I'm up-and-coming in the freelance video production world, recently completing a 45-minute documentary on the town I live in. Now people are seeing my work and contacting me about their projects.

As much as I dislike family projects (slideshows, home movies, etc)... it's money. And today, someone contacted me about creating DVDs.

They have 5-6 MiniDV tapes to be put onto DVD. So lots of capturing time. They need it edited and put in a different order. Lots of editing time. Then they wanted one of their family members to narrate it (I've got recording hardware.). Lots of recording time. Then I need to final edit, master audio, output to DVD.

I was wondering... I created a quote for them, giving them a brief description of each step involved and how long it will take. I figured a total of 39-47 hours and charging them $650.

Would I be better off keeping them in the dark about everything involved? or will that just make them less likely to do it?

Also, if I do show them how much is involved, would I be able to get more money out of the project?

I'm up-and-coming in the freelance video production world, recently completing a 45-minute documentary on the town I live in. Now people are seeing my work and contacting me about their projects.

As much as I dislike family projects (slideshows, home movies, etc)... it's money. And today, someone contacted me about creating DVDs.

They have 5-6 MiniDV tapes to be put onto DVD. So lots of capturing time. They need it edited and put in a different order. Lots of editing time. Then they wanted one of their family members to narrate it (I've got recording hardware.). Lots of recording time. Then I need to final edit, master audio, output to DVD.

I was wondering... I created a quote for them, giving them a brief description of each step involved and how long it will take. I figured a total of 39-47 hours and charging them $650.

Would I be better off keeping them in the dark about everything involved? or will that just make them less likely to do it?

Also, if I do show them how much is involved, would I be able to get more money out of the project?

Is your time only worth $12 an hour even before subtracting out your costs?

Not knowing what the local economy and competition is like there, I won't venture into guesstimating an appropriate charge. Your hours estimate seems reasonable.

I've done a few of these, but only one that involved a narration. I'd recommend billing that time separately. You already know recording the narration is going to take 5 or 6 hours of your time -- assuming the 5 or 6 tapes are about an hour each. What you can't predict is how long it'll actually take to capture 5 or 6 hours of acceptable narration.

In my one experience, the guy doing the narration said he reviewed the video a couple of times, had notes, and was ready to go. Well, various things happened many times -- like forgetting stuff he intended to say -- so we had to back up to some point and record again. More often, he continued to talk about one scene when it was over and a new scene was on screen. Stop. Back up. Record again. Very, very frustrating. And, Josh, if you already have a negative attitude about family projects, this one could test your limits to meltdown.

You could offer a discount if the narrator has a script that's timed to the video so that you won't have to spend 12 hours (and maybe 2 days) to record 6 hours of acceptable audio.

I don't know that explaining what all is involved would command more money. People aren't concerned about your problems, they just want a price and what it's based on. You can go either flat rate for the job, or, estimate # of hours x $ per hour. When I give an estimate, I tend to go just a bit high. People always like it when you hit them with a bill that it is less than the estimate.

Good luck.

hmm...

easier way to work with narration is to use a program which allows for "punch in" recording.. such as Vegas..
during a realtime playback of the dv footage, you can connect ur mic and mix into Vegas. This will give the narrator a better idea abotu timing as well as actual content. If somethign needsa retake, just do it then and there.

Trust me, this method is MUCH more effective than using a recorder.

In addition to that, IMO i think 650 is cheap for something like this. I can tell u now, that this wont take less than 2 actual weeks of hands on work.. u may have calculated your hours, but with al the trial and error thats occuring, i woudl definately say your gonna hit the 100 hr mark before u know it..

As u have already quoted them and u have already started the work, i would recomend u be VERY stringent with ur time and costing from here on in..
You have now set a precedent for ur pricing on this type of subject ad as ur popularity grows, u will obviously increase ur prices.. people WILL notice this ... dont be afraid to say that due to demand, uve had to restructure the package and prices.

Good luck with it.. i for on know that i do not have the time or the patience for this type of project anymore.. i only do this kinda thing with corporates as theyre not emotionally involved.

hmm...

easier way to work with narration is to use a program which allows for "punch in" recording.. such as Vegas..
...

Excellent suggestion - and even more valuable is insist that the narrator actually have a prepared script to follow and not just "wing-it" to some notes he has.

Actually, I haven't given them the quote yet. I'm just thinking over everything.

Another problem I have is that I live in a town of 600 people, and the nearest big town is 10 miles away and has 6000 people.

There aren't many video production places around here. This causes me to: A) Appear to have a monopoly on the customers, and B) Be unable to charge reasonable prices due to lack of competition. (And customers' lack of knowledge.)

How much do you think I should charge? I mean, I understand it's going to be an arduous project, but it can make me some great money.

And at this point, I'm jobless, waiting to return to college after this short, short summer.

The majority of people don't realize how time intensive this kind of work can be. I would think that breaking down each step and how long it will take and informing them of this would help them realize why your quote will be higher than what they expected.

Considering you're a college student, out of work, in a small town, and facing what really amounts to an easy job (compared to busting your ass in construction), $12/hr seems a pretty fair rate. You don't exactly need to bilk this family for every penny you can.

Make a fair assessment of the hours it will take (keeping in mind the unforeseen problems the experienced posters above have stated), then just multiply it out by what you feel your time is worth, keeping one thing in mind: what exactly are your other options right now to make some money. Working for less than it's worth in the beginning is the name of the game. Part of what you're paid is in experience and having a good referral.

Also, would it be weird to give them instructions and maybe some form of agreement? Like "Here are the things you need to provide: MiniDV tapes, narration script, preferred video order, etc." (I'll make that more detailed.)

Then maybe have them sign an agreement or something? Maybe so they can't come back at me and say "Well we wanted this and this" and I can say "You agreed to the terms and prices."

Good/bad?

Also, would it be weird to give them instructions and maybe some form of agreement? Like "Here are the things you need to provide: MiniDV tapes, narration script, preferred video order, etc." (I'll make that more detailed.)

Then maybe have them sign an agreement or something? Maybe so they can't come back at me and say "Well we wanted this and this" and I can say "You agreed to the terms and prices."

Good/bad?

Definitely good. I think everyone here will agree that you always need to cover yourself during any business transaction.

How do you think I should make the agreement?

I mean... I don't really have a lot of terms they need to agree to, so a full sheet of paper would be sort of overkill. What would you recommend?

In my experience, it always takes longer than I predict and I always wish I would of charged more. I wouldn't touch a job like that for under $1500

In my experience, it always takes longer than I predict and I always wish I would of charged more. I wouldn't touch a job like that for under $1500

Yeah, I feel the same way... but honestly, they came to me because they didn't want to go to someone who would charge $1500. So I'm at least giving them what I think is a good bargain, even though I've been doing this for over 3 years now and think my work quality is very well established.

Anyone have recommendations for the agreement? Half-page stuff? Content?

Yes!! Estimating how long a job takes either makes or breaks your business or your spirit. As a double check I always estimate the time by working backwards as well. e.g. I estimate it may take two hours to do the voice over. I then say if the job has to be completed by 12 o'clock I'm safe to begin at 10 o'clock and have the job done. This is a good reality check as it is easy to underestimate the time involved. By working backwards from a deadline you are inclined to alot more time which comes closer to the actual time it takes. Hope all this makes sense :)

I would also bill out the voice over narration separately and here's why. Tell them it's going to cost x dollars/hour to record at your location. Then, offer to give the narrator a low resolution copy of the rough edit so they can write a script and rehearse the timing. That way, when they come to do the actual recording, it should take fewer hours. I know that's less money for you potentially, but it beats giving them a package price and then having to spend countless hours with someone who is unprepared like the example given above. Separate billing will encourage the voice over person to have their stuff together so that it doesn't cost the family a lot of money.

-gb-

Yeah, I actually just went through the quote I typed up and make certain parts red to highlight they were optional and pertained to the voice over. Then I gave them the option of eliminating the voice over. Since that would be a huge pain.

But yeah, I could do the rough edit thing, but that's still me burning 3 DVDs for just that rough edit.

This is a PS to my post about a dozen frames back.

The narration experience I mentioned was for video originally shot on Super8 film (no sound) that was transferred to tape, so there was zero audio to begin with. A lot of narration was required for that one. Josh, if you'll be working with video shot with a camcorder, then it's probably packed with audio already. Could be the amount of narration needed for your project would be minimal -- just a few words every now and then like "This is our expedition in 1988 to Mt Everest," "This is base camp #1......"

I'm working with a similiar project right now, but instead of narration, I convinced the client adding titles and subtitles would be better. For example, on the video track would be a title like "1988 Mt Everest expedition." Then, where any additional explanation is needed would be a subtitle like "Sherpa who fell in crevasse." The subtitle option works really well since whoever is watching can turn them on or off depending on how much they know, or how much they care to know about the who, what, why, where or when of the action on screen.

Personally, I'm anti-narrator for home movies. People watch play-by-play announcers and various talking heads on TV, and think they can do the same w/o any training, experience or practice. I'd rather sit typing subtitles all day long than go thru my aforementioned amateur narrator experience again.

And you can charge extra for the subtitles since they really can give home movies a 'pro' look.

That's a pretty good idea! Maybe I'll do that, because guess what?? I'm in the same boat you were in with that voice over project! This was ALL Super8 film transferred to video! All 5-6 MiniDV tapes!

I'd suggest quoting a higher price for this project, like at least $750. If they ask why so much you can explain that it's a time-consuming and equipment-intensive project which would cost at least 2-3 times as much to have done in a big city. Quote too low on this job and everyone in town will expect a similar deal and come running to you with everything they can think of, which could overwhelm you and end end up making both you and your customers unhappy. So pick a price which is high enough to make customers respect your time and talent without feeling like you're taking advantage of them; $650 is too low for all that work.

This is ALL Super8 film transferred to video! All 5-6 MiniDV tapes!

I wouldn't wish a job like that on my worst competitor.

Well, it can be kind of interesting. You'll be looking at footage that's about 30-years old. You'll probably have to do a lot of color correction, and, depending on how well or poorly the transfer to tape was done, you might end up spending a lot of time snipping out 4 or 5 frames (film splices) every so often.

Back when that stuff was shot, the price per minute (film+developing) was relatively expensive -- as compared to videotape now. So, it's likely few, if any, 'takes' are more than 10 or 15-seconds before a complete scene change. Most are even shorter. That's why it's hard to narrate to, especially if the narrator(s) can't think quickly & speak concisely.

Slightly off subject, but if your software can do it, (and you take on this job) you might need to slow down the video a bit. As I recall, I had to slow it to 80% for movement like walking to look natural.

For sentimental purposes, for the family to hear grandpa's voice (after he's moved on to his just reward) talking about that 36" fish he caught in '71 while that scene is flickering on the tv is priceless. But it's time consuming. That level of production needs a family member working on it -- for free and for about 6+ months -- to get some narration from everyone on the film who's still alive and able to talk through some of the scenes they're in.

But, you're not a family member and I'd guess you're not about to do it for free.

If you're okay with typing subtitles for several hours, that's the way to go. Throw some music on top & you're done. Or, consider this. I did this a few times to get the exact places the client wanted scenes cut & pasted, but it would also work well for subtitles: When the project is ready for subtitles, throw on a timecode generator and give the client a copy of the whole video w/ continuous timecode superimposed from beginning to end.

Tell the client to type in a plain text document the exact timecode when each subtitle is supposed to appear, and the text of the subtitle.

Example:
00:12:21;15 3-ft fish caught at Mud Lake
00:13:45;00 Eating the 3-ft fish

That should take the client a few months to do 5 - 6 hours of silent film, but, if he/she is able to do it, you can then clip & paste the text, and save a big chunk of time.

Of course, once the client realizes the work required to type at least 5 hours worth of subtitles, they'll probably insist on doing narration.