This is my first post, but I have been following the unfolding story that has accompanied the hd100. From the split screen to good reviews, the mass recall and refurbishing. Objectively to me it seems peculiar that jvc would release new editions of the hd100 hybrid so soon. It seemed like yesterday a rep from JVC was on here touting how the HD100 was a mature product and that there was no plans to upgrade, or expand the line. Given, all companies will always release new products on an ongoing basis, but in this particular instance I don't know if I can take the plunge and buy a product from a company who's track record needs improvement when it comes to being upfront and honest with it's users about the technologies shortcomings. Statistically I gauge that owner satisfaction with the HD100 is generally high, but given that I am still reading posts on the existence of the sse, I am going to wait and see if this is a kink that JVC has worked out with the hd200 and hd250 before outfitting my production house with them. There hasn't been any word that it has been corrected, but if anyone hears any differently, please post the news and keep us in the loop.

Carl Hicks from JVC recently gave a definitive statement on the SSE, paraphrasing he said with proper calibration the sse is a non issue. he said if you have sse, send it in.

I suppose the big question is whether or not JVC will pre-calibrate the cameras before they hit the streets, or will owners be required to send the units far and away to be calibrated properly. I'd like to hear from JVC on this.

I suppose the big question is whether or not JVC will pre-calibrate the cameras before they hit the streets, or will owners be required to send the units far and away to be calibrated properly. I'd like to hear from JVC on this.

Hi Tom,

JVC issued an official statement about this a few months ago. Here is the link:

http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/faq.jsp?model_id=MDL101539&feature_id=13#chips

Over 12,000 of these cameras are in use today. A small percentage of those cameras have needed the SSE calibration touched up after being manufactured and shipped.

Your local reseller and local JVC Pro representative can help you work through any issues you need help with.

We also stand behind our product with a 30 Day failure policy and a 1 year parts & labor warranty.

Regards, Carl

Objectively to me it seems peculiar that jvc would release new editions of the hd100 hybrid so soon.

SOOOOON! After seeing the HD200 it seems like next October (hopefully) is a very long time to wait.

I expect -- during the development phase of a new format -- to see new cameras every NAB. And, certainly a replacement camera every two years -- if not 18 months.

The reality is that those of us who prefer 60p would be very, very unhappy not to have learned we would be getting the HD200 in 6 months.

Those shooting HD news or building HD studios need the HD250 ASAP.

JVC should delay products so you don't think it "peculiar?" Give me a break!

I'd have to agree that redesigning to add 60p rather than redesigning to address ALL SSF was a completely understandable decision. I do know that there are many other people like me however (event videographers), that even if we had the money (and many do, unlike me this year), won't buy these cameras because of SSF, even if JVC consider it a non issue. Unfortunately for JVC, it is what we believe that determines what we spend our money on not what JVC believe.

If they now start the process of the design of their next generation camera (or at least once the HD200/250 are complete) I'm sure one thing they will ensure is that there is absolutely no stigma of SSF associated with the new camera. I'll be a stunned mullet if this problem extends into the next generation model, and promptly buy a Sony or Panasonic.

This is definitely one case where it doesn't matter any more if the problem is prominent or even only rare. The damage has been done to the reputation and that cat just won't be getting back into its bag, so while there may be 12,000 sold, maybe there would be 24,000 sold if the SSF had never existed.

Statistically I gauge that owner satisfaction with the HD100 is generally high, but given that I am still reading posts on the existence of the sse, I am going to wait and see if this is a kink that JVC has worked out with the hd200 and hd250 before outfitting my production house with them.

The best info we have right now suggests that the chips on the two new cameras will be the same as the ones in the HD100. It's the MPEG codec that's going to be upgraded as far as internals are concerned.

Occasional SSE is a design tradeoff that the engineers made in order to allow the HD100 to scan every pixel of a truly native 720p image with 1/3" chips. Most people have no issues at all with SSE. I demoed one of the early units (from September of 2005) from my local dealer for over a month, and never had a problem. I torture tested the heck out of the thing and never saw any SSE. I purchased my own HD100 a month ago, and have been shooting on it almost daily- again, without a single incident of SSE.

You should bear in mind that for every person who posts here about SSE issues, there are likely hundreds who haven't had any at all- the main difference between the two groups is that the people who haven't had any issues are much less likely to sound off than the people who are.

The best info we have right now suggests that the chips on the two new cameras will be the same as the ones in the HD100. It's the MPEG codec that's going to be upgraded as far as internals are concerned.

Occasional SSE is a design tradeoff that the engineers made in order to allow the HD100 to scan every pixel of a truly native 720p image with 1/3" chips. Most people have no issues at all with SSE. I demoed one of the early units (from September of 2005) from my local dealer for over a month, and never had a problem. I torture tested the heck out of the thing and never saw any SSE. I purchased my own HD100 a month ago, and have been shooting on it almost daily- again, without a single incident of SSE.

You should bear in mind that for every person who posts here about SSE issues, there are likely hundreds who haven't had any at all- the main difference between the two groups is that the people who haven't had any issues are much less likely to sound off than the people who are.

Thank you Jake for your words of reason!

When the HD-100 first came out last year I was sitting on the fence reading all the reports, and all the posts that I could find on the HD-100 ,and Sony HD Cameras. I would download as many clips of any type of footage that was available on the net and looked at them on my HDTV through the computer, and I found I just loved the look of what the JVC HD-100 put out. The Sony seemed to have at the time too many clips showing full screen Lens Flares caused by anything bright in the picture, so I dismissed the Sony FX-1 and Z-1 as a choice of camera for me, as I do alot of events where theres not much control over the settings. I looked at some JVC HD-100 footage of cars going by with the lights on and the Lens Flares seemed to be alot less. I was just about to buy the JVC HD-100 when the first reports of the split screen came out, and this kind of problem gave me a scare, and I ended up buying a Panasonic DVX-100A.

Being new to video, I based my purchase of the DVX -100A on the opinions of others on these sites. But I found that I always felt I had made the wrong choice for me, when I did buy the Panasonic DVX-100A, rather then the JVC HD-100 because I like the HD look. The DVX-100A does a great job for the money in SD, but I still wanted HD. Several months go by and I still want an HD camera, but now I feel I know more about the product choices, and now the Canon H1 and Pansonic HVX200 are out.

This time around I followed a different approach on making a choice of which HD camera to buy. First purchase price of the camera itself and then the cost of storage and editing choices. For me, my choice came back to the JVC HD -100, I like the shoulder mount, the lens choices, the tape backup, and I like what I see on the big screen. I almost changed my mind again when I saw reports of the SSE issue come out again, but I still took the plunge and bought the JVC HD -100. The funny thing is, my new JVC HD - 100 camera works just the way I hoped it would, no issues period. The footage I now get is amazing for me, and anything wrong with the footage is directly related to my inexperience and talent. I bought my camera 3 weeks ago, and the new reports this week from NAB of the new HD-200 and HD-250 ( sure 60P would be nice) makes me wonder on how I might be able to swing getting another camera when they become available.

So my only advice to you is, do the research for yourself to find the right camera that suits your needs, all the current lower cost choices of HD cameras have there good and bad points. I think the JVC HD-100 SSE issue has been addressed, and should you be unlucky to get a camera with it, it will get fixed. If you check all the camera Forums you will find that all the current crop of cameras all have problems that do come out, it just seems the problems become and stay too long the main topic, that just seems to make you change your mind alot on which camera to choose. But while your on the fence, I will be out there with my new JVC HD - 100 with a big smile on my face. Have a good day!

Hear Hear. Well said Doug. I haven't had an SSE problem at all. When I ordered my HD 100 back in late January I saw the Canon HDV 1080i, the Z1, and even the HVX 200

I was able to talk to reps, see demos, touch the cameras.

Without getting into my opinions about each, because they all have their merits and short falls) I based my decision on what I would get in terms of return on investment. And for the look, the fact that this was not a "pixel shifted" CCD camera (1280x720p square pixel from the get go) and it looked very filmic to me.

Bottom line is ROI and after 6 projects (3 in dv24pa and 3 in HDV 30p), the camera has already saved me $3000 in camera rental in 3 months, therefore at this rate the camera will pay for itself in under 6 months. That is unheard of in the professional camera world of of the recent past where it could take 18 to 36 months to have a camera payoff. Oh and also at less than $6k I was able to pay cash.

Also cost of recording media, tapes that cost less than $10.00. Compared to P2 cards, well there is no comparison.

So there are always work arounds and problems in any production/workflow/camera system. After 20 years and 1000 productions, Murphy's law still applies. The first cameras I encountered in 1985 (Ikegami 730a and Sony M1a where terrible compared to the JVC.(Not even fair comparison). And I made money back then as well.

I think you guys clearly missed the point of my post. Maybe I should just take Kens Freed's approach and claim you couldn't understand it unless I was able to see your eyes....

The point is, for many, the damage is done. Reputation is everything and while it takes one minute to spoil, it takes months or years to regenerate. Thats the flip side to marketing any company like JVC have to live with. The only way to make good is a new model with perfect performance. JVC isn't exactly a leading brand in Australia anyway, they can't avoid such negative press at all if they want a higher market share.

The second hand HD100/200/250 market in a few years will be well down on what it could be due to the models reputations for problems. It all a factor when deciding where to invest your money. Resale value is often a consideration.

Having said that, if I had to buy a semi-Pro HD camera now it would probably still be a HD101 becuase there is so much else to like about it, but only if I had too buy a HD camera because I know with my luck I will end up being plauged with SSF no questions asked ;-( JVC service in Australia has let me down before and I really don't want to be in a position where I would be so dependant on them. Even before the HD100 was released and we had this perfect camera on paper, most videographer collegues I was raving to about what a great camera it would be closed their discussions with final comments like "but its still a JVC camera". These are guys who have been in the industry for 20+ years. Remember that was not my opinions, but theirs.

I'm sorry Guy but I think that you missed my Point!

I would say that I'm a more knowledgeable person now, then I was last year when I first started reading the information on these forums. I pointed out that I bought the DVX-100A based mostly on information that I could find out on these forums. I did not buy the JVC HD -100 at the same time based on the problems of SSE that seemed to be the hot discussion topic. These Forums bring ideas, and insight from almost everywhere in the world and that it helps users and new buyers make decisions on what to buy, or how to set up and get the most out of these cameras.

I can't speak for your experiences with JVC, but for me the impression I get from JVC in North America is that they are trying to get a great product out to the public as fast as they can. Sure maybe JVC had early production quality issues, but JVC went to alot of time and expense to correct these issues. As for how many people with a HD-100 had SSE well, we will never really know. All I can say is that if you check out every forum, there are issues, problems that seem to come up and stay the hot topic for discussion for ages.

Most new people try to gauge the value of products from people who are using the product, which I could not tell the difference between Actual Users and Non Users when I made my first decision. I took a different approach when finally making the plunge to get a HD camera but still choose the JVC HD-100, based more on my actual impressions and observations of the camera. I don't feel I have made the wrong decision this time.

I do have an "A" version, I do events, under all kinds of lighting conditions, have used 12db gain on some occasions for over 30 minutes, have started recording many times with no warm up to conserve battery power, still no SSE. I am a happy JVC HD-100 owner.

the mass recall and refurbishing. I am going to wait and see if this is a kink that JVC has worked out with the hd200 and hd250 before outfitting my production house with them. .


First of all there wan't any mass recall. Mis-information sucks.
Waiting is, of course, always an option for anyone and anything. However, you're taking with a bunch of people who are pretty much universally digging this camera and producing with it. If there were somehow problems that prevented us from doing the level of work we all expect with an HD camera, there would be an drumbeat of discontent on this board.
There isn't.

The second hand HD100/200/250 market in a few years will be well down on what it could be due to the models reputations for problems.



I don't get this.
What reputation for problems?
The obvious and over reaching issue regarding this camera is that it has been hailed in virtually every independent comparison that I'm aware of, as the best over all choice of the new HD models.
The SSE "issue" has been shown over and over to be abberant and a virtual non-issue for the vast majority of users.
If this camera has so many problems, how come almost all the discussion here - the primary web HD100 users group, has so few complaints day to day, and so much regualr discussion of it's strengths as a creative tool?

the primary web HD100 users group, has so few complaints day to day, and so much regualr discussion of it's strengths as a creative tool?

Agreed!

After waiting through (and checking out) a lot of the sub 10K cameras over the last year, I decided on the HD100.

If it was not capable of producing awesome footage, I would of sold it as quickly as possible.

I'm blown away on the footage this camera is capable of.
I'm really impressed what JVC is doing for this market.
The upcoming HD200 and HD250 will be hot cameras.
I'm thinking about the HD200, although the HD250 would be good to capture
4:2:2 via SDI.

I want to pipe in with my opinion on JVC and it's support of the HD100.

I used to work at a TV network that used Sony gear. We had problems with everyone of our DSR-50 studio cameras. We would call Sony and they wouldn't offer any support options. We kept sending them in for repair at the local shop, and still the problems kept coming back. After a year of asking for help, Sony finally sent an engineer out from New Jersey and he was able to find the problem and resolve it. We are talking about a small TV shop that dropped over $500K into buying new Sony gear.

Now look at the support that JVC has provided to people that have bought a $5K camera. Big difference. It's one of the reasons that I purchase an HD100 when I recently upgraded my camera.

In fact I had an issue with the camera when I received it from the dealer and the next day I had a call from Carl Hicks and we were able to resolve the problem. Now that's support!!!

I wouldn't let the fact that a few cameras had some issues keep you from buying the camera. When there have been issues, JVC has risen to the occasion and solved the problem. I would rather deal with a company that is willing to fix things than one that keeps it's head buried in the sand.

Just my $0.02.

Dan Weber

In my experience there is no such thing as a completely mature and perfect product. That is why support is important and ROI. Because there will always be something else new around the corner. I'v worked with Sony, Panasonic, Avid, and now JVC. And with JVC so far it has been a great experience. My first Avid Media Composer cost $85,000. I had to get an SBA loan and more than 3 years to pay for it. And the nightmare of non linear online in 1993 required me to pay an extra $5000 in support fees/year.

This JVC Camera represents (along with other technologies a new way to look at suppport and ROI.)

Life is good, be creative, make a living doing what you enjoy. Dig it. This camera empowers that.

My first HD gig was with a 3:1:1 camera. The Sony f900 HD CAM. The guy I rented it from at the time paid $125,000 for it. The color was very muted and required a lot of color correction. The client was thrilled. My current clients that I use the HD 100 for productions are thrilled. My clients are the ultimate judge.

In my opinion, this camera looks better in 24p as the HD CAM F900 circa 2004.

Enough SSE crap.

Once a camera model (or manufacturer for that matter) has a reputation for a problem which the HD100 got with SSF over its first few months of release it is too late. Unless you know how to track technical aspects such as forums, A model release/repairs etc then you will always see this model as problematic, and if it can be avoided it should. Its human nature. I know it is problems like this that has stopped at least one major rental house in Australia from getting any HD101s into stock, they went HVX200 instead. I still told them I thought they were going the wrong way but clearly Panasonics marketing to them has been superiour.

Of the 12,000 owners of the HD100, how many do you think actually visit this site, let alone know this forum even exists? Maybe 10%? Now what about the global videographer market? Far far less! So most will not be in here to learn so many like you guys have such few or no issues? Then again I am in here and see enough recuring people still with SSF occuring even after calibration that it continues to concern me enough to avoid a purchase unless absolutely nessesary.

Just my opinion of course, and opinions are like armpits they say, everyone has one and often they stick.

I deleted the last two posts because we don't want this to go down that path.

Guy. Your points are valid, but we should try to avoid speculating on the consumer impact of negative feedback that cannot be quantified or verified. Your example of the rental house in Australia is a good one, but does not represent an equal impact on all rental houses.

All of the HD cameras in this price range have competed against each other for months, and they all have their pros and cons. The bottom line is that they all produce incredible pictures and I hope that every potential purchaser does as much research as you have to buy the right camera for the job.

Guy, this is really starting to sound like a broken record. You've belabored your point over and over, and so far, at least at this site..everyone who actually owns the camera disagrees with you. You are entitled to your opinion, but you going to have to accept the fact that you are wrong.

I waited awhile to purchase this camera myself, and my decision was made not only on the cameras features, but JVCs' commitment to it. I've been around long enough to tell you about some really bad product put out by Sony, RCA,Hitachi and others that never got fixed. Lots of exucuses, but never fixed.
I'm not assuming you haven't got your own stories to tell.

You've done nothing but disrepect JVC either directly or by what many call 'damning with faint praise'. ie great features, but it's a JVC....


The negative 'reputation' issue with the camera has been laregely reversed by word being spread around by those who own and use it. Word of mouth has done what no multi million dollar ad campaign could do. At NAB the opinons of EVERY one I met about this cam was positive, even those who've never heard of dvinfo.net or any other sites. I noticed that non HD-100 users at other sites are the only remaining hardcore skeptics, and much of what they say is pure uninformed BS.

So Guy, is there some sort or lingering anger at JVC over past issues? I'm truly sorry if JVC Australia has problems because users deserve good support no matter where they live.
But you seem to be beating a dead horse when it comes to this camera. Are you saying you can't even rent an HD-100 to try it out for yourself? Sorry to hear that if it's true. It might settle all your questions and give you closure.

Or maybe you should just move on to another brand? Your call, but you seem awfully dissatisfied with JVC in general. Fortunately there are plenty of great options out there for you. Don't worry, we'll be fine.

Hi Joe.

My own experiences (as an HD101E owner) with JVC Australia have been excellent. Dominic (local JVC rep) and Noel (from Sydney head office) have been terrific and are very service-oriented. They really believe in this camera and have shown 100% commitment to it and any service issues. I totally agree with you about the importance of that aspect.

Thank you Jake for your words of reason!

Yes- thankfully I was able to inject some reason into this discussion before it got out of hand...

Except, not so much...

Mention SSE in the HD100 forum, or pixel shifting or "true progressive" at the H1 forums and you're gonna get a lot of people mad at you. It appears from official statements and opinions of some really smart people here that the extent of SSE is determined by how skilled the technician is. Unfortunately, when the SSE postings first appeared nobody could or would say exactly how it was caused or whether it could be fixed. I think many people who saw one, made the assumption that every other model produced identical results. So, if someone saw one with SSE at 0 db, he couldn't understand how some other guy in another country could be so stupid not to notice it on their model. The problem was they were both right, given their limited information.

Its obvious now that JVC was working hard on this and some of the other major complaints (battery life, better lenses, etc...) However, I agree with Guy's comments that the HD100 would probably have been a runaway hit from the get go if someone had done better QC in the beginning. I had sworn off the HD100, but the HD200 looks like it has potential.

I agree that the JVC intially lost some sales due to SSE.

Also, I also agree that Panasonic lost SOME sales on the HVX200 (I'm one of them) due to noise levels and Canon H1 lost SOME sales due to their 24F opposed to 24P.

With all of these cameras you have to decide what you're willing to live with.
Fortunately, after listening to great resources on this JVC forum, I decided I needed to try the HD100.

Well that's all that took!
I don't have SSE unless I'm using more than 6dB gain. Even then, it's hard to make it show. Well, since I do not use gain, SSE will never be a problem to me. If it arrises over time, I'll send it back to get calibrated.

This is a very workable solution. It beats not having a workable solution.

I've noticed one thing - There are plenty of us HD100 owners who have no problems posting problems about the cameras we own. Why do we do it? Probably because we are professionals and we know that if we ever want anything fixed, improved, addresed, etc. we need to make these problems known.

I don't want to suggest that the users of other cameras on other forums are not professionals but I notice that they tend to post how wonderful and perfect their cameras are and tear apart anyone that questions this. Why people defend their brand to the death is beyond me.

The HD100 is a great camera, plenty of shoot outs and tests have been done by working professionals to prove this. The fact that there are two processors to split the workload of delivering true 1280x720 makes sense to me. Does this mean that some care needs to be taken when shooting in extreme conditions? Sure. This camera pulls more resolution from its chip than a 70K + Varicam. Think about it folks. This camera also feels and works like the 25K, 50K and 100K cameras. Shoulder mount, buttons in the right place, etc.

For people like GUY - there will come a time where you will post information you "heard from the grapevine" that will just be flat out wrong. You will end up looking like an idiot and nothing positive will come from it. So why do it in the first place? I have no problem with someone posting an opion based on first hand experience, but when you can't verify something yourself and you don't even own the camera you are posting about what good does your "opinon" do?

P.S. About SSE and GAIN. If you are using more than 6db in gain why do you even care about the SSE effect? First you have to really look for it to see it in the first place but your bigger problem might be that grain floating all around your image from using way too much gain. That is your real problem.

but your bigger problem might be that grain floating all around your image from using way too much gain. That is your real problem.

Hence, why I mentioned I don't use gain.

Exactly. Just mentioned it to clarify for the SSE misinformation addicts.

Hence, why I mentioned I don't use gain.

Hasn't overreliance and misuse of gain been an issue since tube cameras in the early 80's?. Steve and Tim said it right. Unless your shooting "Cops" or event related footage, don't rely on gain.

Cheers for sanity and common sense.

Thanks to all who gave their input on this thread -- but due to the personal nature of several recent replies, this topic is very much done for now. For the individual who felt he was misunderstood and "crucified" here, my advice is, become an effective communicator and it's less likely you'll be misunderstood.

My apologies to Joe Carney -- for Joe, I appreciated your replies but we have to keep things technical and to the point. I'm sorry that a couple of yours were culled as well. It was great to finally meet you in Vegas this week.