Here is a short film we shot back in February and just completed. Its 29MB and low quality, but still viewable.

http://hd-motionpictures.com/TwistofFate.html

I added a better quality Quicktime 110 MB. Dial ups, don't bother with the bigger file unless you have a week to download =)

Any questions or comments welcome inclduing constructive critisism and suggestions for improvement. PLEASE NOTE that some of the audio may lag due to streaming. I noticed that from playing back myself compared to the original file.

Thanks guys

Ill tell you this much, boy do I love this camera!

I think this film looks great! Now for all the questions im sure everyone else will ask ...

did you use the stock lens for the whole shoot?

what car mount system did you use?

did you capture to tape or did you 10bit component out?

What camera settings did you use (the built in cine gama settings in hd100 or did you make your own?)?

How long did it take you to film the whole shoot?

how much (if any) color correction did you use in post?

was there any unexpected problems that happened while using this camera? or editing its footage?

and last but not least...what program/system did you edit with? Avid/Premiere/fcp?

[EDIT] I did go to your website and see that some of the things ive asked are explained on there, but I want to leave these questions up just in case that equipment wasnt used for this shoot. [EDIT]

Sorry for all the questions but hey, IM sure others wanted to know anyway so I figured I would ask them all in one shot haha. Thanks in advance! I know when I post my work Ill be telling everyone all the details too haha.

Amazing picture! But picture aside, not that its not worth talking about, what did you record sound too? It's clean and rich. I would like to know what eqipment you recorded with.

Questions and answers:

did you use the stock lens for the whole shoot?

I used Nikon Lenses w/ Mini35 24mm, 50mm, 85mm and 135mm for some long shots. I think we did also use the 35mm.

what car mount system did you use?

We rented it, but I didn't like it. I am getting my own.

did you capture to tape or did you 10bit component out?

I went Firewire from camera to G5 and FCP via Luminere.

What camera settings did you use (the built in cine gama settings in hd100 or did you make your own?)?

The DP set it for me. But it was based partially on Tim's Reverse Stock (Three Kings)

How long did it take you to film the whole shoot?

2 1/2 days. Wayyyyy too short and I missed so many takes and coverage. Well, you learn from your mistakes.

how much (if any) color correction did you use in post?

None. We set the camera the way I wanted it and I left it as is. HOWEVER, I may do some corrections later.

was there any unexpected problems that happened while using this camera? or editing its footage?

Not enough time. Stuff out of focussed, underlite, problems with sound etc. Again, you learn from your mistakes.

and last but not least...what program/system did you edit with? Avid/Premiere/fcp?

I used FCP 5, Soundtrack and LiveType.


What did you think of the movie as whole? Story, acting etc?

Amazing picture! But picture aside, not that its not worth talking about, what did you record sound too? It's clean and rich. I would like to know what eqipment you recorded with.

We used MKH-60 Sennheiser Boom, TR-50 Tram Wireless, HOWEVER, I ended up experimenting and completed all sound in POST. I.e. The ONLY scene that was original location sound was the last scene. Everything else was done by me in post, including sound design, ADR, music etc. Since my background is audio, music and sound I wanted to test myself, so all the dialogue was done via voice over in Post, again, except the last scene, which was difficult to capture due to the emotion of that scene. All sound was done in Sountrack Pro.

Also, what did you think of overall movie? Story, acting etc?

Wow no wonder it sounded so clean. You mixed it down very well. The overall film was great. Acting was far better then most indy films I've seen. Very filmic picture too. You could pass that off as 16mm. How did you avoid blowouts in the highlights? Your setup really brought the HD100's great dynamic range into full effect. What kind of lighting did you use?

Wow no wonder it sounded so clean. You mixed it down very well. The overall film was great. Acting was far better then most indy films I've seen. Very filmic picture too. You could pass that off as 16mm. How did you avoid blowouts in the highlights? Your setup really brought the HD100's great dynamic range into full effect. What kind of lighting did you use?

The mix was done using proobably 8-10 different tracks, I did foley, ADR, sound design with effetcs to get as authentic sound as possible. At the end I think it worked, as no one so far was able to tell until I told them. THANK GOD =) wink!

We used a Lowell Lighting kit I own, and rented a HMI for some of the Diner scenes etc (bigger light). Blowouts were fixed with turning down the f stops =) and adding extra interior light. I personally don't mind the blowout look, but I was happy the way the camera worked under the conditions and time pressure we were in. Also, this was a real small crew trying to set up, carry, break down, sets from one location to another in a very short period, from Los Angeles to Yucca Vally desert. Considering we ddid pretty damn good, but I would need more time next time to work with actors and get more coverage.

To me personally the extreme amounts of ADR (overdubbing "Automated Dialogue Replacement" for you guys that doesn’t know what that is) kind of got to me, I owned a recording studio for 4 years, and I am an audio engineer as well. So that stuck out a lot for me, but the sync wasn’t that bad, sounded like you guys put lots of work into getting it to match right, but it was to much for my taste.

The story left me wanting to know what was going to happen with her husband. I was actually almost wanting to hear a gunshot sound at the very end of the film, indicating that he actually did go through with it... (I am a dark and twisted person in my films, I like extreme irony haha) but I thought the story idea was kind of cool...

as far as the acting i thought the acting was done well on the part of all the roles except the lead female... she would throw me off emotionally with what’s going on... I think what really happened was that when the ADR work was going on she didn’t really match up her emotion with the emotion she had on take so maybe I’m wrong and it was fine it was just that ADR getting to me a bit.

all in all i think its a nice little film, and I love the way it was shot. I hope to see it in HD format at some point in time, or at least at a higher resolution... Good job guys... oh and where are you guys located? IM in the NYC area and we are always looking to collaborate with other filmmakers.

To me personally the extreme amounts of ADR (overdubbing "Automated Dialogue Replacement" for you guys that doesn’t know what that is) kind of got to me, I owned a recording studio for 4 years, and I am an audio engineer as well. So that stuck out a lot for me, but the sync wasn’t that bad, sounded like you guys put lots of work into getting it to match right, but it was to much for my taste.

The story left me wanting to know what was going to happen with her husband. I was actually almost wanting to hear a gunshot sound at the very end of the film, indicating that he actually did go through with it... (I am a dark and twisted person in my films, I like extreme irony haha) but I thought the story idea was kind of cool...

as far as the acting i thought the acting was done well on the part of all the roles except the lead female... she would throw me off emotionally with what’s going on... I think what really happened was that when the ADR work was going on she didn’t really match up her emotion with the emotion she had on take so maybe I’m wrong and it was fine it was just that ADR getting to me a bit.

all in all i think its a nice little film, and I love the way it was shot. I hope to see it in HD format at some point in time, or at least at a higher resolution... Good job guys... oh and where are you guys located? IM in the NYC area and we are always looking to collaborate with other filmmakers.

We are in Los Angeles. Actually the ADR wasn't done until the last scene, which was the most emotional. I really didn't want to tell people I did ADR, since thus far no one was able to tell until I of course reveal it. I did it mostly to experiment with my capabilities as a sound designer. I will post a 90MB Quicktime file which is much better quality and a little bigger image.

Actually the ADR wasn't done until the last scene, which was the most emotional.

correct me if im wrong but i think you meant to say... the ADR wasn’t done on the last scene, which was the most emotional...

and don’t worry about the ADR work, I did the exact same thing on my first 30min short years ago. I had to remove EVERYTHING sound wise and start from the ground up... its not easy at allllllll. your ADR was fine, no one will notice it unless they are really picky, or someone like an audio engineer like me. Its good to see how much you can do, usually just takes a long time to do it.

have you decided what film festivals you want to go to yet? I know this film will kill at all local film festivals, you will probably win best of something for all of them.

HOWEVER, I ended up experimenting and completed all sound in POST. I.e. The ONLY scene that was original location sound was the last scene.

Hi Brian,

I did actually notice the ADR when I watched the film, however I doubt if a normal audience would.

Visually I thought it was great. I think you used the camera very nicely with some nice subtle movement.

My only critism is that the pacing was a little slow for my tastes. For example, there are 40 seconds of titles to start and then a few of the shots just hold for a little too long. That is just my taste though.

I thought that the acting was pretty strong across the board, although the ADR slightly harmed it in a few places.

Great job, I'd love to see a full rez version!

Hi Brian,

I did actually notice the ADR when I watched the film, however I doubt if a normal audience would.

Visually I thought it was great. I think you used the camera very nicely with some nice subtle movement.

My only critism is that the pacing was a little slow for my tastes. For example, there are 40 seconds of titles to start and then a few of the shots just hold for a little too long. That is just my taste though.

I thought that the acting was pretty strong across the board, although the ADR slightly harmed it in a few places.

Great job, I'd love to see a full rez version!

What I think you guys may be noticing is not really the ADR, but the audio lag from the pictute, which is normal watching streams, sinc eI do not get that on my DVD or wathing the original movie on my big screen. HOWEVER Please tell me specific points of dialogue, in case it needs to be fixed. I rather fix that now before submitting to festivals.

Just added High Rez.! =)

Giuseppe Pugliese wrote: "correct me if im wrong but i think you meant to say... the ADR wasn’t done on the last scene, which was the most emotional...

I stand corrected =) Its late here.

"Its good to see how much you can do, usually just takes a long time to do it."

Tell me about it. Mad proprs to sound guys out there doing Foley, Sound Design, ADR etc. Its a lot of work and goes underappreciated many times.

"have you decided what film festivals you want to go to yet? I know this film will kill at all local film festivals, you will probably win best of something for all of them."

WOW. You really think so? Thanks man. I needed to hear that.

Tomorrow I am sending to Montreal Film Festival. Then Sundance later on. There are like 160 festivals coming up in the next few months and picking the right ones isn't easy. Don't want to spend $10K in submission fees to do all of them, but rather be more selective. Any suggestions?

Where is this high quality quicktime file? I don't see it.

Where is this high quality quicktime file? I don't see it.

Uploading. 10 more minutes. Its slow, as my hosting server only does 50 KBs. Sucks, but nothing I can do about.

i say save your money on sundance, they are a pain to deal with... there is a 30min film called "Lift" shot on 35mm. it was AMAZING. and they didn’t make it into the festival... i mean this was THE best short film ive ever seen in my life, and they didn’t make it!... so i say save the money and stick with local stuff, the local stuff is what gets you the official selections and wins. Although in cali you might have more competition than here in nyc. The reality is that you will never really make money or a name for yourself in sundance with a short... its really for the features that get something out of it.

i say save your money on sundance, they are a pain to deal with... there is a 30min film called "Lift" shot on 35mm. it was AMAZING. and they didn’t make it into the festival... i mean this was THE best short film ive ever seen in my life, and they didn’t make it!... so i say save the money and stick with local stuff, the local stuff is what gets you the official selections and wins. Although in cali you might have more competition than here in nyc. The reality is that you will never really make money or a name for yourself in sundance with a short... its really for the features that get something out of it.

I hear ya. However, you can't win if you don't play, and the $25 it cost to submit to Sundance is worth just to try to get in, even if they don;t accept. As you say, its difficult to know why they pick certain films. Mine may be complete something they are NOT looking for, but then again, it may be exactly what they are looking for. Being selcted is worth the $25, IF you are selected. I will submit to maybe 15-25 festivals and see what happens.

Just added a high rez version. Should play better. Still the audio may be lagging due to the Stream video, which always has audio lagging, at least on my computers.

Brian that's excellent work. Makes me feel proud of my HD100u. One little thing I would've worked on a little bit more is the scene at the diner when her friend brings up the fact that the weirdo looks like her dad. She should've been more casual about it and the lead girl should've been a little less credulous at first-and perhaps some little joke in between would've helped. The transition from her friend suggesting that he looked like her father and her walking up to him to verify it was much too quick. Sorry it's just me being a backseat director here :-) So Brian, everything from the dialogue inside the car, the squish of the car seats, the door slam...all that was sound design done in post?

Wow Mr Duke, truly one of the best films shot on the HD100 yet. Story wise it is good the way it is. I am sure there is alot more you can do with the characters, and story to make it a a bit longer, overall Mr. Duke, "You the Man" I am From Long Beach Area, you ever need help on a film shoot just let me know...


Manny

Hey Brian.
Congratulations! The short looks really great. Good lighting, excellent work. I liked the look a lot and the story is nice. I would have liked seeing something ahppening to the husband though :)
This is the perfect example of what we've been talking about for so long. With what is available today, with the HD100 and other indie-reachable tools, you can tell a story that looks every bit as professional as anything else.

Again, congratulations and good luck.

What did you think of the movie as whole? Story, acting etc?
To me this part is always the toughest, way harder to handle than the technical stuff.
I liked the two male characters, the killer/dad was an interesting combination of face and voice. The daughter had some good moments, I think that the last dialogue where she says something along the lines of "let's not talk about the past, we will work it out..." was emotionally good, but the lines came out a bit like... acting. It can be just a matter of reharsing that a little more and trying diffent things. This was also the case with some of the dialogues with the other woman . Don't get me wrong, the performances were good and pleasant, there were just a couple of spots where the acting could sound a little more realistic.

Storywise I liked the twist but it didn't lead to a real conclusion. It's nice that father and daughter meat again but we want to know what happens to the couple. The hitman goes back and kills the husband? Does he tell his daughther about it? Why it was so important that the killer didn't miss the shot? What is the husband covering? Is there something happening while the killer talks with his daughter? And so, is it something incriminating the husband?

:)

Take care.

Brian that's excellent work. Makes me feel proud of my HD100u. One little thing I would've worked on a little bit more is the scene at the diner when her friend brings up the fact that the weirdo looks like her dad. She should've been more casual about it and the lead girl should've been a little less credulous at first-and perhaps some little joke in between would've helped. The transition from her friend suggesting that he looked like her father and her walking up to him to verify it was much too quick. Sorry it's just me being a backseat director here :-)


Thanks for your kind comments. Again, it was shot in 2 1/2 days so you can imagine we didn't have much time. The diner scene was even worse because we only had 3 hours to shoot it, AND it was open during those hours, which made it difficult. Loud noise in background. People interrupting etc, and yes I would have LOVED to have more time. Like I mentioned earlier I needed more TIME TIME TIME. I learned a lot from this little shoot, which to me was more of an experiment to test the equipment than anything. If I had another day or so, I would have spent more time with the actors, and covered more. I would say about 40% ended up being unusable, so I was limited in what I could use for editing.


So Brian, everything from the dialogue inside the car, the squish of the car seats, the door slam...all that was sound design done in post?

Yep, that's just me doing the tetious work, which I happen to like =) Really the only original sound you hear is a little from the bathroom, and the hotel room when "Danial" is alone with the rifle and then the last dialogue scene. Other than that, I did the sound design, foley etc.

Wow Mr Duke, truly one of the best films shot on the HD100 yet. Story wise it is good the way it is. I am sure there is alot more you can do with the characters, and story to make it a a bit longer, overall Mr. Duke, "You the Man" I am From Long Beach Area, you ever need help on a film shoot just let me know...


Manny
THANKS MAN !

Actually I wrote this to be a SPEC for a feature, but thought I needed some sort of ending to work it as a short too. But essentianlly this was made to be done as a SPEC since there is so much more to the story, bacground, and things to come after the meeting with the Daughter and Dad, which will be the core of the movie.

Your offer to help is good to know cause I WILL be doing several projects (different ones) coming up inn the next few months.

Storywise I liked the twist but it didn't lead to a real conclusion. It's nice that father and daughter meat again but we want to know what happens to the couple. The hitman goes back and kills the husband? Does he tell his daughther about it? Why it was so important that the killer didn't miss the shot? What is the husband covering? Is there something happening while the killer talks with his daughter? And so, is it something incriminating the husband?

Like I told Manny just now, the story was written as a Spec for a feature, so there's a LOT of stuff missing. It’s more of a character driven story, i.e. an actor's tool, rather than a plot driven one. Obviously the Dad goes through a lot when he meet his next kill who happened to be his daughter, and without giving away what he does, due to be ashamed of himself he has to chose between starting a relationship, or finishing what he was paid to do. In the beginning you hear him say, "I never failed once, and I don't see any reason why I should start now." Really to give the audience an indication that he is serious about work, and not the kind to fail, but then comes the dilemma with his daughter, and all the years of him abandoning her etc. She thinks he is being distant because he's cold, but he's thinking about all the stuff about whether ort not to tell her etc. There's more to come obviously, and hopefully it can spark some interest to be completed.

What did you think of the movie as whole? Story, acting etc?

Overall, I like the effort. Personally I liked parts of the diner scene best so don't sweat that too much. :-)

The things that hit me as potential issues would be:

- The overall length is a little long for the story and for festivals. Around 10 minutes gets you the best chance of being played. I think you could lose 3 minutes easy and probably more. Some of the scenes seemed really long to me. You could start the show at 1:20 and do titles for 30 seconds (max) and the story would work the same. I know it's painful to cut stuff you worked so hard to get, but that's what happens. Save the credits for the end, it's a short.

- The ADR was noticeable to me as well as some foley. I'm not a sound guy, but my gut feeling when listening was that the location background levels could probably be bumped up a bit. Perhaps room reverb on the voices need some tweaking. I'd be curious what the other sound guy thinks he's hearing and his prescription for working on it.

- The outside noise that the Dad reacts to in the hotel room didn't sound like it was coming through a door/wall. Muffle that somehow.

- makeup seemed overdone or wrong colors chosen on the actresses. A little late now, but a quick test ahead of time may have revealed it.

- On a story/plot level I think it's pretty weak. That may be because you say you couldn't use 40% of what you shot so I won't get into it. It just seems like a story that wants to be a thriller but ended up as a drama.

- I think the Opera music might have worked better for me if was introduced with the killer working on the gun and then his "stalk w/music" was intercut with the girl's day... so he's gradually getting closer and closer... once he's in their proximity I don't think I'd cut to their conversation though. It's pretty jarring for that music to come and go right there. If his music enters their world you'd know they were in big trouble. It doesn't even matter if we know which girl is the target - that's why you could drop the opening scene if you wanted to.

Overall I think you did a great job and it's better than 90% of the stuff out there.

The ADR was noticeable to me as well as some foley. Any specific points so I cange improve them?


The outside noise that the Dad reacts to in the hotel room didn't sound like it was coming through a door/wall. Muffle that somehow.

You're the first one that said it, but good point. Will work on that.

It just seems like a story that wants to be a thriller but ended up as a drama.

Actually it was always intended to be a drama. The story was never about a hitman, but about rekinddling a lost relationship. Yeah, I know, drama and those types of stories are not for everyone, but it was never intedned to be a thriller. The shots that were unusuable were more just better takes, different angles etc, not different story clips.

Overall I think you did a great job and it's better than 90% of the stuff out there.

Thanks man. It’s always interesting to hear people's comments. Usually if everyone’s points out the exact same issue there probably should be some changes made, but thus far I have heard people say some different, which I guess could be a good thing. The ADR only seems to come up when I tell people that it was ADR, which is why I didn't want to, but for technical reasons did. I am very meticulous about stuff like that and I do think there are a few places I need to redo some of it.

Any specific points so I cange improve them?

I think the ones that popped out at me were the opening scene - the very first dialog... maybe just add an imaginary car driving by off in the background when she does her line.

The girl's car driving conversation seemed too clean too. A little more wind noise perhaps and maybe and the stereo down a little.

I didn't personally notice any sync issues... it was more of a "this is so clean, it's too clean" feeling. I'm going through the same issues myself. I'm going to try to testing a sampling (convolving) reverb. Have you tried that?

I generally like the photography which is why I didn't mention it. You've got some good looks in there. Oh - the Star Wars wipes don't really match drama to my mind.

I read after I posted that this was intended to be a feature. If you're going to try to do a drama without stars it will be very tough to sell to distributors. If the script is really good approach better actors via their managers. If they aren't working they might make a deal with you.

One distributor advised me to "call distributors who distribute similar movies before you shoot a frame, they'll let you know what it would take for them to be interested."

The cool thing for you is you can direct them to your website and say - 90 minutes of "this" and see what they say. Their feedback will be better than most of what we can schlep at you. But as long as I'm schlepping...

I still think your shot at 1:20 is cool... I'm going to re-recommend at least do a test cut with that as the opening and nix a bunch of title credits. Ask some of your friends what they think, but to me it gets the show off to a start that might hook screeners more quickly. Then it cuts right to the girls... car to car, killer to victim... I'm tellingya it works. ;-)

I think the ones that popped out at me were the opening scene - the very first dialog... maybe just add an imaginary car driving by off in the background when she does her line.

Yeah, it does look a little off, BUT, when I play it with the original sound it flanges, which means it is so on. I think I learned a lot form this. One thing is that sound travels faster than our lips move, so when I look at other movies, the lips generally don't match the dialogue, but that's only when you look for it.

The girl's car driving conversation seemed too clean too. A little more wind noise perhaps and maybe and the stereo down a little.

I love all your comments, and believe it or not, I tried many different ways. My first feature I did had sound problems, because I tried to "even" out the background with the dialogue. Then you end up with a muffled sound. I played this back on my TV when I had more "even" (your suggestions) and you could hardly hear what they said. If you listen to most major features you will hear a very clean sound, i.e "in your face dialogue sound." I come from a mixing producing background and doing movie sound is very different. Dialogue should generally be a lot louder to stand out and be understood. I even took sound clips from movies I love and match it with what I have and it is VERY close, if not the same.

I didn't personally notice any sync issues... it was more of a "this is so clean, it's too clean" feeling. I'm going through the same issues myself. I'm going to try to testing a sampling (convolving) reverb. Have you tried that?

Yep, tried that too, and it didn't sound real. I did add eq and some minor reverb, but you have to be careful with that too, since it can make it sound relaly strange.

Oh - the Star Wars wipes don't really match drama to my mind.

Its so funny. Some people love that. You can't please everyone =)

I read after I posted that this was intended to be a feature. If you're going to try to do a drama without stars it will be very tough to sell to distributors. If the script is really good approach better actors via their managers. If they aren't working they might make a deal with you.

Another coincidence, I just told my friend the other day. Horror, Comedies can be sucessful without big name actors, but with drama you neeed names attached. I actually have another drama that I would ONLY do if a bigger name was attached. So you are right. Let me clear that up. Yes, it was made as a Spec Feature, BUT the main purpose was to test my camera and equipment, and just to have SOMETHING to show people. The idea of turning this into a feature sounds great in theory, but in practice probably not somehting I am pushing for.

I played this back on my TV when I had more "even" (your suggestions) and you could hardly hear what they said. If you listen to most major features you will hear a very clean sound, i.e "in your face dialogue sound."

Good idea, I'm going to pay a lot more attention. Also, different speakers systems sound way different and I'm not exactly on reference monitors here. I plead guilty to not being a sound designer. I'm trying to learn as much as I can right now. I'm pretty convinced I'll be doing ADR a lot so I want to get a workflow nailed down.

Ultimately, you're right. It's way better to have understandable dialog. I'd agree with the others who said your average viewer isn't going to notice.

Star Wars wipes ... Its so funny. Some people love that. You can't please everyone =)


Hehe - take a few more votes on that one. :-)

Anyway - there should be no doubt you can pull off a feature with this gear and have it look good. How does it look in HD?

... different speakers systems sound way different and I'm not exactly on reference monitors here. I plead guilty to not being a sound designer.

Yeah, I played the movie on what I mix on, i.e. flat Yahma Speakers and the dialogue is REALLY in your face, and my friend said to me, "hey you need to fix the audio, its really "bad." However, he changed his mind quickly listening to the DVD on a tv set, in addition to a regular surround system. Yeah, speakers can make a huge difference. It sounds great on my TV with and without my surround sound. I even compared to movies playing on cable and the sound was identical, which was a good sound.

Anyway - there should be no doubt you can pull off a feature with this gear and have it look good. How does it look in HD?

Looks amazing. Well, with the exception of the few complaints I had originally. Such as; some stuff not lid right to me. I think it was a timing issue. I only shot the first scene myself. Everything was done by a DP at my direction with time constraints.

I am From Long Beach Area, you ever need help on a film shoot just let me know...
Manny

What do you do Manny? I may have some work coming up soon for another short I wrote.

Thanks for puting that video up. I was really interrested in the story and it had a real hollywoood opening. Good music. I really liked the actors - it didn't seem so indie with them in there. I guess you are from LA!

I also have the hd-100 and am proud what you have done with the camera and I can honestly say it is the best footage out of the HD-100 i've seen! It also goes to show how a good script, story, lighting and setting up shot goes a long way when trying for a film look. It is not all just pixels and compression quality to make a great picture.

If you need a hand - jeez- I will fly down!

Thanks for puting that video up. I was really interrested in the story and it had a real hollywoood opening. Good music. I really liked the actors - it didn't seem so indie with them in there. I guess you are from LA!

I also have the hd-100 and am proud what you have done with the camera and I can honestly say it is the best footage out of the HD-100 i've seen! It also goes to show how a good script, story, lighting and setting up shot goes a long way when trying for a film look. It is not all just pixels and compression quality to make a great picture.

If you need a hand - jeez- I will fly down!

Hey Scott,

T H A N K S !

Its funny you should say that "[i]t is not all just pixels and compression quality to make a great picture." When I first joined here (DVINFO) I mentioned that there may be too much heated debates over which camera has the best resolution, best frame rates etc, well, you know the deal, rather than focussing on just shooting a movie with a decent story. Mind you, the audience out there care less about resolution, but more on seeing something interesting in motion on the big screen or TV.

Again thanks for your kind words and encouragement. I need it. Making movies is a roller coaster.

Also, I actually finsihed a script tonight that I will be shooting next few weeks. Not sure what you do, but we can ALWAYS use help. Especially a good DP, or someone that knows lighting. =)

Hey Brian,
I thought the sound was pretty danged good. I'd like to know your process. If you stripped everything you obviously replaced ambience. Was it sound or room tone from the location? Or did you just start from scratch. Did you compress the dialogue? If so, what software, program, etc. I also thought the lighting looked great for a basic lowell kit.

You obviously caught us up in the story when we all wanted to see the husband get the bullet.

Thanks!

Hey Brian,
I thought the sound was pretty danged good. I'd like to know your process. If you stripped everything you obviously replaced ambience. Was it sound or room tone from the location? Or did you just start from scratch. Did you compress the dialogue? If so, what software, program, etc. I also thought the lighting looked great for a basic lowell kit.

You obviously caught us up in the story when we all wanted to see the husband get the bullet.

Thanks!

Hi Warren,

Thanks for your supporting comments. I actually deleted all the original sound files, and started from scratch suing Soundtrack Pro. When I did the ADR I obviously used the original sound for sync purposes. Everything else was done using Foley, my sound library etc. No ambient was used from the original locations except a little bit in the motel room. Its tedious work, but I've been doing it for so long and a meticulous person and a perfectionist and my own worst critic.

I didn't compress the dialogue, as it didn't sound good. I added some EQ and used a good mic when recording everything.

The story continues in my mind, or maybe on day on the big screen =). The story was really about the relationship between the daughter and father, but I never got to that. Maybe in the next Episode, the Return of the Sixth Dad. !

Hi Brian, I just saw your movie and I thinks is very good. Unfortunately if you listen to all we say then it's not going to be your movie anymore, the most important thing is that it's finished and it works, I don't know if it works the way you intended to but ...

I noticed that you had more room tone in the last scene in the motel, but then again I started to read the post before I watched the short so if you didn't say anything about the sound maybe... I would try to go to the locations you shot the other scenes and get some natural sounds to use as room tone under the dialogue...

I also noticed that the scene when Daniel rides his truck is too shacky.

The story is good. It's not the way I would have told it, I would have not revealed anything until the last scene and also I would have used the scenes in a non-chronologial order. I know, maybe then it might look more like a supense flick. I always try to make people believe a different story and then twist it at the end.
I hope this helps.

At least I can say it looks 100 times better than my shortfilms!
http://www.eraldofilms.com
I warned you not to go there!
Adrian.

...the most important thing is that it's finished and it works, I don't know if it works the way you intended to

Thanks for your comments. Well, it did and it didn't turn out the way I intended. Like I mentioned on this post, we just didn't have much time for a variety of reasons, but it did come close to what the script was on paper. Again, I would have loved to have had more time to work with the actors and try different things, and also get more coverage of each scene not to be stuck with 1-2 takes to choose from in the end. You live and learn.

. I would try to go to the locations you shot the other scenes and get some natural sounds to use as room tone under the dialogue...

I did use some fo the room tone in both motel scenes. The diner scene was so noisy and so was the opening scenes, and the car scenes so using sound from there wouldn't work out.

I also noticed that the scene when Daniel rides his truck is too shacky.

Yeah, the car mount was expensive to rent amnd it SUCKED in my opinion. However, the shakiness I don't mind since it is him, and it gives oyu a felling of distortion, but YES it does shake.

The story is good. It's not the way I would have told it, I would have not revealed anything until the last scene and also.

Interesting. I am not sure if it would be easy to follow and make sense to an audience. One paper a lot of times it can look like a great idea, but when you actually watch it back people miss the point. We actually went back to shoot the first scene, as there was no connection between Glenn (the husband) and Corine (wife) and it needed to be established or you would just have some guy hiring, not knowing if he was related to her. I am a narrative person, and I know if a movie is too confusion you lose the edge. Again, that's just my two cents. It is very difficult to follow a movie like Memento. Also, this was intended for a drama and to be about the rekinddling of a relationship, not a murder, infidelity, and betrayal. That's for the sequel =)

Overall I REALLy appreciate all the comments, inclduing yours. They ehlp me improve this and future projects. Will take a look at some of your work.

Yeah, the car mount was expensive to rent amnd it SUCKED in my opinion. However, the shakiness I don't mind since it is him, and it gives oyu a felling of distortion, but YES it does shake.

Brian, can you more detail on this mount? I've cobbled together my own mounts with pump-type suction cups, rods and grip heads so I'm interested in hearing about other people's experiences.

Brian, can you more detail on this mount? I've cobbled together my own mounts with pump-type suction cups, rods and grip heads so I'm interested in hearing about other people's experiences.

I forget which one it was. It was BIG metal mount that is strapped tightly on to the car. However, since my camera is 20lbs with the Mini35 and pretty long it shook the camera, which we partly fixed when we shot the girls in the car, but just didn't have time to reshoot the scene with "Daniel." So it was the same car mount the whole time. well, actually I think we had two. One for the hood and one for the sides. I am buying a different one myself. Hope that helps.

Hey Brian. Great job on the project. Could you tell us your experience with HD-motionpictures.com and companies like these? Would you recommend these services to other filmmakers? I"ve never used them and was curious about what the benefits were in going through these companies.

Hey Brian. Great job on the project. Could you tell us your experience with HD-motionpictures.com and companies like these? Would you recommend these services to other filmmakers? I"ve never used them and was curious about what the benefits were in going through these companies.

Hi Amos,

I am part of HD Motion Pictures, and we are JUST getting started, but I can tell you it is worth it for filmmakers to have a one-stop place. If they only had companies out there like this I would have gone myself a long time ago.

The benefits are:

1. Fast, responsible, reliable service.
2. Creative input to improve on what you have.
3. Less responsibility for the filmmaker which should spend time on the developing the project, not producing, casting, hiring crew, renting etc. (we do it all for a very reasonable price)
4. Great production value for the amount of money you spend, regardless of the genre you pick.

"Twist of Fate" was done to jump start this company and to show others what we are capable off, and hopefully help other get their dream done, rather than talking about it. Obviously, each filmmaker will have their own story and creative design, but we can handle all the legwork and ask the tough questions to make the movie as good as possible.

If you have a project in mind, let’s talk. For the amount of money it will cost to rent equipment, crew, editors, locations, permits, insurance etc you will get a bargain, and save a bunch of time on research and having to deal with a million different places. However, if you are just shooting a small minidv film with friends and family you probably don’t need us =)

Man, I wish I could watch that MOV, but Quicktime for Windows is awful, it's dropping tons of frames on a 2 Ghz machine. Ridiculous. I wish they would actually optimize it for Windows.

EDIT: I just reread a bunch of posts and realized you didn't really have time to actually shoot a lot of this stuff and get it right, which is hard on anybody. I'll leave it as I wrote, though.

As far as critiques, it's most just stuff in the editing and the types of shots. I would've liked to have seen more reaction shots and 2-shots in the final scene, and more CUs through the windshield in the opening scene with Daniel and the husband. I don't like when I see a cut to a shot that's identical except for being reversed, I generally prefer a cut to a different type of shot, though I realize that was unavoidable with how you were shooting the car scene with the two women. If you could have shot that scene from another vehicle either in front or to the side I think that would have given you more variety, as long as your camera car doesn't have a head-on collision. =D The shot from the car's right side, while probably necessary to allow you to cut around the good takes and sections, just looked bad with the women backlit. The scene in the restaurant could have used more of that 2-shot from the side of the table instead of being all OTSs.

I really don't want to seem harsh, since you really have done a good job, and I haven't mentioned all of the things you've done *right,* I'm just a perfectionist.

Some people have said the head-on shot with Daniel driving is too shaky. I don't really think so. It is noticeable, but it doesn't actually look *bad,* it just looks like a car driving on a bumpy road. I've seen shots just as shaky in the same sort of context in big budget features, so I wouldn't worry about it. Some people are too quick to say "OMG shakiness" whenever they see any hint of anything not completely smooth. I say it's all about context, a shot like that would be inappropriate in, say, the last scene of this film, but it doesn't look out of place in a driving scene at all.

So Duke, how is the mini35? I hear it loses a lot of light and it adds grain. I was thinking of getting a 35mm adaptor. People say the redrock is solid with better performance and lower price.

As far as critiques, I would've liked to have seen more reaction shots and 2-shots in the final scene, and more CUs through the windshield in the opening scene with Daniel and the husband. I don't like when I see a cut to a shot that's identical except for being reversed, I generally prefer a cut to a different type of shot, though I realize that was unavoidable with how you were shooting the car scene with the two women. If you could have shot that scene from another vehicle either in front or to the side I think that would have given you more variety, as long as your camera car doesn't have a head-on collision. =D The shot from the car's right side, while probably necessary to allow you to cut around the good takes and sections, just looked bad with the women backlit. The scene in the restaurant could have used more of that 2-shot from the side of the table instead of being all OTSs.

Stephen,

In the last scene, we had no time unfortunately, and ended up with the two C.U., two takes and not much to pick from. With what I had, I am amazed of how it came out. I do have a wide shot, but it was out of focus, as some of the other shots. (I didn't pull focus in this movie, so don't blame me.)

The girls driving, I do have shots of them from the front of another car, but it just didn't come out right, or as I envisioned. Also, in the diner scene I have a shot of them from the side from across the table, but it just didn't cut right, and there were lighting issues.

The opening scene I also have a variety of shots, such as the front etc, and more side shots, but again, when I went to the editing room, they really didn't cut well together.

Yes, you are right, but I can only use what I have that actually work when cut, and again, my issue was not enough time.

Don’t worry about being harsh, especially since you are being specific. I appreciate the criticism, as it helps me learn and do better next time around.

So Duke, how is the mini35? I hear it loses a lot of light and it adds grain. I was thinking of getting a 35mm adaptor. People say the redrock is solid with better performance and lower price.

I shot this movie with the Mini35, so it speaks for itself. Either people like the way it looks or they don't. I happen to like it, and yes, of course, there's some grain, but I also like that. It gives you more of a film look, rather than video. I have also seen the JVC with the Mini35 blown up on 35mm film on big screen and it still looked great.

It does lose about 2 stops of light, which is why you need someone to understand that they need to add the necessary light to compensate, ESPECIALLY for interior shots. Is it worth getting? YES 100%. Again, everyone will have a different opinion, but at the end of the day what is important to me, is a good story, interesting actors, and well-directed movie regardless of what you use to shoot it with. My opinion is that there is way too much emphasis on resolution, frame rates, color aberration, compression etc (tech stuff) and not enough focus on story telling. Look at the way a lot of the reality shows are shot, like some of the dating shows and people still love them, even though they have bad sound and look like cheap video. It really doesn't matter, as long as they engage you.

If you can afford a film adapter, get one, but at the end of the day the most important start for any filmmaker is: a) good idea, then b) good script, c) good casting, d) good direction, e) good editing f) good sound, and then g) the proper music to go along. All this can be done well without using an expensive camera, or even a good camera.

Think about it. Is the problem with most movies you see the quality of the picture or the story and acting? Go to a festival and make your own call. I say the latter, which is why i work very hard on focussing on that and will make much more of an effort to have more time to shoot next time around.

Now go get your adapter =)

- The ADR was noticeable to me as well as some Foley. I'm not a sound guy, but my gut feeling when listening was that the location background levels could probably be bumped up a bit. Perhaps room reverb on the voices need some tweaking. I'd be curious what the other sound guy thinks he's hearing and his prescription for working on it.

I think "the other sound guy" is me? haha I’m not sure but if so this is my outlook on it... Just to give you a point of view of how I’m hearing it... I am listening/watching your film in my editing room with tuned event 20/20 speakers (right out of my recording studio) I also have a pair of consumer sonys just to hear what it sounds like to other people. The room is acoustically tuned, and is pretty accurate. all speakers are isolated (floated) from all objets with their stands. I have a 5.1 surround setup as well as a stereo setting (just turning THX off)

now that you know how im hearing it, here’s what I think you can do to re-work the sound...

add a lot more ambient sounds/noise... this well help make it more believable, I don’t know if you used any limiters or gates because the compressed file wont really be able to show me that, but if you are turn them OFF. instead EDIT out all the noise in the dialogue track that you don’t want, and then add a very quick fade out only at the end of the edits... this will help IF you have problems with the dialogue sounding to isolated which you might. you should take some room and outdoor ambient sound takes... you might already have them on file... but if you really wanna re-work it you should track some wildsound outside in a quiet area and leave the mics open and clean... then blend that in with the layers you already have don’t delete only add.

Lots of people are afraid to add layers in their audio, but this is how you get the real sounds. If its "clean" its not going to sound right, dirty up the sound... add all different kinds of wild sound recordings in the background and mix them until they sound real... for mixing there’s no way for me to explain how to do this, its an art, but try to hear that sweet spot once you get the mix sounding REAL.

as for sound fx... lower them... its nice that you have great sounding doors opening and closing... but it sticks out to much... you don’t want the people to be able to say wow that was a great door sound... you want them to think you never did anything at all... if you don’t notice it that’s usually when you're work is the best. This is the biggest problem i hear in all indie work, (not to say i haven’t made these mistakes as well in my time) but just keep the sound fx lower. don’t let them take away from what’s happening visually, its supposed to blend, not one compete for the other.

scores should be mixed WITH ALL ambient nose as well... don’t just take a score and have that as all your sound... try to mix in as much as you are seeing... if you see that they are outside, let the audience hear the outside, if you see them moving there clothing a lot, add that, and so on and so on. Just make sure you blend it ALL don’t leave things out, that’s when its noticeable. The score should be telling the story musically WITH the sound fx... score and sound fx are the hardest thing to blend until the very end. make sure that the overall sound will take you into the story, not make you think wow they sound so clean, they sound so perfectly picked up. that takes away from the visual not add. (now that’s not to say it shouldn’t sound great) but as I like to say, dirty up your sound, it will come out better.

as for a person who doesn’t do foley and ADR for a living you did a very good job on your first attempt to redo all sound. there’s nothing you did any different than what I did the first time I removed all the sound from one of my shorts... so you are doing fine, and I hoped this helped you or anyone else out there whose looking to do ADR and foley work.

so theres my 2 bits :)

Giuseppe,

Thanks for your input. I guess it comes down to different ears hearing different things and a matter of likings.

I did play on a variety of systems and it all sounded good to others and me. In addition I matched it up with other feature films to compare and it sounded very close, if not the same. I think if you know or are told that there are certain area of sound to listen to they stick out much more. I tried turning down some of the sound and then listen back, but it didn't sound right. I actually like when there are certain sounds that stick out such as footsteps if the scene calls for that, or a loud door slamming indicating "f$ck you." Also, I did use a lot of the ambient from the original rooms.

If there are specific places, such as someone pointed out about the laughter in the motel room sounding like it didn't come form outside, it will help me better since I can pinpoint the issue. I have listened to the sound probably 300 times and with 25 years of a sound background I can't hear much problems, but then again, I may be so used to it =)

I agree with a lot of what you say, I am just not sure what places in the movie where it applies. I am not sure I agree that music should ALWAYS be accompanied with the ambient sounds. Again, that is probably a matter of style and direction, but there are plenty of great flicks that have places with music only where it works.

A good way to practice is to watch a good Hollywood feature and put on loud headphones WITHOUT watching the images and just listen to the sound. You will get a different set of ears afterwards when it comes to sound. You be surprised how the sound is mixed and heard, but people don’t pay attention to it when they watch images generally.

So if you can point out some places where it sounds empty, too loud, strange etc I would appreciate it so I can make any changes. Thanks!

That’s just my 24 bit =)

Since you asked for specific spots:

The second car door closing sound (when the women gets out of the car) is early...

In addition it the wrong kind of sound for the way she closes the door.

The first door, driver's side, sounds fine; the sound mathes the firmly closed door.

However, on the second close, the passenger's door, she closes the door not quite hard enough then pushes it all the way shut. What we hear is a firm close, before the door is actually closed, not a close that matches the way she closes it.

An interesting movie of an indie/low budget movie that was a big hit and did not shoot sound with picture is Rodriguez's El Mariachi.

Then there are all of the Italian western's (such as The Good, the Bad and the Ugly).
I see most of the new, big-budget and good independent releases in a screening theater in L.A. A lot have the more subltle blended sounds. But some, even the biggest budget, have sounds up front in many cases. If it is by choice, and it is consistent, and it works with the film, the audience quickly adapts to whatever style it is.

However, bad sound will get people to walk out, but the same people will sit through the most horrid quality picture if the sound is good and easy to listen to.

If there is a point to this post it is: Pay as much attention to the quality of microphones, mixer, and sound recording technique as to the camera and picture recording settings.

Brian I enjoyed very much your movie. I wish you the best with it. As I liked the image, even if I have seen only the low resolution version, I was wondering if you could post the setings that you have been using. I wish you luck at the festivals and bravo again. You gave us a short with mood, that is more important than the details and the ideas...
Panos

Brian I enjoyed very much your movie. I wish you the best with it. As I liked the image, even if I have seen only the low resolution version, I was wondering if you could post the setings that you have been using. I wish you luck at the festivals and bravo again. You gave us a short with mood, that is more important than the details and the ideas...
Panos

Thanks =)

I will be psoting a higher resolution for Windows soon. The settinsg were pretty much Tim's Reverse (Three Kings). I am not sure I still have them in my camera, but they are posted as a STICKY here. When I geta chance I will post them if I see any major differences. Thanks again.