Sorry if I come back with stupid beginners' question but I am still stuck in my learning process.
Starting from the premise that I would like to use Vegas(6.0d) and keep the highest ouput quality, which procedure should I follow?
I presume that I have to convert my mp4 files in another format prior to start editing? But which format? Using which software?
I have tried Mp4cam2avi and it seems like Vegas doesn't like the resulting avi files because I cannot import them!

When I import mp4 files straight into Vegas, I cannot get an acceptable preview frame rate which I understood is quite normal with native HD1 footage.

Many thanks

I had the same problem with vegas 6. I went to the sony website and downloaded the h264 mpg4 codec for vegas. I believe it was on the updates page for vegas. I was able to import files that I used mp4toavi on first. I still havent bought the camera yet, just downloaded samples from peop0le who posted footage here. Wanted to make sure my system could handle footage before I bought. After importing footage into Vegas,(still choppy but usable) I exported to an mpeg 2 right in Vegas. The dvd quality from this camera is awesome! I watched it on a sony lcd tv at work and it looked excellent. I hope this helps and sorry if you have figured this out already. Takecare,
Arlan

I'm in a hurry, so I need to be brief. Try Ulead Studio 10 Plus.The Plus version edits and outputs HD. I use it and it edits mp4 with no problem, It then exports HD in either mpeg2 or WMV.Price is 99$.It also supports HD DVD burners (when they arrive) and will work on 64 bit systems as well as 32.

I had the same problem with vegas 6. I went to the sony website and downloaded the h264 mpg4 codec for vegas. I believe it was on the updates page for vegas. I was able to import files that I used mp4toavi on first. Arlan

Thanks for this info. I will try this since I don't think I have this codec.
Btw, when you say that you export to mpeg2 in Vegas, do you mean before editing?
Cheers,

Erick

[QUOTE=Philip Raymond]Try Ulead Studio 10 Plus.The Plus version edits and outputs HD.QUOTE]

Yes Philip, you are right but would appreciate an editing software like Vegas and Cie... ;>)

Thanks anyway.

Erick

I would appreciate just a SIMPLE lossless or near to it way of simply CUTTING the videos files like you can in camera without having to wait the eternity it takes to do so in camera.

all I want to do is pick a start and end point and say cut that out for me. thats it !!!

the trick is I don't want to recompress it !! the in camera would be fine if it let me define both a start and end in one operation (ie usually my clips are a few seconds long) right now I have to play to beginning and tell it delete 1st half then I wait forever.

Then I play this new clip to my end point and tell it delete second half and it once again takes forever. Grrr just for a 15second clip Grrr

Suggestions ?

http://www.naramlive.com/

all I want to do is pick a start and end point and say cut that out for me. thats it !!!

the trick is I don't want to recompress it !!


Why can't you just use mp4cam2avi which does no compression to pull all the clips to one avi, then VirtualDub with direct stream copy, which has a very simple system for cutting bits out. Then you'll get no recompression in the output avi. No clever transition stuff mind you..

Hmmm never tried that. I tend to shy away from virtualdub because its usually VERY compliated to use in a rush enviroment. Is it still time index based or do they have a preview gui for picking the start and end points now (I will try tommorrow sometime and see what happens)

also once I run the avi coverter on it I can't put it back in the camera which right now is the only way for me to output HD to a television set (still have to stop by best buy and jack into one just to see what it looks like :-)

Chris Taylor
http://www.naramlive.com/

Hmmm never tried that. I tend to shy away from virtualdub because its usually VERY compliated to use in a rush enviroment. Is it still time index based or do they have a preview gui for picking the start and end points now (I will try tommorrow sometime and see what happens)

also once I run the avi coverter on it I can't put it back in the camera which right now is the only way for me to output HD to a television set (still have to stop by best buy and jack into one just to see what it looks like :-)

Chris Taylor
http://www.naramlive.com/
The current version is very clean and, in my view, straightforward to use:
http://www.virtualdub.org/download

You can of course make it complicated and have hours of endless fun playing with the filters and compressions, both the inbuilt ones, and the ones on the net:
http://www.hlinke.de/Home_e/Vdub-Filterlist/vdub-filterlist.html

But it does provide in and out preview, realtime shuffle edit, and you can delete a block by marking it and pressing delete.
However, as you say, you can't reconstitute into the original format and put the result back in the camera.

As for outputting to tv, I noticed yesterday that Pinnacle, who've been take over by Avid seem to be clearing the deck and in the UK have their multimedia box, the Showcenter 200 on a cutprice offer.
http://estore.pinnaclesys.com/servlet/ControllerServlet?Action=DisplayPage&Locale=en_GB&id=ProductDetailsPage&SiteID=piestore&productID=36111000&Env=BASE

This is supposed to handle HD, and output in 720p or 1080i. I've ordered one to see whether it will handle the HD1 output, both raw and converted. In their UK shop its 129UKP, down from 179, but it still seems to be $299 on the US site:
http://www.pinnaclesys.com/PublicSite/us/Products/Consumer+Products/Digital+Media+Adapters/Digital+Media+Player/ShowCenter+200.htm

Hello Mike and Chris,

I've tried reading converted MP4 HD1 files with mp4cam2avi into virtualdub but during playback, I get a lot of interferences (small horizontal lines) on the right part of the display only.

Any idea how it comes?

Erick

Hello Mike and Chris,

I've tried reading converted MP4 HD1 files with mp4cam2avi into virtualdub but during playback, I get a lot of interferences (small horizontal lines) on the left part of the display only.

Any idea how it comes?

Erick
This is just using direct stream copy on both audio and video? Or have you got a compressor codec on the output? What are you playing the clips with?
I don't get this problem either in MPC or PowerDVD 7, nor on output built with Divx 6 compression.
PS, there are the usual diagonal compression artifacts of course, where they are present in the source.

This is just using direct stream copy on both audio and video? Or have you got a compressor codec on the output? What are you playing the clips with?

No, I wasn't ouputting anything! Just playing the avi files with Virtualdub and hoping to get them trimmed easily. At that stage, the clips were played back showing some small interferences.
So, it doesn't encourage me to continue that way...:>(

No, I wasn't ouputting anything! Just playing the avi files with Virtualdub and hope getting them trimmed easily. At that stage, the clips were played back showing some small interferences.
So, it doesn't encourage me to continue that way...:>(
With direct stream copying on, then the input and output images should be identical. Use right click to size the windows so you can see both ok.

I just downloaded the trial and did two tests with xacti footage and Uleads VideoStudio 10 plus, based on Phillip's recommendation. Very simple and intuitive and had no problems reading and editing mpeg4 footage. I outputed to wmvHD and mpeg2hd. The windows media hd file was 3x the size of the original, but was better quality than the mpeg2 hd (all at 720p).

I was hoping to output edited footage in the same codec and format as the xacti for full screen playback on my LCD, but I wasn't able to do so as the settings wouldn't allow 1280x720 in mpeg4.

I think I will buy this software, as it is only $99 and has a lot of options for output. I also liked the feature of exporting jpeg image sequences.

I have been searching for a way to join my clips together without recompression and so fare I have come up empty. You can look at a thread that I started here http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=69125 about the subject. In theory you should be able to do just that with Quick Time pro as well as the other freeware program mentioned in that thread. It does work, but when I play back the new clip that consisted of joined clips I loose the audio after the first join point. I have tested this on several diffrent computers using VLC player and I always get the same result on matter how I join them together with the exception of doing it in the camera.

Hey Mike Lewis - have you tried to play sanyo mp4's on that box yet ?

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

Hey Mike Lewis - have you tried to play sanyo mp4's on that box yet ?

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/
It arrived yesterday. Like a number of people (if you read their support boards) I can't get Pinnacle's Showcenter software to install. It uses the disastrous Microsoft Desktop Sequel Server, total overkill for an app like this. (So does Sony's Vegas, I couldn't get that to install either, for the same reason!)
My installation fails with the Microsoft installer reporting it's got 10 seconds to go.. Tried all the fixes, deleting everything I can find to do with SQL on the PC, but it won't work. This is a nuisance since their own application is the only way to update the firmware in the box. There are a number of other freeware applications that support the box but without any way of firmware updating, I'm playing with one called WIZD.

Without using the PC as server, just plugging in an SD card from the Xacti to the Showcenter via a USB adaptor, it does see and play the raw MP4s. BUT, it reports 'unknown audio codec', so no sound I'm afraid. I don't know whether there is any patch to fix this, and as I've noted, I couldn't download this to the box at present if there was....

Apparently, the Pinnacle solution to the PC software install fail is ....'reinstall windows'.....

The Showcenter, using the freeware Wizd as the server, does display media stuff from my networked PC. Same no-sound issue of course if I use the raw MP4s from the Xacti, but it will play the AVI files produced by MP4CAM2 AVI ok, with sound.

If I copy an AVI file produced by MP4CAM2AVI across to an SD card, this will also play when plugged in to the MediaCenter USB port, with sound.

To use this as a true Networked Media Center will, I think require some perseverence: I don't think it's a box for a non technical PC person. This is why, I guess, Pinnacle/Avid appear to be lukewarm about it. Still... it's fun to play with and try to get right, and the open source servers like WIZD and Simple Media Server are under active development. It does work as a freestanding media player for the formats it understands, and you could, instead of an SD card via an adaptor, plug in a USB hard drive formatted with FAT32 and loaded with the files you want to play. Pity about the inability to download any patches though....

1. Check the naming conventions on your box. If your computer name has a space in it, or certain unapproved characters, your install will simply fail.
2. When installing MSDE (MS SQL Desktop Edition), a log is created that tells why the install fails. Reading this will often help.
3. If you have a software firewall, it has to be removed prior to install or configured to allow SQL installation and operation before you put SQL in.
4. If you have Norton Antivirus installed, you may have to disable it to install SQL. You can turn it on afterwards.

Those tips should help. Of course, the desktop version of SQL is already discontinued, and given Microsoft's July 6th announcement that MSDE should not be installed on Vista (and won't be made compatible), your new software boasts a short lifespan. I'd return it if I were you.

Adding additional risk to all of this, Microsoft won't be allowing companies to distribute MSDE (desktop sql) after July 2007. This indicates a strong probability of a new revision coming out soon... further contributing to the obsolescence of your recent purchase.

I ended up installing the software on a W2k machine that had no .NET on it, and no previous attempts at installing SQL desktop. Went through with no probs and allowed me to get to the setup menu item where the firmware can be updated. Not a very well written app though, since it doesn't check whether the firmware version is the same as the updated version, or tell you what the original version was. So I now have a box running the most up to date firmware. However it still won't play the raw MP4s ,since the box doesn't understand AAC. Annoying, because the middleware used, which is common to a number of this generation of these systems, does have an AAC option available.

I still think that using a full blown relational database for producing lists of media files is a joke! Now I've checked the firmware I'll go back to Wizd or Simple Media Server.

Thanks for your concern, but I'm not bothered by M$ lack of support and it's unlikely I will ever move to Vista or would buy a machine which only offered it.

The Showcenter does at least mean I don't have to trail power supplies, extra leads and the docking station to the TV to watch the output of the camera. And it does play stuff I've produced from other sources.

The output from the Xacti run through MP4CAM2AVI really does look nice on an HD TV, irrespective of the jaggies issue! Not up to BBCHD quality, but then it's several orders of magnitudes cheaper than the cameras they use.

Incidentally, not unexpectedly, the wireless lan connection from the Showcenter to my router, even tho' 54Mbps, can't cope with the 720p clips and pauses every few seconds. I'm now in the process of hardwiring a connection to the router!

Hello Mike and Chris,

I've tried reading converted MP4 HD1 files with mp4cam2avi into virtualdub but during playback, I get a lot of interferences (small horizontal lines) on the right part of the display only.

Any idea how it comes?

Erick


Maybe thats gonna help ya:

Occasionally, I see thin horizontal strips in the captured video that looks like they came from the last frame???

No one has a rock-solid answer for why these problems occur, but it appears to be caused by contention on the PCI bus, which then prevents the sound card and video capture devices from emptying their buffers in time. This problem is reported more frequently on motherboards that have a VIA chipset, or in systems that have a SoundBlaster Live! sound card. In the former case, try upgrading your VIA 4-in-1 drivers first, and if that is not sufficient, check for a motherboard BIOS update that specifically addresses your problem. As for the Live!, the Creative driver is known to cause problems by lowering the latency timer of the PCI bus. (The result is similar that of making the red lights appear every ten seconds at a four-way intersection.) In that case, try installing the Microsoft drivers instead.

Also, check the websites for the hardware manufacturers to see if they have utilities which may help. For instance, Pinnacle has a PCI adjustment utility for some of their cards.

If you are using RGB24 for your raw capture format, switch to YUY2 to drop your raw datarate by 33% (see below), which may be enough to lower PCI bus load to workable levels.

I'm in a hurry, so I need to be brief. Try Ulead Studio 10 Plus.The Plus version edits and outputs HD. I use it and it edits mp4 with no problem, It then exports HD in either mpeg2 or WMV.Price is 99$.It also supports HD DVD burners (when they arrive) and will work on 64 bit systems as well as 32.


Hey,

If anyone wants to get Ulead videostudio plus 10, contact the ebay seller classicgamebox in australia, he is a Ulead licensed reseller. I just downloaded the full program for $49.95Austrailian ($38US). Works great with mpeg4.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=018&item=280019683802

Hi Tup,

What does mean "international shipping" whilst the software can be downloaded? Is this meant for the backup CD if you order it?
Tks

Erick

I didn't pay any shipping, after you pay (I used paypal), he sends you a download link and you download. He gives you 3 items, the main program (133mb), contentpack(300mb), and a bonus pack (100mb). I think he means for the CD with the shipping.

Thanks for the info, I'll buy it and have a try. I already downloaded the manual and it seems like a recommended editing software for beginners.
Do you have any idea why this soft is offered at such a low price? Is it legal? Ulead's price is 99.99 USD I guess.

Comments from other members are welcome.Tks.

Hello Mike I noticed you bought a Showcenter 200 and had some problems with it.

I want to share my experience with it so you may get some ideas on how to improve your setup.

I agree with you, the server that comes with showcenter is less than perfect.
Also is only Windows, that's why I looked into other options. You know, that showcenter machine is basically an internet browser with great streaming capabilities.

You can use different servers softwares than the standard. Two great options for the the showcenter are:

SwissCenter: http://www.swisscenter.co.uk
Oxylbox: http://www.oxyl.de/

You can install plugins that allows you to:
browse the internet, check weather, look at webcams etc.

I am using Oxylbox, but I have no real objections against swisscenter now (there was a bug when browsing in HD that is fixed now)

In order to play HD1 video in the Showcenter, you need to reencode it or use MP42AVI (I prefer this option since it is very fast)

When I installed it in my PC, the wireless bandwith was not enough for streaming HD1 video (unless you reencode and compress a lot).

------
This maybe be a little bit tricky if you are not comfortable with Linux:


In order to solve the streaming issues, I installed oxylbox in a Linksys NSLU2 fileserver with unslung firmware:
http://www.nslu2-linux.org/
http://www.oxyl.de/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=2007&boardid=10&styleid=1&sid=9470641c88abf6adaf422ecd6d4ec816

This way I was able to put the NSLU2 right next to the Showcenter for faster streaming.

I am very happy with this setup and I can access all my videos in seconds and they look great in the TV, you cannot see the jaggies at all.

[QUOTE=Erick Hanoteau]Thanks for the info, I'll buy it and have a try. I already downloaded the manual and it seems like a recommended editing software for beginners.
Do you have any idea why this soft is offered at such a low price? Is it legal? Ulead's price is 99.99 USD I guess.

If by "Beginner" you mean "consumer grade", you would be correct. It isn't Vegas Pro or Final Cut Pro. However, for it's price ($99 USD), it's the most bang for the buck. I guess it depends on your needs (are you editing home videos or maybe an industrial video for a business), then it's great. If you're producing a highlight reel of the Summer Olympics, then it's less than what you need. It's also very user friendly as in, it works right the first time. So it's also a quality of life issue. Do I want to finish my video project and have some free time at the end of the day. Or, do I want to knock my brains into a big headache, because my editing software can't do HD easily or at all? P.S.-I've been a professional broadcast engineer for 25 years, 5 of those as a video editor and I'm not embarassed to use this product. It's not what I use at work, but it's perfect for what I do at home.

Well Philip, thanks for your feedback. What you are saying is exactly what I expected to hear. I've had the opportunity to try Vegas and, honestly, I would appreciate if I could master this software and if I could monitor my edited MP4 files with an acceptable preview frame rate which is, unfortunately, not the case.
My goal is to achieve high quality family/holidays video clips with attractive transitions and a very good audio support. I would like to burn high quality DVD’s that I can produce out of my HD1 footage or make HD WMV video and read back via PC on my 50” Pioneer plasma. In the near future, I would like to be able to burn HD DVD’s and get the most of my HD1 extra definition.

Hello Mike I noticed you bought a Showcenter 200 and had some problems with it.

You can use different servers softwares than the standard. Two great options for the the showcenter are:

In order to play HD1 video in the Showcenter, you need to reencode it or use MP42AVI (I prefer this option since it is very fast)

When I installed it in my PC, the wireless bandwith was not enough for streaming HD1 video (unless you reencode and compress a lot).

------
This maybe be a little bit tricky if you are not comfortable with Linux:


In order to solve the streaming issues, I installed oxylbox in a Linksys NSLU2 fileserver with unslung firmware:
http://www.nslu2-linux.org/
http://www.oxyl.de/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=2007&boardid=10&styleid=1&sid=9470641c88abf6adaf422ecd6d4ec816

This way I was able to put the NSLU2 right next to the Showcenter for faster streaming.


Thanks Felipe, in fact I only loaded up the original software to be able to check the firmware level. I've tried the servers you've mentioned, in fact I've currently settled on one called Neolink. This is quite fast and will stream my mp4s and VOB videos to the Showcenter without pausing over one 54Mbps wireless link.
As for the last bit... oh dear, sounds very tempting, with the NSLU2 and usb disks being very cheap..... I can see there will be even more boxes and power supplies round my house...
Incidentally the SC200 is down to UKP79.99 at some places in the UK. The current version is non compliant with the lead based solder regulations that came in last month.

Hello Mike I noticed you bought a Showcenter 200 and had some problems with it.


In order to solve the streaming issues, I installed oxylbox in a Linksys NSLU2 fileserver with unslung firmware:
http://www.nslu2-linux.org/
http://www.oxyl.de/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=2007&boardid=10&styleid=1&sid=9470641c88abf6adaf422ecd6d4ec816

This way I was able to put the NSLU2 right next to the Showcenter for faster streaming.

I am very happy with this setup and I can access all my videos in seconds and they look great in the TV, you cannot see the jaggies at all.
Following your recommendation I bought myself an NSLU2, and now have it running the unix version of the Oxyl server. I've put the OS and software on a USB memory stick, and I'm using a 300GB USB disk for the videos, mp3s etc.
Astonishing what you can get out of a tiny little box, just like the HD1 really!
I agree that with the camera's output, converted to HD AVI, and then run from the Showcenter to an HD TV, you can't see the jaggies, the results look excellent.

Following your recommendation I bought myself an NSLU2, and now have it running the unix version of the Oxyl server. I've put the OS and software on a USB memory stick, and I'm using a 300GB USB disk for the videos, mp3s etc.
Astonishing what you can get out of a tiny little box, just like the HD1 really!
I agree that with the camera's output, converted to HD AVI, and then run from the Showcenter to an HD TV, you can't see the jaggies, the results look excellent.

I am glad you like it, I am really happy with that setup...the next thing I did and took a lot of time was to capture and to encode to XviD all my old VHS and miniDV. I had videos in tape that I was probably never going to watch ... but with the NSLU2/Showcenter I was able to make them easy to access.