If money were no object, which would you buy?

Money no object?

Both. Throw in the HVX while your at it for good measure.

JVC for true progressive scan and fully manual lens.

If money were no object, which would you buy?
This is probably the wrong forum to ask this question because it will be hard to get an unbiased opinion.

If money was no object though, I would go for the HD250 and the 13x3.5 lens.

Ok assuming money is no object and you have to buy either a HD110 or a XL H1...

I recently bought a HD101 (nice and cheap thanks to the HD111 being about to appear) after having used a XL1s for about four years. I haven't had too much chance to put my new HD101 fully through its paces, but beforehand I had the same choice. I wanted a shoulder mounted camera so the XL H1 and HD101 were basically my only options. The price of the XL H1 was a factor for me, but even if it wasn't, I probably still would have gone with the HD101.

Why?
-HD101 comes with a real fully manual lens unlike the XL H1's servo based lens. Give you better, more responsive control, repeatable focus pulls etc.
-While I bought my HD101 to use as a SD camera for now, I will want to start working which HDV eventually, and 720p25 appeals to me more than 1080i50, I'm sick of having to deal with interlaced footage and its problems
-The HD101 is laid out more like a professional camera than the XL H1 which does give you almost all the same control but in a manner that is a bit of a holdover from lower end cameras. HD101 is the child of fully proffessional cameras

And I know we weren't meant to talk price but it is a factor... The XL H1's main advantage over other cameras is the "jackpack" (SDI, timecode, genlock) which is completely irrelevant for my workflow. So take that out of the equation and the JVC is just as good (and better in some areas as I've mentioned).

If you can get the HD100. It comes with a free Anton Bauer Battery System. The features of the HD110 are nice, but I would rather get the free battery system.

I posted this in the Canon Forum:

Battery Life - JVC by far at this point. It comes with the Anton Bauer Battery Setup Now (I got mine in about 3 weeks! Over 400 Min Runtime).

Comfort - I haven't had a Canon to test, but the JVC is EXTREMELY comfortable on the shoulder, and in the Texas Shootout, it won at being the most stable of the HD Cameras. It is setup VERY Professionally.

Slow-Mo - The HD100 also has SD-50/60 HDV (A Rather Awesome and unknown feature) that can get Upconverted to HD with great results and can be converted to a 24P/30P timeline for overcranking.

Tapless - The Focus DR-HD100 is awesome and is available now. They are also making one for the Canon, but it is not out yet.

FOCUS-ASSIST!!!!!!! Since you are not using a monitor (neither can I), this is a MUST! In every shootout, the JVC ALWAYS wins when it comes to the Focus Assist out of the HD Bunch. It turns the viewfinder black and white, and outlines what is in focus by colored lines. It is VERY accurate. NONE of the HD Cams have enough Pixels in the viewfinder or LCD to Focus HD properly.

1080i vs. 720P - After shooting progressive, I NEVER want to go back to Interlaced again. If you plan to shoot in the 30f or 24f, they lose Resolution. The Canon does have a crisper picture, but the JVC does better with skin tones. The JVC usually comes in second out of the 4 (just under the Canon), but it is a Native 1280x720 3-CCD that does not use pixel conversions.

And even though I'm still for progressive 720p, one would have to ask,if form factor didn't come into it, is the new Canon a serious contender depending on what your use will be. Pricing is pretty close!

Have they developed a deck for Canon yet? I've lost track of the H1 lately.

HD100- They are holding over the Anton Bauer power promo. That's over $1000 worth of reliable juice, something you never seem to have enough of. I went ahead and bought a spare Dionic 90 for around $400, and a spare JVC,,, just in case. I love it... at least until fatigue starts setting in.

While talking about the H1, is Canon going to offer the 6x3.4mm lens for the JVC HD series cameras? it apparently lists for $3k.

Not in its present form, no. Not only is the Canon XL lens mount incompatible with the JVC camera, but you'd have no practical way to control it. There's no hand grip on that lens; all you have are the manual control rings. Since the Canon XL lens mount interface isn't compatible with the JVC front lens mount, that means there's no way for power to get from the camera body to the lens. Plus... there's no remote control either, as the Canon lens is remotely controlled by LANC and there is no LANC jack on the JVC camera body.

If this lens design is *specifically adapted* for the JVC (to include a hand grip, plus a compatible lens mount) then I would image that $3,000 price would probably double.

Hello All,
I have had the JVC HD100 for almost a year and
it has taken me that long to become proficient with using it, a steep but enjoyable learning curve. The 720p images are awesome ...I just purchased an XL H1 and am not too impressed with with its body (alot of plastic) or its 1080 60i images. I have yet to tweak the Canon...we'll see.

Thanks for the input. I already own the HD100 (didnt get the battery promo though). I also have an XL2 and several Digital Betacams, but am considering another lowcost HD camera.

My original question was about the HD110 vs XL H1, I am considering the Canon because I need HD SDI out to feed our edit systems (Avid Adrenaline and Smoke 2K).

We will also add a Mini35 adapter to the new camera package.

This is probably the wrong forum to ask this question because it will be hard to get an unbiased opinion.

If money was no object though, I would go for the HD250 and the 13x3.5 lens.

When is this shipping? Cost?

Not in its present form, no. Not only is the Canon XL lens mount incompatible with the JVC camera, but you'd have no practical way to control it. There's no hand grip on that lens; all you have are the manual control rings. Since the Canon XL lens mount interface isn't compatible with the JVC front lens mount, that means there's no way for power to get from the camera body to the lens. Plus... there's no remote control either, as the Canon lens is remotely controlled by LANC and there is no LANC jack on the JVC camera body.

If this lens design is *specifically adapted* for the JVC (to include a hand grip, plus a compatible lens mount) then I would image that $3,000 price would probably double.
Other Canon lenses don't have a premium for JVC cameras, do they? Maybe a slight premium over the equivalent Fujinon.

I've always looked at Canon vs. Fujinon as pretty much a Ford / Chevy argument. They're both great. They both have an amazing product line, a legacy for high quality and solid reputations. You'll find plenty of dedicated fans in both camps. I think the pricing is your general guide... it's not so much one manufacturer being "better" than the other, as it is that the more expensive lenses are "better" regardless of who makes them.

Chris is right. The HD100 uses ENG style lenses which is a whole different ballpark than the dedicated lenses for the H1. And even within ENG lenses there are "professional" lenses and then there are "broadcast" lenses. It's not unusual for a broadcast lens to cost $10K or even $20k.

Fujinon will be expanding their 1/3" lenses for the HD100 later this year. Among them is a premium HD lens with all the bells and whistles of a digital servo (DigiPower). It will probably cost around $10K. Canon will also introduce it's first 1/3" lens for the HD100 later this year and I think it's also pretty expensive ($5K and up).

Thanks Tim, thats good to know there will be something less than the 13k msrp lens out now. Hoping street prices will bring them down even further.

When is this shipping? Cost?

Hi Greg,

The GY-HD250U is estimated to ship around October or November, at an estimated list price of $8995.00 for the head. It will use the same accessories and lenses that the GY-HD100U / GY-HD110U use. Standard bayonet lens mount that can accomodate your choice of now 5 different 1/3" lenses, or 1/2" or 2/3" lenses with a small adaptor, or many different prime and still camera lenses.

I think the GY-HD250U will have the kind of features you are seeking. It will have all of the features of the GY-HD110U, plus these key new features:

HD-SDI out / SDI out
Component out and composite out at the same time
Dedicated audio outs
Time Code in / Time code out
CCU control port
Genlock in
Five HD record modes: 720p/24; 720p/25; 720p/30; 720p/50; 720p/60


Regards, Carl

Thanks Carl,
Is there any way to take advantage of the SDI out in the field and record an uncompressed signal?

Will the cameras SDI out work on HDV playback from the camera?

Greg,

There are several HD-SDI recorders that you could connect the camera to. Tape based formats, like HDCam, D5-HD, or DVCPro HD. Or disc-based products, like Doremi Labs, Grass Valley, Leitch, or Cineform. Although none of these product are exactly "portable", you could use them with the GY-HD250U to record HD-SDI.

Check out the Waifain HR-1. It looks interesting:

http://www.cineform.com/products/WafianHR1.htm

And yes, upon tape playback, the GY-HD250 will output the signal, uncompressed, on the SDI / HDSDI connector.

Regards, Carl

If only it wasn't it $15k!!!

Since that unit will also record from the the HD100/110/200, how would the quality compare with HD250, all recorded directly to Cineform? Do you have samples???

Question: Does this also bypass the HD100 audio compression?

If only it wasn't it $15k!!! - Yes, but that's a whole lot less than a high-end HD VTR.

Since that unit will also record from the the HD100/110/200, how would the quality compare with HD250, all recorded directly to Cineform? Do you have samples???

- The quality of uncompressed component HD from a GYHD100/110/200 recorded on the Wafain vs uncompressed HDSDI from a GY-HD250U recorded on the Wafain should be close. But, of course since the GY-HD250U is not a shippping product yet, there have been no tests done.

Question: Does this also bypass the HD100 audio compression?

You could just feed the audio straight in to the Wafain recorder, thus bypassing the camera. You'd probably want to do that anyway to keep the audio path balanced XLR, as the camera does not have XLR outputs.

Greg,

And yes, upon tape playback, the GY-HD250 will output the signal, uncompressed, on the SDI / HDSDI connector.

Regards, Carl


Carl-
The SDI / HDSDI connector plays from tape uncompressed??
How is this possible, the tape records a HDV compressed signal?

When is this shipping? Cost?

Greg, Hey there! Good to see you on HDVinfo!
As Carl mentioned, estimated List is going to be somewhere around $8995 for camerahead only (possibly viewfinder included). A working ENG package with lens will be close to $12K and studio packages will be around $20 - 25K depending on the lens.

Scott Cantrell
TapeWorks Texas Inc - HDVinfo Sponser
www.tapeworkstexas.com
scott@tapeworkstexas.com
866-827-3489

Carl-
The SDI / HDSDI connector plays from tape uncompressed??
How is this possible, the tape records a HDV compressed signal?

Greg, the JVC ProHD camcorders, just like all HDV camcorders, and other format HD camcorders, record the HD data in a compressed (MPEG-2 encoded) form on the tape. When the tape is played back, the compressed data is decompressed (MPEG-2 decoded), and the resulting uncompressed signal is sent to the SDI / HDSDI connector. So, yes, the signal on tape is compressesd, but when you play the tape back, the output signal on the SDI / HDSDI connector is uncompressed.

If you have the camera set up live, the signal on the SDI / HDSDI is uncompressed.

Greg, the JVC ProHD camcorders, just like all HDV camcorders, and other format HD camcorders, record the HD data in a compressed (MPEG-2 encoded) form on the tape. When the tape is played back, the compressed data is decompressed (MPEG-2 decoded), and the resulting uncompressed signal is sent to the SDI / HDSDI connector. So, yes, the signal on tape is compressesd, but when you play the tape back, the output signal on the SDI / HDSDI connector is uncompressed.

If you have the camera set up live, the signal on the SDI / HDSDI is uncompressed.

So, are you saying that the playback from HDV tape thru this HDSDI will look as good as the original signal? Sounds like a miracle!

So, are you saying that the playback from HDV tape thru this HDSDI will look as good as the original signal? Sounds like a miracle!

Hi Greg,

No, I did not ever say that it would be identical. Certainly, with any video tape recording, there is some loss, sometimes a very little, sometimes more than a little. You will have to be the judge for it your self when the camera ships.

You asked if the signal out of the HD-SDI connector upon tape playback is uncompressed, and the answer is yes. It's an uncompressed signal, sourced from the decompression of a compressed signal. In that regard, it's just the same function as a HDCam or Varicam camcorder or VTR.

There is no HD video tape format that I know of that does not have some sort of compression.

Thanks Carl,
I always assumed the HDSDI out would only play the compressed HDV signal, and the only way to get uncompressed out of the camera was "live".
Thanks for the clairification.