Joel, Jim and all, let me ask you a question. If you were going for this device and money was no object...within of course reason...what would you do or build with what components, I mean if you had the choice of any lens and system set up, SD Achromat or HD for the shot I described. What I'm trying to figure is if Taylor has specific pieces that the rest of us don't have in addition to the Redrock box or if he's just figured out to manipulate everything for repetitive takes. I thought I was done with this but the issues really got me scratching my head all the way home from the studio.
Jonathan


Hy Jonathan, when I was working with Guy (the tech guru at ZGC) setting up our first generation Mini 35, we were apparently the first people seriously pursuing the Nikon option.

I had rented the system for a couple of projects and tested it with Zeiss Super Speeds and Cooke primes so I had a lot of test footage and finished work for comparison. I bought the Mini 35 with both the PL mount and Nikon option but never used the PL.

My opinion and Guy agreed was that the inherent resolution didn't benefit from the $18,000 cine lens versus the $700 still lens.

Gearing for follow focus and breathing were the big differences and once Mizell and I found someone to gear our Nikons individually that problem was solved and breathing was never a production problem.

So, given the affordability of the M2, and the fact that they're now shipping a follow focus with an adjustable set of rings that you can gear your Still glass with it's a no brainer for me. The best glass available that's not cine are Nikon AIS primes. These are the solid, all metal build, smooth manual focus (smooth like cine smooth) lenses. as Joel mentioned, the 35mm 1.4, 50mm 1.2 and 85mm 1.4 are the lenses to get. The 85mm is a big 72mm wide chunk of glass that looks like a cine prime at the end of your camera, and is probably the nicest short tele out there. I also added the 24mm 2.0 and the 135mm 2.0.

This along with the Redrock FF and gears would give you a really affordable high end imaging setup.

I'm just starting my research into the M2 (I was about to order it a couple of days ago and then wanted to make sure that any issues being discussed here were not real issues). Anyway, because of that I can't really speak to the M2 particulars although I would be very interested in Zoerk/Nikon relay option instead of the Fuji for length and quality issues.

I've got to make a decision fast...we're going into principle p. on our new film in just over a month and given the less than stellar results with the Mini 35 and HD, I'm hoping that the M2...long and upside down as it is, will be the solution.

I've made the decision to get more involved with the camera aspects of the company, something for which I have historically relied on people like veteran cameraman Mike Pellagatti, a guy that if you ever have the opportunity to work with, take it because he's one of the most knowlegable and personally wonderful guys in the business. You won't regret a minute of your decision.

That being said, it's funny that you would select those lenses. I've been offered the 35 and 85mm already having the 50mm, each recommended by you and other wonderful people here on Chris' forum, to use as long as I needed while I sort out the perfect set up for the shooting we do here. I've been amazed at the number of e-mails sent to me by people on this board and dvxuser who have offered their help off-line so as not to crowd the pipeline here on-line. Combined with the discussion I had with Taylor last evening where he agreed to come by and discuss what he's done with the Redrock system, I might finally be able to put my arms around this issue and get a set up that gives me the results we need here for the cameras positioned in the color commentators' booth. Those shots need specific glass because they're chromaed (is that a word?) and I need to be able to isolate each of the three commentators on their own, individual camera with a fourth wide on the group for a coll shot. For the Decedmber, 2005 National, we used three different cameras inicluding the JVC 100HD which I finally standardised on purchasing 5 more from EVS to add to the one we already had in January. We also used the stock JVC/Fujinon lens that came with the cameras and I have to tell you it really did a decent job when it came time to drop out the green screen and insert the background. The screen just had to be lit right which Mike did with aplomb. But it could be better and that's why I'm looking for the best setup and hoping everyone here can help me which you already have immensely.

Well then it must be me and my camera guys because we couldn't get it to hold focus at all when we reassembled the unit.

I hate to ask the obvious questions, but I'm a tech support kinda guy...could you have auto focus on or something else obvious but easy to overlook?

First off, as a producer and not a camera operator or audio tech or DP or any of the things that take real brains to master, nothing with me could ever be a bad, stupid or obvious question. Just figure I overlooked the obvious and you'll be on fairly safe ground. But thankfully this time no, no autofocus. I'm anxious to see what Taylor has up his sleeve because I'm at wit's end trying to figure out how Redrock had such a rock-solid (pun definitely intended) unit that couldn't be knocked out of focus by the "ham-hands" like me grabbing at the camera for 4-days straight at NAB and I can't replicate that solidity...and neither can some fairly smart camera operators and one really smart physicist acquaintence whose field of study iuncludes, as best I can recall, optical eschemia and achromatic aberration and whose thesis was on the Petzval condition (notes I took when he showed up with his brother, a camera operator at Warners).

And where the heck is Sauk Rapids?

Guys,
There's nothing secretive about how the JVC was setup at NAB. Basically you set the focus and zoom on the fujinon. Then place the achromat (without any 72-82mm stepup/stepdown ring) between the camera and the M2. Then push the JVC up against the achromat until it has wedged the achromat. Because the part of the lens that's touching the achromat (plastic ring outside of the glass but inside the hood) rotates as it's focused, it will cause the lens focus ring to become unmoveable. The zoom had a small piece (about 1" square) of gaffer tape on it. This is why it never moved during the entire show. No biggie!

Also, Brian Valente tells me this information is posted on the Redrock Forums.

We're going to be releasing an addon part soon that works on all cameras and will keep the zoom/focus rings on the camera from moving. (and won't be a hack) :)

I hope this helps!


*** EDIT ***
Regarding the Nikon relay. Even if it worked well, (I've built this and it was much worse than the fujinon) after adding the Nikon mount etc, you're only really talking about losing a little less than 4 inches of length. Plus, with the Nikon relay, you can't zoom. So if you need to tweak the image focal length, you can't. Also, with the fujinon locked down on the sweet part of the fujinon lens, there's no chromatic abberations.

My JVCHD100U has a fujinon lens on it. ;)

Happy shooting!

And where the heck is Sauk Rapids?

central MN, attached to St. Cloud.

This post will be deleted. An error occured.

Taylor Wigton
DP, Los Angeles

guys - sorry I'm late to the game here. I am accustomed to product support threads over at the redrock site.

For HD100/M2 owners, the lockdown setup is posted (and has been for some time) in the customer support forums under "HD100".


Thanks

Brian

Apologies folks. Been in Canada for awile and have not been in touch with Redrock, and was not aware that they were trying to contact me to collaborate on a DVD that would contain various tips and tricks that would help lockdown the M2 to whatever camera system you are using. Be in touch soon.

All the best,

Taylor Wigton
DP, Los Angeles

Welcome back Taylor! Hope your trip was succesful!

As you know, we've got a "Tips & Tricks" section of our new Training DVD. Now that you've had some more time working with the M2 and the different cameras, I'm sure you've come up with a few!

Be in touch soon!

Thanks to all of you for the help and especially Taylor. I had the chance to see Taylor work the magic in Canada last week and I have to tell you, the three of you, I guess Taylor, Brian and James, really have your stuff together. Helping each other to provide the Board with the technology that you do is what independent filmmaking is all about. When financial resources are thin, it's the team that works and I for one appreciate all that you all do. I remember a couple of months ago when I got literally hundreds of e-mails and messages thaking me for offering one or two of my cameras to independents in far away places who were having difficulties with theirs and JVC. That was nothing compared to the amount of work you all put in daily to make something like the Redrock affordable. The Redrock is a great idea and I didn't realize the work that went into making complex opicals financially available to the independent market. I'll be glad when the new ones come out that don't require "The Touch" as Taylor puts it. When you get there, alot of people will be very happy. But for now, if fiddling with the parts is what it takes to get the shot, at least with the Redrock team we have a shot to get...affordable.

We are still in the test phase. normally I start at the top and work my way down. Out first test was a 650mm to 1300mm. This lense was such a monster I couldn't look through the view finder and reach the focus ring at the same time, it was that long. Not about M2 but any lens bigger than 300mm is going to be hard to hold steady. We took a 500mm folded lens to PIR raceway to catch Champ car on the back straights. At 180 mph these cars are flying in right at you. We picked a point to focus and let the cars run through the frame. The results were awesome. Using the Sony Z1 I am pleased so far with what I have seen. The application we reallty want is doing interviews. Unable to back up a quarter mile I want to get a good DOF when we are talking to a subject. Choices like 135mm or 70-210mm has had good results and yes we look for fast lenses and run (lens) wide open using the camera to set our stops. I will be happy to share more test in the next few months. Next is Rodeo bull riding with a 300mm following wild bulls should prove challenging. THX Mark

You might want to take a look at my adapter. The difference is that my adapter uses 2 1/4 x 2 1/4 groundglass with an active size of 2 1/4 x 1 5/8. I also have a free DVD available to show you what can be done with the adapter. No batteries no motor, no vibrator.. for further info and photos please check www.freewebs.com/wvargas/

My adapter uses Mamiya 645 lenses...

that looks neat winston... good price too...

You might want to take a look at my adapter. The difference is that my adapter uses 2 1/4 x 2 1/4 groundglass with an active size of 2 1/4 x 1 5/8. I also have a free DVD available to show you what can be done with the adapter. No batteries no motor, no vibrator.. for further info and photos please check www.freewebs.com/wvargas/

My adapter uses Mamiya 645 lenses...

Very interesting project Winston. But why a 70mm adapter? It's not that it will yield any more resolution. Yes, grain may be slightly less, but if you are using HD, it's already clean enough, too clean actually, at least in my opinion. But on a blow up, it wouldn't make that much of a difference because what really matters is the resolution and size of the camera's CCD. So did you do a 70mm adapter because of the even shorter DOF? I would think it would be extremely hard to work with such adapter on a feature if you don't have a real focus puller with you. It’s already hard with wide-open 35mm lenses if you are a one-man camera crew, but for each his own.
By the way, how's grain with the fixed GG?
Nevertheless, great job with the adapter. It looks very good. Can we see same footage or frames?

Boy, I know it's been a while since I've been here but since starting my own biz it's been 18 hour days. Listen, I have a question. At NAB I saw what I thought was the answer to my problems. At the JVC booth there was a Red Rock M2 display that had this converter that not only allowed me to use prime lenses but gave me great depth of field as well. When I talked to the RedRock people they told me that's the beauty of the Red Rock...great DOF. So I get one and put it on and NOTHING. I mean my primes fit but the depth of field is just like it always was...long and crystal clear. Has anyone else had this problem? I was promised that the M2 wuold give me film-like DOF but it doesn't. Anyone?



Please take a look at the 70mm adapter that I make for the DVX100 and other cameras. Check out this website and pass the word along.

www.freewebs.com/wvargas/

I will have some more information on DOF that you might find useful. You'l find detailed photos on the adapter. I use medium format lenses while everybody else is using 35mm.

Ditto. Thanks for the heads-up. I'll check over there. Now it's back to the dungeon for me!


Please check out my website where you'll see my adapter plus info on DOF.
www.freewebs.com/wvargas/ I use medium format lenses and my groundglass is twice the size of a 35mm groundglass. I am now posting an article about the misconceptions of D.O.F. This might help.

Winston

Winston, i couldn't find any footage from Your adapter. Just one question without seeing one. Have You edge falloff problems with Your adapter?

The footage looks fantabulous, I've seen it. Good subject matter well shot as well.

Hi everyone:
Just finishing a series of spots for a large tire dealer here in the northwest we use the M2 with a 50mm. our stop was as open as we could get given lighting. As the gaffer on this project I lit for an F/2.8 we were exactly 9 feet from the talent sliding in three feet as he delivered the line. We had great success with M2. The Dp I work with has many ideas how to improve the M2. He feels that the speed of the ground glass should be faster, also he is looking into have a balanced glass piece custom made by Edmonds Scientific and a more solid mounting set up. We saw some issue as the battery wore down so switching to the power supply was a good thing. Our super cute assistant camera woman did a great job of pulling focus with the focus adapter. It gives an easy control feel to the lens and using the marks on the wheel she never buzzed the shot. M2 takes some getting used to, it is a tool that in the right hands can change the intire look of your project. Don't rush the process and then complain. Concentrate on what you are trying to acheieve. Some apps will be difficult to do, I tried to follow bull riders with a 1000mm, once I could grasp the focus it was awesome but it took time. We have even gone as far to mount the entire rig upside down to elimanate the veiwing issues. There are many creative people out here....are you one of them. THX Mt.Park Studios

Winston,
Really enjoyed your Miles site!
Jon