I have had a Sony PD150P for a few months now. I am using it mainly for weddings and have been relying on the auto settings for exposure for most shots except where backlighting is a problem and in the church. Had a Canon XM1 before so adjusting exposure was easier because the shutter is locked when the iris wheel is engaged(correct me if I am wrong:-) unlike the Sony where you have to lock the shutter and gain as well.

Now that I am more confident with the camera I have been concentrating on improving my use of the manual exposure controls. With that in mind I was wondering if turning off auto shutter in the menu is a good idea. I gather that the shutter is then locked at 1/50 although the PD150 manual makes no reference to this. I thought that by turning the shutter off it would be one less thing I would have to worry about when going to manual exposure during the heat of a wedding shoot. I would have to make sure I engaged the correct ND filter when prompted but are there any downsides to locking the shutter.
And if so, why is the option there in the menu?

Regards,
Mark Sudfelt.

hey

you dont have to worry about auto shutter in manual mode.

you can dial up any speed you like, then adjust your iris to the light gain or loss

If by lock, you mean place the shutter speed into manual mode, then the advantage is that if you do not, the camera will not truly be in manual mode.

With the PD150 you must have shutter speed, gain, and aperature in manual mode or the camera will make its own exposure determination and modify any of the settings that are left in automatic mode.

Some people think this is a mistake but truly it could be no other way. It allows one to modify one parameter but have the camera set exposure by countering with another parameter. So one can fool with depth of field using the aperature control without also having to worry about adjusting one of the other 2 parameters so as to maintain a correct exposure.

So you can have one or 2 parameters in manual mode and still get automatic exposure control or you can place all three in manual mode and run exposure yourself.

Mark, if you turn off the auto shtr in the menu there is a risk that in very bright situations the aperture starts to close down (a lot futher than f-11) resulting in resolution reduction by diffraction because the shutter time reduction/compensation can no longer occur. So it is not advisable unless you specifically need that paricular shutter setting at the expense of potential resolution reduction.

Confused enough yet, Mark? Let's see what I can do to add to the confusion. When you look in the viewfinder or lcd, you see various items listed. Here is the rule: If you don't see an item listed, then it is in automatic. "But I turned off automatic shutter in the menus," he protested. No matter. If you don't see the shutter speed indicated in the display, it's not locked. What this means in the real world is, you may be shooting in a low light situation, with the iris wide open, and unbeknownset to you, the shutter has gone to a slower speed to make up for the lack of light. Actually, you would know if you were paying attention, because the picture would start with that slow shutter stutter. Did I really say that? Anyhow. You must see the item in the viewfinder/lcd to be certain it is locked, or as Sony says, in "hold." Maddening.

The "big three" items you are interested in are "gain," "iris," and "shutter speed." You will always want to check these with the slider in the center, or "hold" position. If you don't see one of these listed, it is in auto. Hate to keep repeating this, but it is very important. If you want to leave the iris in "auto" mode, fine as long as you see the other two indicated.

Turning "off" auto shutter in the menus means that if you are shooting in "full auto" mode, the camera will not change the shutter setting, since this is where the most dramatic change in picture quality can occur, as I alluded to above. But if you are shooting in the "hold" position, and you do not see the shutter setting, the camera may change the shutter setting.

Why would you ever use the lower position on the slider, what Sony calls "locked?" So you can avoid making a mistake like I did one time where I wanted to adjust an audio setting, and started spinning the wheel. Unfortunately I was on "white balance" and unkowingly moved the setting from "bulb" to "daylight" and didn't discover the mistake because I was looking at the wonderful black and white finder.

HTH

Wayne, when the auto shtr is "off" in the menu settings the shutter speed remains locked, whether it is prompted or not in the viewfinder. I just reverified this on a VX2000.

<<<-- Originally posted by Andre De Clercq : Wayne, when the auto shtr is "off" in the menu settings the shutter speed remains locked, whether it is prompted or not in the viewfinder. I just reverified this on a VX2000. -->>>

Thanks for taking the time to test it out, Andre. However, here are a couple of links that disagree with your results.

http://www.ieba.com/research/DSR250problems.html
> ISSUE 2: Automatic Shutter menu actually has no effect- it can't be disabled. (also affects PD-150)
> Set everything to manual (three sliding switches next to your right cheek) so you are not on full auto, not on ATW, not on auto gain. Go into the menu to turn off the last auto... auto shutter. Now use your ring finger to turn the iris to manual just like you would with ANY other professional camcorder- which what the DSR-250 is. Adjust your iris for a dark situation. Swing the camera to something bright the image should wash out... right? Wrong!!!
> The camera still takes over the shutter and closes down (increases the shutter speed) for proper exposure. The little "shutter" light in the viewfinder even comes on! The only way I can find to disable this is to turn the manual shutter switch under the lens on... and set it to 60 (or any set number) which is what the camera ought to be doing by default.
> Sony POSC confirms what I found- the DSR-250's Automatic Shutter menu setting does absolutely nothing.
> In order to get the camera to really be what any professional user would call "manual," you have to turn the shutter on under the lens, and leave it on, all the time (!) so that when you put the iris in manual, the shutter doesn't kick in and "correct" your exposure for you. This is completely opposite from every professional camcorder where you can set the manual shutter speed to anything you choose, 1/500, 1/67.2 (clearscan) or 1/15 (slow shutter effect) and enable that manual shutter setting, and disable it with the flick of a switch. Not with the DSR-250! You must now use the manual shutter to force the camcorder to shoot at 1/60 (1/50 PAL) second and then go through the menus every time you need a different shutter speed.
> This issue also affects the PD-150. I have also had one report that PAL camcorders are affected by this programming bug. Independent tests confirm that disabling the automatic shutter does absolutely nothing. This is not like the programming on the VX-1000, or the TRV-900. Other people have tested those camcorders and confirmed that you do NOT have to enter a manual shutter speed in order for the camcorder to stay at 1/60 (1/50 for PAL) This indicates that new programming was introduced with this camcorder, and it was programmed incorrectly.
> Sony needs to correct the programming so that disabling the automatic shutter in the menu does what it is supposed to do and the DSR-250 works like the pro camcorder it is supposed to be. This is a problem which needs to be fixed.

(Actually, I don't agree with the author's conclusion. I think the camera operates differently from what he was used to, and he sees this as a design error.)

Here is another link from this obscure website:
http://www.dvinfo.net/sony/tips.php

And the beat goes on. A very confusing subject, Andre, and I have no answer to your experiment. But I would tell newbies, "If you don't see it indicated in the viewfinder/lcd, it is not locked."

The whole confusion I think, relates to the fact that for "normal use" of the camcorder it will do nothing. If one "forgets" however to apply the ND filters or the amount of light entering the lens goes beyond the limits set by f11 and the ND2 then the auto shutter acts (if it is "on"). When it is "off" the aperture start to go byond F11 introducing the known diffraction effects.

When I have time I am going to sit down and read this thread very carefully. I used to think I understood the auto shutter setting. Now I will admit I am confused.

Rick

Hmmm.

When my PD150 is in full manual mode, nothing I can do to the camera changes the shutter speed except pressing the shutter speed button and then operating the thumbwheel.

If I place the camera in hold, the translucent bar 'under' the camera speed readout goes away but the shutter speed stays on screen. It is indeed locked. Nothing I can do will change that value.

This new camera works just like my old camera did in this respect.

Am I missing something about setup that would cause this not to work as I described?

OK. I did some tests with my PD150 and discovered the following: with the camera in Full Auto mode (with the slider all the way up) I pointed the camera at a bright light and ignored the request to insert the ND2. I shot a bit of footage, and then played it back with the data information switched on to see what the camera selected. It indicated the iris was at f/11 and the shutter speed was 250. Next, I went into the menu and found "Auto Shutter," which I switched to "Off." I re-shot the demo and played it back. This time the iris indicated f/11, but the shutter speed was only 60 which would be "normal" for an NTSC camera.

I then repeated the experiment in the "Hold" position (the middle position of the silver slider). I set the exposure to 2.4 and shot the light with the gain locked, but not the shutter speed. In other words, I could see the 2.4 and the 0 gain in the lcd, but no shutter speed. (Remember, the "Auto Shutter" is still set to "Off.") I then shot the scene and played it back. The data information indicated the iris at 2.4, but the shutter speed was 2000! Obviously, the shutter speed was not locked. Now I set up the shot again, this time with the iris of 2.4 and a shutter speed of 60, as indicated in the lcd. I shot some footage, and when I played it back, the data indicated the shutter held at 60, along with the iris at 2.4. I believe this confirms the proposition that if it is not indicated in the lcd/viewfinder, it is not locked. However...

I also did the experiment in low light conditions, expecting that with the iris locked at 2.4 and the gain locked at 0db, but leaving the shutter speed available to the camera, that the camera would add a slower shutter speed to compensate for the lack of light. It did not do this, however, and when I played back the data, it indicated a shutter speed of 60. It made no difference whether the "Auto Shutter" was in "On" or "Off."

My conclusion is that the "Auto Shutter" switch refers to the camera in "Full Auto" mode. It will have no effect when shooting In the "Hold" mode. For most shooters, it is probably adviseable to leave the "Auto Shutter" in the "Off" position to avoid the possibility of the unusal movement signature of high speed shutters. And again, when shooting in "Manual" or "Hold" mode, if you don't see the iris setting, gain and shutter speed in the lcd, you are not truly in Manual mode.

This has been confirmed with my PD150, and I believe it would be correct for the VX2K also.

I welcome your comments.

The shutter adaption (if auto shtr is "on") only compensates for overexposure. Again, if it is "off" the overexposure is being compensated by smaller apertures (>f11, not indicated in by the data code). Like I already mentioned, I would prefer to keep it "on" because the loss of resolution is very significant.(tested!) I would prefer sharpness above potential strobing if there is fast motion in the picture. On both setting it garantees "full auto" (excuding shutter values below full system setting 1/50-1/60) and this is the basic phylosophy why the (non promted!) exposure correction exists.

I agree with what you are saying, Andre, up to your last statement, which I find confusing; "On both setting it garantees "full auto" (excuding shutter values below full system setting 1/50-1/60) and this is the basic phylosophy why the (non promted!) exposure correction exists." If you could explain in a bit more detail.

My point, which my tests demonstrate, is that, if you think putting your "Auto Shutter" switch to "Off," will lock your shutter speed when you are in "Hold" mode, you are mistaken. You must see the shutter speed indicated in the finder to be certain it is indeed locked. I think this will explain why some people have had a "problem" with their camera. They think they are in full manual mode and when they pan from a dark area to a brighter area they see the brightness level adjust to the new lighting condition. They erroneously may think this is the iris adjusting, but in fact it is the shutter speed adjusting to the brighter condition. "But I set the "Auto Shutter" to 'off'" they protest. But that only controls the shutter speed in full auto. You must set the shutter speed and see it in the viewfinder/lcd to lock in the setting.

Sorry if this is going on a bit long, but this is a very important concept to understand, because when it happens to you, it can make you crazy.

The "hold" mode holds whatever has been set manually, and no (accidental) changes can be made. It does not at all relate to "full manual mode". If AE-S (shutter priority) has been chosen and you go with this setting in the "lock" mode the cam will still behave (and be blocked) in the AE-S mode. This means, depending on the light conditions, the iris will react, keeping the shutter speed fixed. If the amount of light becomes too high (and only then), depending on the auto shtr setting in the menu the shutter will start to change(auto shtr "on") or the iris will l further close down (auto shtr "off") and exceed F11. B.t.w. if you want to "see" the shutter speed reactions try to put a crt monitor screen image visible while you do you shooting experiments. The width changes of the horizontal band tells you everything about the shutter behaviour.

I think I have to apologize to the poster in Belgium for my English. In my above posts I used the word "hold" to refer to the manual adjustment position (center position on the slider). This is incorrect when you use the Sony manual (English) which, on page 42 identifys the three positions on the selector, from top to bottom, as: Auto lock, Manual position (Auto Lock release), and Hold. Why they didn't simply list the three as Auto, Manual, and Lock is subject for another post dealing with semantics and translation. Anyway, I also apologize to any readers who were confused by my mis-labeling of the functions.

I have a couple questions for Andre regarding today's post. How exactly do you chose "AE-S" which I assume means "Auto Exposure-shutter priority?"

"This means, depending on the light conditions, the iris will react, keeping the shutter speed fixed. If the amount of light becomes too high (and only then), depending on the auto shtr setting in the menu the shutter will start to change(auto shtr "on") or the iris will l further close down (auto shtr "off") and exceed F11." This is correct, but only in the "Auto Lock" mode. In the "Auto Lock realease" mode (aka Manual) the "Auto Shutter" setting in the menu has no effect. The shutter will be "held" only if you see the setting indicated in the finder/lcd. I refer to the note on the bottom of page 43.
"The functions (iris, gain, and shutter speed) that are not adjusted manually will be automatically adjusted according to shooting conditions." In other words, if you don't see a function listed in the finder/lcd, it is not locked and is in auto mode. No mention is made of an exception if the "Auto Shutter" is switched to "Off," since the Auto Shutter only refers to when the camera is in Auto Lock mode.

In regards to the "Hold" mode, or what I prefer to call "Locked," the same holds true. If the shutter speed is NOT indicated, and with the "Auto Shutter" set to "Off," the camera will still adjust the shutter in the "Hold" mode. I guess this could be called a "shutter priority" setting? I have very little experience using the "Hold" setting since I usually want to be able to adjust the iris, but I can see where this might be valuable in certain conditions. I certainly wish I had used the "Hold" setting when we shot our Motor City Madness show to keep me from changing the white balance setting accidentally.

"The shutter will be "held" only if you see the the setting indicated in the finder/lcd"... In auto mode you don't see anything prompted and the shutter is locked when "auto shtr" is "off" in the menu. Tom Hardwick states it rightly in another forum: "Setting Auto Shutter to "off" simply means that the shutter speed won't be varied in the auto mode. Auto shutter "on" means the camera can use any
shutter speed it likes; it can be any value,... "
Of course in the full manual mode (with the prompts visible) the menu settings overridden. So will be the auto shttr setting. Maybe I was misleading you with the AE-S which does do nothing as long as there is no shutter time being selected. So even with (only) AE-S on the screen the cam is still in auto.

And the beat goes on:
(Wayne quoted by Andre:) "The shutter will be "held" only if you see the the setting indicated in the finder/lcd"... In auto mode you don't see anything prompted and the shutter is locked when "auto shtr" is "off" in the menu.

What you say is true Andre, but you quoted me out of context. My original comment was: "In the "Auto Lock realease" mode (aka Manual) the "Auto Shutter" setting in the menu has no effect. The shutter will be "held" only if you see the setting indicated in the finder/lcd." My comment refered to to the Manual "Auto Lock Release" mode, not full auto.

Andre continues:
Tom Hardwick states it rightly in another forum: "Setting Auto Shutter to "off" simply means that the shutter speed won't be varied in the auto mode. Auto shutter "on" means the camera can use any
shutter speed it likes; it can be any value,... " I agree, in "Auto Lock" mode.

Just to refresh our memory, I refer to Mark's original post:
"Now that I am more confident with the camera I have been concentrating on improving my use of the manual exposure controls. With that in mind I was wondering if turning off auto shutter in the menu is a good idea. I gather that the shutter is then locked at 1/50 although the PD150 manual makes no reference to this. I thought that by turning the shutter off it would be one less thing I would have to worry about when going to manual exposure during the heat of a wedding shoot."

"turning off auto shutter in the menu" will have no effect on the manual controls, as he is asking. "I gather that the shutter is then locked at 1/50" Absolutely not. If you are shooting in what we call "manual position," you must see the item in the finder/lcd to be certain it is locked, which is what I said in my original post, although I misused the word "hold" for "manual position." I also said "locked" when I should have said "Hold." Damn Sony.

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, the defense rests.

<<<-- Originally posted by Mike Rehmus : Hmmm.

When my PD150 is in full manual mode, nothing I can do to the camera changes the shutter speed except pressing the shutter speed button and then operating the thumbwheel.

Wayne
If you don't see the shutter speed indicated Mike, it is not locked. The speed will change, but you will not see a read out indicating this. Try this. In "manual" set the iris and lock it, but do not set the shutter speed; you should not see it indicated. Now roll tape, and pan to a very bright light source and record a bit more. Then playback the footage with the "data code" on so you can see the settings. You should see the shutter move from the original shot, and increase in speed as it gets to the bright light. Even if you have "Auto Shutter" turned off in the menus.

If I place the camera in hold, the translucent bar 'under' the camera speed readout goes away but the shutter speed stays on screen. It is indeed locked. Nothing I can do will change that value.

Wayne
Yes. The shutter speed is indicated, therefore it is "locked." But if you did not see it, it would act just like the above example.

This new camera works just like my old camera did in this respect.

Am I missing something about setup that would cause this not to work as I described? -->>>

All is well, Mike.

Wayne plse try the following: put the slider in manual (center position), set the auto shttr "on" in the menu, point to a not too bright scene and verify the shutter setting it takes by pushing "shttr" and push the wheel (will be 1/60). Push the shttr button again (so that nothing remains prompted) and point to a bright scene. Ignore the ND prompt and veryfy again by pushing the shttr button and the wheel and you will see the shutter speed has gone up (up to 1/215 in my test). Then change the setting in the menu to auto shttr "off". Repeat exactly the above sequence and verify finally the shutter speed. Iwill be kept on 1/60 (1/50 in my test) while nothing is on the screen. What this all means:
Putting the cam in MANUAL (shift the slider to autolock release – center position) without further settings defined (nothing prompted), the cam will still block the shutter speed when it is set so in the menu (auto shttr off). Again: without any prompt and the slider in manual mode, the shutter can be locked in the menu by setting “autoshttr off”. Thus you don’t need the shutter speed visible in order to lock it, neither in auto, nor in manual mode. When you see it in manual mode, it is of course locked to the set value all the time. So the statement “if you don’t see the shutter speed indicated in the display, it is not locked” is wrong in auto mode, and in manual mode as well.

I believe we have reached an impasse, Andre.
With the Auto Shutter set Off. Slider switch in center (manual) position, iris set to 4.8, shutter set to 60 as verified by display. Now, I pan to a bright light, and the image is overexposed. I press the shutter speed button, and the 60 disappears from the display, and the image becomes more properly exposed. Now, I press the shutter speed button again, and "2000" now appears in the display. The shutter went into auto mode and adjusted the shutter speed to 1/2000, which is now locked as it appears in the display. I pan back to the scene, and the 2000 is still displayed. I press the button again, the 2000 disappears, and I press the shutter speed button yet again, and it now displays, 60, the normal default in NTSC world.

All of which confirms my earlier test, which allows me to say with great certainty, "If you do not see the function (iris, gain, shutter speed) indicated in the viewfinder, it is in automatic mode."

I quote from page 42 of the English manual for the PD 150: "The functions (iris, gain and shutter speed) that are not adjusted manually will be automatically adjusted according to shooting conditions." (See Auto Shutter)

Perhaps the VX2K works differently. I guess we will need some others to duplicate our experiment and see what their results indicate.

I guess the jury is still out.

Bulletin: I am adding to this post after finding a VX2K manual. I refer to instructions on page 45 of the English manual, which describes how to adjust the shutter speed in manual operation. Nothing contrary to what we have described, however this is the instruction for returning to automatic shutter operation as it appears in the manual:

To return to automatic shutter speed mode
Set the AUTO LOCK selector to AUTO LOCK or press SHUTTER SPEED. The shutter
speed indicator disappears from the LCD or viewfinder screen. (pg 45)

No mention is made of "unless you have selected Off in the Auto Shutter menu."
I believe this supports my contention and runs directly contrary to what Andre has advised. I believe that our major disagreement is, I contend the AUTO SHUTTER control in the menus only functions when the camera is in AUTO LOCK mode. OTOH, Andre contends that by selecting OFF in this menu item, this will effectively lock the shutter speed in the manual mode, even when the item does not appear in the viewfinder/lcd.

What do our readers think? Hello? Hello?

You wrote: "With the Auto Shutter set Off. Slider switch in center (manual) position, iris set to 4.8, shutter set to 60 as verified by display"...I don't have to read any further Wayne , because you don't create the situation I was describing...I wrote: "slider in mid position(manual) and nothing more...no further selections or screen prompts. NOT iris set (prompted) at whatever, NOT shutter set to 1/60...Just the slider to MANUAL. So the cam is then in manual mode OK? Then it reacts exactly like I described which means that the shutter can be locked or unlocked in manual mode (slider in mid position)without any prompt.

I'm finding all this rather bewildering! All along I've had a hard time understanding the shutter speed function on my VX-2000. I was going to stay out of it, but couldn't stand it any longer so I tried some of the things being discussed. On the VX2K:

Repeating Wayne's expeiment, I set auto shutter off in the menu. Slider switch is in middle, maual position. I press the exposure button next to the LCD screen and use the wheel to set the iris at f4.8. All that shows in the viewfinder thus far is "F4.8 0dB", no shutter speed is indicated. I press the shutter speed button on the back of the camera. Nothing happens. Press the thumb wheel. Nothing. I cannot set the shutter speed at all! Seems like this is different from the PD-150, no?

Next, I press the exposure button again. Nothing is displayed in the finder but the scene brightens indicating the camera is using auto iris to adjust exposure. Now I press the shutter speed button. 60 appears highlighted in the finder. Now I press the exposure button again. The 60 is unhighlit (is that a word?) and OPEN 3dB is displayed. I manually dial it back down to F4.8 0dB. The 60 still remains in the finder. Now I pan outside the window to the bright snow and zebra fills the screen. But F4.8 0dB 60 remains in the finder.

Finally, I press the shutter speed button again. Nothing happens. But when I press the exposure button and auto-iris kicks in then the 60 becomes highlit again, as though I had pressed the shutter speed button. I set the shutter speed to 1000, then press exposure, putting the camera back into manual iris mode. Now it continues to hold and display 1000 even as I pan through light and dark areas. I can manually set the iris as desired.

So on the VX-2000 it appears you cannot set the shutter speed unless you're in auto-iris mode. In other words, you can't adjust shutter speed manually "on the fly". To do so you must first allow the camera to set the iris wherever it wants, set your shutter speed, then readjust the iris. FWIW, I tried setting autoshutter ON in the menu and it had no effect on any of the above tests.

Your mileage may vary. Do any other VX-2000 owners get different results?

I am going to pass on this as you Andre has worn me down, and just go on my poor, uninformed way with this final note: If you place the slider in the middle position, but there is no indication of any of the three functions in the finder/lcd, then you are in effect in full auto mode.

Again, I quote from page 42 of the English manual for the PD 150: "The functions (iris, gain and shutter speed) that are not adjusted manually will be automatically adjusted according to shooting conditions." And the only way you can manually adjust these functions is by having them visible in the viewfinder. Ergo, if it isn't in the viewfinder/lcd, it is in auto.

Boyd, I am at a loss for your experiment, and maybe the VX2K is different from the PD150. Right now my brain is fried with all this and I give up. But I have in no way changed my opinion. I hope others will chime in.

My understanding is that the slider in mid position stands for "manual mode". Could well be that the cam behaves as in auto mode when nothing is prompted, but mid position of the slider is still "manual" selection.

I think your differences are that when the slider is put in the middle (manual) everything is still auto until you press iris or shutter or whatever to set (lock) that particular function. The camera will adjust the iris first to compensate then the shutter if needed. Locking the iris will then allow the camera to go ahead and adjust the shutter speed to compensate light changes (aperture priority). Lock the shutter and leave iris untouched and you have shutter priority. So it seems you are both right to a degree.

Absolutely correct Andrew. The basic issue was whether or not the shutter could be locked (through a setting in the menul) without the shutter speed is being prompted in the viewfinder. The answer is "yes" in the slider up (auto) and in the slider mid position as well. The later being associated with "manual" but in fact reacts as auto if nothing is set any further. This counterdicts
Wayne's assertion that there is nothing locked as long as it isn't prompted.

<<<-- Originally posted by Andre De Clercq : Absolutely correct Andrew. The basic issue was whether or not the shutter could be locked (through a setting in the menul) without the shutter speed is being prompted in the viewfinder. The answer is "yes" in the slider up (auto) and in the slider mid position as well. The later being associated with "manual" but in fact reacts as auto if nothing is set any further. This counterdicts
Wayne's assertion that there is nothing locked as long as it isn't prompted. -->>>

Where is your proof of this Andre? I just did another test as follows:
Auto Shutter control to "Off"
Slider to manual/center postion (Auto Lock release)
None of the functions (iris, gain, shutter speed) visible in display.
Roll tape, pan from room scene to bright light for a few seconds. Stop tape.
Playback tape with "data code" information visible, which indicates "Manual" "f/2" "ATW" "0db" and "60" for shutter speed at beginning of scene. As the camera pans to the light, two settings ramp up, with the iris changing to f/11, and then the shutter speed ramps up to "180." Conclusion: the shutter speed is not locked, despite the "Auto Shutter" being "Off."

As I indicated, it is possible that the VX2K behaves differently than my PD150, although I don't think so. This is why I hope some other VX2K owners will try these experiments and report back. Until I hear a contradictory reports from others, I will continue to say, "If you don't see the function (iris, gain, shutter speed) in the viewfinder/lcd, it isn't locked."

Andre seems to pass right over my quote from page 42 of the English manual for the PD 150: "The functions (iris, gain and shutter speed) that are not adjusted manually will be automatically adjusted according to shooting conditions."

Wayne, I just repeated (once again!) the mid position (manual) test you describe. With auto shttr off I started with f4/ 50 went up (ignoring the nd2 prompt) and the data code went to f11/ 50 with visible resolution reduction). In auto shttr on, same conditions the shutter went uo to 1/215 (f11) in the datacode. I hope indeed that other (VX and PD owners) repeat the test...Otherwise, I remain confused about :"I will continue to say, "If you don't see the function (iris, gain, shutter speed) in the viewfinder/lcd, it isn't locked."" I tought we already agreed in the autolock mode (slider up) that the shttr lock works without any prompt...If yes, you should correct your statement. W.r.t my "pass over" (page 42) This doesn't contradict anything because auto shttr is being adjusted manually in the menu (just like many other man adjustements which can be set in the menu).

<<<-- Originally posted by Andre De Clercq : Wayne, I just repeated (once again!) the mid position (manual) test you describe. With auto shttr off I started with f4/ 50 went up (ignoring the nd2 prompt) and the data code went to f11/ 50 with visible resolution reduction).>>>

Just out of curiosity, it reads as though you were able to see f/4 and 50 when you started. You must not see them in the finder to be in auto in the slider center position. Yes?


<<<In auto shttr on, same conditions the shutter went uo to 1/215 (f11) in the datacode. I hope indeed that other (VX and PD owners) repeat the test...Otherwise, I remain confused about :"I will continue to say, "If you don't see the function (iris, gain, shutter speed) in the viewfinder/lcd, it isn't locked."" I tought we already agreed in the autolock mode (slider up) that the shttr lock works without any prompt...If yes, you should correct your statement.>>>

Somewhere in my many posts I mentioned that the "Auto Shutter-Off" works only when the camera is in "Auto Lock" (top slider postition) and not in Manual (center position). That is the whole point to this discussion. But I will ammend my instructions to: When using the camera in the "Manual" (or center slider) mode, if you don't see a function (iris, gain, shutter speed) indicated in the vewfinder/lcd, then that function is in Auto mode.

<<<< W.r.t my "pass over" (page 42) This doesn't contradict anything because auto shttr is being adjusted manually in the menu (just like many other man adjustements which can be set in the menu). -->>>

There are no exceptions to the note in the manual. At that point in the manual menu choices have not even been discussed. But since the manual does contain certain errors in semantics, I don't use it as the final word. But I do think it confirms my tests.

We need others to try the tests and see what results they come up with. Unfortunately, at this point I think we are the only two individuals with any interst in this topic. And who can blame them?

Maybe one day, when people experience strobing or severe resolution reduction by diffraction in high ambient light situations, they will become interested...

Thanks for the indepth discussion guys. . .. I didn't realise it was such a difficult question to answer:-)

I think I will just leave auto shutter on in the menu, move the slider to the middle and select the shutter, gain and iris to make sure I am in full manual mode when required.

One thing that seems fairly obvious to me is that the Sony manual could have detailed the subject and options a lot better than the simple overview that is in there now.

Regards,
Mark Sudfelt