View Full Version : Prospect HD -- various questions


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Charles Achilefu
March 1st, 2007, 07:30 PM
Hello,
I am aware that Blackmagic's Intensity is only capable of 8-bit 4:2:2.
I need clarification on if using ProspectHd with Blackmagic's DeckLink HD Studio HDMI and Analog Capture Card, & a camera like Sony's HVR-V1, will yield TRUE 10-bit cineform intermediate.

David Newman
March 1st, 2007, 08:37 PM
Prospect HD comes with the RAW decoder and support for RAW editing, but today the RAW encoding is licensed separately (currently only by camera vendors) as 99.9% of users have no need for RAW encoding outside of camera acquisition. When exporting CineForm RAW from an NLE or compositor you encode to CineForm Intermediate (or anything else.) Reelstream or industrial camera vendors are open to license the RAW encoder. If you personally have an application that needs a RAW encoding license, please contact CineForm directly.

David Newman
March 1st, 2007, 08:40 PM
The Intensity card is capable of 10-bit over HDMI yet cameras like Sony V1U only support eight (not a Blackmagic limitation.) Even with 8-bit sources, Prospect HD can encode with 10-bit precision (for a true 10-bit Cineform Intermediate.)

Mathieu Kassovitz
March 1st, 2007, 09:01 PM
But only 1080i. . .

. . .not 24p nor 25p or am I missing something?

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?p=633816#post633816

David Newman
March 1st, 2007, 09:26 PM
You are missing the fact that there is pulldown applied; 24p is typical carried in 60i via 3-2 pulldown (just as it is with Canon's XL-H1 XH-G1.) CineForm has been extracting pulldown in real-time for years now. So yes you get 24p from 1080i60 when using a Sony V1U.

Ron Nakano
March 7th, 2007, 04:30 PM
Hello,

Just curious, has anyone captured HDMI via Blackmagic while recording to tape, and then captured the HDV version and comparing the difference to see the damage that going to HDV does?

Thanks,
Ron

David Newman
March 7th, 2007, 04:39 PM
Read my lastest blog entry on this subject : http://cineform.blogspot.com/index.html The pixelcorps guys just did this test.

Jack Kelly
March 29th, 2007, 02:37 AM
Hi there,

I'm planning to finally make the leap to HD. I've done a price comparison for upgrading to a fully uncompressed HD system with a RAID6 array versus buying the Cineform "Ingest (HD-SDI & component HD I/O) bundle". It looks like I'll save a few hundred quid by going for the Cineform option and I also like the fact that the Cineform option will give me far less data backup and archive headaches.

Please may I ask some questions about Prospect HD:

1) What is the price of the Prospect HD-Ingest + (HD-SDI & component HD I/O) bundle for UK customers? The US price is $3989. Will the UK price be around £2030? (That currency conversion was done on XE.com).

2) Can I ingest HD-SDI to Cineform RAW? Or is Cineform RAW only available when capturing directly from the Silicon Imaging cameras?

3) I've heard that Cineform are developing a 4:4:4 codec. Will that be a free update to Prospect HD? Will I be able to ingest dual-link HD-SDI to Cineform 4:4:4?

4) Which AJA card is supplied with the Prospect HD ingest + (HD-SDI & component HD I/O) bundle? Is the card PCI-e?

5) is my processor fast enough for ingesting HD-SDI to Cineform? I have an AMD Athlon 64 X2 running at 2.2GHz with 3GB of RAM.

6) Which performs best with Cineform & AJA - WinXP-64bit or WinXP-32bit?

7) Will Prospect HD with the bundled AJA card downconvert to SD on the fly so I can symaltaneously monitor in SD and HD?

8) Will Cineform support Premiere Pro CS3 and AE CS3?

Sorry for all the questions! Thanks in advance,
Jack

David Taylor
March 29th, 2007, 08:35 AM
Hi there,

I'm planning to finally make the leap to HD. I've done a price comparison for upgrading to a fully uncompressed HD system with a RAID6 array versus buying the Cineform "Ingest (HD-SDI & component HD I/O) bundle". It looks like I'll save a few hundred quid by going for the Cineform option and I also like the fact that the Cineform option will give me far less data backup and archive headaches.

Please may I ask some questions about Prospect HD:

1) What is the price of the Prospect HD-Ingest + (HD-SDI & component HD I/O) bundle for UK customers? The US price is $3989. Will the UK price be around £2030? (That currency conversion was done on XE.com).

We accept dollars, so your credit card will convert using whatever conversion metrics are applicable at the time.

2) Can I ingest HD-SDI to Cineform RAW? Or is Cineform RAW only available when capturing directly from the Silicon Imaging cameras?

CineForm RAW is only an ingest format directly from Bayer sensors, or from uncompressed RAW files that were captured directly from Bayer sensors. Once an image has been processed in-camera it no longer qualifies for CineForm RAW encoding.

3) I've heard that Cineform are developing a 4:4:4 codec. Will that be a free update to Prospect HD? Will I be able to ingest dual-link HD-SDI to Cineform 4:4:4?

We will be announcing our product strategy with our 444 codec before NAB. But suffice it to say that any existing Prospect HD customer will get the CineForm 444 codec at no charge.

Regarding 444 ingest, you will need an AJA Xena 2K card and Prospect 2K, BUT we don't currently support that card yet. We will support it sometime in the next couple months however. In the mean time the 444 codec is best used for rendering into or out of. Also, no product announcement here, but the visual quality testing we did vs HDCam SR was performed on a Wafian D2D recorder prototype that used a Xena 2K card.

4) Which AJA card is supplied with the Prospect HD ingest + (HD-SDI & component HD I/O) bundle? Is the card PCI-e?

We have an order option for the OEM version of the Xena LH (PCIX) or LHe (PCIe). In this case OEM means that AJA disables the use of their Machina software (uncompressed) on the OEM version we provide.

5) is my processor fast enough for ingesting HD-SDI to Cineform? I have an AMD Athlon 64 X2 running at 2.2GHz with 3GB of RAM.

No. You'll need more horsepower. Please see our Prospect HD product page and read the HW configuration section.

6) Which performs best with Cineform & AJA - WinXP-64bit or WinXP-32bit?

XP 32-bit. There are numerous HW driver issues on 64-bit.

7) Will Prospect HD with the bundled AJA card downconvert to SD on the fly so I can symaltaneously monitor in SD and HD?

I assume you mean for timeline monitoring, right? If so, I'll have to answer this later. There is a subtlety about timeline monitoring an HD project at SD that I'll have to check on....

8) Will Cineform support Premiere Pro CS3 and AE CS3?

Yes.

Sorry for all the questions! Thanks in advance,
Jack

No problem - glad to help....

Jack Kelly
March 29th, 2007, 10:31 AM
Brilliant! Thanks loads for the very swift and informative reply.

CineForm RAW is only an ingest format directly from Bayer sensors, or from uncompressed RAW files that were captured directly from Bayer sensors. Once an image has been processed in-camera it no longer qualifies for CineForm RAW encoding.

Ahh, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the explanation.

But suffice it to say that any existing Prospect HD customer will get the CineForm 444 codec at no charge. Regarding 444 ingest, you will need an AJA Xena 2K card and Prospect 2K...

OK - just to make sure I understand this correctly... say I buy Prospect HD with an AJA LHe card - am I correct in thinking that I'll be able to render and playback 4:4:4 but I wont be able to injest 4:4:4?

We have an order option for the OEM version of the Xena LH (PCIX) or LHe (PCIe). In this case OEM means that AJA disables the use of their Machina software (uncompressed) on the OEM version we provide.

OK. Say I want a system which can do BOTH uncompressed HD and Cineform. Could I buy myself a fast RAID array, a retail AJA LHe card (for doing uncompressed) and also buy a copy of Cineform Aspect HD? (I understand that Aspect HD can't encode-on-ingest). Could I then capture as uncompressed, render those uncompressed files to Cineform and playback those Cineform files using my AJA LHe card? (The reason I'd like this setup is because most of my projects are short-form like short films and music videos - I will have enough storage space to keep these projects uncompressed and I do quite a lot of effects work where 4:4:4 would be really helpful. Occasionally I do longer-form projects where it'd be really useful to be able to compress the HD files)


I assume you mean for timeline monitoring, right? If so, I'll have to answer this later. There is a subtlety about timeline monitoring an HD project at SD that I'll have to check on....

Yes, you're right - I'd like to be able to monitor in SD when playing back from the timeline.

Thanks again for all your help!

Jack

David Taylor
March 29th, 2007, 01:34 PM
Brilliant! Thanks loads for the very swift and informative reply.



Ahh, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the explanation.



OK - just to make sure I understand this correctly... say I buy Prospect HD with an AJA LHe card - am I correct in thinking that I'll be able to render and playback 4:4:4 but I wont be able to injest 4:4:4?

That is correct. But remember the material you ingest through the LHe card is single-link (YUV 4:2:2) not dual-link (RGB 4:4:4). To ingest 4:4:4 (uncompressed or compressed) you need a Xena 2K card.


OK. Say I want a system which can do BOTH uncompressed HD and Cineform. Could I buy myself a fast RAID array, a retail AJA LHe card (for doing uncompressed) and also buy a copy of Cineform Aspect HD? (I understand that Aspect HD can't encode-on-ingest). Could I then capture as uncompressed, render those uncompressed files to Cineform and playback those Cineform files using my AJA LHe card? (The reason I'd like this setup is because most of my projects are short-form like short films and music videos - I will have enough storage space to keep these projects uncompressed and I do quite a lot of effects work where 4:4:4 would be really helpful. Occasionally I do longer-form projects where it'd be really useful to be able to compress the HD files)


Yes, you can do exactly as you describe. You can always capture uncompressed and render into any resolution or chroma format CineForm files. But ... Aspect HD is not the right product - AHD is limited to HDV 4:2:2 resolution (1440x1080) upon rendering. Our RGB 4:4:4 codec will be part of Prospect 2K which is what you will need. Also...we are making some product announcements ahead of NAB that I think everybody will like, including both features and pricing updates, and rolling our 444 technology into the mix. Remember, we haven't formally announced it yet, so I don't want to go into all those details quite yet.

Yes, you're right - I'd like to be able to monitor in SD when playing back from the timeline.

Update: Yes, you can monitor component SD as output when using the OEM Xena card from a CineForm HD timeline.

Thanks again for all your help!

Jack

Jack Kelly
March 30th, 2007, 01:17 AM
Brilliant, thanks loads for your reply.

Peter Ferling
April 11th, 2007, 08:11 PM
Tonight I'm watching the timeline on what is the final render of four-month long project. Not that I worked all four-months on it, mind you, but a particularly difficult shoot that involved four separate shoots in three locations covering a rather simple or routine Peripherally inserted central line catheter (or PICC for short).

The shoot was my first experiment in HD, and so involved a Sony HDR-HC1, a rented HVX200, and some follow-up with my newly acquired Canon XH-G1.

This is not a high-end, heavy budget, Hollywood feature. It's more or less your basic product instructional video that will appeal to a small niche audience: The nurses who are taking over the responsibility of placing PICCs. So, other than praise from my boss, it's unlikely I'll get any nominations or awards for this work.

So, then why bother even posting? Well, it's not the content that makes Prospect what it is; it's what prospect can do to the content.

When I started this project some months ago, I cracked open my newly install Premiere Pro 1.5 and tried working in HDV. It was a struggle in futility. Fortunately I read about cineform on this forum and installed the Prospect trial. A simple test convinced me to start over from scratch and recapture and convert the media to CFHD. Unfortunately the project hit a long delay, and my trial expired before I could resume.

Resolved, I halted production and editing until a budget was drawn to purchase a prospect license. In fact, I would not be using Premiere today if it wasn't for cineform. I don't care how fast a machine is, as there are very few faster than a BOXX 7400 quad, as raw horses don't make a good thoroughbred like Cineform.

Second, I believe that cineform, like any software, is only good as the folks whom stand behind it, and I am convinced that both Jake Segraves and David Newman are on my team. I'd have to pay a consultants fee to get the same service elsewhere.

The bottom line is that it's a great feeling to have a system of support and software, comparable to high budget Hollywood production, in the hands of the everyday average editing grunt like me.

To think that I no longer have to be the expert at keying 4:1:1 dv, or being able to perform real 10bit color correction rather than just reading about in a rag, and wishing I have the six-figure budget needed to do even half the things I can do now. To watch folks walk by an HD monitor, stop and stare at something that I shot and cut, and the finished piece looks exactly like the edit right on the timeline! To wonder who managed to cough up the huge budget to get that kind of quality?

Yeah, Prospect Rocks!

Salah Baker
May 3rd, 2007, 06:57 PM
When will CineForm 2k/I be able to make HDlink = to Machina?
I would love to have the same features/framerates/Control ,422 control guys please)that Machina has but with a CineForm back, and extras.

David Newman
May 3rd, 2007, 07:11 PM
Of course HDLink does a lot more than Machina. However AJA might add CineForm compression to Machina if enough ask.

Salah Baker
May 3rd, 2007, 07:12 PM
I would love that

Salah Baker
May 3rd, 2007, 07:15 PM
I guess the day we can boot from the same OS Drive with both would be cool too.

David Newman
May 3rd, 2007, 09:44 PM
Again an AJA request. ;)

Bob Hart
May 7th, 2007, 07:16 AM
I have downloaded Prospect V3 upgrade, uninstalled Aspect and installed Prospect.

On existing already captured files (AspectHD and its HDLink function) it works fine but on new captures in HD link, it has a problem. On capture and conversion in HD link, the capture rolls through to the end but the conversion stalls. Indicated CPU usage is practically zero but close out of Prospect, start another app and it hangs. CPU usage is then reported as 100%.

Capturing the M2T file works fine on its own. Separately converting the M2T file also stalls. Despite there being no scene detection selected, the conversion runs to 76mb, suggests the job as done by the "start" tile re-appearing. The separately completed .avi file plays fine.

The uncompleted .avi file locks the whole system up into 100% CPU usage if any attempt is made to play it.

The M2T file plays fine in VideoLan.

My computer OS is XP Professional with Service Pack 2 installed. NLE is Premiere Pro 2. With Aspect HD installed, everything worked trouble-free so this new turn of events is a bit of a worry.

The computer however is a no-name and not an Adobe approved system.


In an earlier separate enquiry relating to 2K files I got this advice here at dvinfo.

"You may want to consider either NEO HD ($599) or NEO 2K ($799) for converting DPX files up to 1920x1080 4:2:2 10-bit or 2048x2048 4:4:4 12-bit. You can upgrade Aspect HD to Prospect HD for only $400 this month and that comes with NEO HD."

In the Prospect v3 that I have installed, I can find no reference to DPX fles or Neo HD. Is the Neo HD function buried in the guts somewhere slaving away in the background?


Any advice appreciated.

David Newman
May 7th, 2007, 09:08 AM
Try a reinstall as if Aspect HD work Prospect HD will. NEO HD is in the guts of Prospect, however the DPX conversion has not been added yet -- in the meantime use After Effects for DPX conversions.

Bob Hart
May 7th, 2007, 09:29 AM
Thank you David for your prompt response as always.

I shall try the re-install.

It may well be my mismanagement of the software. I normally capture via HDLink and previously have capture-converted quite long files without problems, imported into Premiere Pro 2 and simply marked ins and outs and inserted to timeline and exported.

I don' t think there is too much wrong as the computer hasn't given up and asked me to phone home to Uncle Bill (Microsoft).

Stephen Armour
May 10th, 2007, 08:52 AM
Okay, I filed a support request with CF, but someone here might have a suggestion faster....help David ...!

I upgraded to Prospect and it loaded to the Premiere CS3 beta I also had installed, not to PP2. When I deleted the Premiere CS3 session, I also deleted CF Prospect, then tried to reinstall it. It keeps stopping halfway thru and saying it can't find the Premiere "Plugins" folder! It is there with the PP2 and working just fine.

I tried to delete anything refering to Cineform in the system hive, but all to no avail.

Any suggestions? Help, I need to work!

David Newman
May 10th, 2007, 09:16 AM
Removing CS3 breaks PPro-2 for installers. You need to restore a registry key. The attached zipped registry keys (double click on them) will allow you to select and repair whether 2.0 or CS3 is the current version of Premiere for the plug-ins installer.

Bob Hart
May 10th, 2007, 09:44 AM
Tried the re-install. Things didn't change. However, a test conversion of another long file went fine even with scene detect selected on, so it might have just been a faulty recording.

Stephen Armour
May 10th, 2007, 09:55 AM
Removing CS3 breaks PPro-2 for installers. You need to restore a registry key. The attached zipped registry keys (double click on them) will allow you to select and repair whether 2.0 or CS3 is the current version of Premiere for the plug-ins installer.

Oh yeah! David, you get a medal! That's why you guys are on my list of "best in class"!

Thanks mucho, worked great!

Stephen Armour
May 10th, 2007, 05:39 PM
Maybe I missed this somewhere, but is this a known bug?:

ANY time stretch on a 1920x1080 CF'ed clip will crash PP2 when it tries to compile it. It's a showstopper, as it will complete crash out of PP2, disappearing "pop!" It starts to compile, then suddenly freezes and gives me a message about not having access authority or something to the HDD. I switched to another RAID and to a standalone Cheetah 10K drive, but same-o.

Anything I've missed on this?

David Newman
May 10th, 2007, 07:27 PM
Working fine here. File a trouble ticket will full details to see if support can help you out.

Ruben Torrejon
May 14th, 2007, 12:49 PM
I am having some troubles with the Prospect 2K v.3 (I obtained an update from Prospect HD). When using any Prospect 2K template with Cineform 1920x1080 AVI files (captured and onverted awhile back using Prospect HD)I cannot render timeline when needed or export movie. At the end of the process I get a warning message (something like "disk is either full or you don't rights to manage it" but in spanish... I live in Madrid). I must say I'm using Windows Vista Bussines but until now I didn't encountered any problems. Using any other template (Adobe HD-SDI, Canon HDV, Adobe SD) I don't get any warning message and everything's working... I am the only user and always log on as Administrator and the issue occurs only, as I said before, in projects using Prospect 2K templates...

While waiting for help I tried to uninstall and install P2K again to see if this helps... Same problem but I've noticed that upon finishing the installation I get around 3 warning windows:

Microsoft Windows Server dejo de funcionar
(Microsoft Windows Server stopped working)

So maybe the install process is bugged somewhat, I also tried to install in Win XP SP2 compatibility mode to not avail.

Furthermore on this issue... If I try to convert existing m2t clips with HDLink as before a get the following error:
cfEncoder.CoCreateInstance(CF_ENCODER_GUID) (0x80040154 - Clase no registrada) in (ConvertGraph.cpp at 1632)

Exporting video using Cineform HD Export (from within PPro 2.0) is no no, when other export formats are working as usual...

Hope this helps.

P.S.: I opened a ticket on Cineform site but until now I have not received a reply.

David Taylor
May 14th, 2007, 01:03 PM
Ruben, we don't support Vista yet. There are a number of installation problems that occur with Vista that we're working on. Hopefully we'll have something official for you in the next few weeks.

Ruben Torrejon
May 14th, 2007, 04:53 PM
Thank you, David. Will wait then.

Ruben

Stuart Brontman
May 20th, 2007, 01:14 PM
I'm ready to purchase Prospect HD for my HD projects, but have some serious concerns about hardware specs and monitoring the timeline in PPro 2.0. I've got an "older" dual Xeon 2.8 ghz machine on a Tyan 2665 MOBO, 2 gig PC2100 RAM, and plenty of quick RAID storage (not the concern). I also need to monitor the Premiere timeline, so I was prepared to buy the Xena HS or LH line to do this. Now I have read of people having problems with these cards on "older" machines.

Is there a work-around for the timeline monitoring with another hardware system (video card etc...)? The Xena cards seem great, but I can't afford the Xena AND a new computer system right now...

Decisions decisions...

Stuart

David Newman
May 20th, 2007, 02:40 PM
Xena HS or LH should work fine for timeline monitoring. The only issue we have for the classic Xeon is they where not fast enough for real-time HDSDI capture, yet we had a Xena HS in our old 2.8 dual Xena and it worked fine. When Xena for came out on the PC, 90% of AJA's PC customers would have been old Xeon based, so I don't know where you heard there was an issue.

Stuart Brontman
May 20th, 2007, 04:48 PM
Here's one thread I found:

http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/217/541?

It was a single Xeon machine, but it still had me worried considering the expense of the card. I've got an e-mail into the AJA support staff with my machine specs. I've asked for their opinion on the compatibility issue. I'm actually thinking of the Xena LH card so I can monitor directly to a decent LCD 24" to 27" computer monitor.

David Newman
May 20th, 2007, 04:56 PM
AJA should give you the best feedback, but I expect it will work fine.

Herman Van Deventer
May 26th, 2007, 05:04 PM
Thank you David and Cineform team !


Took the 2k baby for a test drive / ... In plain Afrikaans / our language -

" Befok " - In English / ..... F...... awesome !


Happy from the Third World.

Herman.

Bob Hart
May 27th, 2007, 07:53 AM
David.

No hurry in this enquiry. It might even be a case of me confusing myself.

When I downloaded the Prospect demo, I think that after I installed it, the HDLink showed or the Premiere project preferences showed a 2k option and there was a 4k to 2k conversion utlity.

However since legitimising the software, I have not been able to find this option again anywhere.

I might also have seen the option on a website somewhere and maybe my recall is wrong.

I took the AspectHD to ProspectHD upgrade month of May $400 meal deal. This apparently includes Neo as Neo does show in the list on the upper left of screen when HDLink is started.

Where I am at is that I have a test of 100 frames of DPX files on two DVD data disks which I have copied onto one of my drives. They are identified as 4K files on the printed disk label.

Neither Premiere Pro 2 or HDLink recognise the files.

In a reply to a previous enquiry there was a mention of a function to convert the 2K files to Cineform yet to come as an update.

So my question is -

Will Prospect HD with Neo eventually be able to convert these files to a Cineform intermediate by similar operator processes that HDLink provides for m2t files or will another upgrade have to be purchased?

My Super16mm/HDV origination project will be finished to DVD-Video so a DPX export is not needed.

Sorry I am not more clear. Computers are not my strong point.

Prospect seems to be doing its job as letterboxing does not seem to introduce occasional bands on transitions like AspectHD sometimes did.

David Newman
May 27th, 2007, 09:15 AM
Thank you. Yes 2K with 4:4:4 support is very nice. :)

David Newman
May 27th, 2007, 09:23 AM
DXP support is coming and it will be a free upgrade to all current users. In the meantime us After Effects for your DPX conversions.

Mark Leonard
June 25th, 2007, 03:12 PM
ok just installed the trial of prospect hd. I know nothing about it cept for reading on cineforms site about how it's better than aspect and that it will improve my quality even from my hdv hc3 and A1. so how do I import and edit so that it's 10bit? use the propect hdlink? I know it's not true 10bit b/c it's from an 8bit source. But the site was showing/saying how it's better than 8bit to 8bit :).

David Newman
June 25th, 2007, 03:46 PM
Use HDLink or directly capture in Premiere with the CineForm capture module -- either way is the same quality. The quality advantages of Prospect HD, do not so much occur upon capture, other then support for 1920x1080 and 10-bit sources if you had that. For 8-bit sources the advantage comes when doing color correction, as you now have headroom to support pushing the image around without introducing 8-bit aliasing artifacts like gradient banding or contouring.

Tip McPartland
July 15th, 2007, 11:40 AM
A while ago I updated from Aspect to Prospect, and I have a couple of comments:

1) Does it take quite a bit longer to convert Sony HDV to the 10-bit Prospect intermediates than it did with Aspect?

2) If so, is this because I'm choosing to upconvert the rez from 1440x1080 to 1920x1080 and/or from 8-bit to 10? These are great features, so no gripes, just curiosity.

3) Hats off to your coders, while the above is processing, all four "processors" (two dual core Opterons) are at 99-100%.

Also, let me re-submit my semi-annual request that ingest of 35 Mb/sec XDCAM HD be added to Prospect. The "prospect" of this (pun intended) is one of the reasons that I spent the extra money to upgrade.

Is there a timeline for full XDCAM HD support?

And finally, good luck with your Mac plug-in. Because of their 422 codec I fear you'll have a tough row to hoe. Please don't give too much of your mindshare to that project and lose focus on your thriving PC base. I noticed the .mov file type and realized how deeply this is going. But of course I wish you well with all you do.

Tip

David Taylor
July 16th, 2007, 01:36 PM
A while ago I updated from Aspect to Prospect, and I have a couple of comments:

1) Does it take quite a bit longer to convert Sony HDV to the 10-bit Prospect intermediates than it did with Aspect?

2) If so, is this because I'm choosing to upconvert the rez from 1440x1080 to 1920x1080 and/or from 8-bit to 10? These are great features, so no gripes, just curiosity.
8-bit versus 10-bit doesn't add appreciably to the conversion time nor does it add appreciably to file size. The extra time for conversion is because we apply an excellent Lanczos filter to the up-sampling process.

Is there a timeline for full XDCAM HD support?

It'll be in our next release - coming soon.

And finally, good luck with your Mac plug-in. Because of their 422 codec I fear you'll have a tough row to hoe. Please don't give too much of your mindshare to that project and lose focus on your thriving PC base. I noticed the .mov file type and realized how deeply this is going. But of course I wish you well with all you do.Tip

There are differences between ProRes and CineForm Intermediate. Many of our customers need a cross-platform workflow. We solve that nicely. Also, the use of HD (and beyond) RGB seems to be increasing, and uncompressed RGB files are massive. CineForm 444 is a perfect solution to that. We're too small to go head-to-head with Apple (even though CineForm Intermediate will probably serve in the long-run to be very competitive to ProRes) but we'll focus on where we can add value. We'll also serve the Adobe Suite on Mac very well, although we haven't yet announced full compatibility yet with CS3 on mac.

James Huenergardt
August 15th, 2007, 11:50 AM
I have a question about using the Z1U in Cineframe mode along with Prospect HD and the Intensity Pro card from Black Magic.

If I capture from my Z1U in Cineframe 24 or 25 using the component out into a Black Magic Intensity card using Aspect or Prospect HD (still trying to save up to upgrade to Prospect) will the capture do the same frame interpolation stuff that it does from tape? IOW, will I end up with a 24 or 25P capture?

Thanks,

Jim

David Newman
August 15th, 2007, 12:03 PM
Yes, you will get 24p / 25p captures, with the caveat that Z1U's 24 mode has an non-standard shutter timing. Use CineFrame25.

Sergio Sanchez
August 17th, 2007, 04:49 PM
There seems to be a trouble with the cineon exporter filter and Prospect 2K.
I was trying to export some DPX sequences but somehow when loading them in Scratch they were not LOG, I rendered again and same problem. When I open the shot in Photoshop It was linear too.

I did another export from my Laptop, in wich I only have NEO player installed, Same sequence, Same export and render parameters. And that render looks right.

David Newman
August 17th, 2007, 05:08 PM
Where you running one in 16-bit and the offer in 32-float AE mode. The importer in NEO Player and Prospect 2K are identical, so the must other operation difference.

Sergio Sanchez
August 17th, 2007, 06:14 PM
Both was in 32 bits, Maybe I had a colorspace applied in one of the compositions, disabling colormanagement did the trick.

Sergio Sanchez
August 17th, 2007, 06:17 PM
I supose AE is confused when your are exporting to cineon and at the same time you have a colorspace applied to the project. And somehow it renders giving preference to the colorspace and not to the cineon exporter values.

Does it sound logical or is another thing?

David Newman
August 18th, 2007, 09:23 AM
Your theory is good. The ways of AE sometimes surprise us also.

Jason Rodriguez
August 18th, 2007, 10:58 PM
Hey Sergio, what that looks like to me, is I've seen "linear" from the camera, and your "linear" image doesn't look like a truly photometrically linear image from the camera. Instead what I think is happening is that you're exporting LOG, but the color management in AE is then taking your LOG image and converting it to some type of "print" gamma correction, since that's what the final image resembles . . . it's too bright, especially in the midtones, to be photometrically linear. A photometrically linear (which is a true "linear" image where doubling the pixel value is equal to double the real-world brightness) representation would look VERY dark, in that you would have hard time making out your subject's face, and only the windows would be visible, and most likely hard-clipped (i.e., no knee). I could be wrong, but this is my observation from seeing LOTS of relinearized images from the camera.

Since there seems to be a "knee" to the highlights in that image, and it's only the shadows that are a lot darker (the face is darker too, but the midtones in a photometrically linear image would be much darker than that), it looks to me that whatever was the project working space is re-gamma-correcting the output from LOG to something gamma corrected, like a darker print gamma correction or something of that nature.