The other big thing about the EOS D1s is that we are finally seeing 1:1 CCDs. Who knows, mabe this means we might see increases in video camera CCD sizes in the not to distant future.

If a video camera were able to use a 1:1 CCD, that would greatly enhance the feasability of using film camera lenses, would it not?
What is the likelyhood of seeing a descendent of the XL1 with an EF mount lens in the future, at a price hopefully less than $9000?

That'd make a lot of people happy. Including me.

Dylan,

When that happens would you please come visit me at the home and let me hold you new camera? I promise not to drool on it. You're not only going to need 1 chip that size, but 3 and a prism to go with it. CMOS chips use much less power, but still a 10 to 15 pound camera by the time you add batteries and all. Even more with a big pro lens. The cameras get huge just going to a 2/3 inch chips.

Jeff

MPEG 2 compression is definitely backwards... since it is also
compressed indeed. And I hope it is I-frame only because it
will be a pain to edit otherwise. I'd suggest uncompressed
or lossless compressed too. That shouldn't be too much of a
problem.... But I would be happy with variable fps, 4:4:4
DV stream on a harddisk.... Ah, throw in a higher resolution
too... Who says we can't dream. But that will not happen anyway
since the DV specs don't allow for any of that.

Now if you would come to Holland..... heh

Trust me, I know this group... if Guy and crew make it to Amsterdam, well, the whole thing comes to a stop and you couldn't make them leave that town for a week or two.

;-)

So I should just keep saving for a Mini35, huh? :)

<<<-- Originally posted by Guy Cochran : For those of you interested in seeing an entire project shot, edited, and compressed for the web in just 2 and 1/2 hours, come to the Free DV Revolution Seminar Tour. We'll be coming to most every major US city.

You'll see Canon cameras, Tiffen Filters, Lowel lighting, Pinnacle Edition DV editing software, Artbeats stock footage, Sonicfire Pro soundtrack creation software, and Cleaner 5 for exporting your project to the web, CD-ROM or DVD.

Learn more at:

http://www.editionplanet.com/
http://www.dvcreators.net/ -->>>

Guy,

I have been trading emails with Jim T. regarding your upcoming Houston event. We are looking forward to your group heading down to Texas. Look forward to meeting you if you make the trip.

Hi Ken,

I do indeed remember the Chicago workshop with you. Lot's o' fun at 10 South Wacker. I remember you were the one who also has done presentations and said not to drink too much coffee...

If you recall Day 1 of the DV Revolution Workshop is shooting, Day 2 Editing, Day 3 Delivery. Since anyone can take any single day of the workshop, we would have twice as many people on Day 1 as Day 2. Why you ask? Half of the attendees use a PC solution. Up until now, we could not find a powerful, reliable, yet inexpensive NLE on the PC side that could be on the same level as Final Cut Pro.
Well, now we have, and we are proud to be showing off - and hosting workshops on Edition DV. We still have the best Final Cut Pro workshops across the country, and now we have the best coast-to-coast PC workshops as well. This gives everyone a chance to join the Revolution at a killer price point and with professional tools to boot.

I look forward to seeing you all out there on the Free Tour.... and Rob... I really, really wish we were touring Europe!

Guy Cochran
DVcreators.net

Check out the review on http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2002/09_sep/features/cw_fcp_vs_xdv_shootout.htm Very complete review by an experienced Avid editor. Unlike many reviews this one names a winner.

Jeff

For a change, this is a DMN article *not* written by Charlie White (ugh) but instead by Peter May (hooray).

Wow, that's quite an exhaustive and unique review. I don't think I've ever seen sluggish audio noted in any review of XDV.

Great review. I wish more reviews cold be this "hands on". I come from an Avid background and have been doing FCP since 1.0 and have the same feeling of being old whenever I go back to Avids. Theres a lot more "next generation EDL" connected to FCP.

Me too Guy.... workshops and such are almost nowhere to be
found around here. And if they are I am highly doubting them and
there quality (and price vs. quality for that matter). Oh well,
perhaps I can sometime attend a workshop in the US.

Thanks anyways for doing this and bringing it to our attention.

JVC has announced a new cam. It is a hand-held, digital HD cam with 3, 1/3" CCDs. (It looks like a Sony PD100A, but brown in color). For a picture and the JVC link, go to the news section here:

www.dvfreak.com/links.htm

From what I could decipher from the japanese text (my japanese
isn't that good -- ie, non existent)

- It will record DV and MPEG2
- Records the following resolutions:

720x480 or 720x525: interlaced, DV
720x480 or 720x525: progressive, MPEG2
1280x720 or 1280x750: progressive, MPEG2

All on miniDV tape? Probably will *NOT* be standards
compliant though. I hope they have a very good NLE
that can handle MPEG2 and that the MPEG2 is I-frame
only.

Anyone else found some interesting information on this?

JVC announced a few years ago their plans on making a new HD camera. They proposed (along with Panasonic) the DV100 spec.
720x1280 8bit 4:2:2 color at up to 60p. I think Pana got the jump on them with the veri cam, but didn't make it to the specs originally laid out. By the looks of the picture, they have a new, wider tape based system. If it works, I don't care if it's proprietary.

Most of us use the dv25 spec for mini-dv and DVCAM tapes. 8bit 4:1:1 NTSC 4:2:0 PAL

A step up is DV50 which is what D9 and DVCPRO50 comply with.
8bit 4:2:2 NTSC or PAL
This is the next thing they were talking about..


Nice thing is, DV100 still works within the the 400mb spec of 1394.

Its not going to affect what I buy in the next couple of weeks, but if it's any good, I'll get it in the future.

Well... what I understand from that japanese site it seems like
they are only using DV with their standard DV25 compliant
signal. Everything else seems to be using MPEG2 (stored on a
DV tape???)

We will see where it all goes.....

Okay Rob, I don't read japanese, so I'll take your word for it. I've emailed a query to JVC to find out more. If it's high quality i-frame only mpeg, that might be alright, but traditionally mpeg2 is not a great format to edit in.

Unfortunately, for me anyway, and I suspect for at least a few others, FCP isn't even in the picture because it's only available for the Mac, and I don't want to blow all my money on the hardware. I wish they would widen their horizons and port it to windows (I know, it will never happen!). In the meantime, I am using XDV3 and I like it a lot.

You don't have to blow all your money on hardware. That's a common PC myth about Macs. I don't want this to turn into a Mac vs. PC war, but used and refurbished Macs are available for very reasonable sums. The savings in the software (FCP vs. Avid Xpress DV) will make up for price differences in hardware. So, the next time your upgrading hardware consider a Mac and the advantages it offers. All things considered a switch might be in order.

Jeff

We have both systems here at The U of M Media Union.
Avid XpressDV and Final Cut Pro are both great IMO.
You can't go wrong running either of these two programs.

I learned on Avid, so I prefer XpressDV over Final Cut, BUT Final Cut
has an incredible array of tools and capabilities. Apple isn't
holding any features back, whereas Avid sells $150K systems, and
therefore doesn't want to kill that market by giving XpressDV
90% of a Symphony's function.

We had a demo of Avid DS (Softimage digital studio) a couple
of weeks ago. Now THAT, is da BOMB!

Yeah. The Avid DS is what? $350 000? That will buy you 35 uncompressed FCP setups...

Yes. Avid|DS is expensive beyond most setups. And question is if you really make any progress since for that money you get one impressive Uncompressed FCP + AFX setup which technically can rival most of the stuff you can do with the DS system. And if you are fleshing out $350k (not even sure this is enough) for a DS (which btw is for the base system, you need some additional hardware to get the system fast and easy to use). And if you are looking at that kinda system why not start looking at a Flame or Smoke.

You need some serious clients with serious money to afford that kinda system. I worked on one for 2 years and was laid off due to lack of clients.

/Henrik

Your point is taken, Jeff. I should have explained that I teach video production at a high school, and because of budget concerns they are not purchasing any new equipment for me. I build my own PC's and I had one that I had been running Premiere on, so I bought the the academic version of XDV3 for $500. As far as I know, Apple doesn't offer academic pricing on software. I wanted my more advanced students to have have the opportunity to edit on something other than Premiere, to help prepare them for the next level. I would like to offer FCP to them too, but my personal budget won't allow it. Unfortunately, with the heavy emphasis on increasing academic performance, many schools are cutting back on expensive technology classes. It's a shame (and I think very shortsighted), because I have a girl that is a Junior that has been making money editing event videos. And I have others that are getting close to that level. I need about 10 more editing stations with any editing software right now, but I won't get them. If funds become available though, I will keep your sggestion in mind.

I thought Apple offered FCP at an educational rate.

Jeff, you might want to look into Pinnacle Edition:

http://www.pinnaclesys.com/ProductPage.asp?Product_ID=561&Langue_ID=7

and also the Canopus products:

http://www.canopus.com

I know for a fact that Canopus has an academic sales channel. Hope this helps,

Hi Jeff,

What a coincedence, I teach also (digital photography and photography). Apple sells FCP for $299 (educational discount). In your situation I would look at several year old iMacs. My 9 year old son edits on his iMac (mostly movies about his hamster) that is 2 years old. I bought it on ebay for $500.

Apple has educational discounts on their hardware also. Take a look here http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/243/wo/IO5KQ1Pny1lYpQE9zj/0.3.0.3.16.4.0?44,7 for educational discounts. This also might help http://www.apple.com/education/

Jeff

Thanks for the responses, Chris and Jeff. I knew that Apple offered academic discounts on their hardware, but I hadn't found that info about their software. I should have asked here sooner! Your suggestions are very helpful. I may have to check that credit card balance!
Jeff, is your school cutting back on technical and vocational classes? I have talked to technology teachers in other districts in Arizona, and it seems to be a growing problem here. What concerns me is that, although I think raising academic standards is a worthy goal, I'm afraid that we are beginning to treat all students as if they are going to a four year college, when many would be better served by going on to technology schools where they can get training specific to their career goals. It's hard for them to discover that, though, if we end up eliminating technology classes.

I don't teach in Public Education at this time (I teach at a Fine Arts school). However, I did briefly teach Video Production at a Vocational High School in Ohio several years ago. The cut backs in Florida are not good. But lots of money for constuction because of the ever increasing student enrollment. I've only lived in Florida a little over a year and the education system down here is way behind education in the more northern states.

It seems to me this whole vocational education issue runs in cycles. I remember back in the '70s vocational education was thought to be the wave of the future and huge sums of money went into building seperate vocational buildings to teach the trades. The problem was that for the most part they didn't teach technology. They taught printing, auto mechanics, carpentry etc. Cutting edge technology, like computer science, was taught at the main high school because CS was a college program. Now, much of CS can be taught at a vocational level. But no money for the equipment.

Jeff

Nice review of XpressDV 3.5 in this months dDV magazine by Frank Capria. He rates Avid XPressDVover FCP...

"Xpress DV 3.5 is the best software-only NLE I have ever used. For facilities that do a significant amount of DV editing, it's worth the $500 difference in street price over Apple's Final Cut Pro. This is getting to be fun. I can hardly wait to seee how Apple counters."

That's why there are reviews....

Frank and I have crossed swords many times on the Avid L
in the past four years. He has always been a big Avid supporter
and user, so like everyone, he most likely has his bias.

As I said in my previous post, I prefer XpressDV
to FCP because I am intimate with Avid, and I would guess
the same goes for Frank. Avid's interface is still more elegant
and easy than FCP, but . . .

Restating my position, BOTH of these programs are great!
If you are way into PC, that makes the choice easy.
I would also say that FCP does much more for a grand than
XpressDV "base" program. The cool stuff doesn't
really begin until you get the $3500 "loaded" xpressdv.

This summer, JVC very quietly introduced the JVC HM-DH3000 D-VHS recorder for a list price of $1999.00, with a retail price of $1299.00. D-VHS/ D-Theatre (dvhs.com) is advertising the unit for $999.00, and I am also seeing this unit being advertised elsewhere on the web between $769 - $899. That's assuming that they have them in stock of course, which many sites are claiming that they do. hmmmmmmmmmmm,,,

I would like to know if anyone here has yet invested in D-VHS and what their experiences have been so far? I know the video inputs are either composite or S-Video, but the JVC HM-DH3000 DOES offer IEEE1394 I/O, so how about using the DataVideo DAC-2 Bi-Directional DV to Y.U.V. Convertor to input component video?
http://www.datavideo-tek.com/content/product_info/dvformatconverters/dac2/dac2_specifications.htm

Does anyone in here know of a better solution in this price range?

Also, if you have seen and/ or used this unit, or if you have any experience with D-VHS/ D-Theatre equipment, please do add your input below.

Looking forward to some good responses!

JVC HM-DH3000 links:
http://www.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL026758&page=2

More from dvhsmovie.com:
http://www.dvhsmovie.com/hardware/hardware-detail.asp?hid=1

CNET REVIEW:
http://electronics.cnet.com/electronics/0-6342375-1305-9718907.html?tag=rev-rev

BuyDig.com: (supposedly in stock for $769)
http://www.buydig.com/cgi-local/shop/web_store.cgi?cart_id=6596177133.1034124376&page=outlet_frontpage_db.html&details=yes&exact_match=on&pro_id=JVCMDH30000U&search_request_button=yes&accy=&as=

- don

This may be stupid, but why invest in DVHS, you have no compatability with anyone else. Why not output to DVD. I assume the attraction is DVHS has larger capacity, but I think they are late to the game making DVHS affordable, had they dropped it in 2 years ago at say $500 I think plenty of preople would have hopped on board. My guess is there is a niche for it, but a shrinking one at that.

Hi Keith,

Not a dumb question at all Keith. Certainly, this technology format will probably be replaced in a few years by some form of HD DVD player/ recorder. Don't forget that this is a stand-alone unit with multiple analog and digital I/O. I'm hearing about some editors who are picking up these units to create a DV tape "master" of projects with timelines that exceed the 80-minute tape length of miniDV or the 3-hour tape length of DVCam for that matter. I'm sure that any good video dub/ transfer house is capable of handling a D-VHS tape.

It also makes one very sweet "VHS" recorder to have around the house, if you are into recording high-quality digital video and do not want to stock up on multiple hard drives. I'm sure that the cost of one D-VHS tape that allows you to record a good 4 hours at the highest level of 1080i HDTV quailty is still a lot cheaper than a 60GB or higher hard drive to record -and- store that same 4 hours of 1080i HDTV quality video.

As JVC puts it for those who want "a recorder capable of recording capturing HDTV broadcasts in their original, full high-definition quality, D-VHS is capable of recording 50 GigaBytes on a single tape.

That's approximately 4 hours of 1080i HD broadcast, 8 hours of standard television definition (STD), or 24 hours of LS3, digitally recorded in MPEG-2 format (the same compression used in mastering DVDs) — great for digital archiving.

Now users can record and playback in analog VHS, Super VHS and Super VHS ET, as well as high definition digital D-VHS — all on one deck"

Still contemplating the idea myself, but for certain applications it does seem to make a lot of sense. It sure seems to be a lot cheaper than any standalone HD DVD player/ recorder solution that may (or may not) exist in the here and now.

- don

There are actually a few movies released in this format. HiDef stuff, but it supports Dolby 5.1 only, none for DTS. Still it does sound like a cheap way to go HD.

Heres another link for this camera.

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/hd_recording_camcorder_jvc_ceatec_japan_10_02_02.htm

don't know how dependable she is, basically saying the camera may be here by late next year for under 3K (according to her sources at JVC).
I seriously doubt that, considering what it would to to the rest of the JVC line up.

More info.

Ken Freed, an official JVC sales rep, says over at the cow forum that this camera is strictly a concept camera designed to generate discussion. There are currently no plans to make this cam for the general public. Or even produce it at all.
Of course they started out saying that with the dy300u also.

Hm.. im wondering about one thing here.. does this mean it records the HD in Mpeg-2 compression? Wouldn't that mean it will hurt the image quality even more than DV? im especially thinking about adding noise to the image when either capturing gradients or making the green/blue screen compositors life a nightmare.

Even DV in its 1.st generation can be a real problem with compositing due to the introduced noise in the compression.

Just curious... "coz i shure wanna HD cam :)"

/Henrik

docuwild, what officials at JVC are saying is this camera is nothing more than a non functioning prototype put together by some engineers in a lab. It is not a demo of an actual product to be sold.
Turns out this is just like those prototype cars you see at autoshows.
Doesn't mean something won't come out of it, but don't expect to see this camera anywhere anytime in the near future.

In other words, further speculation about this camera is a total waste of bandwidth. in fact this is the last post I'll make about it.

hahaha, then you can sue me for patent infringement peter

SAY IT LOUD, SAY IT PROUD
PNG, open source, patent free. PNG

hehehe

>>docuwild, what officials at JVC are saying
>>is this camera is nothing more than a non
>>functioning prototype

This camera was displayed on CEATEC and produced a picture. That means it has working optics and CCD, focusing.

Balazs

Hmm, then someone needs to figure out whats going on. JVC over hear says this camera will not be for sale. It's just a prototype. I'll ask Ken Freed again what's going on.

With USB 2.0 just starting to become a standard feature on new PC motherboards, the 1394 Trade Association has announced specifications for IEEE 1394b (aka FireWire 2.0). IEEE 1394a supported serial transfer speeds of 400 Mbps; USB 2.0 topped that with speeds of up to 480 Mbps. Whereas 1394a thrived in the domain of digital video camera data transfer, 1394b is intended to be a networking standard with speeds of 800 Mbps for starters and, within one and five years, respectively, 1.6 Gbps and 3.2 Gbps; and maximum cable lengths of up to 50 meters (or 100 m using plastic optical fiber). Industry adoption may be even slower than USB 2.0, however, because whereas USB 2.0 capability is generally built into the chipset, FireWire standards require an additional chip.

Tokyo, JP - Reports from CEATEC Japan, the Image, Information and Communications trade show held near Tokyo, say JVC is displaying a new consumer camcorder capable of recording high definition (HD) signals.

The camcorder is reported to record high definition 720 x 480 progressive scan mode in a 16:9 aspect ratio (480p) and 1280 x 720 progressive in a 16:9 aspect ratio (720p), as well as standard 720 x 480 mini-DV interlaced video (480i). The new camcorder records the video as MPEG-2 onto new, special mini-DV tapes, it is described.

The camcorder uses a 1 1/3" megapixel CCD, and includes a special high definition lens as well as optical image stabilization. The lens has both zoom and focus rings, but apparently no markings are available, as it is a fully automatic lens, like the Sony VX2000 and many others.

The camcorder has a hand grip that rotates, allowing the body of the camcorder to be positioned for low- and high-angle shots easily; however the camcorder itself is a standard horizontal format, similar in shape and size to the Sony VX2000 or the Canon GL2.

The camcorder can transfer the digital video to a computer, although it was not specified if this was done through a standard FireWire port. The camcorder does have an SD card slot, often used for digital stills and Web movies.

Reports cite the manufacturer as saying the camcorder will be available next year, for 200,000 - 300,000 yen or approximately $1,623.38 to $2,435.06 dollars.

Yeah, I focused in on that MPEG-2 compression too. You have got to ask how are they producing HD? In order to make use of MPEG-2 you really need VBR (Variable Bit Rate). One has to wonder how high do they have the VBR on this machine cranked?

If JVC has pulled this off close to perfect, then they might have the machine to beat and it ought to kill everything out there.

However, if its only a 'vaporcam' (a cam that does not really exist) then who cares what the price may be?

Here comes the fourth Instant Films, special Halloween edition!

Instant Films presents the latest cycle of the 48-hour filmmaking project. 8 writers are given randomly selected words on Friday night; on Saturday morning they turn in their completed 5-8 page scripts; 8 directors pick a script and their cast out of a hat and then have 36 hours to complete their films!

Come see the results at the screening this Sunday the 20th at the LA Center Studios--for more information and to check out the great films from previous festivals, go to www.instantfilms.com.

If you are a DV filmmaker in the LA area, I strongly recommend checking it out. It's an exciting evening, partly because of the adrenaline-fueled almost-live-TV nature of the festival, also because we are always looking for new talent to participate in future festivals.

Bill,

"Nice review of XpressDV 3.5 in this months dDV magazine by Frank Capria."

Not that Frank Capria is wrong. He might very well be right - but DV Magazine always acompany their reviews with a full page ad of the product they are reviewing. Come to think of it; I don't think I've ever seen a bad review in that magazine. And never a review of a product that did not sponsor the magazine. I think DV Mag is a little bit too fishy for my taste...

Sponsors are great if the relationship is honest. This forum is a great example.

;)

Can't wait to see the results Charlers.... as always keep up
the nice work! Truly a nice concept!

Mac users can do the install over the net here

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/

The standalone installer is here

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/standalone/


Jeff