Hi Everyone,

I am filming some indoor footage on the weekend. Normally I would use my ME66 on a boom (simply because that's all I've got) and spend a fair amount of time on Pro Tools fixing the sound in post. But I've just remembered, I have access to a lot of "live" microphones. I'm not sound expert (yet!), and I was wondering if I could get your advice on which of the following would be best suited for capturing dialog and atmos (office environment, but also filming in bathrooms and kitchens with exhaust fans):

- Continue using the ME66
- Shure Beta 58A
- Shure Beta 57A
- Shure PG81

I've also got a "Behringer Eurorack MXB1002" (cheap small 8 channel fader mixer that can run off batteries) which I bought for something non-video related. I was wondering if I should use that to "mix" the audio on location, and feed the audio into my Z1P from the Eurorack?

I can't afford (at this stage) to purchase new microphones or field mixers.

What do you think?

Chris!

Shotguns like the ME66 do very poorly in reflective environments such as most indoor locations due to the colouration of sounds arriving off-axis and from rear. Using it in an extremely reflective environment like a bathroom or kitchen is going to be an absolute nightmare! I'd do a test run with the 81 and the 57 and see which you like best. The 57 and 58 have a high frequency emphasis, good for music vocal but maybe not so good for dialog, while the 81 is relatively flat with an adjustable LF rolloff that might help. In the kitchen shots can't you get them to turn off the exhaust fans, fridges, etc while you're rolling? How about renting a couple of lav mics to put on the talent?

Thanks for your reply Steve...!

I've just spent the last couple of hours scrolling back through the "Now Hear This" threads. I must say, there is so much fantastic information!

I was very suprised to hear so many negative things about the ME66. I know [first hand] how bad it is for indoor shoots, but there is so many complains about the microphone in general!

As Steve has suggested I'll give the Shure mics a test run when I get a chance and see how they work out. I'll post my results here.

Unfortunatley, the exhaust fans in the kitchen shots can not be turned off. It's a limitation of this particular venue.

Now after reading a lot of posts on this forum (and based on Steve's comments), I'm starting to think that using lapel mics might be the way to go (to record the dialog - not atmos). Even though I said I can't afford to purchase any new microphones, I'd prefer to count the 5c coins in my piggy bank and see if I can gather together enough money to purchase something that will a handy tool to keep in my kit for future projects. I've had a quick look at the "Sennheiser ew 122-p G2 Series" and the "Sony UWPC1 UHF Series". Has anyone had any experience with them? I don't have a budget yet (gotta get counting!), but it will have to be under AUD$1000 (which both the Sony and Sennheiser are).

I know this has been discussed before but I couldn't find a conclusive answer: I'm also wondering if it worth purchasing something like ME64 for indoor dialog shots seeing as I already have the K6 power supply? Is it appropriate?

I'm currently researching other indoor dialog mic alternatives (such as the AT4053 and AKG CK93). If you have a favorite, please tell (or if appropriate, post a link to the relevant thread).

Finally, should I use the ME66 for atmos? Alternatives?

Again, thanks for your advice Steve! I'm slowly learning as much as I can about audio for no-budget productions. Every bit of information you tell me helps put the jigsaw together!

Chris!

Discovered after posting:

"A definitevely comparison between Sony UWP-C1 and Sennheiser Evolution G2 ???"
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=31103

After doing some further reading, the Rode Hypercardioid NT3 (AUD$285) keeped popping up. Do you think this is a good option for INDOOR shots?

It would be really nice to NOT used my ME66 for indoor shots in future (it's a pain in the butt to make it sound half decent!).

FYI: The only reason I purchased it in the first place was because it was offered to me REALLY cheap (when I purchased a whole heap of other stuff).

Chris!

For what it's worth, I think people are way too hard on the ME66. I think one reason may be that many people have tried to make it their only mic, and as has been mentioned, it stinks indoors. The ME64 does better indoors (as you've apparently read), but if you have phantom power there are a number of other mics which are miles better for most applications. Don't know about Rode. Seems awfully heavy to put on a boom

Thanks for your reply Marco!

Yes, I agree. As I've said, I've had no problems with the ME66 outdoors, and after a LOT of work, can usually make the audio captured using the ME66 usable from indoor shots (and I'm not an audio dude by any strech of the imagination!).

So I guess my question now is, what's a good addition to my kit for indoor shots (specifically, office environments - possibly even toilets and kitchens if not using lapel)? I've read that the ME64 is "better" than the ME66, but it's maybe not the most appropriate solution (even though I already have the K6 power module). It's probably better to spend a little more and get a better quality mic that we "last" a bit longer.

I guess the weight issue makes the Rode NT3 inappropriate for booming.

Oh, and yes, I have phantom power.

I'm still interested to see if you think using the Eurorack is worth it? The only reason I'm concidering it is because I find the audio meters and volume controls on the Z1P to be annoying. What are your thoughts? I'd love to purchase a Sound Devices field mixer (MixPre, 302 or 442) - but I just don't have the money. Also, ME66 for atmos?

Chris!

Don't know the Eurotrack. I use the SD302, and have pretty much been spoiled by it. I wouldn't settle for anything less, but that's me.

I like the ME64, but if you can swing a better mic, do it. Anymore, I pretty much just use mine for sound collection and informal camera mounting, or just dinking around. The onboard power is handy. It's a fun mic.

There's really no mystery over your other mic choices (as you've no doubt read).

Lots of money? Get a CMC6 MK41 or Sennheiser MKH50.

Not quite as much money? AKG CK63 or CK61.

Not much money? AT4053 or AKG CK93.

No money? Octava from the Sound Room.

Out of all these, I only have experience with the Schoeps and the CK93, but this is pretty much the standard line.

I'm also in the camp that thinks people are generally too hard on the ME66, and I think it has been mis-used due to it's popularity. What it's good at is providing a strong signal for going direct to camera. If that's your entire sound package, then I can understand why folks wouldn't be happy. It's an entry level microphone if you are looking for professional results.

I think the ME64 capsule would be a cheap route to better indoor sound for you. Having said that, Marco's recommendations are right on target.

Thanks for your replies Marco and Ralph!

Just out of interest, where does the ME64 fit into your mic preference list ("not quite as much money", "not much money" or "no money")?

To be very specific now, what would be the BEST mic to use in a toilet cubical? Would the ME64 be a viable option? (As suggested previously, I know a lapel would be the best option - but just say I can't get hold of one).

I'm now seriously concidering, after reading a lot about audio on these forums, that I should just bite the bullet and start getting a GOOD audio kit together. I already have the ME66, boom pole (with Rycote Softie 21/22mm head), cable, etc. Now I'm starting to concider purchasing a field mixer (MixPre vs 302), a wireless lav kit and a mic better suited for indoor use. Hopefully my bank doesn't read this post.

FYI: The Eurorack is just a cheap'n'nasty Behringeer mixer. I use it at home so I can connect two music keyboards into the one amp.

Chris!

I can't comment on the other microphones, but I got the ME64 for indoor dialog when I found ME66 not suitable for indoor use. I am very happy with the ME64, much better in reflective rooms than the ME66. Consider that you not only already own the K6 powering module but also already have the correct size softie for the ME64.

I didnt see your last post. A directional mic will be a disaster in a toliet stall. You need to use an omni such as a lapel mic (even a really cheap one) or better yet, record the sound somewhere else under better conditions and get create with the editing.

Thanks for your replies Bill!

I am going to have a look at the ME64 for INDOOR shoots.

Have you ever used the ME62 Omni-Directional Mic? Would that be suitable for toilets, bathrooms, etc.? (And yes, I know a lapel would be much more appropriate.)

I also found out today that the ATW portable radio mic systems do not meet Australian standards, so you can't buy them here [yet]. I guess I better continue to research Sony vs Sennheiser! Any other alternatives?

Chris!

"Just out of interest, where does the ME64 fit into your mic preference list ("not quite as much money", "not much money" or "no money")?"

If you have phantom power, it doesn't make the list, at least not for me. But since you already have the K6 power module, it's only another $155 for the ME64 cap. I don't think you'll find a better mic for your purposes in that price range.

For that bathroom cubicle, this is the sort of tough environment where the Schoeps really shines. You'll still get echo, but the viewer would expect it to be there -- it is a bathroom after all. You might try covering the floor of the whole bathroom with blankets and hanging them in front of every wall outside the stall. It's hard to know with blankets. Sometimes a couple help a lot, and sometimes a whole bunch do squat.

Thanks for your reply Marco.

For those who might be interested, I did some researching on pricing. All prices in Australian dollars.

Sennheiser MKH50: $2190.00
AKG CK63: $974.00 (with power supply)
AKG CK61: $974.00 (with power supply)
AT4053: $650.00
AKG CK93: $558.00 (with power supply)

ME64: $329 (capsule only)

I couldn't find anyone here who sells the CMC6 MK41.

At this stage, I'm seriously concidering the ME64 as I already have the K6 and also a wireless lapel (still comparing Sony to Sennheiser). I have two old Shure L4 rackmount units (with lapel transmitters) at home - but it's too much trouble carting them around! I'm seriously concidering the Sony UWPC1 UHF Wireless Lapel Mic System OR Sennheiser ew 112-p G2 Wireless Lapel Mic System. Still not sure which is the better of the two.

Macro what do you think is the better option: purchase the ME64 (as I already have the K6) and a wireless lapel system OR purchase one of your recommened mics (under $1000) and NOT purchase a lapel system. Let's assume my budget is under $1000.

Again, thank you all for your continued help and support! I really appreciate it!

Chris!

Hard to say. I don't own any wireless, but it's getting to be a damned nuisance. Still, a good hypercardiod is something you will use on almost every shoot. On the other hand, ME64 is pretty decent for most indoor situations (assuming you can get it close enough).

The only thing is too seriously think about how badly you need wireless. If it's critical for this shoot, you have your answer. Can you shoot with wired lavs instead? Generally speaking, I find it's best to do without a certain piece of gear if necessary and concentrate on buying top quality.

Good thread - enjoying reading it.

I agree with Marco in that since you already have the ME66/K6 it kinda makes sense to get the ME64 as you already have the K6 power and you've got the windshield too. I've heard from many people that ME64 sounds really pretty good indoors.
Are you sure the best price in Oz is AUD329 ?! Seems a big stretch from B&H price of USD155 which at current x-rates = about AUD201.

I think the NT3 is a nice mic too (you can hear it in a studio at http://dvestore.com/theatre/index.html in the 'Shotgun Shootout') but again, taking a random dealer in Sydeny (just down the road from where they're made in a Sydney suburb) it's priced at AUD405 !! In the UK you can get this exact mic for GBP88 = AUD212 ! Seems ironic that it's made in Sydney and shipped to the other side of the world and despite that it's half the price you can buy it for in Sydney..

Thanks for your replies Marco & Stu...

To be honest, I'm not sure how badly I need the wireless! Take this situation for example. Say I'm filming in an office just out of the city. It's next to a freeway - so you can hear the traffic zipping by. Even though I can empty the office of people, there will still be fan noise, electronic buzzes, etc. which I CANNOT control. Need to capture dialog. Would it be best to use a ME64 on a boom or a wireless lapel? I can't get away with a wired lav as the person will be walking around.

I also agree with Marco when he says "it's best to do without a certain piece of gear if necessary and concentrate on buying top quality gear". I hate owning crap and wasting money on gear that only has a limited life. That said, if the ME64 will do the job then maybe that's the best option?

I guess at the end of the day you just want to achieve audio that's "broadcast/film quality". Could an EXPERT audio tech achieve this quality with an ME64? If they can't then I guess it's better to buy something a little better. If they can, even if it takes a little bit more effort and patience, then I guess it'll do the job - I'll just have to work harder!

In regards to the NT3, I kinda came to the conclusion earlier in this thread that is was too heavy to boom. Was I wrong? It's cheaper than the ME64, so how does it compare up against it?

I'm not sure why the pricing is so different comparing down under to the US! I'm only guessing here, but maybe it's because our population is smaller, thus there are less people in our video industry, therefore there is less demand for this kind of gear and that's why the prices are higher. Kinda makes sense?

Thanks for the link Stu. Going to have a look and listen now...

Chris!

After reading a lot of threads and websites on the "Rode NT3" I decided to buy one today. I don't think it's that heavy, and I'm very confident it will work fine on a boom.

I am going to give it a "test drive" over the next week or so and see if it lives up to its reputation. Even if it turns out to not be the world best INDOOR boom mic I still think it's a handy mic to have in my kit.

I am still concidering the ME64 and Sony/Sennheisser lapel systems.

I'm also REALLY interested in the AT4053. I haven't had a chance to "play" with it in person yet.

Has anyone used the MKH416 for INDOOR shoots? I just found out I have free access to one.

Chris!

Chris, give a visit to Ty Ford's website and give a listen to his mic comparison clips. One includes the 416 indoors

Thanks for your reply Steve. Yeah, Ty's website is on my "to-do list". I'm on dial-up at the moment, so it takes AGES to download movies/sounds. I have had a listen to some of the files though. Very useful resource! Thanks Ty for making it availible to us...!

Chris!

I got a chance to "play" with my new Rode NT3 this weekend on a friends short film shoot. For an indoor scene, I was actually really impressed with the microphone. It sounded very good! I was using it on a boom; despite what some people have said, it is NOT HEAVY at all.

Now, I'm no audio wizz, but I've been lucky enough to play with some really expensive highend microphone overs the years (and more importantly watch and learn from some very experienced and highly regarded techs using all kinds of cool toys). The NT3, in my opinion, seems like it could quite comfortably compete with some of the really expensive Sennheiser, AT, etc. mics. For recording dialog in a controlled environment INDOORS, the mic does the job quite nicely. When you take the price into concideration as well, it's a great microphone.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. I'm sure the real audio gods on this forum (Ty Ford springs to mind) will have a slightly different opinion!

No pressure gradient shotgun will perform well indoors. Multi capsule shotguns are a different matter. Sanken make several and I think Neumann have one for around $5K US, the Sankens are much cheaper (around half that) but not affordable for most of us although I'm blessed with having free use of a CSS 5, the mic used to record the web sounds for Spiderman.

All that aside though, avoid all the angst over which mic and focus on where any mic is used. A $5 mic close to the sound source will outperform a $500 farther from the sound source. Therefore even a cheap lapel will do better than an expensive shotgun far from the sound source in a reverberant room.

If you can cope with having leads running to the talent then you can avoid the added cost of wireless, I recently saw a cheap simple solution for this, lapel mic that plugs into small preamp to be worn by the talent which then feeds line level to the camera. Sorry I don't remember the manufacturer but it was bought in Oz, might have been a Senheiser unit, it was cheap enough for the not wealthy shooter to have banging around in the kit bag.

The other type of mic worth a look at are boundary mics, I have a cheapy from Samson and it can do wonders, thinking seriously of getting a more expensive Crown or AKG, these seem to be the sleeper mics that can do the seemingly impossible.