medium, is for moderate recoding situations, and H (High, is for very quiet situations, and produces the most white noise). I would most often use L or M settings using the onboard for reception live music recording. The L setting is very quiet and the M setting is pretty quiet as well. I would normally use an external mic on a mic stand and attach the recorder to the mic stand as well.

7. The level meters seemed a bit sluggish, and maybe that can be fixed in a firmware patch.

As I said I haven't really had a chance to see how it handles very loud reception situations. But from my quick tests, it seems that it would handles them with flying colors. Especially since the unit has auto onboard gain, where you can do a quick scan of your environment (Live band sound test), and the unit will use the onbaord limiters to prevent clipping, (Very nice).

I hope to get a chance to try out the oboard compared to the XLR inputs using my AT822, and my matched pair of Rode NT5's (With 48v phantom).
You can't adjust independant L/R channels using the onboard mic, but you can when you use external mics.

I am also going to see if I can do passthrough (like the Microtrack) to my wireless using the line output 1/8 port.

Check out http://taperssection.com/index.php . There are lots of posts and links on how to add portable external power to the MT2496. As far as phantom power I plan on getting a Rode NTG-2 which allows you to put 2 aa batteries in it. Mainly for my HD100, but can be used with my MT2496 also.
The included stereo mic is pretty good for close up interviews. Surprised me at least.

There are ways to get external power to the microtrack via YSB battery box, but it's generally a pain to do, as you have to account for another way to attach or mount your battery box to the unit.
This was one flaw with the MT recorders. I will be selling mine if anyone is intersted. Along with many custom built cables from Soundprofessionals.com.
It records and works great, but I already have an Edirol R-09 and now a Zoom H4 which I like better, and don't need 3 recorders.

There are ways to get external power to the microtrack via YSB battery box, but it's generally a pain to do, as you have to account for another way to attach or mount your battery box to the unit.
This was one flaw with the MT recorders. I will be selling mine if anyone is intersted. Along with many custom built cables from Soundprofessionals.com.
It records and works great, but I already have an Edirol R-09 and now a Zoom H4 which I like better, and don't need 3 recorders.

I just ordered this...
http://www.bixnet.com/5v7libapa.html

from bixnet.
If it works, it will not add much to the size or weight. For 69.99 it's worth checking out. I wouldn't get one of those big battery sleds, sort of defeats the purpose.

Joe, I saw the battery sleds, etc - ended up just using the internal battery since the gig got shorter before it started, ended up about 1:45 or so instead of 3 hours.

On the other hand, I had a really strange problem I've STILL to find time to chase down - the MT recorded the first hour fine, I hit record to stop it - changed both DV tapes and restarted, the MT STOPPED recording about 20 minutes into second hour. I hit record again, thinking I'd bumped it accidentally - the unit did NOTHING. Tried 2 more times, then became glad I had audio coming into both cams...

The unit STILL won't record, it looks like it is but no change in track time readout, it just increments file #'s, period. Oh, BTW the battery indicator showed about half power when this happened, it was 'way lower than that on my other test with no prob.

Tomorrow I'm gonna try a different flash card, maybe this low priced 4 gig card has a problem - at least, the two files I got were good - as for the rest of the sound, Samplitude's gonna get several of its goodies dusted off before I'm even close to happy (background noise, + pumping of camera's AGC mainly)

Soon as I find out why the little bugger quit I'll be back... Steve

OK, quick update on the "on strike" syndrome - I tried a different CF card, records OK. Tried the "bad" card (Sandisk standard type1, 4 gb), and STILL no record - unit would "pretend" to record, but no time increment and when I pushed the record button again, it would claim to be "writing file", then would revert to showing just the two files already ON the card. Checked this card in a different reader/computer, and it showed less than half full.

I then reformatted that card (in the MT2496) and tried to record - IT WORKED.

Wierd thing is, I had recorded nearly TWICE as much info on this SAME CARD the night before the gig, with no problems. I then erased those files (did NOT reformat, wonder if there is a bug in the OS (v1.0 firmware at that time) that required you to FORMAT the card after erasing large files??!?

If there's time tonite, I'm going to re-record that card nearly full with large files (or until it quits) then delete them and try to record again - if that doesn't work, I'll FORMAT the card again - hopefully this will point to a solution (like, ALWAYS use a freshly formatted card??!?)

Man, I really WANT to like this little guy, but... Steve

BTW, firmware is now the current 1.4.3 as it was during the gig, so may reinstall 1.0 to see if the problem still exists.

Michael thanks for the info.
I had a chance to take a quick look at H4, at one of the video shows on Long Island and it seemed very nice, in general.
I might actually end up buying H4, instead of renting some high-end recorder for my short...
Vic

Quick question for everyone (regarding audio recorders) :

Do any of these digital recorders allow you to plug in TWO mics (one vocal, one for guitar etc) and then mix the levels ?

In other words, do any of these recorders have the ability to be a simple mixing desk as well as a digital recorder? R-09 - can it do that?

I have an iRiver IHP-120 which works great for taping bands from the mixing desk, but i'd like a recorder that will allow me to connect two inputs (mic in / line in) and mix the levels as for travelling having to transport a small mixing desk has weight & bulk issues.

Any advice on this is GREATLY appreciated.

Failing a suitable compact "mixer/recorder" device, if someone could suggest to me a SMALL mixer (not too expensive!) that i could use instead that would be great.

thanks

Behringer has some small mixers in the $100 US range that might do, including a couple of battery operated models as I recall.

Behringer has some small mixers in the $100 US range that might do, including a couple of battery operated models as I recall.thanks for the recommendation Steve. I'll check them out.
But you don't know of a small digital recorder that can take two Line or Mic inputs and adjust the levels of those two inputs separately prior to writing it to a WAV or MP3 file? an all-in-one unit would be great.

Quick question for everyone (regarding audio recorders) :

Do any of these digital recorders allow you to plug in TWO mics (one vocal, one for guitar etc) and then mix the levels ?

In other words, do any of these recorders have the ability to be a simple mixing desk as well as a digital recorder? R-09 - can it do that?

I have an iRiver IHP-120 which works great for taping bands from the mixing desk, but i'd like a recorder that will allow me to connect two inputs (mic in / line in) and mix the levels as for travelling having to transport a small mixing desk has weight & bulk issues.

Any advice on this is GREATLY appreciated.

Failing a suitable compact "mixer/recorder" device, if someone could suggest to me a SMALL mixer (not too expensive!) that i could use instead that would be great.

thanks

The new Zoom H4 has seperate dual 1/4/XLR inputs that can be independantly controlled. The microtrack also enables you to plug in 2 devices using the 1/4 trs inputs, and also allow for independant L/R control.

Both of these units have phantom power capability, but only the H4 allows for true 48v phantom.

The R-09 only allows for 1 input and does not have independant L/R level control.

Now keep in mind, that these are very small audio recorders. For something more substantial look at the Edirol R-4, Fostex FR-2, Marantz PMD670 and such.

thanks for the recommendation Steve. I'll check them out.
But you don't know of a small digital recorder that can take two Line or Mic inputs and adjust the levels of those two inputs separately prior to writing it to a WAV or MP3 file? an all-in-one unit would be great.

I really don't know for sure. Perhaps the M-Audio Microtrack 2496 - you can check their manual online at the M-Audio website. Or go a little larger with the Tascam HD-P2 flash recorder.

I have the Microtrack, and yes, you can adjust each of the input levels separately.

Behringer has some small mixers in the $100 US range that might do, including a couple of battery operated models as I recall.

I know of this one which runs on four 9V.

http://www.behringer.com/UBB1002/index.cfm?lang=ENG

Might want to check if the phantom with battery
powering is the full 48V or if it goes down to 18V.

I heard of a guy who has one and he says
it's alright. I think it's in the $100 to $200
range.

Also, for the MT2496, I would recomend mics that will let you use batteries in them as oposed to ones that require phantom power.

thanks for the recommendation Steve. I'll check them out.
But you don't know of a small digital recorder that can take two Line or Mic inputs and adjust the levels of those two inputs separately prior to writing it to a WAV or MP3 file? an all-in-one unit would be great.

Hmm...if all you need is to adjust the levels of 2 mics individually, resp. each channel separately, your iRiver iHP120 can do it, that is if you run it with Rockbox - which I highly recommend ayway. It gives you live mic level meters and live separate channel mic level adjustment. you can choose if you want to adjust both together or any individually:
http://www.rockbox.org/

thanks so much for that Andreas.

Last question - can Rockbox let me adjust input levels when i am recording via LINE IN ? The iRiver firmware i have (1.40E) doesnt let me do this which is pretty annoying as i keep clipping the signal off a mixing desk and theres nothing i can do currently.

thanks so much for that Andreas.

Last question - can Rockbox let me adjust input levels when i am recording via LINE IN ? The iRiver firmware i have (1.40E) doesnt let me do this which is pretty annoying as i keep clipping the signal off a mixing desk and theres nothing i can do currently.

Yes, live level adjustments with LINE-IN recording under Rockbox.

I do not know how it compares to the mic-in recording under the original firmware because I had installed Rockbox the day I received the player. In fact I had chosen the iHP120 because in various forums I had learned of it's very good recording ability when used with Rockbox. I had not been disappointed, I love it.

I can't explain the details, but you will get all your questions answered at taperssection.com, a forum dedicated to audio recording where many use the iRiver iHPs. E.g. check iRiver H1xx taper's FAQ:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,64277.0.html

Even it's AGC seems to be useful, 'Petur', a developer of Rockbox explains it in another thread, http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,57068.0/all.html in post #156 as follows:
In the rockbox forum, there's a Recording Enhancement Pack offered (official sources plus a number of patches).
That build includes an AGC. Its default setting is Saferty, which does the following: If levels become too hot (above -3dB I think) it decreases gain by 0.5dB.

For stealth recording this is very nice. Just take a guess at initial gain and know that the AGC will correct if you applied too much gain.
The AGC works fairly slow, so I wouldn't call it a true AGC but more a clipping safety feature.

Gain settings depend on the mics and pre-amp, so it's hard to say.
I would use as much gain on the pre-amp as possible and as close to zero as possible on the iriver. When using the AGC feature, leave some headroom (10dB ?) so it can lower gain if the show gets louder (some rock shows seem to do that near the end)

here the main recording setting choices under Rockbox:

format: PCM Wave/RIFF/WacPack/MPEGlayer3
bitrate: 16/24/32/...../128/160/192/224/256/320 kBit/s
frequency: 44,1kHz/22,05kHz
source: internal mic/line in/digital/FM radio
channels: mono/stereo
file split options: ...various...
prerecord time: off/1sec/2sec/....30sec
clipping light: ....
and more.......

AGC settings to choose:
safety(clip) / live(slow) / DJ-set(slow) / medium/voice(fast)
or the AGC times 200ms/400ms....1s,
and various 'trigger' settings ( which I don't know what they are for )

while recording you can adjust the levels on the recording screen ( pics of it in my last post ) starting from -64dB in 0,5dB steps up to 48dB.
As far as I know all the way the gain is 2/3rds analog, 1/3 digital.

Please refer to the Rockbox manual, also for instructions how to install:
http://www.rockbox.org/manual.shtml

check also:
http://www.misticriver.net/forumdisplay.php?f=135

Even with Rockbox installed you also can choose to boot your player with the original firmware.
There are bugs reported now and then, but I have not had any problems.
I am sure: Try it and you will love it!

double post..see below

Rockbox does line-in recording
For the H120 has not been officially released which means there may be bugs...but no question, if you record Rockbox offers huge improovements and you should get it.
( sorry for 3 posts in a row, while editing the original post with the very slow connection I am battling here it happened that the same post had been sent 3 x and I edited later )

Nice recorder with some problems - my biggest caveats are limited battery life and the batts can't be changed in the field - internal fixed batt only in other words. And the mic phantom power is only 30 volts, eliminating your abilty to use some of the better condenser mics that require the full 48v power.

Hello,

I read some reviews that stated that the battery was a weak link. One guy had to replace the battery just after the 90 warranty ran out and had to pay almost $100.00.

The company states that the unit will run for 8 hours (3 hours using phantom power). How long will this unit record for in your experience?

How long does it take to charge?

Can you run it with a power supply off of AC or and additional external battery pack?

Thanks!!!

[...] I read some reviews that stated that the battery was a weak link [...] Can you run it with a power supply off of AC or and additional external battery pack? [...] I would suggest writing off the Microtrack 2496, the battery is the weak link, lack of full Phantom power voltage was an issue (but less so since I mostly used it with my Sound Devices 302 mixer) and all these problems vexed me for the whole time I owned mine, and then it just up and died on me, kaput, it really bothered me I could not use rechargeable AA batteries with it, so now I"m looking for another recorder, and the replacement, given my experience, is not going to be a Microtrack.

You can power the Microtrack through the USB port, you can plug in it's Charger which powers it through the USB so you can operate it off any USB power source and not drain down the battery. There are several battery packs designed for powering iPods through the USB that could be used with the Microtrack as an extra battery pack.

One good thing that came from the Microtrack dying is that I started using my MacBook Pro laptop with Boom Recorder (http://www.vosgames.nl/products/BoomRecorder/) as its replacement while I decide on another small recorder, and it has been wonderful to work with Boom Recorder, the interface, the metadata, everything about it is so right for recording (except the weight and size of the laptop).

I would suggest writing off the Microtrack 2496, the battery is the weak link, lack of full Phantom power voltage was an issue (but less so since I mostly used it with my Sound Devices 302 mixer) and all these problems vexed me for the whole time I owned mine, and then it just up and died on me, kaput, it really bothered me I could not use rechargeable AA batteries with it, so now I"m looking for another recorder, and the replacement, given my experience, is not going to be a Microtrack.

You can power the Microtrack through the USB port, you can plug in it's Charger which powers it through the USB so you can operate it off any USB power source and not drain down the battery. There are several battery packs designed for powering iPods through the USB that could be used with the Microtrack as an extra battery pack.

One good thing that came from the Microtrack dying is that I started using my MacBook Pro laptop with Boom Recorder (http://www.vosgames.nl/products/BoomRecorder/) as its replacement while I decide on another small recorder, and it has been wonderful to work with Boom Recorder, the interface, the metadata, everything about it is so right for recording (except the weight and size of the laptop).

Thanks for the reply David.

What small recording unit are you looking at?

The Tascam is a bit big and pricey for my Run-n-Gun needs, and the Maranz have noisy pre-amps according to what I have read.

What unit will give Great/outstanding quality, have I/O flexibility, run on replaceable batteries, and have a small footprint so as to maybe even strap it onto the camera??

I know I'm asking for a lot, but there just might be a unit out there that fits the bill... and I bet we'd all like to know about that :-)

Thanks Again!

Maranz have noisy pre-amps according to what I have read.

You can buy a modified Marantz 660 from the Oade Brothers Audio that upgrades the whole audio path to eliminate any hiss and enhance the overall sound quality of it.

http://www.oade.com/digital_recorders/hard_disc_recorders/PMD-660MODS.html

They also sell a modified Fostex FR-2LE, which is slightly larger, with even better sound.

http://www.oade.com/digital_recorders/hard_disc_recorders/FR-2LE_upgrades.html

...Beyond this, you are into a Sound Devices 7xx series recorder, starting at almost 2 grand, but this is a state of the art recorder.

Thanks again for the info!

My immediate budget is more in the $300 - $400 range. For a little more than some of these mods you could get the Marantz PMD-670, which has 5dB better Signal-to-Noise Ratio.

the mods don't specify what the end result Signal-to-Noise Ratio is... whould you fathom a guess?

I purchased the Edirol R-09 tonight under the agreement that if I didn't like the audio quality I could bring it back. I made the guy check to make sure that there wouldn't be a restocking fee as he stated, but he found out that there would be a 15% fee, so I opted out until I could check with you guys to see if this unit was good enough quality wise and quiet enough from a pre-amp perspective.

At $399.00 this isn't cheap so I would like some feedback.

Other than that, I think I'll wait for a job that will justify the Tascam HD-P2, which I heard some great reviews for.

Again, your opinions are important to me and I appreciate them!

AM

Some of the Oade modes appear to be resisters across the mic input to reduce the sensitivity by 10db, thus their claim of improved signal-to-noise ratio. Would be good for rock concerts, ie: PA type recording.

If you read the Oade website, mods and parts are chosen "by ear".... Whos Ear? I would like to have documentation to go along with any modification, wouldn't you??

Tascam good unit.
How about Fostex FR-2LE?

http://www.avisoft.com/recordertests.htm