If I recall correctly from testing the XL-H1, the side thingy may have some lights in it so you can read the dial and display in the dark. This should be one very sweet camera... why the heck didn't they ship it last year?!?

Just look at it this way. If we hadn't bought those FX1s and Z1s in such great numbers, Canon wouldn't have made these moves. Sony, what's next ? HDV harddrive recording with dockable drive ??

If I recall correctly from testing the XL-H1, the side thingy may have some lights in it so you can read the dial and display in the dark. This should be one very sweet camera... why the heck didn't they ship it last year?!?

All of the XL series cameras, from the XL1 to XLH1 have a back light that can be turned on to see the LCD in darkness. Push the button, you get about 3 seconds...hold the button for a few seconds and it stays on until you turn it off again.

The only difference that I'm aware of, and Pete Bauer can help is that the XLH1 has a blue backlight while the XL2 and previous models had white backlighting.

-gb-

USA site:

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelDetailAct&fcategoryid=175&modelid=14057

and

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelDetailAct&fcategoryid=175&modelid=14061

heath

All of the XL series cameras, from the XL1 to XLH1 have a back light that can be turned on to see the LCD in darkness. Push the button, you get about 3 seconds...hold the button for a few seconds and it stays on until you turn it off again.

The only difference that I'm aware of, and Pete Bauer can help is that the XLH1 has a blue backlight while the XL2 and previous models had white backlighting.

-gb-
I sure hope that the XH G1/A1 has a blue back light! That would be a great color blend!

Greg, I have an XL1s and if I'm correct, I think it has blue backlight too. Well, a kind of blue green blacklight.

Not that this is on topic :-)

What is the lens range in relation to a 35mm equivalent?

[EDIT]
Ok the lens range is
32.5mm – 650mm (35mm equivalent)
Would have been nice if they could have at least hit 28mm on the wide end. Most cameras lack a good wide angle. But I guess this is pretty close.

The only difference that I'm aware of, and Pete Bauer can help is that the XLH1 has a blue backlight while the XL2 and previous models had white backlighting.
-gb-The XL H1 Mode Select (HD/F1/F2) and DV/HDV 1394 indicator are a bright blue color LED. The round dial LCD is standard wristwatch-greenish backlit, exactly as with previous XL cameras.

Anyone want to venture a guess. Metal or plastic body construction...

the best thing about this new camera release is that my internal conversation about the next camera is OVER! (which leaves a little room to have a much more in-depth internal conversation about what to do about my next editing system!)

things i am no longer thinking:

"...but the zoom on this FX-1 just isn't cutting it!"

"i could get a used Z1 and be using it now instead of waiting"

"the H1 is just too rich for me, and my second cams aren't a good match"

"should i wait for RED. what the heck is RED anyway?"

"as a southpaw, i hate the XL2 form factor, do i want to translate this hatred to an H1 for a lot of money??"

now i don't have this junk in my head! bonus!

The XL H1 Mode Select (HD/F1/F2) and DV/HDV 1394 indicator are a bright blue color LED. The round dial LCD is standard wristwatch-greenish backlit, exactly as with previous XL cameras.

Thanks for the clarification, Pete. I said white on the earlier models but you're right, it's a greenish background. Gee, how quickly we forget once our cameras are gone. (grin)

-gb-

Anyone want to venture a guess. Metal or plastic body construction...

It's probably metal. The lens barrel is definitely metal. It has the same slightly crinkled finish as a Canon L series EF lens.

What is the lens range in relation to a 35mm equivalent?Once again: Here's your XH Series F.A.Q. (http://www.dvinfo.net/canonxh/xhfaq.php) -- and I'm looking for suggestions as to what else I can add to it.

Best advice I give to everyone is this:

1. Test as many cameras as possible, see how the image is under different situations (bright/low light, indoors, outdoors, etc.).

2. What features do you need? See which one comes close to addressing what you want out of a camera. If all you're looking for is 24p/f, the HD100 or the Canons may be what you're looking for. Or maybe not, because going to 24p with a Sony is easy.

3. If you need a camera now, buy it now. If you don't, wait.

4. Remember, it's just a tool. Which camera you pick doesn't make a difference if you can or cannot shoot well. When I show a short (www.releasememovie.com) I did with my DP Jon Fordham, people love it. When I say we shot on the HD10, they're blown away, saying how could we do just a great job? Well, Fordham is a great DP, and understood the camera's strengths and weaknesses. Same with another short film (www.904am.com/3sisters.php) that was shot on an FX1 with CineFrame 24 on. How did we do it with minimal issues with stuttering? We watched out for too much movement, etc.

heath

Can someone remind me, does Canon HDV (not the 24F) playback in the Sony HDV decks?

Great to see the 50i/60i 24/25p can be optioned on the new cameras.

Is that a real iris ring on that lens? (tears of joy)

Does the front mic protrude past the lens?

If you can put HD-SDI on a 7K camera, why can't anyone make a HDV deck with it?

Sony plays back 60i and I think 30f, but not 24f. I tested it myself, thanks to some footage from Chris Hurd and Barry Green.

heath

Also, Canon has never made a deck before. When I owned an XL1 years ago, I bought a Sony minidv deck (the tiny one, not the DSR series) to play back and record footage. I always get nervous about tapes in my camera and using it for a deck. I had a disaster after I sold said Sony deck...

heath

How about the weight of these puppies? I am curious to see if I'd be able to use my merlin steadicam.

Someone quoted 2100 to 2200 grams depending on model My conversion says over 4.5 lbs.

2100g is 4.6lb

... And with the Steadicam Merlin able to fly up to 5.5lb, both these cameras will almost certainly fly perfectly. :)


- Mikko

Mikko why did I know that you'd relate this to the Merlin, ha ha.

Hmmmmm, no component out? bummer (sorry folks, you were having to much fun:).

I was just wondering that. The XL H1 has HD SDI and Component out.

hwm

Hmmmmm, no component out? bummerYes of course both XH cams have component out.

See the sixth photo down from the top of this page: http://www.dvinfo.net/canonxh/articles/images1.php

It's the same "D Terminal" type connector as the XL H1.

Hmmmmm, no component out?

That's clearly visible in the picture of the rear output jacks, down below the AV jack.

Yes, they do. Look at the close up of the left-hand side of the camera from Chris's XH Series Watchdog page: http://www.dvinfo.net/canonxh/images/imgg1buttonsb.jpg You will notice the "Open" button near the top right.

Basically, any HDV camcorder is tape based at this time and records on to standard MiniDV tapes.

Jeff, that's the latch to open the LCD screen. The tape loads on the right side.

Jeff, that's the latch to open the LCD screen. The tape loads on the right side.

Ah, I stand corrected. Good catch, Dave! I was looking for it to be in the same place as my Z1U.

Of course it should say "Open/Eject" for the tape carrier access. Here is a picture that does show this button. Look at the third and sixth photo on this page: http://www.dvinfo.net/canonxh/articles/images2.php

The tape carrier is on the right-hand side as Dave states. The open/eject button is on the top right next to the zoom rocker.

Wait a sec, since the XHG1 has both audio and video out on the HD-SDI outputs, is there going to be an "XLH1s" to add this function since the XLH1 only does video out on its HD-SDI?

I'm also a little confused at the moment. If I can get uncompressed 4:2:2 HD out of the XHG1, then why would I get an HVX200? I know P2 is an easier solution and I never have to settle for HDV under any circumstances, plus it's cheaper by $1,000 or so depeding where I get one, but the XHG1 looks pretty snazzy at the moment.

I suppose I'll have to wait and see one when they come out, but I hope Panasonic or even Sony have some sort of response ready or pull the "New Canon Camera Panic!!!"-switch we all know they have. I'm not a fan of HDV or the "f" modes, but if I can get the ease of use of HDV with the option for uncompressed output, plus the option to use my current Canon GL1 battery collection, then I may just pick one up by next summer.

But this is all assuming that the RED or SI cameras aren't all they've been hyped up to be when they officially launch.

...is there going to be an "XLH1s" to add this function since the XLH1 only does video out on its HD-SDI?That exact question is currently being discussed in our XL H1 forum at this very moment:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=72349

Please direct any responses on this subject to that particular thread. Thanks,

I'm also a little confused at the moment. If I can get uncompressed 4:2:2 HD out of the XHG1, then why would I get an HVX200? I know P2 is an easier solution and I never have to settle for HDV under any circumstances, plus it's cheaper by $1,000 or so depeding where I get one, but the XHG1 looks pretty snazzy at the moment.

Bottom line for people buying the HVX200 seems to be that it's the most convenient way to record DVCProHD footage with a 'look' that HDV can't match. But an HVX200 with 16 minutes worth of P2 memory costs as much today as two of the entry-level Canons will cost in a few weeks, so depending on your needs that's a big price gap. I think both product lines will continue to be successful, but anyone doing long-form work should wait for the Canons.

P2 and its tapeless workflow definitely has its place; that's why I've been reluctant to write up a "camcorder comparison" chart with the HVX200 or anything else for that matter. The Canon XH camcorders really compare fairly only to the Sony Z1 and FX1, but even then it might not be all that fair of a comparison. Maybe whatever Sony brings out next will be though.

P2 is a workflow decision... it's also the least expensive way to get into the DVCPRO HD format. I've always tried to impress upon people to choose the format first, then worry about the camera. Hence, why bother with camera comparison charts. For HDV 1080i, it's pretty much between the Sony FX1 / Z1 and the Canon XH, unless you need the big 'ol Canon H1 or the tiny little Sony A1. Right tool for the right job, eh?

I've always tried to impress upon people to choose the format first, then worry about the camera.

Or if you have specific ideas about what you want in terms of camera design, you can start from that. Up until now all the low-cost HD cameras have been so different from each other that it was pretty easy to pick on that basis, with recording format being just one of the important variables. With the new Canon cameras it gets tougher because they clearly compete directly with the Sonys and offer an interesting alternative to JVC and Panasonic at a competitive price. I would think a comparison chart could be useful at this point, with a large disclaimer at the top not to consider any one specification critical unless you know it's critical for you. And by all means "try before you buy" for any HD camera, if you can arrange to do so.

P2 and its tapeless workflow definitely has its place...

To be thorough, there are tapeless workflow options for HDV cameras, plus the option to shoot both tape and tapeless at the same time.

On the 7th picture on the 2nd images page, I noticed there's a button called "MAGN.". Do you think this is the same as the Z1's 'expanded focus' feature, or is it a common Canon feature I don't know about?

A 2/3" chip XL H2 ;-) ?

I noticed there's a button called "MAGN."It's the same as the Focus Assist feature on the XL H1; it magnifies the viewfinder image by 200%.

Also download Yahoo toolbar, and you can add a button called Translate page. A couple of clicks, and it translates the site perfect.

Does anyone know if Canon has upgraded the tape transport in the current/forthcoming crop? I'm still smarting over the high-dollar, poor customer service, of getting the transport replaced on my GL2 when Canon *should* have issued a recall. Should I continue to budget $250-$500/year for transport replacement?

Matt

Oh yeah, I hate to take any air out of Bob's tires, but these babies will definitely sell for full retail.

how often does that happen with any camera?

Does anyone know if Canon has upgraded the tape transport in the current/forthcoming crop? I'm still smarting over the high-dollar, poor customer service, of getting the transport replaced on my GL2... Should I continue to budget $250-$500/year for transport replacement?Rest assured that since it's an HDV camcorder, then it ain't at all the same tape transport as the GL2. Most likely it's the same one from the XL H1, and I haven't heard of any problems with that one.

(full retail) how often does that happen with any camera?About every time, Bob? The XL H1 is still selling for full MSRP, at $8995... the XL2 sold at full MSRP for several months... just about everything does in this business. Of course I'm talking about legitimate dealers! Not the gray-market fly by night box houses.

I also thought their was a street price,,,,I guess I'm more used to Nikon than Canon.

So has anyone ever went to film usining 24f?

No need to translate the Japanese pages when we have info here!

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=72315

and

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelDetailAct&fcategoryid=175&modelid=14057

and

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelDetailAct&fcategoryid=175&modelid=14061

hwm

I should have posted this yesterday.

I waited a long.. time to see what Canons offering would be before buying a HD camera. I think these cameras are double the price of what they should be, and years overdue, and yes, I think all the prosumer cameras, except some of the cheaper Sony, are too much as well.

--------------------------------

I remember when I first saw the exceptional looking XL1 and GL1, beautiful but so costly. Even today these old cameras are a "beautiful selling point, with the exception of the JVC HD100 series, they stand out from the crowd. heres to the old Canons, they might have got behind the ball over the years before HD, but that didn't really matter as the were ahead of the ball in the first place.

The story went, at that NAB2004 site for one example, that a number of 720p cameras from other manufacturers were planned after the HD10. Then Sony stepped in and they converted their plans to 1080p and the cameras were delayed. I much rather would have had 720p sooner with 50/60p options then have had to wait years for these versions. If Canon were to release a full version 720p50/60 version of these cameras at half the price today (and 36Mb/s+ (or 25mbps H264) even 10bit) I would be very tempted.

I think the industry has missed a very good chance in HDV to stratify their product lines, with 720p at the bottom, and 1080 and 1440 I & P at the top. Now is the time of the rise of H264 (why didn't they use th older Mpeg4 for HDV).

Good luck to you Canon.

i won't be paying $7,000.

I will pay $4000 for the XH-A1. I even plan on reserving one the first chance I can.

I think these cameras are double the price of what they should be, and years overdue, and yes, I think all the prosumer cameras, except some of the cheaper Sony, are too much as well.

Agreed that the Canons are at least a year late to market, but the pricing is plausible compared to the competition (especially the base model). $3999 for a camera which will record over 700 TV lines of discernible resolution on inexpensive tapes with a 20X zoom lens and XLR inputs? How is that not a fair deal compared to what we've been paying for 'prosumer' cameras up until now? Sure, it'll be better when the street price is closer to $3000 like the FX1 is now, but that's not bad for the MSRP.

why didn't they use th older Mpeg4 for HDV.

How about because real-time MPEG4 encoders weren't ready, and it will be years before it's realistic to edit MPEG4 footage directly in real time? A better question would be why all HDV cameras don't offer an option for a 35 Mbps bit rate, which appears to make a noticeable difference compared to 25 Mbps?

I think the tape transport issues on the GL2 are probably critical on the decision of Canon not coming up with a 'GL3' and also the fact they are going 'Sony style' and make 2 very similar cameras with different price ranges.

Regarding the price, it seems very good taking into account the competition. Why would Canon be selling the HA1 for $3k if the FX1 has been around for quite a while? People would just think Canon didn't have any faith in these cameras, or was desperate to take Sony head-on for some reason.

I don't think these prices are bad at all. These are prosumer cameras meant to make money with and not just cheap consumer models. These new cameras could very well have the same image quality of the H1 which has been known to hold it's own with the SONY 350 as well as the F900.

Remember the FX1 is a consumer camera. The Z1 which is the pro version does actually cost more than XH-A1. If you want to spend $3,000.00 and feel you can get by with a FX1 then maybe you should go buy one of those. I for one want the amazing chips and features that Canon has. When compared to the Z1 isn't this camera much more of a value? True 24F recording, high quality detailed chips, image control, the option of having SDI. For many there is no question that the Canon is the way to go just for the 24F alone.

To this date the XH-A1 is the cheapest prosumer HDV camera with the Z1 and the JVC HD-100 next in line around $5,000.00. Yes if you want SDI it will cost more but then again is there an option for SDI on the other cameras I just mentioned. The JVC HD-250 will have SDI but it will again cost closer to $10,000 or more. At $7,000.00 this is the cheapest camera ever made in the history of man to have SDI. If SDI isn't a big deal to you then get the XH-A1 for $4,000.00. If $4,000.00 is too much for a camera then perhaps you are in the wrong business. I have never even bought DV cameras for less than $4,000.00.

Agreed. I don't see how $4000 can be construed as "too expensive" considering all that the camera does. It should pay for itself in no time. If it hasn't paid for itself within 90 days of buying it, then something's wrong with your business model.

There's only two things that a $4000 camcorder can be. It's either a business tool, or it's a luxury item. If it's a business tool, then it's paying for itself. If it's a luxury item, then its affordability is a highly subjective and personal matter. Either way, how can you complain about the price?

I'm wondering about those extra jacks on the G1. From the pictures it appears the only differnce between the two cameras are the jacks themelves. Notice how there isn't some big box on the side of the camera that would house some sort of logic board. So it makes me wonder if the A1 has the same abilities just not the jacks to access them. Maybe something a physical hack would solve? As sacrilegious as that may sound right now.

Overall these cameras look excellent. Great job Canon.

Also does anyone know if these camera can rotate the image 180 degrees in-camera for use with those fancy DIY DOF adapters? I've heard the XL2 can do that. Never inquired about the XL-H1 though as it's out of my price range.

So has anyone ever went to film usining 24f?

It's not clear by these listings in IMDB, but the Canon XL-H1 can shoot in 24f and these 5 movies used (at least in part) the H1.

http://www.imdb.com/SearchTechnical?CAM:Canon%20XL-H1

I think until there is full, native support for 24f in the major NLEs, then it will be awhile before it is a common format to shoot in when intending to go to film. Of course, with Canon's announcement yesterday, I'm betting that native support is just around the corner.