I'm having a problem copying a 4gb "no name" partition to a new folder on the drive. It's taking like 20 minutes. System Info shows it's in the USB High-Speed bus on the front of the mac. But this is really slow. G5 Dual w/2 Gigs RAM. I'm copying the content and txt to simply a new folder on my HD.

Did a search and found nothing. Nothing in Panny's book either (to my previous replier in Australia!! ha!)

Thanks in advance...

Hi:

Same story here, 8GB cards are taking 45-48 minutes to load off of the P2 store into all of my Macs. I am too paranoid to turn of the verification function but why in the heck can I copy an 8GB p2 card from a hard drive to another hard drive in like, 6 minutes per card, yet coming off of the P2 Store, it takes forever?

Same thing, the P2 cards inserted into my PB G4 PCMCIA slot copy in 6-8 minutes so why is the P2 Store so glacially slow?

Frustrated!

Dan

This may be a dumb question, but are you using a USB 1 cable with the P2 Store's USB 2 interface? That would slow things down, but I can't imagine it would turn six minutes into forty five...

I'll try a cable that says USB2.0. I shoot 2GB cards all day long on a Nikon D2X for my still end of the business and we've never had a card take longer than 3 min. to download. So if you figure 6 min. for a 4 gig...that's what we're expecting. I'll try another cable just to see. One of my producer/editors is using the camera for a independent feature right now so it's hard for me to test unless I have them do it.

We'll check cables first...

Thanks!

How can you tell? We are using LaCie cables from our other drives... Just curious.

I started using Apple Mac's in the 80s. I moved to PCs when Apples technology stagnated. I bought a macbook pro in February. nice product. Good to see Apple back in form again.

I did notice that all my very fast USB 2 PC drives operate as if they are just slightly faster than USB 1 on the Macbook Pro. Apple should be embarrased by their USB 2 performance on Macbook Pros. I don't have the exact figures, but I'd have to say perhaps 20 mbit/second rather than any thing close to 480 mbit spec. I'm left with converting all my USB drives to Firewire - which works well on the Mac. Not sure I'm going to do that.

I'm also very interested in the P2 HVX200 issue, since DV ProHD is such an attractive editing and capture format. Will need a firewire P2 card reader.

How can you tell? We are using LaCie cables from our other drives... Just curious.

The connectors look identical, so you would want to find a cables that says on it that it's USB 2. You could always just buy a new cable to be sure...

What we found from more testing...import straight from P2 Store to FCP. Around 2 min. for a 4 gig card. Then, bu the import from the scratch disk. EVERYONE I've talked to that tries to drag from P2 Store to a new folder for each cards partition is experiencing SLOW 20 minute times for a 4 gig card. Works on a PC much faster, but not on a MAC! So, import with FCP and then BU the scratch.

PLEASE let me know if anything else comes up.

Hi all:

USB 2 cables, huh? I never even knew such a thing existed. Chalk it up to ignorance and for having been a Machead for so long. I knew that USB 1.1 and 2.0 were compatible so I never even thought that there was such a thing as separate cables for both.

Will pickup a USB 2.0 cable from Frys and will try it again and will report back on the results.

If I could get the P2 Store to download onto a hard drive as fast as the P2 cards into the G4 PB, it would rekindle my love affair with the P2 Store. Other than it being so damned slow to offload, I really like the P2 Store.

Best,

Dan

Dan-

Try what I mentioned in the earlier reply. I don't believe there's a cable issue going on. Mine shows that it's on High Speed USB. It's more like an MS-DOS to Mac Format think between drives. Just yet another thought. Seriously, it's faster straight into FCP.

I think it is more than a cable, the system should be a USB 2 system. USB 1 is slow. Sorry,

Jan

Hi all:

USB 2 cables, huh? I never even knew such a thing existed. Chalk it up to ignorance and for having been a Machead for so long. I knew that USB 1.1 and 2.0 were compatible so I never even thought that there was such a thing as separate cables for both.

Will pickup a USB 2.0 cable from Frys and will try it again and will report back on the results.

If I could get the P2 Store to download onto a hard drive as fast as the P2 cards into the G4 PB, it would rekindle my love affair with the P2 Store. Other than it being so damned slow to offload, I really like the P2 Store.

Best,

Dan

Jan-

Please look over this thread. It seems that many of us are encountering a problem simply copying from P2 Store to the hard drive. I have an editor testing out the direct into FCP as I'm typing this and will confirm that back shortly.

Tom

Never heard of a USB 2 specific cable, maybe it's a marketing ploy. I use old cables with USB 2 ports and I get a big speed increase. This site may help with any problems/questions. http://www.everythingusb.com/usb2/faq.htm

Jan-

Please look over this thread. It seems that many of us are encountering a problem simply copying from P2 Store to the hard drive. I have an editor testing out the direct into FCP as I'm typing this and will confirm that back shortly.

Tom

Tom I am not arguing that the USB 2 is faster than Firewire on a MAC. It clearly isn't. What I am saying is that the USB1 is vastly slower than USB2 and that also can impact the time required for the transfer. So if you check to see if your MAC is USB1 or USB2 that may explain why it is so slow. If the P2 store had firewire that would be great, but it does not.

Best,

Jan

tom, i think that this was covered in the cow thread that you referred to earlier, did you read the link that barry posted: http://www.barefeats.com/usb2.html

the mac implementation of usb 2 is apparently inferior, and not up to usb 2 specs... i'm speculating that a poorly written usb 2 driver might account for the speed differences you are seeing, when importing the files using different methods.

why would panasonic be responsible for that?

Tom,

I think what you might be experiencing is a known issue on the MainBoard of the G5 itself:

Go into your System Profiler and look at the USB tab info. If you see "unsupported device" or "unknown device" in the USB chain this could be causing your problem.

For troubleshooting, disconnect all your USB devices with exception to the Apple keyboard and mouse, then look at the USB device info. Then connect the P2 Store and look at the info again. If other devices pop up outside of those 3 devices (kybd, mouse, P2 Store) then there's a hardware issue at fault.

In certain cases, this issue has been cleared up by manually flashing the PRAM, boot ROM and a few other things that any Mac certified tech could do for you - if you don't know how to do this yourself.

Hope this helps.

tom, i think that this was covered in the cow thread that you referred to earlier, did you read the link that barry posted: http://www.barefeats.com/usb2.html

This article has nothing to do with a P2 Store being connected. I don't see any hard drives having drastically different times when hooked-up the same.

the mac implementation of usb 2 is apparently inferior, and not up to usb 2 specs... i'm speculating that a poorly written usb 2 driver might account for the speed differences you are seeing, when importing the files using different methods.

Seems like it from everything we've experienced so far. But if it's so inferior how come it imports into FCP fine and doesn't copy to a local drive?

why would panasonic be responsible for that?

I've never said Panasonic is responsible for this! I'm just trying to identify for the Mac users out there the best workflows.

I'm very used to copying 10-100's of gigs a day on Macs for post and then archive. I have a great crew who does this day in and day out while I'm shooting. We've ALWAYS copied from the source card/drive (in this case the P2 drive) to a local or firewire drive for back-up. Then we bring those files into post, Photoshop/Aperture/Bibble for stills and FCP and AVID for video/film.

There is no "clear cut" post I've found or searched that gives a PROVEN direction for P2 Store and importing into the Mac from either Apple or Panasonic. Again, I'm not blaming either of these companies, I trust their products. But, WE are the end users that discover the hiccups! Even Apple's white paper is vague on this issue. The point is that we can check our shots in camera, download to a P2 store and come back and edit. If it takes longer to import than the length of the source, there's no point to the savings in time.

THE RESULTS:
1 straight 10 min clip shot at 720P 24pn recorded to 4 gig P2 card
Card copied to P2 store (approx. 4 min.)
P2 store connected to G5 USB 2.0.
P2 "no name" Imported straight into FCP. TIME 5 Min. 39 Sec.
THIS IS GREAT AND ACCEPTABLE

However, same P2 "no name" copied to a new folder on G5 24 Min.

SAME USB Cable, SAME EVERYTHING!

This is the issue. Not saying anyone's to blame, just want to work it out. You would conclude that importing into FCP would actually take longer if the program has to add a wrapper. Not the case here.

So, I would suggest: Import straight into FCP and then create your back-up from the scratch.

None of us can figure why it's SO different in time! That's all...

Thanks everyone...and especially Panasonic for a cool way to work! We are also testing a full version of HD Logger right now too and will report back.

We are also testing a full version of HD Logger right now too and will report back.

Are you referring to "HD LOG" from Imagine Products, or something else? If it's the I.P. software, I'm very interested in your feedback on that.

Originally Posted by Dan Euritt
tom, i think that this was covered in the cow thread that you referred to earlier, did you read the link that barry posted: http://www.barefeats.com/usb2.html

This article has nothing to do with a P2 Store being connected. I don't see any hard drives having drastically different times when hooked-up the same.

it doesn't matter whether it's a hard drive or a p2 store... how would a usb port know one from the other??

alex just told you and dan brockett the same thing... there is a usb 2.0 issue with the mac platform, and you need to resolve that before you ask jan to look over this thread.

i have heard a number of mac people complain about usb interfaces, and until now, i never understood why... usb rocks on a pc, and it's the preferred interface for external hard drives.

Dan-

Seriously, look at the test results and AGAIN, I have not pointed a finger at Jan or Panasonic, the P2 Store imports fine DIRECTLY into FCP.

The exact same file copied via USB2.0 takes 4-5 times longer. That's the issue. Nothing was changed. Same cable, same connection, same computer.

Obviously, you like your set-up on a PC better than the MAC. That's what works for you. That's cool. Don't worry about this post if you're not on a MAC or using a P2 Store.

I just think there should be an explanation for the serious speed difference.

Thanks for your input and feedback Dan.

Tom

Are you referring to "HD LOG" from Imagine Products, or something else? If it's the I.P. software, I'm very interested in your feedback on that.

Yes Robert...

We are working on some scenarios with HD Log from Imagine. We paid for the Gold Version and are running through our work flow scenerio. Just trying to decide what that is because of the P2 to Mac issue right now.

Thanks and stand by. Should know more by Sunday in great detail. Shooting a training piece, a commercial and an independent feature ALL with the P2 HVX200 as we speak.

Tom

We use USB external drives and USB card readers. The card reader transfer performance with Windows is 10 times faster than using Mac OS X. If I were the USB manager at Apple I'd be worried.

Since Apple now supports dual boot on Intel hardware, perhaps a way around this is to load up Windows, transfer the data files and go back to Apple OS X.

If Windows on Apple Intel hardware USB ports ran 10 times faster than Apple Intel running Mac OS X it would solve the P2 Store transfer problem.

I sincerely would love to see Apple fix their poor USB 2 implementation. I can't buy a P2 Store and wait 40 minutes for an Apple transfer when it would take 4 minutes using Windows. Come on Apple! I love you guys, just fix the USB 2 so we can get on with FCP on Apple Mac + P2 Store. :-)

The P2 Store will import just fine on a G5 and G4 notebook directly into Final Cut using USB 2.0. Times are very similar to simply copying on a PC. However, you are now immediately editing! It's great.

The whole problem arose when we were just trying to copy the files from P2 Store to the desktop. That is where there is over a 5X speed difference. 25 min. vs. 5 min. 25 min. to copy to the desktop or a simple 5 min. import straight into Final Cut. This was for a single 4 GB card.

Our work flow was always to copy, back up and then import. Now, it looks like you have to just import and then back up the media. BTW, it'll now have a QuickTime wrapper on it from the import. That's fine for us. Does anyone know if the wrapper affects any of the other Metadata that we are not seeing in FCP.

Alex, someone in software with Apple can make the hardware work great. But then again, I think one might read into that-Apple wants you to use their software. No problem for us, it's great anyway...

Tom, thanks for clarifying that. Good to know that the pair work well together using FCP. My experience has been that USB 2 is very slow on the Apple MacBook pro - the only Apple we currently own.

I'm excited about the P2 work flow. Thanks for sharing your experience.

Hi all:

All three of the Macs I am using to transfer the P2 Store to are quite new (last gen PB G4 1.67GHz, Dual Core 2.3 GHz G5 and a brand new iMac) so all have usb 2.0 ports only.

I tried the USB 2.0 labeled cable and it made no difference in transfer times.

Transfering directly into FCP is not an option when you are editing in AVID.

Anyone have any other solutions to speed up this process?

Dan

Dan-

This is exactly why we are on Final Cut Pro. We own the latest greatest AVID as well, but it just doesn't seem to be supported on an Apple by AVID now that Final Cut Pro is as popular as it is.

I'd check with AVID and see what they say about supporting an import/capture for P2. I'm not sure which AVID you're using but doesn't that add a QT wrapper too?

This exact issue is why we decided to by FCP Studio vs. paying AVID for another upgrade!

Take care...

Tom

Dan-

The other work around that I'm sure you're aware of is to take the P2 in the PB via the PC slot and copy to a new folder. Then, move the media over Gig Ethernet to the desktop. We've done that, it's just not as easy to download to the notebook when I'm in a helicopter or boat!

Tom

regarding Avid's P2 implementation, I recall reading that Media Composer Software 2.7.x will support direct P2 ingest, so they say on the Avid website threads. Perhaps that will help me as well, since my ingest workflow is spotty at best.


I too am flummoxed at how long the P2 Store takes to x-fer. Often the transfer will be unsuccessful. Quite a problem, really. Perhaps the direct ingest will negate the requirement to transfer to the hard drive then into Avid. Curiously, Avid only asks for the VIDEO and AUDIO, nothing else.

I think I may have a solution...

I had this same problem on my 17' MBPro, but then I started doing the transfer from the USB port that is adjacent to the FW800 and FW 400 ports on the laptop's right side (I am copying to two separate external HDD's when on a shoot). I can usually transfer a full 8GB P2 Card in about 8-9 minutes to a single HDD.

When I was transferring from the USB port on the left side of the laptop, transfers of 8GB P2 cards were taking around 20 minutes or more. Hope that helps,

Peter

P2 Genie significantly speeds up the transfer process on a Mac with a P2 Store connected... and your media stays in it's original MXF format with all of its metadata. Then import into FCP. Been using it all week and it works great.

Kevin