Ok, I've been doing some experimenting and reading every post Ash (and others) has made on low light/night settings and thought I would post my findings.

First, my goal was to create a setting that captures blacks as just that, black. I sometimes shoot in dark settings where only my subject is lit and I absolutely hate the noise or “mosquito noise” in the background black areas. Now, for this test and for this situation I wasn’t worried about the detail in the shadows, or black areas. In fact, that’s exactly what I wanted…nothing but clean, smooth black.

I shot a girl in a fairly dark room and only lit her face with candles. I’ve posted the screen grab and Windows Media clip at www.lyonfilms.com/test.html. The media clip is good because the first part of the clip is what I call my Night preset (see settings below) and the second half of the clip is the “Routine” camera setting as posted here on other threads.

I have watched the footage on my HD monitor, on Windows Media and burned at very high quality settings to DVD and played on my Sony Trinitron TV. I am very happy with the results. Very low noise, very dark clean blacks.

One last thing: I shot the subject at 16:9, 30p and had the gain set at 0.

Here are my settings anything not listed is at default. Sorry if things are out of order, I’m going off my handwritten notes.

Gamma = cine
Color Matrix = cine
Noise reduction = middle
Sharpness –3
Color Gain +2
Color Phase + 1
Red Gain = 0
Green Gain = 0
Blue Gain = 0
Blacks = Press
Coring +3
Set Up –3
Master Pedistal –3
Knee = middle
V. Detail = Normal

The image Looks good. You should also try experimenting with just one candle. And please let us know what the image looks like with one candle. Did you White Balance. Please let us know what white balance you use. What was your IRIS and SHUTTER settings.
Good Job and thanks for sharing your settings.

Ed,

Unfortunately, I forgot to white balance (which I normally always do) and just left the white balance on auto. I believe the picture would have looked better had it been better balanced.

To me the normal preset looks brighter, and would probably be fine if it was white balanced.

For what it's worth, I have sample clips from several video cameras which end with a scene lit by a single candle, as shown at the following URL:

http://www.videomem.com/camera_comparison/2006-02-15/index.html

Yes, the normal preset is brighter. The settings changes I made darken the image, but also reduce video noise. This setting certainly isn't for every appilcation, only for what I wanted which was very dark, clean noise free blacks.

When viewed on a big screen the Night preset looks much more cinematic and clean. The normal setting is lighter, shows much more in the shadows but has a totally different look, a look I wasn't going for.

Ed, you asked about other settings: the clip was shot at f2.0 and 1/30 shutter. The settings, other than the presets, were the same for both the Night preset and the Routine preset.

Devon: out of curiosity, have you tried darkening standard footage in post to make shadows blacker and eliminate the noise that way? If so, what adjustments helped that way?

Honestly, I have not had much luck darkening standard images in post when all I want to do is remove noise in the dark areas. I am no expert, but I think it is because to darken the blacks I would darken the entire image. Now, obviously, I could create a mask and only darken the background, or the blacks, but that could get way too complicatied really quickly. I would rather capture a clean night shot or a clean low light shot in camera if at all possible.

I would love other people's input on their experience in low light or night settings. Thanks!

Devon,
I like the look especially the soft look.

Why didn't you shoot 24p?

Eniola:

OK, I'm almost embarrased to say this as I've been a XL2 owner for 2 years and have been using PPro for that long as well. Ever since I upgraded to PPro 2.0 and shoot in 24P Normal, every time I import the footage I get weird interlace lines or "mouse teeth" when there is movement. It happens like every third or fourth frame. I never had the problem before and have run a number of tests and still can't figure out why it is happening. So, I've been shooting 30P just to be safe.

If anyone has any thoughts, please let me know. Thanks.

You aren't alone. I find that if I shoot in 16:9 and use the 25p frame rate (Pal) Some of the effects in my " Casablanca" editing system that I use, don't work! So after years using Frame mode, with the XL1'S, if I want widescreen, it has to be done at 50i Mode.
Mike.

Eniola:

OK, I'm almost embarrased to say this as I've been a XL2 owner for 2 years and have been using PPro for that long as well. Ever since I upgraded to PPro 2.0 and shoot in 24P Normal, every time I import the footage I get weird interlace lines or "mouse teeth" when there is movement. It happens like every third or fourth frame. I never had the problem before and have run a number of tests and still can't figure out why it is happening. So, I've been shooting 30P just to be safe.

If anyone has any thoughts, please let me know. Thanks.

Hmmm, no wonder the edges looks really clean with the 30p.
Did you try converting that footage to 24p in post with some CC, etc added?

I would love to see the final result. I believe you are trying these tests for a future project, right? Could we see what it will look like if you try to do all the neccesary things to make that particular clip look filmic.

Anyways, I tried your presets using the BlurBarn software and I did get some noise but I think the preset did not work because when I changed the control knob all the way to manual, and then changed the settings control to the preset you gave above, it seems not work, whereas, when the knob was at the Ext. Control, I could see the colors, crushed blacks etc. Does anyone knows what I am not clicking, changing etc?

Eniola:

OK, I'm almost embarrased to say this as I've been a XL2 owner for 2 years and have been using PPro for that long as well. Ever since I upgraded to PPro 2.0 and shoot in 24P Normal, every time I import the footage I get weird interlace lines or "mouse teeth" when there is movement. It happens like every third or fourth frame. I never had the problem before and have run a number of tests and still can't figure out why it is happening. So, I've been shooting 30P just to be safe.

If anyone has any thoughts, please let me know. Thanks.

Devon, I'm pretty sure that your problem you are encountering is how you are importing your video. I'm guessing you are recording 24p 2:3:3:2. You need to import your footage into your NLE so it will remove advanced pulldown. The import framerate should be 29.97 interlaced (yes interlaced). Your sequence timeline should be set to 24 progressive. There are several threads here with a link to another site that shows the exact settigns for importing 24p advanced into final cut. I had the EXACT same issue. Like every 4th frame would be sawtoothed, until I fixed the import, now it's smooth as butter (24 frames a second butter, which is not exactly that smooth).... later.

If your NLE has a color curves function, you should be able to darken JUST the black areas, without affecting the rest of the picture, and without using a mask.

I am trying to import 24p (3:2) or Normal, not advanced and I am importing into Premier Pro 2.0, not to Final Cut. Any thoughts?

I am trying to import 24p (3:2) or Normal, not advanced and I am importing into Premier Pro 2.0, not to Final Cut. Any thoughts?

Devon
I use my XL2 to capture footage using 24p frame rate setting and then edit it with Premier Pro 2.0 (DV-24p editing setting). I only use this setting(DV-24p) if the footages were captured in 24p. I never had any difficulty capturing the footages into P Pro 2.0 or editing it.
You did mentioned the word IMPORT. What do you mean?

This is how I do it.
Make sure the entire footage was shot in 24p (using your XL2's 24p). From your PC start Premier Pro 2.0. then choose <NEW PROJECT>. From the New Project's dialogue box, choose <DV - 24P> preset folder. Expand the folder by clicking on the <+> Tap if its not expanded. You will have 4 options. Make sure you select the correct setting. The next thing is to specify a folder and a name for your Project. Then click <OK> To open Premier Pro 2.0.
Once Premier Pro 2.0 has loaded, you must use it(PPro) to capture your 24p footages. To do this, hit F5 on your keyboad to open the capture window. and then you can start capturing your 24p footages.
This is the way I have been doing it. I hope this help. Other PPro users can also weigh in.

Anyways, I tried your presets using the BlueBarn software and I did get some noise but I think the preset did not work because when I changed the control knob all the way to manual, and then changed the settings control to the preset you gave above, it seems not work, whereas, when the knob was at the Ext. Control, I could see the colors, crushed blacks etc. Does anyone knows what I am not clicking, changing etc?

You engage custom presets using the two buttons under the handle. One toggles through and the other turns it on and off. If you don't see 'CP#' in the vf, you don't have it on. You won't actually see the '#' character, you'll see either 1,2, or 3 depending on which CP you have called up.

Hope this helps,

-gb-

Ed:

Thanks for running me through. The only reason I wasn't sure about using the 24P project settings is really two fold:

1. When you shoot normal 24P in the XL2 I shoot at the 2:3 pulldown. But if you look at the PPro 2.0 24P capture settings it shows 2:3:3:2, which is 24P Advanced. So that confused me.

2. If I capture and edit in a 24P project, I am not able to export back out to tape for submission to TV stations which require a normal NTSC 29.97 project.

Thoughts?

Premiere Pro 1.5 had a serious bug that mishandles 24p normal footage. Premiere Pro 2.0 will handle it just fine. The problem must be with your set-up. If you want to edit in 24P native you can set PP 2 to rebuild the C frame. Set your output settings to repeat frame (not 2:3:3:2) for output to DV tape or whatever media you are sending to a broadcaster. I prefer to edit in 29.97 timelines and shoot in camera 24P with 3:2 pull-up, in that workflow, there should never be any issues... All that being said, FCP is a MUCH MUCH better program for handling different formats/frame rates and many people swear by Vegas.



ash =o)

PS. for low light you can also switch your Gamma to Video which has less noise

Ed:

Thanks for running me through. The only reason I wasn't sure about using the 24P project settings is really two fold:

1. When you shoot normal 24P in the XL2 I shoot at the 2:3 pulldown. But if you look at the PPro 2.0 24P capture settings it shows 2:3:3:2, which is 24P Advanced. So that confused me.

2. If I capture and edit in a 24P project, I am not able to export back out to tape for submission to TV stations which require a normal NTSC 29.97 project.

Thoughts?

Devon

Answer to Q1

To set 24P playback options
1. Choose Project > Project Settings > General.
2. Click the Playback Settings button.
3. In the 24p Conversion Method pane, select one of the following options:
Repeat Frame (ABBCD) Duplicates frames where necessary to maintain 29.97 fps playback. This option uses fewer CPU resources.
4. Interlaced Frame (2:3:3:2) Combines the frames in a telecine-like scheme to maintain 29.97 fps playback. This option produces smooth playback but uses more CPU resources.
Click OK in the Playback Settings dialog box, and click OK in the Project Settings dialog box.
(Note - I have always use the (2:3:3:2 option in PPro2.0) because of one reason, smooth playback)

Answer to Q2
Ash is right
If you are submitting to a TV station, you can shoot in 24p w/XL2, then edit it in 29.97 Timeline and then export it to NTSC 29.97.
In a 29.97 Timeline, you can import clips which were shot in 60i, 29.97 and 23.97. (Note - PPro 2.0 will change the 24p footage(s) to 29.97. during importation)
Devon 24p is very nice an artistic. However if you are doing alot of middium pan and fast camera movements, then 30p should be the choice(Just my opion). Hope this help.

Ash and Ed, thanks a bunch for the input. I will work some more with the suggested changes. I have had just enough problems in the past that I've become comfortable with 30p. That being said, I like the look of 24p and want to keep the option open. Thanks again.

Devon