SO I'm really glad that they released the xh-g1 and all that but why would anyone want an XL-h1 now (that doesn't have embeded audio and time code) when they could get the little brother that has all the same features except and interchangable lens?

The only thing that really bothers me is that canon finally released a camera to HD-SDI spec and it's 2k cheaper then the "flagship camera" so now XL-H1 owners have to spend another 2k to buy a miranda device if we want the same functions as a cheaper model. Maybe they'll offer an upgrade program?

Yeah that's a really good question Nick. I don't know if there's any credence to this story, but it's been mentioned before that a possible reason why Canon left audio and TC out of the SDI on the H1, was due to a SMPTE license thing. But now the JVC GY-HD250 comes along and they have it. Now Canon has it in the $7000 G1. Maybe something changed with the cost of obtaining that license (SMPTE 299M) within the past year? It's a head-scratcher all right.

Can the jackpack be updated with software? In other words, can a simple bios update "turn on" the audio and timecode in the HD-SDI stream?

Or will this require Canon to release an XL-H1s camera soon?

A firmware upgrade offer would be a nice gesture, wouldn't it? No way would it ever be free. What's it worth to you? I have no idea what a reasonable charge would be. It might even require a different board in there for that matter... who knows. That is, who knows, who can actually speak to this question publicly.

Yup. I was wondering the same thing about the design of the board. Part of me hopes Canon was forward looking wrt to buying that SMTP license. You know, design a board once and turn off certain features until you release future models.

I would be willing to spend around $250 for the bios update if it were truly an option. Maybe $300. But that's about it.

I'm in the same palce as robert, I would probably go around 300 bucks for the update, of course I just got my camera back from canon service (for yearly maintenance, quick turn around time) so if I had to spend another 150 bucks sending it out to them right away i probably wouldn't be too happy. I guess the whole thing seems a little fishy, or maybe just crummy, but I guess that's what you get for being an early adopter.

Yeah I was thinking maybe $200 to $300 but didn't want to be the first to say it. At least you guys have the advantage of walking it into Irvine. I wonder how many people have shipped their H1's in for the 50i European upgrade... maybe Canon should bundle a deal, get the 50i upgrade plus embedded audio and TC into SDI for a package price of say $600. If you ask me, the 50i upgrade is already too expensive at $500. Heck for $500 you should get the 50i upgrade, an SDI upgrade *and* a copy of Console. But that's just me.

I second that verdict Chris.

Somehow I doubt a bios update will enable the audio+timecode. One can hope, though.

That would be quite smart

Yeah I was thinking maybe $200 to $300 but didn't want to be the first to say it. At least you guys have the advantage of walking it into Irvine. I wonder how many people have shipped their H1's in for the 50i European upgrade... maybe Canon should bundle a deal, get the 50i upgrade plus embedded audio and TC into SDI for a package price of say $600. If you ask me, the 50i upgrade is already too expensive at $500. Heck for $500 you should get the 50i upgrade, an SDI upgrade *and* a copy of Console. But that's just me.

Yeah I was thinking maybe $200 to $300 but didn't want to be the first to say it. At least you guys have the advantage of walking it into Irvine. I wonder how many people have shipped their H1's in for the 50i European upgrade... maybe Canon should bundle a deal, get the 50i upgrade plus embedded audio and TC into SDI for a package price of say $600. If you ask me, the 50i upgrade is already too expensive at $500. Heck for $500 you should get the 50i upgrade, an SDI upgrade *and* a copy of Console. But that's just me.

Well come on then chris use some of that canon pull that you have and get us embedded audio and timecode ;)

Geez Nick, you think I've got Canon pull? The only pull I have with Canon suits is, if I ask nice enough, they *might* let me pull their luggage carts through the airport.

I would also spend $300 right away to get timecode & audio over the SDI. I hope Canon is paying attention...

Kevin

it pisses me off that they did this. if it had TC and audio in the hd-sdi then i would be using it alot more that i do atm. the way i feel is that they screwed us good and proper. if they dont offer a firmware upgrade for free i'll probably sell my H1. if they need to chnage a componant or something i dont mind paying say $200 but more than that is out fo the question.

if they need to chnage a componant or something i dont mind paying say $200 but more than that is out fo the question.

Don't know whether this really is the case, but when I recently asked for the 30F/60i/24F for my PAL version, I was told that it requires a change of component(s) and that's why it costs quite a lot. That is, with the shipping costs in total about 800 euro, which gets close to 1.000 bucks. But, if components are changed, maybe that's possible also for the audio and TC in HD-SDI.

Truth be told, if it's less then the miranda HD-sdi to HD-sdi adapter, to upgrade then I think it's worthwhile... I mean with the miranda you have to have the box, power and those cables running to it... But I'm right there with charles.

Maybe when chris is pulling the canon suits luggage through the airport he can plant something on them that we can use for blackmail until we get embedded a+t on hd-sdi.

Maybe when chris is pulling the canon suits luggage through the airport he can plant something on them that we can use for blackmail until we get embedded a+t on hd-sdi.Your wish is my command... consider it done.

Count us in for willingness to pay $200-$300 for the embedding of audio & timecode in the SDI.

Have to admit to disappointment seeing the new little brothers had this feature which kind of indicates something got overlooked on our H1's.

I am very pleased that Canon added audio and timecode to the new cameras.

I believe that it would be very good for customer relations, for both consumers and professionals, if Canon would provide an upgrade for the XL-H1.

I assume that audio and timecode were left out for a reason, either time to market, or for some other unknown reason.

But now that they have done it in another camera, one that uses very similar firmware, it is in their best interests to provide an upgrade for the XL-H1's.

If this requires a cost to the consumer, so be it. Just keep in reasonable. Our investments in the XL-H1 line should not be made obsolete so soon.

Personally, I would like to see the XL-H1 be field upgradable in the future. They already have a computer on board, and the SD card as an input device. With the proper foresight and computer code, the camera could be field upgradable, just like the Sound Devices 744t line of recorders.

In fact, providing field upgradability will help them in the future. As these cameras get more complex, it is increasing hard to ensure that every single feature works in conjunction with every other feature. Having field upgradabilty will assist Canon if an error every does make it into the field.

An example of an error that could be fixed with field upgradability is the "Focus Preset" speeds. This feature could be made usable with a software adjustment.

Field upgradability eliminates the transportation costs back and forth to Canon and the inherent risks involved, as well as the inconvenience.

Would it be possible to do some sort of firmware upgrade to allow embedded HD-SDI output for our XL-H1 ?

The answer seems to be , no .

I just receceived this from Canon :

"Canon does not produce or provide software with this function.
Unfortunately, we can offer no advice on third party programs. Those
programs are supported by the software companies. Because there are so
many programs available, it is not possible for us to offer support or
to catalog those programs. We recommend that you contact the software
manufacturers, or perhaps visit their websites, to find the information
you seek. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause."

Never say die.

I started a poll about the viability of such an idea, please cast your votes!

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=72448

That reads like "canned" customer service representative text. Like any big company, whether Canon has something in the works -- or not -- but isn't ready to release it, that's the kind of response you'll get. I think we'll just have to wait and see.

I'm optimistic that there'll be an upgrade path for embedded audio and TC in the XL H1 because any company is going to have a product roadmap, and these products are obviously a line of cameras, with similar or identical major components and feature sets that are either parallel or complementary to other cameras in the line. In other words, I suspect that the decision to put video-only HD-SDI in the XL H1 and to put the whole enchilada into a "little brother" camera coming out less than a year later was made long ago as the Pro line concept was being developed. In making that decision, the designers of Canon's Pro Video Line could not have failed to realize that H1 owners would be unhappy about this. So those who are most unhappy will be willing to fork over some cash to get the feature...although (cruel) savvy marketers would wait to make this announcement until after the little brother's initial sales rush.

Trust is easy to lose and very difficult to regain. I'll join the chorus saying that if Canon turns out to NOT have an upgrade path, and soon, it is a Big Black Eye for the company and will definitely hurt their pro line as wary prospective customers move to competitor's products that match or leapfrog the new Canon cameras. But I'm thinking that Canon execs know all this perfectly well and have an upgrade path tucked in their hip pocket. Maybe I'm in left field about this, but hope not.

I can see the board meeting now.

Good hearted canon guy in the cornor: Um sir, if we introduce a camera with embedded time-code and audio plus a whole bunch of features won't the people who bought our "flagship camera" be a little pissed off?

Evil Coporate guy (who also is making the stock go up): Sure they will, but we already have THEIR money...

Personally I have no trust in canon's support of the xl-h1 it's a great camera but I honestly don't think they care about it nearly as much as these two new camera's and definitely not enough to bother with some upgrade program. (have they ever done an upgrade program?)

But hey if something on this website convinces them to do it I'll pay for chris hurd's upgrade (uh, up to 400 bucks) or send him some shiner bock at the very least.

I wouldn't say no to Shiner Bock, but in all honesty I'll be happiest (and most relieved) if I don't get that knock on my door in the middle of the night, and bundled into the trunk of a car by some Teamsters.

There was a free upgrade program back in January 1998 for the original Canon XL1 to take care of a mysterious video noise issue, but I don't know how many people actually took advantage of it.

I agree with Nick that we should not only see the SDI get caught up with the smaller, less expensive cameras, but the custom presets firmware ought to be made compatible as well. That's a real fly in the ointment if folks are trying to do a multicam shoot. Of course none of us knows if they designed the H1 to allow a firmware-only upgrade of the SDI or whether it requires parts, but I'd guess the presets are a firmware-only deal?

I agree with Pete, the custom presets should be made compatible as well.

The "custom presets" feature is just amazing on this camera. What a wonderful tool!

Imagine the goodwill that Canon will generate if they decide to do the upgrade for free or at a very reasonable cost!

It seems obvious to me that Canon wanted to include embedded audio and timecode in the XL H1 audio stream all along, but couldn't for some reason. Canon took great effort to put every other desirable feature into the camera.

If and when this upgrade comes true, I would want the "Focus Preset" speeds to be upgraded as well. We need something better that "Fast, Faster, Fastest". It is relatively easy to add more options, or just change the speeds of the current options.

It appears to me that many XL H1 owners will be purchasing the new cameras as a second camera. Making them compatible would ease the workload.

Chris, you may consider starting a poll of how many XL H1 owners will be purchasing one or more of the new A1/G1 cameras.

It would also be interesting to know which model is being considered for purchase. For example, I want a second camera, but I would also like to be able to sync both cameras to the same timecode. But the additional $3000 to add "Timecode In" makes it a tough call.

What thrills me, with the new announcement is that how the overall acceptance/market share of Canon's XL-H1/A1/G1 will go up now that they are a line of well respected cameras instead of one fairly limited edition model.

This is great for everyone as the XL H1/A1/G1 various recording modes will become incorporated faster into all professional non-linear editors. Also, other companies will want to produce a deck that supports all of the XL H1/A1/G1 modes, as there will be significant numbers of these units in the field. Once we have critical mass, other devices such as a lower cost HD-SDI field recorder may become available.

This is good for Canon and us in other ways also. While the thought of purchasing two XL H1's may intimidate, one XL H1 plus one of the A1/G1's may not. I would much rather have two nearly identical cameras than two different brands.