I don't know about the WA lens, but what is your primary camera?
Often it is good to keep the primary & secondary camera the same
if you want to easily match the footage.... (just a note).

You can definitely use the anamorphic adapter to get full-resolution 16:9 on it.

Other than that, without an adapter, yes you'd have to crop and stretch in post.

Thank you, I wasn't aware when I first posted that Panasonic makes a 16:9 widescreen adapter for the DV series (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=ShowProduct&kw=PAAGLA7200G&Q=&O=&sku=282865)

Steve,

You seem to be one of the most active people in this Forum who has a DVC80.

As I am considering buying two new ones, instead of a single DVX100A, I would like some other comments about it.

You also declared your intention to get a DVC30 when it's released, particularly because of the longer lens, which would make your nature work easier.

But my intention is a different one: using the DVC80s for my doc projects and for renting them.

Any reliability problems you would care to comment on? What about the so talked about low light quality when compared to Sony cameras? Have you shot stuff with a Sony that was better than the one shot with the DVC80?

From what I have seen, doing a good menu setup is most important on this camera, and I would probably do that beforehand for the people renting it. Renting the cameras would be a good way to alleviate the investment issues.



Carlos

Carlos,

I had a DVX100 and liked it allot- but the allure of 24P just isn't realistic unless you're an actual filmaker or aspiring one...I'm more of a documentarian and found no real benefit to having 24P- the DVC80 was excellent for what I wanted it for......having said that- I just sold it and will likely get the DVC30 when it's available unless an HDV camera from another co. entices me enough.....we'll see!

As for reliability- there are issues with some DVC/DVX heads producing drop-outs etc and the common consensus is to buy Master Quality Pan tapes which I find appauling- the fact that someone HAS to use a certain brand so that the camera can function correctly is inexcuseable- I bought my DVC80 locally and mine DID have head problems from day one- I returned the unit to B&H and exchanged it for another one- the newer one had no issues and that's the one I kept.....it performed flawlessly with any type of MiniDV tape and that's the way it should be- so if your camera has head issues- quickly return it and try another one. As for low light- you wont find better anywhere- the Pan did better low lux video than my XL1S or GL2.....I doubt any camcorder currently available will surpass the clean images the DVC produces under low light- I was/am impressed- it would make a superb wedding camera with it's great low light abilities.

As for menu setup- I left Scene mode 1 as is from factory with all adjustments zeroed, then made additional Scene Files with more contrast and sharpness turned up a click for outside video etc.....use different scene settings for different video settings and keep track....I suggest a slightly blurred (lessen sharpening) for portrait work etc.....you'll have fun- the camera is a capable camera right out of the box......get yourself a 72mm UV filter or haze-1 filter and an extra high-capacity battery and you'll be set.......

...enjoy!!!!

(I'll be participating less in the next months as I don't have a DVC80 anymore and am eagerly awaiting new models- hopefully something HDV- until then the DVC30 has "next" camera status)

I mean it's got the same ccd as the dvx right? Does anyone know if it's the same inside only having the dvx features ie. 24p, cine-gamma, cine-matrix etc. disabled via firmware?

Would it be possible for someone with the right expertise to "flash" a dvc80 to a dvx100?

Just curious.

Unlikely - it's probably got a different circuit board etc. inside. The cost and voidiing your warranty seems not worth it, even if it could be done. Just sell the DVC80 and buy a DVX100 - great prices on new and slightly used.

I just got a Miller DS5, and tried to mount my DVC80.

The screw in the DS5 plate is too short!

It looks like it needs to be about 1/4 inch longer to mount the DVC80 to the tripod. Now it won't even reach the DVC80 threads.

I called Miller support. They were courteous and responded promptly, but were unable to resolve issue in time for my next shoot... so the tripod goes back to B/H tomorrow.

WARNING:
If you DVC80 or DVX100 on a DS5 head, check and make sure that it is mating the full length of the threaded part of the mounting screw.

<snip>

But i have to admit other than this problem the Miller solo is a great system. Great motion. Solid, simple, construction, and the carbon fiber legs are unbeliveably rigid.

Maybe Pana is at fault, and not Miller.

OK.

Tried Miller mounting plate on my TRV900.

It mounts securely... barely.

However, the Miller mounting plate only connects to the 900 by about two screw threads. Maybe 1/16".

My cheapo manfrotto mounting plate connects all the way down, maybe 1/4 inch.

The reason Miller won't connect to panny is that the panny mounting screw threads begin about 1/16 (approx) below the chassis. I expect that's the panny magnesium frame they're (rightly) so proud of.

Thanks Frank

I mounted my ex-DVX100's on a couple of Bogen heads just fine. That's wild about the Miller. I sold my larger Bogen with my DVX100s and due to my tight budget replaced it with a Bogen MDeVe that was very lightweight CF and hundreds cheaper than the Miller which if I had the money, I would have ordered...

I expect it's a one time thing.

Maybe Panasonic problem, maybe Miller problem.

Maybe somebody dropped one wrong screw in a bin somewhere in Australia two months ago. Maybe Panasonic recessed the screw threads too much.

Dunno.

After talking to Miller it's clear they will do whatever they have to to make it right.

I'm just freaking out because i'm in a time bind.

Follow up:

Miller's west coast support has identified proper screw, and given me a source to get it quickly.

Miller support is really trying to fix this. I'm impressed.

Ok I just got my DVC80. Its a lot bigger than I expected (not a problem)and I like the huge viewfinder. However I notice that something seem to be missing. Is there supposed to be a strap to attach the lens cap to the camera. Without this, one could loose very easily. One other question has anybody used 80 minute tapes with this cam and was there a problem? Thanks.

David

Hello David,
Congratulations on your new cam!

I have the 100 and 100A, not the 80, but perhaps I can offer some replies that I believe are true for the 80.

No, there is no strap provided for the lens cap. If you feel you need one you can easily get a 3rd party strap from a camera store.

Panasonic does not recommend using 80 min cassettes with the DVX100/A and may also have the same recommendation for you DVC80 (see the manual). This may seem odd since Panasonic manufactures 80 min cassettes. But the recommendation is due to the thinner tape material required to fit the tape into the mini DV cassettes. It's more prone to breakage and distortion with prolonged usage. My advice: if you really need to use an 80 min cassette be sure that it's a record-once/playback-once deal. Don't reuse it and don't put it through the rigors of complex edit cueing in a deck.

I hope this helps.

Thanks Ken. I know about all the reasons that have been advanced about not using 80 min tapes and also about using LP. However I have been using them with my TRV950 and other cams with no problems. I was just wondering if there was something about the DVC80 that would cause it to be more prone to breakage than other cams. Thanks again.

David

I am in the market for a new cam and am waffling between
the DVC80 which will do everything I currently need in a cam or a DVX100 (not DVX100a) for ~$800 more which would enable me room to grow with it's Progressive features. I know this is my decision to make but should the fact that I still use FCP 3.02 in Mac OS9 and have no plans to move to FCP 4 or OSX anytime soon have any bearing on the decision, i.e. would I even be able to work with the "P" footage on my current setup?

I am a multimedia developer using a Sony TRV8 for the last 5 yrs but have within the last couple of years been moving into corporate video production and am well past a cam upgrade methinks. I also considered a GL2 and it can be had at a good price now, but I have been my own equipment purchaser for many years now and know the economic value of spending more up front for features you don't even know you need yet than finding 1-2 yrs down the road that you could use them.

Any help would be appreciated,

Kevin

When you upgrade to a higher quality camera, it's going to be tough not to upgrade alot of other stuff. You do need FCP 4.0 to edit 24PA footage, but you could edit 24P normal footage with it. This would give you the "film look" but not true 24p DVDs. You said you're doing multimedia, so I can see how you can pass on 24p DVD or even 24p Quicktime and WMV, they all just look to good to pass on in my view.

I would say if your can swing not only the $800 difference but maybe twice (even 3x) that to include some of the other stuff you will find you need to support the DVX100 as it should be, then go for it. Between the DVC80 and GL2, you just need to weigh feature for feature and pick what will serve you best for what you do.

-Rodger

I think it depends on how soon you want to grow.
I'd get the DVC80 now, then upgrade to a HD camera in 2-3 years, when you should be able to get one for the price of the DVC80 now. Technology is advancing too fast to pay extra for something you don't need right now.

Does anyone have any DVC-80 clips posted for viewing

I have clips, but they are pretty compressed. I have nothing substantial since I've not used the dvc80 as much as I expected.

You can check out some clips at
http://www.berserkur.net/movies_main.htm

They are short, mostly of the family so might be severely boring (but it's not the shaky-cam, shoot everything kinda stuff - I took a bit of care editing the clips).

Tomorrow or friday I'm throwing together a short clip from the streets of India. I can make it larger and less compression if you'd like (make it 30-40mbs). It should be up this weekend.

I'm pleased with the camera, the color quality is good - as would be expected with a 3 chipper, but I need to really use it before I can give an educated opinion of the quality and usability.

Bob

I have some commercials I have made using the DVC80 on my website at www.karatemedia.com/video (http://www.karatemedia.com/video)

The ads shot with the DVC80 include: Marti's at Midday, Musician's Warehouse Christmas, Gardens at Eden Christmas, Musician's Warehouse Grand Opening, and Gardens at Eden Fall Specials. They are available in Quicktime 6 and RealPlayer formats. I think the Quicktime versions look better than the Realplayer ones.

Fair warning -- I am not the best cameraman; these are cheaps ads that are shot in a run-n-gun style. But it will give you some idea of the DVC80 in action.

Ok just to let you know how much i love my DVC80...


I live in Guatemala, and travel to NY, USA, just to go to BH, buy the camera and return... who can beat that ? just for the pleasure to get the camera that i want and personally test it before buy it.

Also i was cheaper that getting it online, cause i got a free ticket.

Thank you John

The commercials look great. The DVC80 seemed to have performed very well.

How were the interior shots lit? What mics were used?

Thanks Bob

George and others,

Would you care to share your favorite set-up settings with this camera? I'm still playing with them and having a hard time deciding what I like.

What looks best to you?

Steve.

Bob,

My favorite setting and the easiest to set has got to be the Fluorescent Matrix setting. It works wonderful when you're shooting under cold fluorescent lighting.

Others are the "Sparkle" pre-set on the DVX100 to punch up night scenes under dim lighting.

GV's Personal Favorite:

Detail +1
Chroma + 1
Chroma Phase -2
Master Ped -3
A. Iris -1
Skin Tone DTL Off

Bob--

Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad you liked the ads. They really are pretty much run-n-gun; I only used existing light for those shots, except for the very last shot in the "Marti's at Midday" ad, where I set up a small lamp from the owner's office because the room was so dark. That was one dark dining room: I made the mistake of not paying close enough attention to the room when I first scouted it: it seemed well-lit the day I visited, but I didn't notice that 90% of that light was from the very bright day that was shining through the large windows across the front of the restaurant.

When I returned the day of the shoot, it was an incredibly overcast day and the dining room had gone from vibrant to grey. Then I realized there was only one sad little ceiling light in the main room that barely helped at all. Even the head-cook-cum-amatuer-photographer quizzed me about what I was going to do if the footage came out bad because of the poor light.

Ultimately, though, the DVC80 did pretty good in that situation; I don't even think I ever used the gain at all during the shoot. Up until that point, it had been a "policy" of mine that because of my low rates (and being a one-man crew) that I only used existing lighting. After shooting that ad, though, I decided to splurge on some work lights to at least help compensate for situations like that.

As for mics, if the speaker is on camera (as in the last shot of the Marti's at Midday ad or in the Musician's Warehouse Christmas ad), they are wearing a Sony ECM-44B lavalier mic. If they are off camera, they are probably using an Audio Technica Midnight Blues 4000C hand-held condenser mic -- that's a pretty cheap ($80, I think) condenser; not the best, but it gets the job done. The ECM-44B is a relatively inexpensive, entry-level lavalier as well; I would like to upgrade that one by the end of the year.

Recently, I purchased a Rode NT1-A large condenser mic for my own voiceovers (done in my office), and I will probably soon upgrade the 4000C handheld to an AKG D230 for remote recordings where the owner does an off-cam voiceover (I haven't yet decided on the mic I want, but thanks to Bryan Beasleigh's help, I'm leaning towards the D230).


Steve --

I haven't really had a chance to really get into the scene file settings, except for the flourescent setting. I agree with George that that is a great setting -- the first time I tried to use it was for the Musician's Warehouse Grand Opening spot. Of course, I screwed something up (I think I forgot to choose "save" before pressing "menu") and ended up with that wonderful flourescent green throughout all my footage. It was easily fixed in Premiere, but the next time I shot inside that store I made *sure* that the scene file was set correctly and I think the video turned out great.

Anyway, after reading some of your earlier posts re: using scene file settings, I've started experimenting with them when possible. I just wish that somebody would print an article/book/whatever that delved *deep* into using DVC80 scene file settings, with specific examples and some recommended settings. I like to experiment, but sometimes I like to have a guide to follow as well...

John,

Nice spots! I haven't used the flourescent setting yet, as I've not shot under those kind lights...but probably will. I'll have to check it out.

Yes, it would be nice if there was some kind of guide to all those settings.

Thanks,

Steve.

John,

Thanks again for sharing your experience and mic info. Is this the greatest forum or what? We can all save each other so much agrivation, not to mention $$$$.

Once again, I thought that your spots were great. You say "Run & Gun". However, we all see spots everyday that can't hold a candle to your work. Please give yourself more credit.

PS: Raise your prices....you deserve it. Besides, one very important lesson that I learned many years ago (I am probably a heck of a lot older than you) is.... If you charge very little, people think that you are worth very little. And when you try to be a good guy and give someone, even someone that you know, a break....they invariably can't wait to tell everyone what a great price they got. "Now try to get a higher price!"

Thank you John
Bob

John,

Sorry, forgot to ask...Do you know if the DVC80 is suitable for legal deposition work. I understand that it has military time code only. I wonder if that would sync with court reporters.

If you ever hear about anything like that, please email me at bobefitz@comcast.net

Bob

Bob,

The DVC-80 can sync up with reporter if he/she can do military time. For regular time syncing up with a reporter the new dvc-30 is much better since it can actually burn regular time/date on the tape. It also has that nightshot/infrared feature that can come in handy in legal work. I have, however, used my DVC80 for doing Independent Medical Examinations IMEs, and for that it works fine.

George,

Thanks for the court reporter sync info.

I really thought it would be easy to find a new camera. but it seems that the mfgrs put limits on each model. (you don't get all the features unless you pay all the marbles!)

Other than the time code issue...do you feel that the DVC30 has enough to offer over the DVC80 to make it worth the difference.

That's another thing that puzzles me. B&H which I like very much, has the 80 at a list price about $500 more than the 30, but prices the thirty avove the 80.

I must be missing something.

Bob

Bob,
I don't know if the following from another thread in this category (on this forum) answers your question or not about the price of the DVC-30 at B&H:

>Just noticed that B&H went up $50.00 on the DVC30 from their advertised price and they haven't even got it in stock yet.<

Keeping up with equipment prices is almost like trying to keep up with the stock market. One almost needs a "ticket tape" banner with current prices at the bottom of the CRT screen. Humm, that may not be a bad idea. Naw, that's a terrible idea.

Nick

Hi Nick,

I think that we should just have our pay checks direct deposited to B&H and every now and then they could mail us a new toy.

I used to think that boating was a money pit. Oh well!

Thanks to the forum...at least there are some common sense answers to be had.

Thanks nick

Bob

Bob, thank you yet again for the kind words. As for what I charge, I've gone into it a bit in the Business forum, but basically it comes down to the fact that the cable company's in-house team charges $500 for a spot, and can offer the client a few more options in terms of professional voice-over talent, background music, etc. Those are options I can't offer (at least with such variety), so all other aspects being equal, $300 seems like a reasonable price. And the best indie production team in town only charges $600 for local businesses and I think they're stuff is "national" quality.

As for DVC80 vs 30 -- it depends on what your primary use is. For me, the 80's native (and unobtrusive) XLR inputs and 48v phantom power were a big selling point. If you are considering taping depositions, read Paul Tauger's article on it: http://www.dvinfo.net/articles/business/tauger1.php if you haven't already.

The interesting thing he states in that article is: "A note about digital cameras: I don't like them for depositions..."

The DVC30 does seems to have some features that are suited for legal work (infrared, etc). And the 80 has features that are probably better suited for television work. As for the price difference, it's probably best for places like B&H to keep the expected price high until they actually have the camera in hand. No one wants to promise a price they can't deliver, but it always looks great when you can surprise everybody with a huge price drop. After seeing it priced at $2200 for so long, it'll be that much more attractive when it gets released with, say, a $1900 B&H street price.

Anybody,

I have my heart set on the DVC80 and before purchasing I decided to download the user manual. So this morning at about 7AM I did just that and read it from cover to cover.

At first reading (without camcorder in hand) the menu structure seems to be overwhelming.

Please say it isn't so.

Thank you in advance for any input.

Bob,

I've had mine about 2 weeks now and have no trouble getting around the menu. In fact, I found it much easier than most consumer type cameras, particularly one I've got that is of the "palm" variety, which explains the difficulty, I suppose. On the DVC80, all you do is hit the "menu" button and the options pop up, you change what you want, and hit the menu button again. I read the manual online as well before purchasing, and was overwhelmed as well, but it wasn't that bad when I had the cam.

Good luck,

Steve.

Hello Steve,

That is just what I was hoping to hear. I have been researching myself silly to be as sure as possible that I buy the right cam. This will be my first Pro cam and I know how expensive a purchasing mistake can be.

You have been very hlpful and it is appreciated.

Best to you

Bob

Steve,

Did you buy new or used?

It seems as though everyone who is selling their camcorder has used it for under 10 hours and is selling in order to upgrade.

Why would you have a need to upgrade a camcorder that isn't being used???

My dad used to say, "Nomatter how dumb the dealer looks...Cut the cards."

Bob

Bob,

I got it new. I'm not sure about the upgrading thing. Perhaps everyone keeps wanting the latest and greatest. 3 years ago I got a Canopus DVRapter card and Premiere 6.0. Now I got Premiere Pro and the $400 Canopus card won't work (no should it, as PP does everything and more as far as real time preview that it did). Everyone I've talked to has said, "well duh, it's been 3 whole years!" Perhaps that's how most deal with cameras as well.

Steve.

Setting aside the Cine capabilites of the Panny cams, how do users compare these to models? The DVC80 looks like the best bang for the buck of any 1/3" cam right now. $2100 ready to shoot. The DVC30 has lower size and weight, plus the addition of the IR night shooting and a longer lens. But, it has the smaller 1/4" sensors. And, the DVC30 is quite a bit more money by the time the XLR audio adapter is added.

I was thinking of one of these cameras as an upgrade to my DV852. I really want the XLR audio, and a tape mechanism that loads while the camera is on the tripod. Zebra patterns and color bars would be helpful too. I like manual controls too. Also, access to the broader range of accessories like filters, wide/tele adapters, on-camera lights, zoom controller, batteries, matte boxes etc.

I'm shooting general family stuff, some ~10 short productions I've written, and lately some stringer/ENG efforts (with the help of my Bearcat police scanner).

Right now, I'm sort of leaning toward the DVC30 because of the extra reach on the long end and its smaller size for use on a monopod (ENG run & gun style). But I wonder how important the larger 1/3" sensor really is? The audio of the DVC80 looks more complete too.

Thanks for any thoughts and comments.

Dan

I shoot with the DVC80, and although I have not used the DVC30, I would say that for my work I would prefer the DVC80.

The 80 has phantom power XLR inputs; the 30 does not. If XLRs are important to you, then the 80 is the best bet (although, as you said, you can get an adaptor for the 30). I think the audio on the DVC80 is great.

Personally, I don't need night vision and the 10x zoom of the dvc80 is fine for my work. If you are doing late-night, scanner-stalking ENG work, then you might need both the night vision and longer zoom.

You can see some of the commercials I have shot with the DVC80 at my website at www.karatemedia.com/video (http://www.karatemedia.com/video) -- Marti's at Midday, Musician's Warehouse Christmas, and Gardens at Eden Christmas are some of the ads shot with the DVC80.

I also have some excerpts from a very quickly done and pointless silent short at www.karatemedia.com/video/dvc80.html (http://www.karatemedia.com/video/dvc80.html). I have some snow day footage I'm going to add at some point as well.

None of this stuff is great, but it will give you an idea of the DVC80 in action. The commercials were shot using only existing, ambient light. The "short" was lit in some scenes with work lights. Nothing fancy at all. The audio in the ads was recorded on the DVC80 as well.

Hi people. Just got the cam and just got a Tiffen 72 mm UV filter. I feel stupid at the moment, but what's the proper way to attach this filter? It doesn't seem to screw in the lens hood. I can get it to stay in place, but even a small bump while turned lens down causes it to fall out. What am I doing wrong?

thanks

Smack me in the face guys......on my third look my brain finally processed that I have a 77mm filter for a 72mm lens!
Pack it up!

In my event videography business, I have relied on a 3-year-old PV-DV100 Palmcorder as a backup (and sometimes second) camera. Well, it died last week; I turned it on at a wedding rehearsal and to my dismay everything was cast in shades of yellow and green, or blue, depending on White Balance setting. (It still records audio perfectly.) Panasonic wants AT LEAST $260 and 20 business days to fix it (if it can even be salvaged). Being short on both time and money, I'm looking for a comparable consumer camcorder in the $500 range. Any suggestions? I need the following requirements:

* External mic input
* Analog input & pass-through
* Headphone jack
* Side- or top-loading tape door
* Manual zoom and shutter controls

Pricewise, the Canon Optura 20 is looking good at $480 (B&H). I can be fully outfitted with camera, battery, ND and UV filters for $600. I like the Sony look, but those are bottom-loading cameras which aren't practical when mounted on a tripod, as I'd need it to be.

(I'd REALLY like to go for broke and snatch up another DVC80 for $2100, but this camera would also be for personal use, and my wife doesn't want to lug around a camcorder that big which devours batteries so quickly.)

I once heard that even if one camera is pro and the other is consumer that videographers should always use the same brand of camera on a shoot. Is there anything to that? Personally, I can tell the difference between Panasonic and Sony consumer cams. Each has its strengths and weaknesses.

Any opinions?

If you are a professional and are charging good money (over $900) then you really should have a decent back up camera. Another dvc80 is a no brainer. Otherwise I have found the Canon Gl1 to match up pretty well with the Panny.

... I need some bookings beyond September, as I've already exceeded my equipment budget for 2004. If my 2005 calendar starts filling up this fall like 2004's did last year, I'll get another DVC80 -- I wouldn't mind a used one -- and then get my wife a $300 point-n-shooter. Manual controls are a waste of money for her.

*fingers crossed*

Tim --

re: mixing cameras -- A friend of mine was in town recently with a small crew, shooting a concert for a DVD. The people he works with are professionals and they were using a mix of cameras: my friend had his PD150, another had a XL1s, there was a "shoulder-brick" production-type camera of unknown brand (I don't believe it was Sony or Canon), and supposedly one more cam which I never saw. I don't know what sort of post they will do to the video, but they definitely had no problems mixing brands, for what that's worth.

That said, what about the Panny DV953? It's about twice what you want to spend, though...

Also, on some of your requirements: Do you really need external mic capability and analog pass-through? Re: the mic, will this cam be responsible for picking up audio that the DVC80 can't? Or can you just mix in the audio from the 80 during post? Just trying to think of ways to widen your options in your price range...

does the DVC80 do frame mode?