I know that manual focus is more accurate when used by experienced people, but I am wondering what my best options will be. I am shooting my sons H.S. Graduation. Besides the obvious stage, I will be shooting the walking to the stage. Is this best done with auto or is there a manual technique for this? Much learning to do so all help is appreciated.

p.s. I will be using the A1u on tripod with fluid head and the stealth varizoom.

I use auto a lot with great results. If it looses focus I zoom out a little and zoom back in again and then the focus is on track again.

I use auto a lot with great results. If it looses focus I zoom out a little and zoom back in again and then the focus is on track again.


Thanks...that is good to know. How about exposure etc..

I typically use most on auto but exposure I tend to click on the exposure button to get the default setting then click on it again and bring it down one notch.

Auto-focus seems to go out of focus randomnly sometimes (or maybe when there's some motion). It's unreliable sometimes, but good most of the time.

Auto focus will only serve you well if:
-Light levels are good (no low light)
-Subject stays in the center of frame

Personally, I don't use auto focus for anything-period. Some cameras this is hard to do on and it will limit you to locked down cameras and very little in frame-depth motion, but the pictures you can get will look heads and tails better with manual focus.

Same with auto everything else. While the convenience of not having to use all the little dealies on your camera is nice. As the camera operator, your job is to control the light being captured to tape. The more you let the camera do, the less control you are exerting over your images. On the fully auto end, you really don't even have control over framing as you have to center everything to get the auto stuff to work.

Bottom line, spend the time to learn the manual controls on your camera. You should be able to operate them without having to look for the controls.

--Some cameras dont allow this kind of control, but anything > $500 should have manual control either tucked away in the menus or right out in the open for you to play with.

My question is how to use manual focus if you are zooming in/out constantly and if you are moving the camera around to try to focus on things that are closer and farther from the camera.

My question is how to use manual focus if you are zooming in/out constantly and if you are moving the camera around to try to focus on things that are closer and farther from the camera.

That is what I am looking for as well. It may just be a matter of practice, but any tips would be helpful. I knew a person that was a pro camera man and they did not even have auto focus ability. He said they would never rely on it.

That is what I am looking for as well. It may just be a matter of practice, but any tips would be helpful. I knew a person that was a pro camera man and they did not even have auto focus ability. He said they would never rely on it.In my opinion, for the majority of users, i would tend to suggest using Auto-focus as a default, but always be aware of the image in the LCD/viewfinder and if it drifts off or the cam starts focusing on the background etc (unwanted focus) then be ready to instantly do a spot focus or flick the switch to manual focus.

I agree you can't always rely on auto-focus, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't use it as your default focus method, and be ready to jump in on the rare-ish occasions when the cam loses focus or 'picks' the wrong subject.

What are you shooting that you have to zoom in/out all the time and move the camera? How long do you have to setup each shot, what is your inteded audience for the footage?

There is no time to use push auto focus (which doesn't even work unless you have a Manfrotto Lanc controller) or flick it to manual as the out-of-focus moments happen so fast while shooting.

I use zooms many times when recording festivals or even on short films. Motion? That's in plenty of my shots where I'm following a subject as he's moving down hallways, opening doors and peeking in (or going in), going in and out of rooms, everything.

I've experienced loss of focus on several occasions when doing this, and then it takes a few seconds and then it's back to focus. In fact, one time (not on the Sony camera, but on a Panasonic DVX-100), I was fixed on a tripod, at a fixed zoom setting, and the focus still suddenly went in and out of focus on its own. Not sure if this was because of a changing in stage lighting (although if so, it was very subtle as I couldn't see a change in lighting).

In any case, I need to know how to use manual focus while zooming in and out and when there is motion and when there is a change of lighting (which there usually is if moving around).

There is no time to use push auto focus (which doesn't even work unless you have a Manfrotto Lanc controller) or flick it to manual as the out-of-focus moments happen so fast while shooting.

Focus is a range of distances from the lens. With your auto focus turned off, pick a point in front of the camera and manually focus on that, anything the same distance from the lens will be in focus. You can then run wild keeping your subject the same distance from the lens and they will be in focus.

I use zooms many times when recording festivals or even on short films. Motion? That's in plenty of my shots where I'm following a subject as he's moving down hallways, opening doors and peeking in (or going in), going in and out of rooms, everything.

Zooms will generally keep focus as long as you are still the same PHYSICAL distance from the subject you've focussed on.

I've experienced loss of focus on several occasions when doing this, and then it takes a few seconds and then it's back to focus. In fact, one time (not on the Sony camera, but on a Panasonic DVX-100), I was fixed on a tripod, at a fixed zoom setting, and the focus still suddenly went in and out of focus on its own. Not sure if this was because of a changing in stage lighting (although if so, it was very subtle as I couldn't see a change in lighting).

Sounds you've left the auto focus turned on, then tried to manually focus it. In lower light, the camera won't get enough information to focus correctly, so it'll "fish" for focus. Again, this could be corrected (especially on a tripod) by focussing on a given distance and zooming from there shouldn't change the focus.

In any case, I need to know how to use manual focus while zooming in and out and when there is motion and when there is a change of lighting (which there usually is if moving around).

I'm not sure about the DVX, but the XL1s won't allow zoom and focus at the same time. If you focus on a range and keep your subjects in that range, you should be able to zoom freely without affecting the in focus range...the trick is to stay the same distance from your subject.

Focus is a range of distances from the lens. With your auto focus turned off, pick a point in front of the camera and manually focus on that, anything the same distance from the lens will be in focus. You can then run wild keeping your subject the same distance from the lens and they will be in focus.



Zooms will generally keep focus as long as you are still the same PHYSICAL distance from the subject you've focussed on.



Sounds you've left the auto focus turned on, then tried to manually focus it. In lower light, the camera won't get enough information to focus correctly, so it'll "fish" for focus. Again, this could be corrected (especially on a tripod) by focussing on a given distance and zooming from there shouldn't change the focus.



I'm not sure about the DVX, but the XL1s won't allow zoom and focus at the same time. If you focus on a range and keep your subjects in that range, you should be able to zoom freely without affecting the in focus range...the trick is to stay the same distance from your subject.

Thanks for all of the tips. What about having to go off a stationary tripod and basically pan from to different distances? I am filming my sons HS graduation and the position I will be shooting from will cause me to pan from a range of appox 20 feet (seating -> isle) and then zoom in slightly from a range of 40 feet (stage).

Best way to maintain focus with panning and zooming from a stationary position?

Thx

Thanks, I will try that. But one thing, about the "fishing" for focus - I left it on full-auto always, never tried to flip to manual focus.

I'm a big proponent of turning off all the auto bits and taking the time to learn to run your camera manually...it's a practice thing like anything else. at 20ft, you should be able to focus out and have everything from 20 ft to infinity in focus. Run some test on it by having someone walk away from the camera util they start to come into focus (might want to run through a largish tv for this). This will be the minimum focal distance...with the focus all the way out, you should focus from there to infinity, then just setup that far away from your minimum and the rest is all you, zooms, pans and everything. Learn to ride the focus manually with practice for faster, more reactive focussing, you'll eventually get a feel for it that will allow you to tweak the focus instinctively.

I'm a big proponent of turning off all the auto bits and taking the time to learn to run your camera manually...it's a practice thing like anything else. at 20ft, you should be able to focus out and have everything from 20 ft to infinity in focus. Run some test on it by having someone walk away from the camera util they start to come into focus (might want to run through a largish tv for this). This will be the minimum focal distance...with the focus all the way out, you should focus from there to infinity, then just setup that far away from your minimum and the rest is all you, zooms, pans and everything. Learn to ride the focus manually with practice for faster, more reactive focussing, you'll eventually get a feel for it that will allow you to tweak the focus instinctively.


I agree with the practice. We have a 52 inch HD tv. I planned on running some test runs with the wife and will definately do this. I agree that manual control, when used correctly, is by far the best.

Maybe I'm just lazy, but I will often use the auto focus to get a good focus for the distance and then switch back to manual to make sure the camera won't 'decide' to focus on something else, especially when *my* focus is not in center frame...

not lazy at all, that's a good practice...assuming there is enough light to get a reliable focus in the first place, but turning off the auto focus is the big part here, that will eliminate the fishing and allow you to use framings other than dead center.

...and allow you to use framings other than dead center.I understand what you're saying here, but i think "dead center" is a slightly misleading thing. I can have subjects quite off-center with my cam and it retains focus. Depends on contrast available in your subject, contrast available in the 'background', how far off-center the sbject is obviously, and the algorithm that your cam uses to decide what to focus on in autofocus mode. LAtter is probably the biggest factor and will vary quite a bit i'd think. - that's a matter of knowing your camera's autofocus system well and knowing how far off-center you can push it before it switches focus to background.

I understand what you're saying here, but i think "dead center" is a slightly misleading thing. I can have subjects quite off-center with my cam and it retains focus. Depends on contrast available in your subject, contrast available in the 'background', how far off-center the sbject is obviously, and the algorithm that your cam uses to decide what to focus on in autofocus mode. LAtter is probably the biggest factor and will vary quite a bit i'd think. - that's a matter of knowing your camera's autofocus system well and knowing how far off-center you can push it before it switches focus to background.

I think they also mean that sometimes you want the focus away from center. Many times you want that object in the upper right corner to be in focus and the centered object not to be. I may be wrong...actually probably am :-0

I really wish the A1 had the one push focus.

Thanks

Get the Manfrotto Lanc controller and you will have that function.

Get the Manfrotto Lanc controller and you will have that function.
I know...I wish I would have done that. May still do that. I got the stealth instead. Fairly big price difference thought I think

I don't think the Stealth is a good controller at all, especially given it's "rocker" which isn't really a rocker, more like a lever.

I don't think the Stealth is a good controller at all, especially given it's "rocker" which isn't really a rocker, more like a lever.

Really? I have no issues at all although I see you slammed it in another spot. Another person did not have issue with it either. Hmmmm.

I don't think the Stealth is a good controller at all, especially given it's "rocker" which isn't really a rocker, more like a lever.


I guess the rocker is the push button thing or something. Either way...I have not had an issue with this controller and the price is very good.

Another option, if you're going to be on a steady tripod, is to use the spot focus feature when you change your focal length and then lock your manual focus back. It's hard to use though if the subject is moving. I have had the same problems filming events. The real answer is that it just takes practice learning to use the manual focus. You can practice by setting up the tripod and composing the frame so you have many different focal lengths in the shot. Then practice focusing on different objects. After you get that you can try focusing on different objects while zooming. Also, if you are going to be filming at telephoto for most of the time, I would suggest turning the camera's steadyshot off. At full telephoto, I have noticed that it creates some ghosting and other strange effects.

Yes, I will continue to slam the Varizoom Stealth as compared to other controllers, I don't feel it matches up at all. Compared to a typical rocker design, the Stealth's lever is in my opinion very clumsy. People who are really looking into good compact Lanc controllers should look at the Zoe 2005 and Manfrotto 521 Pro.

Yes, I will continue to slam the Varizoom Stealth as compared to other controllers, I don't feel it matches up at all. Compared to a typical rocker design, the Stealth's lever is in my opinion very clumsy. People who are really looking into good compact Lanc controllers should look at the Zoe 2005 and Manfrotto 521 Pro.
Well Alex...after getting on you last night and sleeping on it...you have me returning the Stealth and ordering the 521pro. Funny how that happens :-)

The Manfrotto will allow you to push the auto focus from what I hear. For me it's easy enough to take an extra step to get focus, so I can't justify the expense of a Manfrotto...
And since I rarely zoom (seen too many bad home videos I guess), I know little about zooming rates. Also, since my main interest is filmmaking, and zoom is extremely rare in that domain... I'm useless there I'm afraid...

The Manfrotto will allow you to push the auto focus from what I hear. For me it's easy enough to take an extra step to get focus, so I can't justify the expense of a Manfrotto...
And since I rarely zoom (probably from seeing so much zoom in all those bad home videos we're all forced to watch), I know little about zooming rates. Also, since my main interest is filmmaking, and zoom is extremely rare in that domain... I'm useless there I'm afraid...

I agree about two much zooming, but it is still nice to have the one push focus if needed. Definately a higher price, but I made the move any way

Cool.

It's an amazing camera no matter how you rig it.

Hope it helps you get the beautiful shots and fun for days!

Thanks... all the handy gadgets will not make up for a lack of practice though. I need to get out and shoot :-)

Thanks... all the handy gadgets will not make up for a lack of practice though. I need to get out and shoot :-)

This is the bottom line with any artform (which shooting is). Without practice, you can get good images, but not great ones. Jimi Hendrix was rumored to eat breakfast while wearing his guitar...he never left it alone.

This is the bottom line with any artform (which shooting is). Without practice, you can get good images, but not great ones. Jimi Hendrix was rumored to eat breakfast while wearing his guitar...he never left it alone.

I heard that about Hendrix as well. Practice is the key

Thanks... all the handy gadgets will not make up for a lack of practice though. I need to get out and shoot :-)Probably the wisest thing i've read on this board today.

Important not to get too obsessed with equipment. It's all useless unless you develop your skills to at least match the hardware.

I find myself now often watching movies with 2 different perspectives :
1) just as a regular movie-goer : watch and enjoy it
2) watching from a technical perspective : camera angles, the cuts they use, focus techniques, lighting, sound, editing, the whole thing. you can for sure learn a lot about what works and what doesnt and try to use that in your own filming and understanding of it all.

Probably the wisest thing i've read on this board today.

Important not to get too obsessed with equipment. It's all useless unless you develop your skills to at least match the hardware.

I find myself now often watching movies with 2 different perspectives :
1) just as a regular movie-goer : watch and enjoy it
2) watching from a technical perspective : camera angles, the cuts they use, focus techniques, lighting, sound, editing, the whole thing. you can for sure learn a lot about what works and what doesnt and try to use that in your own filming and understanding of it all.

Not just movies for me. Seems like every TV show I watch I look at the perspectives. Watching Extreme Makeover home edition and looking at the angles they are using.

Still wondering how I can shoot a HS graduation where I need to shoot the graduates in the seats, then walking down the isle and then the stage. All from one spot. Focus dilema with this. Has anyone used the transition mode (cannot remember official name) where you pre focus on 2 objects and you can click back and forth?

It's called shot transition.

...

Still wondering how I can shoot a HS graduation where I need to shoot the graduates in the seats, then walking down the isle and then the stage. All from one spot. Focus dilema with this. Has anyone used the transition mode (cannot remember official name) where you pre focus on 2 objects and you can click back and forth?

Shot transition mode is great. Really handy, especially on the A1.

You can either toggle between the two settings, or more usefully, have it transition to one setting when you start recording. I find the second more useful because the only way to toggle is via the touchscreen, which jiggles the camera. You can trigger recording via the remote.

It's called shot transition.
So have you ever used it? would this be an option for my scenario?

I have found the A1 to not be well set up for manual focus. The focus ring runs a servo motor, so it is not direct mechanical focus with that positive "feel" that you get with a still camera lens. Also the image quality of both the viewfinder and the LCD screen is inadequate for Hi Def focusing IMO. The auto focus will do a good job of dead on focus. The problem is focus drift if the subject moves out of the center of the frame, or is small in the frame. Then the auto focus starts seeking another subject.
The best compromise I have arrived at is to autofocus on the subject (you may have to zoom in to get dead on) and then flick the switch to manual to hold the focus. You have to repeat the process for each shot, and if the subject is, for example moving towards you, it's not a practical solution. If you are shooting run n' gun realtime events it's a major pain. And the price is high. A little focus slip when seen on a Hi Def monitor is much, much more noticable than what we were used to with DV.
Unfortunately, to do real, effective, manual focus you need a very high res viewfinder and a true mechanical focus ring-- none of which are you going to find in this price range

I have found the A1 to not be well set up for manual focus. The focus ring runs a servo motor, so it is not direct mechanical focus with that positive "feel" that you get with a still camera lens. Also the image quality of both the viewfinder and the LCD screen is inadequate for Hi Def focusing IMO. The auto focus will do a good job of dead on focus. The problem is focus drift if the subject moves out of the center of the frame, or is small in the frame. Then the auto focus starts seeking another subject.
The best compromise I have arrived at is to autofocus on the subject (you may have to zoom in to get dead on) and then flick the switch to manual to hold the focus. You have to repeat the process for each shot, and if the subject is, for example moving towards you, it's not a practical solution. If you are shooting run n' gun realtime events it's a major pain. And the price is high. A little focus slip when seen on a Hi Def monitor is much, much more noticable than what we were used to with DV.
Unfortunately, to do real, effective, manual focus you need a very high res viewfinder and a true mechanical focus ring-- none of which are you going to find in this price range

Thanks. I am going to attempt manual with push button AF from the Manfrotto. I think this may be the best option for right now.

So have you ever used it? would this be an option for my scenario?

Yes. The shot transition mode stores focus settings as well. So you can pre-focus at two different distances and switch between them.

I have found the A1 to not be well set up for manual focus. The focus ring runs a servo motor, so it is not direct mechanical focus with that positive "feel" that you get with a still camera lens. Also the image quality of both the viewfinder and the LCD screen is inadequate for Hi Def focusing IMO. The auto focus will do a good job of dead on focus. The problem is focus drift if the subject moves out of the center of the frame, or is small in the frame. Then the auto focus starts seeking another subject.
The best compromise I have arrived at is to autofocus on the subject (you may have to zoom in to get dead on) and then flick the switch to manual to hold the focus. You have to repeat the process for each shot, and if the subject is, for example moving towards you, it's not a practical solution. If you are shooting run n' gun realtime events it's a major pain. And the price is high. A little focus slip when seen on a Hi Def monitor is much, much more noticable than what we were used to with DV.
Unfortunately, to do real, effective, manual focus you need a very high res viewfinder and a true mechanical focus ring-- none of which are you going to find in this price rangeAgree absolutely with everything Robert said here. It is very hard to manual focus with a zoom ring when it's just activating a servo motor. It doesn't have that same 'linear' feel that manual focusing on an SLR has. So i agree it's difficult to find a perfect solution for all focus situations with this cam.

Agree absolutely with everything Robert said here. It is very hard to manual focus with a zoom ring when it's just activating a servo motor. It doesn't have that same 'linear' feel that manual focusing on an SLR has. So i agree it's difficult to find a perfect solution for all focus situations with this cam.

Well I got the Manfrotto 521Pro controller in today. Have not had the chance to play with, but the one push AF does work with the A1.

Agree absolutely with everything Robert said here. It is very hard to manual focus with a zoom ring when it's just activating a servo motor. It doesn't have that same 'linear' feel that manual focusing on an SLR has. So i agree it's difficult to find a perfect solution for all focus situations with this cam.


I agree with both of you. After messing around tonight I realized the limited capabilities of the lcd and viewfinder for really being able to pinpoint focus. I am going to rely a lot on the 521Pro that arrived today. Played with it for the last hour and have to say I am impressed. The one shot AF will come in handy IMHO and the ability to set zoom speed is another great feature.

Michael

When you get a chance, if you could find out how long in seconds in takes to go from max.wideangle to max.telephoto on the A1 using the 521Pro controller at the slowest possible continuous speed please. Also does the 521Pro have a menu or something or a way of selecting different zoom-speed rates ? Or is there just one rate? Grateful for any info on this pls!

thanks in advance

Michael

When you get a chance, if you could find out how long in seconds in takes to go from max.wideangle to max.telephoto on the A1 using the 521Pro controller at the slowest possible continuous speed please. Also does the 521Pro have a menu or something or a way of selecting different zoom-speed rates ? Or is there just one rate? Grateful for any info on this pls!

thanks in advance

Will do Stu, but for your second question...you can set your speed. You basically start zooming at the speed you want with the rocker. When you get the desired speed you hold down the focus button for a second and it will keep that speed for when you choose fixed mode zooming. Nice feature indeed. I will do some speed test tonight (will be late) unless someone beats me to it.

Thanks

Stu...I just did a quick one time test with my shakey hands. I got 32 seconds from tele to wide. Someone may get slower, but that is what I got.

Thanks

Stu...I just did a quick one time test with my shakey hands. I got 32 seconds from tele to wide. Someone may get slower, but that is what I got.

ThanksThats great - 32secs is a good result and i think better (i.e slower) than other reports i've read of other LANC products.
Many thanks Michael for that info.

Thats great - 32secs is a good result and i think better (i.e slower) than other reports i've read of other LANC products.
Many thanks Michael for that info.


I will do it again when I get home later tonight to make sure. I basically set my zoom speed like mentioned in previous post and timed it. 32 seconds give or take 1/2 second...