Hi Gang,

Is anyone using the JVC DR-HD100-40 (or 80) Firewire Hard drive for capturing yet?

And if you are, is this a way to get 24p into FCP pro to cut?

Thanks for any info.

Tom Chaney

If you use the Firestore to record .m2t in 24p HDV, you can process the file with MPEGSTREAMCLIP to get a 24P DVCPRO HD file.

Right now, that's the only option.

So if you export the mt2 file as DVCPRO HD 24p would it still maintain the full 1280x720 or would it be 960x720? If it does maintain the full 1280x720 isn't this a better option anyways?

So if you export the mt2 file as DVCPRO HD 24p would it still maintain the full 1280x720 or would it be 960x720? If it does maintain the full 1280x720 isn't this a better option anyways?

I tested this workflow with someone elses clips that I downloaded, and the frame size can be sent as 1280x720. The problem I have is getting the 60FPS back to 24FPS? I really want to get this Hard Drive so I am testing this out. Eventually a Quicktime Wrapper Firmware Updates appears to be coming out, but until it does, I would like to know how to extract the 24 Frames with proper audio?

Well thats good news about the full 1280x720. If your using a mac you should be able to extract the 24p from the 60p.

Waaaaait, I thought the JVC can only send 60p via the composite outs, not firewire. Am I wrong?

Waaaaait, I thought the JVC can only send 60p via the composite outs, not firewire. Am I wrong?

Adam, the 24p mpeg stream masquerades as a 60p stream to be able to lay 24 frames inside a known MPEG stream framerate. It's an issue of MPEG spec semantics. There's not 60 unique frames coming out firewire.

What is the point to buying this if you don't get instant
editing abilities in 720 24p?

Can someone explain why it cannot record in 720 24p Quicktime format?

What is the point to buying this if you don't get instant
editing abilities in 720 24p?

Can someone explain why it cannot record in 720 24p Quicktime format?

Can someone explain how to extract the 24 Frames From the 60 that are recorded. I imported the clip into Cinema Tools, and cannot preform a reverse pulldown.

Thanks for all the info guys.

The big advantage is a backup to tape. But I also thought that it may be a workaround to the 24P issue.

Sounds like it's not there yet.

We have started shooting a film, and are doing 9 more days in July. I thought this might be a nice option.

I have the DR-HD100 and presently it does not save files in quicktime format, but rather MPEG-2. FCPro does not directlty read MPEG-2 files.
Focus Enhancements is working on a firmware upgrade to support QT and FCPro. I was told 1 month, about 2 weeks ago by Technical Support.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, The files recorded in 24p are actually stored as 60p (59.94) and the 24 frames are arrayed within this 60p file by doubling some frames, and some are singles. These frames are flagged for cadence and extracting into a true 24p (23.97) file or for playback.

I'm not sure of the correct way to properly decode the 60p to 24p and maintain this cadence saved in the file. My attempts with Cinematools have been futile.

I have been using 60p (59.94) files and timelines and avoiding it all together. Granted, this takes up more disk space. But the source files are 59.94 anyway.

MPEG Streamclip can export the M2t files to just about any Quicktime format, and codec you want. So you could even export to uncompressed HD.


Dave

I have the DR-HD100 and presently it does not save files in quicktime format, but rather MPEG-2. FCPro does not directlty read MPEG-2 files.
Focus Enhancements is working on a firmware upgrade to support QT and FCPro. I was told 1 month, about 2 weeks ago by Technical Support.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, The files recorded in 24p are actually stored as 60p (59.94) and the 24 frames are arrayed within this 60p file by doubling some frames, and some are singles. These frames are flagged for cadence and extracting into a true 24p (23.97) file or for playback.

I'm not sure of the correct way to properly decode the 60p to 24p and maintain this cadence saved in the file. My attempts with Cinematools have been futile.

I have been using 60p (59.94) files and timelines and avoiding it all together. Granted, this takes up more disk space. But the source files are 59.94 anyway.

MPEG Streamclip can export the M2t files to just about any Quicktime format, and codec you want. So you could even export to uncompressed HD.


Dave

The program is great at conversion, as I havve tried out several options. I hope that the Focus Releases this quicktime thing soon.

I
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, The files recorded in 24p are actually stored as 60p (59.94) and the 24 frames are arrayed within this 60p file by doubling some frames, and some are singles. These frames are flagged for cadence and extracting into a true 24p (23.97) file or for playback.
Dave

Nearly right - the repeat frames don't really exist at all - they are only flags in the 60P MPEG stream and JVC uses the 3:2 advanced pulldown method. So the codec works more efficiently because there is only 24 frames of "real" data encoded into the 60P stream.

Steve Mullen has gone into the nitty gritty on this and can probably explain it better in terms of IPB frames.

The problem seems to be that, while many NLE's support advanced pulldown for other codecs like DVCPro, hardly any support the HDV codec natively at that framerate (or 50/25 for that matter).

For those reading, this is mainly an FCP/Apple issue. On windows there are software options that work fine. (Cineform, Vegas, PremierPro...)

For those reading, this is mainly an FCP/Apple issue. On windows there are software options that work fine. (Cineform, Vegas, PremierPro...)

Regarding the Apple situation, in SD if I want to shoot in 24P, which pulldown would I chose to send to the DR-HD100. Also since Quicktime 24 is an option on the DR-HD100, what happens from that point? Do the clips import into FCP in 24 FPS, or do they require pulldown?

What is the point to buying this if you don't get instant
editing abilities in 720 24p?

Can someone explain why it cannot record in 720 24p Quicktime format?

Because the 24p HDV file format doesn't exist yet. This is something that will come along with the FCP update.

Incidentally, all we speak of right now is being beta tested. Focus will have firmware updates ready either concurrently or shortly thereafter the FCP update.

Because the 24p HDV file format doesn't exist yet. This is something that will come along with the FCP update.

Incidentally, all we speak of right now is being beta tested. Focus will have firmware updates ready either concurrently or shortly thereafter the FCP update.

Do you now the answer to my question on the previous post regarding 24P in SD.

The problem I have is getting the 60FPS back to 24FPS? ... I would like to know how to extract the 24 Frames with proper audio?
When MPEG Streamclip transcodes a 24p m2t file it unfortunately turns the flags into real frames, which are then hard to extract (Cinema Tools won't do it, nor will the DVCProHD Frame rate tool). However HDVxDV (available on the web) will transcode only the 24 original frames. Unfortunately, there are some bugs with this software. Timecode is not always maintained and the clips are erroneously timed at 24fps (as opposed to 23.98) which can cause audio to drift on long takes. It does work, however with these caveats.

Incidentally, Apple Intermediate Codec appears to be very similar to DVCPro HD in terms of bitrate and color sampling, except that it supports the full 720x1280, which gives it better rez. Consider it if you don't have the drive space to transcode to uncompressed.

Regarding the Apple situation, in SD if I want to shoot in 24P, which pulldown would I chose to send to the DR-HD100.

Shoot in DV 24PA. The Firestore can only remove pulldown when it receives a 24PA stream

Also since Quicktime 24 is an option on the DR-HD100, what happens from that point? Do the clips import into FCP in 24 FPS, or do they require pulldown?

If you do the above, the files the Firestore will create will be 23.98 DV files...no further processing needed.

When MPEG Streamclip transcodes a 24p m2t file it unfortunately turns the flags into real frames,

Absolutely true. I've found though if you demux the m2t to seperate m2v and aiffs, then RELOAD those into MPEGSTREAMCLIP, a resulting transcode to DVCPRO HD will be timed at 23.98.

Just another piece of weirdness to confuse people :-)

First, thanks for answering all my questions, and second I have some more:

1) Does the DR-HD100 come with an attachment and holder for the Shoe of the HD100 handle?

2) How long does the battery last and are there replacements?

This moring I spoke to the company that makes the firestore product,
they said anyday the product wil have a software upgrade to make
HDV 720 24p Quicktimes.

This moring I spoke to the company that makes the firestore product,
they said anyday the product wil have a software upgrade to make
HDV 720 24p Quicktimes.


We still have to wait for FCP to offer an HDV 24p option though.

We still have to wait for FCP to offer an HDV 24p option though.

That should happen any day as well.

That should happen any day as well.


Like with the D-tap issue for the Firestore and IDX, I'm being unusually Zen like in my wait for the 24p solutions. My normal personality would dictate more impatience and frustration. Maybe it's about getting older, but probably because we're between major projects right now and I can afford to be laid back <g>.

Either way, compared to some waits with promised technology (we got into the HD-100 in February), having these last major hurdles passed by mid Spring is pretty much what I expected. If it happens in the coming days, then it's all good. We're all geting a little tired of logging 30p tapes when we know that editing right from 24p files is imminent.
It's a pretty big creative leap.

Regarding the Apple situation, in SD if I want to shoot in 24P, which pulldown would I chose to send to the DR-HD100. Also since Quicktime 24 is an option on the DR-HD100, what happens from that point? Do the clips import into FCP in 24 FPS, or do they require pulldown?

As far as I know you CANNOT shoot 24P in SD mode on the HD100.

Also, on the Mac (Tiger OS only) there is a little nifty software called HDVxDV for $80 which, according to the website:

HDVxDV 1.024 adds support for the JVC ProHD 24 frame per second HDV format. It allows you to capture and convert video from the new JVC GY-HD100U camera and edit in Final Cut Pro, Avid or any other editing system that supports Quicktime. HDVxDV features real time audio and video preview of native HDV video and selectable 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 color upsampling. You can export either drop-frame or non-drop frame timecode to export to Quicktime in the HDVxDV preferences. In addition, the timecode is now displayed in the timeline. When a new Quicktime movie is created, the original camera's timecode will be preserved. This version will run on Mac OS 10.4 (Tiger).

http://www.hdvxdv.com/

I haven't tried it myself, but would love to do some tests. If anybody has tried this 24P workflow -> edit in FCP let us know.

As far as I know you CANNOT shoot 24P in SD mode on the HD100.
Yes, you certainly can shoot 24P SD, just like a DVX100. You have a choice of either 24P standard or 24PA with advanced pulldown. If you are shooting with the DR-HD100 you probably want 24PA inorder to drop the pulldown on capture, but always test before assuming it works.

I think Nate already answered this earlier in this post.

I haven't tried it myself, but would love to do some tests. If anybody has tried this 24P workflow -> edit in FCP let us know.

Hi Miklos,

There are many posts about HDVxDV on this forum, just do a search. I have used it quite a bit with mixed results. Yes, it does get you editing with 24p material, but timecode rarely carries over from original and audio on the AIC transcodes drifts out of sync on long takes. Others seem to be having better results than me, however. In some ways MPEG streamclip works better and its free. No TC and still sync issues, but give it a try.