I'm suprised no one has ever brought this up, but I just bought the nebtek monitor for my XL1 and this thing rocks! Much better than any flip-out monitor that I've ever seen. This thing works in direct sunlight. Not to mention that it just looks cool on the XL1, it commands respect from actors. Does anyone else have this? and if so, why didn't you tell me?

Whats the web address of the Nebtek monitor? Im interested :)

Looks like this is it, but I didn't pay that much, so maybe this is the wrong one, or maybe they lowered the price from that listed on the website. I paid $495 plus $30 for the ball mount.
http://www.nebtek.com/5inch/NEB50Xl%20page.html

Dr:

The Nebtek looks interesting. How does the monitor look in daylight; ie., does it wash out?

Also, do you primarily use it to check focus; or, do you use it as your primary viewfinder?

-- Alan

Perhaps this is the one you purchased

http://www.nebtek.com/5inch/neb50.html

I'd love to hear about the quality of the image on this monitor. I just recently purchased a glidecam unit and went with their monitor. It is extremely contrasty, fuzzy, and impossible to get remotely close on color balance.. Others have expressed similar opinions about their remote LCDs. Do you feel that the image is is as good as say the flip out on the gl1 or similar camera.

Also do you have a handle on battery usage with the canon batteries?

thanks

The ability to use a Canon battery looks most interesting to me. My Varizoom is supplied with a brick of a battery that feels like it could jump-start a Hummer.

Q: The Nebtek looks interesting. How does the monitor look in daylight; ie., does it wash out?

A: That's the amazing thing about this is you can still see an image in direct sunlight. I'm not kidding... no clouds, bright sun high in the sky, shining directly on the monitor you can still make out images on the monitor. You don't need a hood for it. That was one of the major selling points for me.

Q: do you primarily use it to check focus; or, do you use it as your primary viewfinder?

A: Right now I use it as the primary viewfinder. I bought it as an alternative to shelling out the big bucks for a black and white viewfinder. The only time I look in the viewfinder is to check if there is any zibra overexposure. Seems like everything else I need appears in the monitor except the zibra.

Q: Perhaps this is the one you purchased Neb 50 Pro with Lithium Ion battery clip.

A: Yeah, I think your right, thanks. Be sure to get the ball mount for $30 so you can adjust, turn, and tilt the monitor in any position you want.

Q: I'd love to hear about the quality of the image on this monitor... Do you feel that the image is is as good as say the flip out on the gl1 or similar camera?

A: I've only delt with the GL1 once, if I recall the flip out monitor was much smaller. I consider the image quality very good. I just adjust the color and brightness to match the color and brightness of what is in the viewfinder. So, I haven't had any problems in that respect.

Nebtek has the Pansonic TC-7WMS1 7" monitor for sale for $200 over the manufacturer sugested retail price and $250 more then you can buy it from any retailer. Thats just for the stock monitor from Panasonic as found anywhere. Add thier "Pro" box to the stock monitor and your paying $500 for a few connectors and a regulator that lets you use 24v. Want to use the Canon battery ? Thats only $100 more on top of that. Only reason I can see to buy from Nebtek is if your afraid of soldering iron. They just tack a box with connectors on to exsisting LCD monitors and charge a ton for it.

Spoke to Chris (ZGC) today and asked for her opinion regarding the Nebtek-vs-Varizoom. Without a doubt...Nebtek!

At NAB, they had a demo of the various on-camera monitors with a light facing directly into each one. The Nebtek, apparently, had the biggest light on it. The others failed, whereas the Nebtek could be seen clearly, even from a long distance.

Check price with Chris, almost the same as Varizoom.

Hey psteinman,

Where do you get this 7" panasonic? I did a search on yahoo and theres nothing.

Nevermind, I cut and pasted your post and realized it was missing an "A".

Anyway, can you suggest a place that has all those connectors, because I'm willing to solder stuff together for a better res monitor.

fill us in, I'm quite comfy with iron.

Nebtek offers a do-it-yourself kit that enables you to convert your lcd monitor to use a standard Canon battery. Visit the newbtek.com site for details.

It's not really a "do-it yourself" kit. NEBTEK sells the Li-battery adapter as a stand alone unit ($100). You have to be handy with a soldering iron, and know your circuitry cards to identify the correct pin-out for the power supply. Or you can send it to them and they will mount it to an existing monitor for $35 more.

My Nebtek 50XL can use any Canon standard battery right out of the box. I have a few 915's just for that purpose, keeps the weight down. Works great in most situations.

I've heard nothing but good about the NEBTEK. I found it priced lowest ($437 for everything including swivel mount) at the below URL. Ordering it today.

http://www.zgc.com/html/nebtek_5_inch_monitor.html

Varizoom is OK with the sunhood option, but forget it if you want to shoot from the shoulder. The battery is a monster. The pixel count is a little less the the NEBTEK as well.

Good on ya, as ZGC is one of this site's sponsors and they help make these boards available to you. Thanks,

I am getting ready to purchase an external LCD monitor for my Canon XL1s. I need one that is switchable between 4:3 and 16:9. It seems to me that the only one out there that is any good is the "Panasonic TC-7WMS1 7in 16:9 Color LCD Monitor, Switchable to 4:3 Aspect Ratio".

It seems I will also have to purchase a battery pack and a mount for my XL1s.

Does anybody know of a better choice, or where to find the best price on this as a package?

I want to buy something in the next week or so, so any info you can provide would be very helpful.

The lcd monitors sold by Elite Video, Varizoom and others are mostly the same junk. They're very course resolutions and feature very poor color imaging.

The Panasonic TC-7WMS1 is a 7" high-res monitor with a 16:9 display aspect ration, switchable to 4:3. It is absolutely a cut far above the lcd's above. But, of course, at a price. By the time you add the acccessory kits required to fully configure the monitor (ex: external power supply, camera cables, etc.) it will run you approx. $900.

Marshall also makes several high-res lcd monitors designed for film/video production assistance.

But the bottom line is that you get -only- what you pay for. Expect to pay-up for high quality displays.

I am all for getting the best quality I can.

Do you have a suggestion on where to get the best package? I have looked at B&H photo and they are vague about the accesories. Little to no descriptions. I would rather just buy the whole thing at once.

Nebtek seems to offer one, for about a thousand bucks. Their descrition is more detailed, but the monitor alone is alot more expensive than other places. Any info will help. Thanks.

Yeah, NEBTEK 7 inch model (http://nebtek.com/7inch/neb70.html) is a modified Panasonic (http://www.panasonic.com/PBDS/subcat/Products/displays_monitors/f_tc-7wms1.html) and is designed to fit the Canon XL1. I went with the 5-inch version because it fits better on the small body style. The 7-inch fits better perched on top of a Sony DSR300AL body style or bigger. It is also available at ZGC, but not listed on their website. ZGC has outstanding service and quick email response (chris@zgc.com) and their prices are second to none. I have struggled with B&H and Adorama and they have to special order and you might see it a 2 or 3 weeks later, but worth a look.

I have always found Marshall to be an extra and unnecessary cost, but that is an opinion. Varizoom is a joke for TFT displays, but their zoom/focus controls are industry standard.

I only use the TFT to visibly gauge color while depending on the FU-1000 B&W viewfinder to find the perfect focus (sweet spot). I would never try to shoot 16:9 on the Canon XL1s, because the image is "Forced" to the aspect ratio at the degradation of the image quality. Better go with the Sony DSR500WSL-1 if your want a true 16:9. My opinion again :-)

Codeman3D,
Panasonic has a good info sheet on the 7" monitor and its accessory kits in Acrobat format on their Web site. Just search on the product id (TC-7WMS1). If you cannot find it I can email it to you, since I have it handy.

BTW, B&H has the 7" monitor and its accessories in stock at this writing.

Thanks for the info. I think I am ending up getting the NebTek NEB 70 LI for the convenience of the canon battery mount.

I will have to give them a call tomorrow since their online store doesnt seem to want to sell me the panasonic.

Take care.

Take note that the NEB 70 PRO LI is a BNC interface. It's designed for the better DV cameras with BNC component connectors. The Canon XL1 comes stock with the RCA connector for preview output... only the NEB50XL is really designed for the CanonXL1 BECAUSE of the RCA output. There is no conversion for RCA to BNC component.

Friendly advice.

Thanks for the info. I was planning on contacting Nebtek tomorrow, since it was unclear on the site.

So this leaves me in a quandry. I need 16:9 and 4:3 switchable. Does anybody know of a solution?

I did see an Apex portable DVD player with SVHS and RCA inputs on sale for $299. It is switchable from 4:3 to 16:9. The screen wasn't great, but it will give me a turer 16:9 display.

<< Indesign: " There is no conversion for RCA to BNC component. " >>

Actually, not so. You can get a very inexpensive adapter from nearly any Radio Shack that will permit you to plug an RCA cable into a BNC receptacle. I use two of them on my Sony 8" field monitors.

<<<Actually, not so. You can get a very inexpensive adapter from nearly any Radio Shack that will permit you to plug an RCA cable into a BNC receptacle. I use two of them on my Sony 8" field monitors. -->>>

Now my head is spinning ;)

I really want the panasonic. It seems to be the best for my needs.

So, Ken, you are saying that this simple adaptor will solve all my problems of connecting. Sweeeet!

I have checked into the "Panasonic DVD-LV70 Portable DVD". This uses the same monitor and has the ability to accept RCA and SVHS inputs. Has anybody here ever tried using a portable. If I could figure out how to mount it, It might be a more versatile option.

Yes and no... I should have said stock adapter, because I talked to NEBTEK directly about this. Third party conversions are available though. Thanks for correcting me on this Ken. Some people are sticklers for true YPbPr or YCbCr component signal on their previews and want the BNC. But I still lean towards the stock RCA for the sake of straight-forward XL1 compatiblity :-)

Yes, this $1.69 adapter will enable you to connect the XL1s to the Panasonic monitor's BNC video-in port. Of course you don't get the full advantage of having the secure field connection that BNC is designed to provide. But it will work hunky dunky.

Ken Tanaka and Inndesign,

Are you both talking about the same thing? Does the Panasonic monitor require Composite or Component input? If it is Composite with BNC connector, the MA200 will solve that problem as well as the Radio Shack adapter. Also, Markertek.com sells a cable with RCA on one end and BNC on the other. If it is Component, wouldn't that require a different sort of adapter?

You're quite right, Ed. The Panasonic monitor takes a BNC *composite* video input, not a component input.

Panasonic's spec page for this unit it at:
http://www.panasonic.com/pbds/subcat/Products/displays_monitors/specs/s_tc-7wms1.html

Well, I talked to the guys at NebTek and they were very helpful. I ended up getting the NEB 70 LI. I ended up paying about $80 more than B&H Photo for the monitor, but the advantage of using my Canon batteries and the fact that the Panasonic 7" is such an amazing LCD monitor sealed the deal.

I'll let you guys know how it works for 16:9 shooting.

Thanks for all your help.

Good, practical choice. I'm sure you'll be happy with the Panasonic/Nebtek monitor.

For what it's worth, about a year ago the Panasonic folks let me try out the Panasonic TC-7WMS1 LCD monitor on my XL1. I tried it in both standard mode and widescreen 16x9. It worked great! Excellent for critical focus. I felt I couldn't afford it at the time. I've been able to get by with the color LCD viewfinder on the XL1, however, as soon as I get into some really intense, demanding video projects I'll probably spring for the TC-7WMS1. If there is a better LCD monitor out there for the money please let me know.

It may be worth pointing out that the various units Nebtek sells as well as the Panasonic were developed for the burgeoning mobile video market, meaning displays that are meant to be mounted in cars and minivans and the like so your kids can watch "Shrek" every time you drive to Grandma's. The fortunate thing about this is that because of the particular demands of automotive use (high-intensity displays are needed to overcome sunlight) and the mass-production numbers involved, these units have become much cheaper and smaller than they used to be. It's worth a trip to your local high end car stereo store to see what they might have in the showroom or can order for you, the prices are astoundingly low. As soon as something is repackaged for the film or broadcast market the prices shoot up.

Several of the displays Nebtek is repping are made by Accele for the automotive market (they glue their name over the Accele logo). Try doing an online search under that name and comparing the units. Other more familiar names like Clarion and Alpine are also putting their name on similar displays. It is possible to get a very bright, sharp, slim 5" LCD monitor for between $250-400. The drawback is that often they have oddball jacks and connectors, and you will have to make up something that connects to your camera & power supply as previously mentioned.

I've been involved with Nebtek on their displays for a couple of years, they are good folks and sell a nice product. Whether the convenience/reliability of a converted unit is worth the price is a personal choice.

The other thing worth mentioning is that Hoodman makes a selection of flexible monitor hoods for all sizes including this range of displays. They velcro on and are real lifesavers in sunlight. Even though many of the these displays can show some sort of picture in sunlight, the hood will help restore some of the contrast and color that is lost under these conditions. Try hoodmanusa.com.

Very interesting background, Charles.

Re: Hoodman, indeed, they also make the soft case that Panasonic sells as the carrying case for this unit.

Also, regarding battery power options, a "battery power framework" kit is available for the Panasonic monitor which adapts it for use with the Anton Bauer battery system.

Anyone here ever hear of a clam shell monitor that can play back dv footage?

If so, I'd like to know where to get one from and a price range.

thanks

By definition, a monitor does not "play back" anything. Are you thinking of the Sony "Watchman" dv deck? It's a portable deck that features a small lcd screen.

Well I got my monitor. It is beautiful. Such clarity.

I only had one problem. The standard cable that comes with it is about 7" too short to hook into my XL1s. I had to get a BNC to RCA converter and then a female to male RCA to extend it. The shortest I could find was 3'. This makes for an octopus on the side of my camera. I temporarily bound it with a twist tie.

I called NebTek and talked to them about it, and they offered to extend the video plug and put on an RCA for me. This will work great. When I have the time I will send it back in to them.

I suggested to them to offer a Canon XL1/XL1s package that includes this. They are considering this.

****In the meantime, if you are ordering for you XL1/XL1s, ask them to extend this for you. This will save you lots of time and make a nice custom fit for the monitor cabling.

I highly recommend this monitor. It is so crisp, I will no longer suffer the eye strain from trying to focus through the tiny viewfinder. Also it is so nice to see my 16:9 in true aspect.

Hope this helps.

Glad you're happy with the Panasonic/Nebtek monitor! Yes it sure is a world of difference from the other lcd monitors (although it does bash the budget a bit). I'm certainly delighted with mine (I have the straight Panasonic version).

If you think of it, let us know how long the Nebtek'ed version runs off of the Canon batteries.

Also, in case Nebtek didn't include a case, there's a specially-designed Hoodman soft case available under the product id of TC7-CC.

Happy viewing!

Now that you have the 7" screen what do you think about its
size? Cause I remember someone saying that 7" might be a bit
too large for a cam like the XL1 and that you'd be better of
getting a 5". What is your take on this? Where does this LCD
screen mount?

Heck, anything looks goofy hanging off of the XL1...for that matter the XL1 looks goofy! <g> But, naw, the 7" Panasonic monitor is not too large at all and it weighs only a few ounces, no heavier than the Varizoom lcd. Since it has a standard tripod mount hole it can be mounted to a shoe fitting. Note, however, that the fitting included with the TC7-CAM kit is not designed to mount to the shoe. You'll probably have to visit a local photoshop to get the right gizmo.

It is big, but beautiful. It is light weight. I got the hot shoe mount ($30) and it works great. It mounts on top of my XL1s.

I will be getting practical experience with it today, as I have an important scene to shoot in an alley.

I really had to have the 16:9, so the 7" was my only choice. I'll let you know how it works in the trenches. At home, it is a piece of art!

I was thinking about maybe getting that 5" model that they
make for the XL1. Is that one also a good panasonic model?
Or is this one too small?

<< Codemand3D: "I will be getting practical experience with it today, as I have an important scene to shoot in an alley." >>

You realize that that remark would seem -extremely- odd to a passer-by unfamiliar with the nature of the subject. ;-)

One point for interested onlookers, which I don't believe has been made by anyone yet.

The 7" Panasonic monitor (and probably it's Nebtek'ed cousin) shows the full (underscan) frame image just like a professional field monitor. So, if you're an XL1/1s shooter and occasionally curse the standard color lcd viewfinder for cropping the frame so badly this monitor would help you to verify the full contents of your image...while you still have a chance to make corrections <g>.

I posted my initial impressions of working in the field with the NEB 70 Li on my site. The link is:

http://home.attbi.com/~DVfilmmaker/Diary26.htm

This was a smart investment for me =)

Ken:

That's really good to know, I wasn't aware of that about the Panasonic. Now if there was a low-cost frameline generator that could be set to show the TV safe parameters within that display, or duplicate the 16:9 framelines indicated in the XL1s viewfinder...they can be had but for around $1000, not ideal.

There's an unfortunate amount of guesswork to be had when framing with the XL1. The color viewfinder overscans, the black and white underscans and doesn't give you TV safe guides like the broadcast viewfinders (which for the price, it really should...). At least with an outboard LCD like the Panasonic you can mark them on the face with a grease pencil or water-soluble marker.

Using a frameline generator with the Panasonic monitor could be challenging since the monitor features several push-button display modes: 4:3, 16:9, zoom (fills the screen) and "just" (similar to zoom).

I think your mark-it-yourself solution might be the best. You might be able to use overlay sheets (commonly used to protect pda screens from wear) to avoid damaging the screen. They'll dull the image just a bit but they'd ultimately save damage to the coated screen. Sounds like a good rainy-day project, since I think I may have some in a drawer.

Not to be contrary, my esteemed colleague Mr. T., but yet I must! The frameline generator goes inline between the source and the monitor, so the video on the display will contain the framelines and thus resizing will affect both equally. Drawing on the monitor face means that as soon as the zoom function is used, the lines become useless.

Also, I would hazard a guess that the overlay sheets may create reflection issues outdoors--but that is a much better suggestion than drawing on the face of the display, shame on me. I'm used to doing that on CRT's, the glass faces can take it better.

You've certainly the right to be contrary Mr. P. I di'nt know ding-dong about a frameline generator. (But have since learned a bit more.) Also, indeed, drawing on the screen (or overlays) would only work if you kept the display mode set to, say, 4:3. (BTW you're also right on the overlay idea; it stinks. I've since tried one on the screen.)

Ideally, I suppose it would be handy to be able to connect the monitor (any monitor) into the same signal fed to the viewfinder. It makes me wonder why the camera doesn't offer this feature. It also makes me wonder if some type of adapter/splitter couldn't be fashioned for that purpose. Hey, where's Don Palomaki with that XL1 service manual?....