Strange, I ordered mine last week with no problems.

Does anyone have any news concerning this? B&H is still out of stock. It's odd that no one is very concerned anymore. This camera is the XL-1 of HDV in my opinion.

Any slivers of information about a possible replacement out there?

This camera is the XL-1 of HDV in my opinion.I disagree. This camera is the VX1000 of HDV in my opinion.

All camcorders are replaced sooner or later.

Does anyone have any news concerning this? B&H is still out of stock. It's odd that no one is very concerned anymore. This camera is the XL-1 of HDV in my opinion.

Any slivers of information about a possible replacement out there?
I got my cam last Wendsday. The website said they were out of stock when I looked too but I called and they said they had a few in.

Does anyone have any news concerning this? B&H is still out of stock. It's odd that no one is very concerned anymore. This camera is the XL-1 of HDV in my opinion.

Any slivers of information about a possible replacement out there?

I'm not really concerned because I know I will be satisfied with this model for years. Your camera won't be out dated if Sony releases a newer model tommorow, however, I do think they would be pushing too fast if they did. Having the latest gear is always fun but the truth is everything gets replaced eventually...

Does anyone have any news concerning this? B&H is still out of stock. It's odd that no one is very concerned anymore.

Seems to me that we're just looking at a very popular model camera and Sony is having a hard time keeping up with demand. There really isn't anything comparable at this price point, is there? Why would Sony replace a product that's selling so well less than two years after its introduction?

Maybe not replace but update it.There would be nothing wrong with that.

I imagine that upgrading to the "FX2" would allow them to provide a "real" 30p, and maybe even a 24p.

And there are a couple of features on the Z1 that the FX2 could implement and still not compete with the Z1 (Z2?), like the ability to see in the LCD what the camera is actually recording.

I don't expect anything new for quite some time. Maybe at the two-year mark? Maybe for the next NAB? That would be sufficient time in between models, I think.

And there are a couple of features on the Z1 that the FX2 could implement and still not compete with the Z1 (Z2?), like the ability to see in the LCD what the camera is actually recording.



Now there's a novel concept I could live with!

JayH

Why would Sony replace a product that's selling so well less than two years after its introduction?Yes fair point Boyd ....but...thats more or less exactly what a lot of people said when the HC1 was rumored to be discontinued! Strong model, big sales success and Sony canned it. And it *was* discontinued :

http://www.ecat.sony.co.jp/tourist/another/cate01.cfm?ST=1&B3=386&PG=1&VC=1&LG=1&B2=85

All discontinued models on that Sony list have "The completion of production" written next to them. - Check HC1.

That's not necessarily to say that the FX1 is definitely going the same way, but it wouldn't surprise me. Promotes sales of Z1 somewhat, (and maybe A1 somewhat too but to a much lesser extent) and makes a gap in Sony's consumre range for some other potential new model.

Well time will tell. Around two years ago several people posted threads that the VX-2100 was discontinued, but it is still selling. In fact, one person cited that same "ecat" website as evidence that the camera was out of production.

You could be right, but my bet is that the FX1 will be with us for awhile to come...

Hmm, intesreting thread. I cam over to look and see if there was any basis behind a rumor the the FX1 had been discontinued. That is what someone I know was told by a Sony Center Dealer 2 days ago. I ahve no idea if this is true or not, we all know how well informed dealers are!

Intesresting...


- Mikko ... throws on some mroe fuel.

So, how will this mystery get solved? Historically speaking, when Sony has discontinued other camcorders, have they come out with a relacement in a certain amount of time thereafter; intro'd a new version at a specific show?

I'm ready to buy my HD camera (that I would like to last me 2-3 years) and the FX-1 was the only prosumer in my price-range. If there's an FX-2 (or whatever) a couple of weeks/months around the corner, I'd hate to make a purchase now without seeing it. At the same time, if a new FX is more consumerish, and I need to get a Z1 to satisfy my needs, I need to start saving...

I know this is all speculation at this point, but how could we get down to the facts and find out the reason behind the shortage and the price hops? Could just be production scheduling problem at Sony for all we know...

Well I don't think Sony would discontinue the FX1 until after they announced a replacement. At least that was the case with the VX-2000/VX-2100 and PD-150/PD-170.

wait a few weeks. It seems like something will come out.

I don't belive that Bob is correct. It is entirely possible, but I consider it unlikely. A few months maybe. But not a few weeks.

In my opinion, you should buy what is available now. Don't wait. Why? Because there is always something coming out soon, in a few weeks, next month, from some company or another. Always. In the meantime, you will miss how many shots? How many opportunities will be wasted?

Just my opinion of course.

sorry I meant to say maybe some info in the FX1 will come out. If it's been discontinued or not. Plus maybe in a few weeks some word on a new camera might come out.

Sony has to be applauded for offering their flagship models, within class, as a cut down variant to consumers. No other manufacturer does this and long may it continue if only for a limited period. Considering I purchased an FX1E plus HC1E for less than the cost of one Z1E I guess the accounting gurus have drawn the line.

The HC1 and FX1 may be discontinued to bolster Z1 sales but remember these cameras will survive as long as miniDV tape survives which is good enough for several more years to come.

Nevertheless Sony still own the A to Z of HDV

I mentioned all this speculation about the FX1 to a couple of Sony representatives at yesterday.
They told me there were no plans to discontinue production of either the FX1 or the Z1.
When Sony brings out a new Pro or Prosumer product it has a minimum expected production life of 4 years.
They pointed out that cameras like the FX1 and Z1 share the same CCD units. The CCDs roll of the production lines in numbers that will pay for their development and give a profit too - those CCDs must be sold before new developed image sensors are ready to be built into a new camera...... Stopping the FX1 to push the Z1 would do nothing to help sell the CCDs that they both share.
If there is any manipulation of the market going on - it is certainly not over here in Japan......production is still going ahead as usual.

Interesting report thanks Douglas.

There do seem to be conflicting reports about the FX1 situ with several people saying that they have heard Sony people/sales people/reps say that it is no longer in production, yet other Sony people say it is. THey cna't both be right !

This reminds me a little about the HC1 discontinuation thread a few months ago where a long-time & respected member of the board reported:
"If the HC1 is discontinued, it's news to the folks at Sony in Canada and San Diego. I've just spent 4 days with those sales teams, and they all laughed when I showed them this thread. So...maybe there is a source higher than the HDV product manager that hasn't told his people that their product is discontinued? Could happen, but about as unlikely as pigs flying. "

I don't wish to be unkind to anyone, but clearly pigs do actually fly. - as the HC1 was discontinued around that time and sales stocks have just been running out since. The message here is that just because someone has been around a long time etc and know a lot of poeple doesn't mean that they always have the right facts.

Who knows what the story with the FX1 is, but it's my opinion that the rumours that it is at it's end are true. Others may have a different view.

Maybe they will continue but upgrade a few things. They can keep the same CCD's.

wait a few weeks. It seems like something will come out.
Even if there was an announcement in a few weeks, it would still be several months before the new camera was released.

again I meant maybe some info about the FX1 being discontinued.

No problems with the availability of both FX1 and HC1 here in Europe. Both cameras are ready for delivery from dozens of shops and prices have basically been stable for many months (not counting the usual ups and downs).

I spoke with Ryan at EVS this morning (EVS is also out of stock), and he said that he didn't know anything about the FX1 being discontinued. He said the reason they don't list it on their site, and have stopped carrying it, is because it wasn't selling. He went on to say that they even had a couple of returns on the camera from people who didn't like it; their reasons being no timecode generation and no XLR inputs. He said that for professional use, the Z1 is just a much better camera, and people are now demanding that. He did offer to look into ordering one for me, but "no promises".

Now, this could very well be EVS's experience with selling the FX1, but when I was looking to buy an HD camera, just about every person on this board recommended the FX1 over the Z1 because it was a better value with close to Z1-par performance.

I just find it very coincidental that one store's poor-opinion, of what seems to be a very popular camera, is coinciding with an industry-wide (at least in the US) shortage (and price increase for those that have remaining stock). Maybe the dealers can't say anything, but to me, it sounds like their's more to this story...

I would like to see one of Sony $500 rebates on the Z1.

I would like to see one of Sony $5000 rebates on the Z1.

;-)

that would be cash back here......I'd buy two!

I'm looking into buying another Z1 but with the FX1 being discontinued, I'm curious if there is something new coming out soon. Does anyone have info about a new camera or format that might be released soon?

1080P HDV cam with a Fisher Price kids microphone??

Gene, there is NO replacement camera for the Z1 due out in the next 12 months or more.

Contrary to popular beliefs on this forum, the FX1 has NOT been discontinued either.

I live, not only in Japan, but in the heart of Sony territory.
Here in Kumamoto are 2 very large Sony factories mainly turning out Bravia TVs.

My dealer has regular meetings with Sony technical staff and even plays golf with some of them.

I met some of them at the weekend and asked about the rumours around the FX1.

There is no truth in any of them.....
At least not here in Japan. I guess that even the USA cameras are made here - so they should know.

See my reply near the end of the "FX1 out of stock at B&H" (maybe on page 5).

I am of the opinion that the "out-of stock" is directly connected to the american love of dollars! The FX1 is not selling well, so why should a store keep it in stock? Better to remove it and sell a mover instead. Just tell the customer that it is discontinued and no longer produced and you can more easily push another brand !

.....said the reason they don't list it on their site, and have stopped carrying it, is because it wasn't selling....

That sounds to me like the real reason why these rumours have started.
Dollars and profits!
Why carry a product that is not selling?
Instead of saying "We can get it for you in 2 weeks...." say, "It has been discontinued...why don't you take a look at this XXX camera. We have it in stock now. It is a better deal. etc.etc."

My home town of Kumamoto is in the heart of Sony territory. There are 2 very large factories churning out Bravia TVs here...as well as many other products.
My local Sony dealer has regular neetings with the Sony technical staff here....and even plays golf with a few of them.
I tend to believe the Japanese here at the centre of things rather than someone over in the USA who is trying to make a profit by selling equipment of many brands ....... (I have nothing against making money....but......)

I'll check on that Mic next time I'm at Toys-R-Us Fred. Thanks :)

Douglas, thanks for the input. I guess that's all I needed to hear. I just didn't want to buy another one when it's public knowledge that there might be a replacement coming out soon.

Cheers

I have a friend in film school back east who gets to test all of the new Sony models against each other (most recently being A1 vs. FX1 vs. Z1). He has given me a lot of advice, and knows an incredible amount about their DV and HD camcorder lines. This is because he has a friend who works on the prosumer-side at Sony in New Jersey (not sure what office or his exact title). I posed the FX1 query to him to see if he could get any info. He emailed his friend and this is the response that came back:

Typically, the lifecycle of the pro/broadcast cameras are longer than the consumer versions. Unlike consumers, professional and broadcast buyers like to standardize on technology with a particular timeframe in mind, because:
1. They generally also buy lots of accessories like batteries, chargers, lights, support gear, etc.
2. They buy in phases, over a period of months or years

Whenever the FX1 does go "end-of-life" (which is not currently the case), that does not automatically mean that the Z1U will be discontinued as well. That being said, there is no plan to discontinue the Z1U anytime in the near future. It is selling very well, and it is*only 16 months old (still "pubescent" for pro gear!).

I am not directly tied in to the strategy of the consumer group in terms of product schedules. They came out with the HC1 and we followed up with the A1U. Then, they introduced the HC3, but we have no current plan for a pro version of that camera. So, things do not always have a direct correlation between consumer and pro with respect to cameras.

I didn't know that Apple stopped selling the FX1, but I was aware that they had advertised a very low price for a day or so (like $1999), but quickly changed the price back to $2999. Not sure what happened there, but I have to think it was a mistake. There was lots of web chatter about it at the time; I think it was around April 1, because I actually thought that it might have somehow been an April Fool's prank.

Bottom line: We're always working on new products and new technologies. When a new camera comes out, it does not necessarily mean that an existing one gets discontinued. This is especially true with a new format like HDV, where it is important to build a product family to give the format a solid foundation.

<i>The FX1 is not selling well, so why should a store keep it in stock? Better to remove it and sell a mover instead. </i>

Curious, where does this information come from?

Curious, where does this information come from?

Read Douglas' post above...

I live, not only in Japan, but in the heart of Sony territory. Here in Kumamoto are 2 very large Sony factories mainly turning out Bravia TVs. My dealer has regular meetings with Sony technical staff and even plays golf with some of them. I met some of them at the weekend and asked about the rumours around the FX1.

I must say, with much respect to Douglas and Boyd, that i do find the statement that the FX1 is not selling well really quite surprising.

-it's always been a good seller AFAIK and it just doesn't seem to tally well with the fact that B&H have had the FX1 on back-order for quite some time now. Back-order implies either a demand for the machine in excess of normal expected unit-sale levels, or some manufacturing or shipping-from-Japan problem. Just seems to conflict a bit to me. - just my viewpoint.

- interesting situ anyway !

The report of the FX1 "not selling well" is actually from me -- or rather from a phone salesman at EVS I spoke with on the phone yesterday. See this thread: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=65575

Personally, I don't buy it, but no other credible explanation has been provided for the FX1 disappearing from the shelves of reputable camera stores. Sorry to hijack your thread, just wanted to provide the source of "that" discussion in case anyone would like to join.

As for me, I'm now looking for a Z1, considering most of the stores still selling the FX1 are doing so between $3300 and $3700. Ouch.

And if the life expectancy of the Z1 can be equated to the PD150/170, then it has another 3 years in production ahead of it.

I must say, with much respect to Douglas and Boyd, that i do find the statement that the FX1 is not selling well really quite surprising.

Actually I was just pointing out that others have said this. Personally, I would also be surprised if it isn't selling well....

Shane,
I'm afraid your friend was misinformed on the Apple issue.
Apple didn't relist the FX1 at the SRV of $2,999, they completely removed the camera, along with other Sony video cameras from their site and claimed they ran out of stock.
The camera still remains absent from the apple store page to this day.
And as for the FX1 reaching "end-of-life" cycle, I was informed a couple of months ago via Sony that the camera is no longer in production.
Perhaps I spoke with the wrong person, or maybe Sony changed their mind, but recent revelations would indicate that it has in fact ceased production and the reported limited quantities would only reinforce this claim.

I took the quotation about the FX1 not selling well from this post.

"FX1 out of stock at B & H"... thread number 75 by Shane Coburn. He states that.........

I spoke with Ryan at EVS this morning (EVS is also out of stock), and he said that he didn't know anything about the FX1 being discontinued. He said the reason they don't list it on their site, and have stopped carrying it, is because it wasn't selling. He went on to say that they even had a couple of returns on the camera from people who didn't like it;


As he has spoken to a person in the sales dept. of a reseller in the USA - I thought that it was reasonable to quote from his statement.
Please direct any questions about the truth in this to "Ryan at EVS"......

Sorry I confused you all by not making it clearer from the start where I had found the information.

ooops.... I was a bit slow in replying....seems like while I was waking up others have already replied as to the source of the "not selling well" rumour.

I know that both cameras are very active and selling well over here.
The Japanese police have installed a lot of the FX1 and Z1 cameras in their patrol cars. They like the clarity of the licence number plates on the footage. makes it easy to identify the cars.

In the midst of all the rumours let me throw in a new approach to the question that covers most Japanese products.

In Japan most people speak Japanese. Their spoken English is very limited.

I quite often get information in broken English that I find hard to believe....when my Japanese wife puts the question to the person again and he/she answers in Japanese the facts come out different.

The information I get here is in Japanese and is interpreted by my wife - who is an English teacher.
I tend to believe this information, rather than information from a native english speaker who has been informed by a less than perfect english speaking Japanese.

This "language barrier" and all its possible misunderstandings is probably the root of many of the rumours that circulate concerning japanese products.

I also know that company representatives over here in Japan will avoid giving all the facts if they think it is bad for their company...... but they won't lie if you ask them a direct question.

An example I have from last year:
I had been invited by Sony (via my dealer) on a tour of their factory in Kumamoto and see the new Bravia production line.
I asked one of the staff, "So the Bravia TV is made completely here in Kumamoto?"
He said, "NO! We have many components from Samsung in the TVs. We have a very good co-operation with the Samsung Comapny in Korea"

The bottom line is when asking questions and getting answers and 2 or more languages are involved - be careful of conclusions.

EVS had had a couple of returns of the FX1 because 'people didn't like it?' What sort of people are these? Do they order one not knowing anything about the camera other than the price and they like the pretty thumbnail picture they've seen? Are they surprised at its size? Did they think the FX1 was a television perhaps? Did they buy a Canon Optura while they waited for the postman?

Do stores have to refund on things like this - and what happens to the returns? Do hapless, genuine customers get a pre-fondled unit passed off as new?

tom.

EVS had had a couple of returns of the FX1 because 'people didn't like it?' What sort of people are these? Do they order one not knowing anything about the camera other than the price and they like the pretty thumbnail picture they've seen? Are they surprised at its size? Did they think the FX1 was a television perhaps? Did they buy a Canon Optura while they waited for the postman?

Do stores have to refund on things like this - and what happens to the returns? Do hapless, genuine customers get a pre-fondled unit passed off as new?

tom.
Your queries are precisely why I didn't buy his story. It just didn't make any sense. Just the same, I thought it even more curious that a sales person would actually go to such trouble to support a story like this.

When I asked him why the FX1 wasn't selling, he said that it was because it didn't generate timecode, did not have XLR inputs, and could not shoot in PAL. He said that "professionals" demanded a real camera with these options. Now, I'm not a full-time video professional, but I've been making money shooting things with a GL1 and VX2000 for a couple of years now, and neither of these cameras shoot PAL or have XLRs. Furthermore, one can always get an XLR attachment for the FX1. I can see the timecode argument, but I don't personally demand it in a camera, and I know there are plenty of other people that don't either.

Now before I go on, I'd just like to say that what follows is my opinion. Please don't reference me like I know what the hell I am talking about...
Based on what has been shared on this board, and the other outside information I have gathered, I would perceive that Sony is indeed inclined to discontinue the FX1 and try to distance it more from the Z1. If the majority of semi-professionals are quick to buy and recommend the FX1 over the Z1, and the Z1, being a professional camera, needs to stay in the line for three years or so, than Sony is certainly losing money in the professional HD category -- and will continue to do so. If their "pro" customers aren't buying their pro camera, and are instead opting for a model priced $1500 less, than they need to do some reshuffling. In this way, I don't expect to see an improved version ala FX2, but rather, a) a camera with less features and a lower price-point, or b) nothing between the A1 and Z1.

Shane,
I'm afraid your friend was misinformed on the Apple issue.
Apple didn't relist the FX1 at the SRV of $2,999, they completely removed the camera, along with other Sony video cameras from their site and claimed they ran out of stock.
The camera still remains absent from the apple store page to this day.
Yes, I saw that the camera is no longer available on the Apple site. I wonder if he was confused about something...maybe another web store.

And as for the FX1 reaching "end-of-life" cycle, I was informed a couple of months ago via Sony that the camera is no longer in production.
Perhaps I spoke with the wrong person, or maybe Sony changed their mind, but recent revelations would indicate that it has in fact ceased production and the reported limited quantities would only reinforce this claim.
Seems that we all have a friend at Sony...haha. Care to elaborate on the details of the conversation with your contact?

What would be wrong if Sony updates the FX1? I hope they do.

I hope to get a new camera this summer and I'd like to see some updates on what we can probably call the first wave of HDV cameras. Z1, FX1, whatever that JVC was, HVX, etc. The are all good, but I'm sure you can all say, I wish it had this or it did this or didn't do that.

Someone even posted on another board that Panasonic is coming out with a 16:9 DVX non HD. Lot's of talk but something will come out sooner or later.

If a camera is not selling they will improve it, repackage it.

Care to elaborate on the details of the conversation with your contact?
It wasn't really a detailed conversation, it was a simple question concerning the production of the FX1, to which they simply responded saying it was no longer in production. My reasons for asking the questions weren't a part of an inquiry to uncover a successor, rather to ascertain more information wrt the Apple incident.
What would be wrong if Sony updates the FX1? I hope they do. ... If a camera is not selling they will improve it, repackage it.
Nothing would be wrong with updating the FX1, in fact it would be widely welcomed.
However, if we follow the rationale you've outlined in your last sentence wrt to a poor selling item and the necessity to improve it and repackage it, then we might as well conclude that if a product is selling well, they'd cripple it, repackage it, and/or probably remove it from the roster entirely. Not too bold of a claim considering it's what they did with the HC1 to the HC3 and appear to be doing with the FX1.
Also, when observing Sony's behavior in the digital camera market, they've reportedly made no plans to provide a successor to the prosumer R1 and instead focus on the DSLR segment which they recently acquired via the Minolta fold and subsequent release of the Alpha100 and a plethora of rebadged lenses.

Guys, this thread has strayed pretty far from reality and is filled with speculation, wishful thinking and conflicting third party accounts from dealers and "friends at Sony."

This is all fine, but it really belongs in our "area 51" forum, so that's where you'll now find it :-)

There was also a lot of overlap between the "FX1 out of stock" and "Buy Z1 now?" threads, with people posting the same responses to both. Therefore I've merged everything together here so the discussion will be easier to follow.