Hello all. First of all I just want to say - WHAT A FANTASTIC FORUM!! Well done Chris Hurd for developing this.

For nearly a year now I have been experimenting new ground glass techniques for a static adapter with the help of a biochemist friend and his university's lab equipment. Using various chemicals we have developed our own liquid/wax which makes it very easy to apply onto glass. The most important factors when making gg is in the application and drying technique. We used a mixture of liquid nitrogen and air, some freeze sparays available for pipe work might work for those who dont have access to LN2.

Due to the very promising results we have decided to make a complete adapter although we are not experts in the field of video making and understanding the different settings. Upto now we have had the help of a local cameraman to help us learn the basics but need more help to fully understand what makes the PERFECT adapter.

I am willing to make some custom sized gg for people on this forum (for a small fee of $10 or something for postage and packaging) to try the glass for themselves and possibly make their own static adapter.

What we ultimately aim to do is commercially produce an adapter for the filmmakers market and produce the gg seperately for diy adapter makers.

I am awaiting the delivery of my new Sony Z1 to enable me to start providing demos and stills. If there are particular settings that you would like the adapter or lens to be set at to see what it offers please let me know and I will be happy to provide it. After all, this forum is designed to bring the DV community together and help each other out in producing the perfect equipment and ultimately the perfect footage.

I also want your views on what makes the perfect adapter housing ie: size, thread dimensions, popular adapter sizes, lens mounts etc. For now I am constructing the first adapter around the Z1 with a Nikon F mount.

I'll pay $10 to test out your new GG. Tell me what to do!

Please let me know of a diameter that you would like and email me the details. I am in the process of using my savings to setup my own mini lab/factory as I cannot keep using the university's equipment. I should be ready to start making GG in about 3 weeks. A family relative has a glass company who laser cuts the glass so glass is easy to obtain. It is specifically used in scientific applications, Its not your day to day glazing or picture frame glass but still cheap.

Email is below.

Thanks for your interest.

Tony.

One of the most severe tests is to shoot at about 45degrees off the sun, high thin bright overcast overhead, high contrast low textured environment, light tawny red colour or light olive green colour, SLR lens set at f4 or even tighter.

Most adaptors including the P+S Technik products pretty much clag out at tighter than f5.6 and develop grain, swirl or streaking effects though some cope better than others. P+S Technik recommend against using their adaptor with the lens aperture set tighter than f5.6.

If you can get a wax coat evenly formed on a CD-R sized disk, capable of remaining the way it was sprayed on, you may yet be the hero of the piece.

A wax disk is very definitely the best, but for the one defect I found, severe flicker due to the thickness of the layer around the disk being impossible to control. I'm talking a variation of about 1.5f stops which made my disk virtually unwatchable.

Static glass is a workable method but moving glass seems to be better.

Thanks for your reply Bob. I only call it a liquid/wax because it sets like a wax. The chemicals and liquids used form no part of a wax but so as not to confuse people I just call it a liquid wax. If I used the names of the chemicals and liquids as a name it would probably be entered into the Record Books as the longest name in the world. Looks like I'm gonna have to come up with some fancy name for it so as not to confuse it with actual wax. Im open to suggestions, fancy cool names only. LOL.

What lens would you recommend for this test (Nikon Lenses only for now)?

Hi Tony,

I wouldn't mind giving it a test. Im based in Brighton on the south coast, about an hour from London. I have an array of different types of GG's here to compare yours against, including microwax and the optosigma 1500.

How much in pounds to give it a test drive to a fellow englishman?

Hello

If it is possible I'd like to test your GG, too.

Thanks

P.S. I tried to send you email, but mail delivery failed.

Hi Wayne, I have actually emailed you several times but have had no reply. The reason that I emailed you is because you are close to me being in Brighton (hour away). Anyway about GG, just cost of P+P. Will let you know. Please specify the dimensions that you would like the GG so as I can order the size glass. No matter what the dimensions of the glass we have devised an equation to enable the same amount of liquid administered to each piece therefore every piece should be the same.

Hi
I'm a Director working in London I'd love to give the glass a whirl.
Regards Stephen

Tony,

Ok, i will email you now.

P.S...Hello Stephen, have not heard from you in a while, you must come and give the SGpro a test drive again!!!

Oops, sorry everyone. Email address is tony@eldavinci.com for now.

OK, email sent, I hope it gets through this time ;)

Got it. That I can do. I am trying to devise a seal so it can be used on rotating systems otherwise due to the constant rotating the glass will eventually separate from the liquid. For the static solution I have had a threaded seal CNC milled to house the glass. The seal itself is threaded so it can be screwed accurately into the the adapter cylinder.

OK,
If you can't do a disk, just sent us a static over, ill test it out for you.

i'd be very interested to see the results of this and possibly the chemical constituents of the substance :p.

Blimey, I should of added a few more zeros to the $amount. I don't mind seeing as it is for testing only. If successful I might make the glass available as a separate product. Due to the big response I have had I will limit the amount of testers as they do take time to prepare but for now I dont mind as I want it tested under many conditions.

Does anyone have any preferences as to what would make the ideal housing for the adapter ie: ring sizes, preferred lens mounts etc?

LOL, I was wondering when someone was gonna ask what is substance is. That would be telling. With the Movietube as soon as the patent became available to the public domain everyone has tried to replicate it. If I am to try and make it a commercially available product then the secret recipe must not be known, just like coca cola. But as I said before the glass will be available to buy separately.

Tony and the rest of you, you're really going to dish out £10 to test out a gg that hasn't been tested yet or seen? This guy could make some quick money whilst you guys are 10 pounds short. Not a bet worth on taking. Be wise.

Tony, show us what you got before you sell something..

some pics would be nice

If you were to read what I said the fee was to cover P+P for testing only, not for profit. $10 dollars was the maximum amount for worldwide postage. UK postage will only probably be between £2 - £3 maximum. Plus I am only going to limit the testers to a maximum of about 10 - 15 people.

As stated, I am awaiting my Sony Z1E. Do not worry, I wont send out testers out until stills and footage is available.

Wayne - I just sent you email via DVinfo.

Tony,

It does not seem to be working, i have had trouble with this before.

Please send email to waynekinney@hotmail.com or info@sgpro.co.uk

Wayne - Will do now.

I would like to test the GG as well.

Wayne - Sent.

Wayne - Got it?

Wayne,

The measurement that you emailed me - Is that what yours is?

Tony,

This is off topic, please email me regarding this.

Please let me know of a diameter that you would like and email me the details. I am in the process of using my savings to setup my own mini lab/factory as I cannot keep using the university's equipment. I should be ready to start making GG in about 3 weeks. A family relative has a glass company who laser cuts the glass so glass is easy to obtain. It is specifically used in scientific applications, Its not your day to day glazing or picture frame glass but still cheap.

Email is below.

Thanks for your interest.

Tony.
51.5mm diameter round, and if you can do rectangles, I'd also buy a 25mm X 37.5mm

51.5mm diameter round, and if you can do rectangles, I'd also buy a 25mm X 37.5mm

Actually Thorlabs says to use 50mm optics in their tube, so 50mm instead of 51.5mm (as measured).

Let me know how and where to purchase when you're ready...

Hi Donnie,

Can you email me at tony@eldavinci.com so as I can send you a diagram of what we can send you.

Thanks,

We have sourced the actual manufacturer mount rings for the DiGi35 as opposed to using T-mounts. To get an idea on what the favorites are can you let me know on your next post everybody. Be good to see just how many different mounts people use. Also what diameter your camcorder lens is.

Thanks,

If the bokeh is good I'll buy the glass in a fast second. Out of all the diffusing options, none except the G35's hi?-lux (wax?) deliver quality bokeh, and I think it's one of the qualities that's grossly overlooked in a focusing screen.

Thank you for everyones interest in the DiGi35 GG. All 10 orders have now been filled.

To those who have ordered the DiGi35 GG, you will be notified by email once the DiGi35 GG is ready to be shipped.

Footage and Stills from my Sony Z1E will be available at www.digi35.co.uk shortly. This will be available before the DiGi35 GG orders are confirmed.

Thanks,

Out of all the diffusing options, none except the G35's hi?-lux (wax?) deliver quality bokeh...

I take exception to that remark (http://go-35.com/vids/outside2-h264-2pass.mov) :)

Would this work for a revolving GG? I'm in the process of making a Redrock Micro DIY 35mm adapter and wanted to test different GG elements.

Thanks,

Jim

With regards to the rotating option we are devising a threaded seal for the DiGi35 GG to ensure that no glass separation occurs. We shall let you know the progress of this.

I take exception to that remark (http://go-35.com/vids/outside2-h264-2pass.mov) :)

Touchè, dude. That's totally some serious mamma-jammin' sweet bokeh goin' on there :)

With regards to the rotating option, what is the most popular diameter? Is it CD size? Our prototype rotating GG with seal is 120mm in diameter with a 25mm aluminium centre seal for mounting.

What diameters are you all using?

I presume the fact that you're trying to make gg's to suit spinners means the grain is too much for static? Just curious.

Oh no of course not. The GG will be a separate product available to buy for people who cannot afford the complete adapter. There are hundreds, maybe thousands of people out there who have DIY adapters but dont have the perfect GG or who need a replacement GG. Our aim is to cater for people of all budgets and requirements. If someone has an adapter, the last thing that they want to do is shell out lots more money for another one, instead they can just upgrade and buy the GG.

The whole concept of the 35mm camcorder DOF adapter market is to cater for the film industry where big budgets or large sums of money for equipment are not available therefore we aim to cater for everyones needs.

I hope this answers your question.

Well if the grain is ok without moving the gg, why would anyone bother moving it, and introduce the bulk and noise of a spinner for no reason? Making a big gg for a spinner strikes me as a lot of wasted effort if you don't need to spin it, that's all I'm saying.

I didnt say it had to move.

The rotating option is purely only for the adapter, we are not saying that it has to be spun, all we are providing is a GG of a particular diameter designed to fit a rotating adapter to save the cost of having to buy a static adapter. As a rotating GG is generally attached from one side we have developed a seal to ensure that no glass separation occurs to extend the life of the GG.

The GG has a different seal in our static adapter and is of a different diameter so the GG cannot be used in a rotating system.

To simplify your question we will provide 2 GG products.

- One for a static system

- One to fit an existing rotating adapter (GG does not need rotating)

Our website is near completion so sample footage and stills will be available www.digi35.co.uk shortly

For the uninitiated amongst us, what is gg ,some kind of lenes filter or fitting?

It is the focusing screen onto which the image is projected from a 35mm SLR lens. The camcorder records this image. The main concern is visible grain in the material.

Tony, if you plan to create rotating gg option, then 90mm diameter would be a perfect choice. it can be mounted to a cd player motor or a pc motor and have the perfect amount of area left for a 36mm by 25mm frame. that way, your not wasting space by making a much larger cd sized disk.

the only reason people used cd-r sized gg was because thats what was avaible. it in no way needs to be that big. take the Sg35 for instance.

Due to the middle and outer seals we would have to extend the diameter slightly to ensure that a 36 x 24 screen can be captured as the seals are quite wide due to the ultra, ultra thin glass.

Tony.

Just a thought. If people are going to use the GGs dynamically in a spinner design, you might need to consider matching pairs of your glass layers. Maybe your lasercutting process is good enough to get the precision where this is not needed.

I found with what I called composite wax disks, that it was very hard to get a good balance and that I needed to spin pairs "dry" on a hub and motor to match them first beforehand and even then there was no guarantee.

There is also a tendency, however slight for each disk to slip offset relative to the other. Just a fraction of a mm was enough. Bot would still go on the hub no problem.

The wax composite disks were quieter than a single glass disk. I think they would have greater resistance to breakage in the way a laminated car windscreen does.

I gave up on wax disks because arriving at a solution was beyond my technical precision skills.

To ensure accuracy, two sheets of glass are sandwiched together and one pass is made to cut the glass therefore the glass underneath is near perfect to the top piece. O-rings are added to the seal to ensure no movement or separation occurs. The composition of our GG does not consist of any form of wax.

All the GG that we will supply is for a static solution, not rotation is needed. We are only providing a rotating GG to fit rotating adapters as our standard GG for the DiGi35 adapter is of a different size. This is to be a solution for people who already have an adapter but dont want to shell out money for another.

Tony,
How 'grainless' is the GG? Are you able to stop down the SLR lens without grain? Also, how about its diffussion level? This directly relates to the bokeh produced. Only reason I ask is since most grainless static solutions do not produce a very nice bokeh (wax seems to be the exception).