Hey all--Finally got a P2Store and I am having two recurring problems (had the same problems on a unit I rented about a month ago). When I copy data to the Store, then press the HDD button to check how full the drive is, all 4 lights illuminate, indicating the drive is completely empty. This happens even when several cards are loaded onto the Store and it is definitely not empty (data copies to the P2 Store just fine).

The other problem I'm having is in formatting or erasing the drive when I'm done offloading footage from it. When I press the HDD format button, all four lights on the front of the drive illuminate for a few seconds, then extinguish, seemingly indicating that the drive has been formatted. But no data has in fact been erased from the drive.

Any input on these two problems would be GREATLY appreciated. Other than that everything works great. Thanks guys!

Peter

For what it's worth, there appears to be an "Engineering Bulletin - Apple/PC Compatibility" link on the P@ Store product page on the Panasonic site... I wonder if that'll help. The link is:

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=94262&catGroupId=14595&surfModel=AJ-PCS060G&displayTab=R

click on "Engineering Bulletin" link at the bottom of that page.

I'll be interested in the reply---as I just joined the forum to ask exactly the same question you did, Peter. The fact there is no manual does not help.

Rod Mullen

Thanks Chris. This engineering update is in reference to changing the mode of the P2Store from Mac to PC, but thanks for the tip. Our editor is going to try the workflow Phil suggested and we'll see how it goes. I'll report back here with findings.

Peter

Glad to know I'm not the only one Rod. Which problem are you having? THe erasing problem or the storage indicator problem?

Peter

Glad to know I'm not the only one Rod. Which problem are you having? THe erasing problem or the storage indicator problem?

Peter


How did you solve it a month ago in the rental unit?

Best,

Jan

When I used a rented P2Store a couple weeks ago, I noticed that P2Store functions such as P2 card download and P2 card formatting did not work when you were hooked up to a computer via USB. I guess the reasoning is that you could use P2Store manager/P2Viewer to perform those functions when you're attached. When I disconnected from USB, those functions worked.

Are you connected to a computer via USB when you're trying the P2Store functions? I didn't notice this behavior with the functions you specified (b/c I didn't try them), but maybe these functions are disabled from the P2Store control panels when you're connected via USB.

Hope this helps.

Thanks Chien. Unfortunately, I have these problems even when not connected to a computer. Yesterday on the shoot I filled the P2Store to capacity, and when it got very close to full capacity, only one HDD Capacity light illuminated, so this function works, sort of. It seems to be either all four lights, or one light, but nothing in between.

Regarding the formatting issue, I am now just formatting using the P2 Manager utility. it would be nice if the HDD format button worked, though.

Unfortuantely, I wasn't able to fix either of these problems on the unit I rented last month, Jan. Any thoughts?

Peter

Re: formatting
when you press the HD format button on the front with a paper clip you then have about 3 seconds to hit start on the top of the unit. This should reformat your drive.
Shane.

Thanks Shane! I will give that a shot.

Peter

Did that work, Peter? Is it easy to copy footage from the P2 cards to the P2Store? How long does it take to transfer footage from the P2Store to the computer (like if you filled it to capacity)?

That did work. It is very easy to transfer ftg from the cards to the camera. You just insert the card and hit the Start button...doesn't get any easier than that. You have to be pretty careful about not bumping the drive as it is executing the transfer, but that is pretty much a no-brainer. The P2Store mounts to a variety of notebooks no problem, and each individual card shows up as a separate volume, which is nice.

I am actually doing a transfer right now of ftg from the P2Store to an external FW800 drive, and it is taking about 20mins for 7gigs--not too bad. In the field, a full card takes about as long to transfer to the P2Store, with verify mode On, which I would highly recommend.

I really think shooting to cards and then transferring the contents to the P2Store is the "safest" way to shoot with this camera. Unless you are in a very controlled studio or production environment, I would find recording to a hard disk-based system like the FS100 very worrisome. Your field hard drive should be about as bullet proof as possible, and involved in the production a minimal amount, which is why I like shooting to the cards (which seem about indestructable) and then transferring to the P2Store.

You do have to be careful with this cam about transferring footage and always making sure you have a backup somewhere. Already we had three cards worth of data get corrupted when transferred from the P2 card to an external hard drive (not the P2 Store) via the PCMCIA slot on my Powerbook. Fortunately, I had a backup on the P2Store. Basically, you just need a system of checks and balances to keep from having some terrifying moments.

Peter

Already we had three cards worth of data get corrupted when transferred from the P2 card to an external hard drive (not the P2 Store) via the PCMCIA slot on my Powerbook.

I noticed on my last HVX job that the Powerbook stopped recognizing P2 cards about every 5-6 cards and needed to be rebooted before it would recognize P2 cards again. This freaked me out a little because as the AC I was responsible for the footage. But then the director (who owned the PB and the HVX) said he heard about this somewhere. BTW, I used P2 Genie which is a pretty nice program that helps you download and number the P2 cards.

This problem didn't come up on the prior shoot with a Windows laptop.

Peter, I agree that the P2Store is the "safest" way to shoot. Though, once it's filled up - it's a time-consuming download. Ideally, if you could schedule the P2Store download during a meal break. Unfortunately, on one shoot we ran late and had to just copy cards onto an external HD via a Windows laptop (after we filled the P2Store) -- which caused some concern. I wish Panasonic would build in a "verify" function into their P2Viewer.

Hey Chien--I also had the PG fail to recognize the cards on regular intervals. A simple restart of the system corrected the problem, as you mention. the P2 Genie looks great. Where can I download it?

It would be nice if Panny built a verify into the viewer function, or if the P2 Genie had this function (though looks like it will eventually). I think the P2 Store is great, just needs to be larger. I was actually waiting to buy one thinking a larger model would be announced at NAB (perhaps I'll be proven wrong tomorrow) but this job came up and I had to get one. I understand they are VERY difficult to find, however, and I lucked out getting one. They are renting for up to 250/day in LA, which is just nuts. Supply and demand....

Peter

Can anyone tell me what maintenance procedures are recommended for the P2 Store? The sticker on the front indicates that there are some checks that can be performed. I can't find a document describing these on the internet and everything that came with the device is in Japanese.

Peter, it was just on the director's PB. But I did a little googling and it looks like if you email p2genie(at)andersholck.com. The developer will send you a beta test copy. Of course, I didn't know it was beta until after the shoot (maybe I would have thought twice before using it).

Hmm, $250/day - that is nuts. I rented an HVX, 4 4GB cards and a P2Store for $500/day. They (PM me if you want the rental house name as they're not a sponsor) told me they rent the cam alone for $400, so that cards and P2Store for $100 effectively. This is in NYC and I heard recently that there are places in the city that rent the same package (cam, cards, store) for $400/day.

Kathy, if you use Windows, you can use the P2Store Manager software to check on the SMART status of the P2Store's hard drive. Other than that I don't think there's any maintenance required. I found a PDF manual online awhile back - PM me if you want a copy.

Very interesting Chien. In LA, things are renting for up to:

305/day for camera
100/day for each 8GB P2 card (so two cards is 200day)
P2Store: up to 250/day


Pretty crazy. In Oregon (where I live) it's a little more reasonable:

Camera: 250/day
P2store: 75/day
1 8GB card: 50-75/day

Very interesting indeed. I'm impressed by how much these cameras are renting for (the shortage helps for sure). I was talking to an AC friend of mine who owns an SR3 and SDX900 package and he says a good rule of thumb regarding rental rates is that if he can get about 1% of the package value/day he's happy.

Using that calculation, say a typical cam/card/store package costs about $10K to buy. If you're renting it out for $400/day on average, then you're making 4%/day. Makes me wish I pre-ordered and bought one.

Very interesting Chien. The 1% number I think is derived from the "100 day rule" that says an item should recover it's original cost after 100 days of rentals. The only reason I think rental rates should be higher for video equipment is because cameras become obsolete so quickly that you need to be able to recover your cost more quickly as well.

Peter

Very interesting indeed. I'm impressed by how much these cameras are renting for (the shortage helps for sure). I was talking to an AC friend of mine who owns an SR3 and SDX900 package and he says a good rule of thumb regarding rental rates is that if he can get about 1% of the package value/day he's happy.

Using that calculation, say a typical cam/card/store package costs about $10K to buy. If you're renting it out for $400/day on average, then you're making 4%/day. Makes me wish I pre-ordered and bought one.


The old 1% rule worked for larger purchases when models didn't change very often. By the time the DV revolution came about the rate of return changed with some of the reasons being the cameras were less durable, models changed faster so you needed a faster rate of return and just the cost of getting and keeping them ready was the same as the big cameras so you had to charge more than 1% just to make it worth your while. For most owner operators it also meant the camera couldn't cover the cost of accesories since its rental price was so low. I have radio mics which cost almost as much as the camera. I am not going to throw them in where before they might have been included since the client was already spending $600 per day.
Also if you looked at other items in the video world the rate of return was much higher say on a Projector than it was on an expensive camera.
As for the price of P2 rentals, I predicted some high prices because you had to get your money back before they announced a bigger size which would make your 4 Gig and 8 Gig cards useless for the rental markets. Who here thinks an 8 gig card will still cost $1350 this fall.

What does the Verify function do? Just ensure the footage gets copied correctly? Anyone know how it works?

Footage got corrupted when transferring from P2 card to your laptop? Could footage get corrupted going from the P2Store to a computer? How does that corruption happen?

Thanks for your help.

I'm not sure the exact technical process of the Verify function, but it is basically as you describe. I think the footage got corrupted due to the hard drive. The lesson is: use good hard drives. Anything is possible, though, including ftg getting corrupted coming from P2Store. Just have to give yourself best odds.

Peter