Hi Everyone,

For anyone who was in the Alternative Imaging forum a year back, you remember that Silicon Imaging had an Altasens-based camera that was "coming". Well, the project took on a life of it's own, and we've teamed up with CineForm and Adobe to bring some pretty incredible workflow enhancements to the tapless market, including a full RAW workflow unavailable anywhere else using the CineForm desktop tools that you are all familiar with.

We'll be at NAB in the Adobe booth, #SL3732 doing demonstrations. This camera is NOT vaporware :)

In a nutshell it's a new single-sensor Altasens 3570 2/3" CMOS camera (12-bit A/D), has a pretty neat RAW workflow by recording to a new 10-bit RAW codec from CineForm, and records to anything you want that is USB 2.0 compatible. Of course there is on-board recording with a removeable 2.5" HDD drive cartridge, and you can put any off-the-shelf notebook hard-drive in there that is at least 5400RPM. Compression of the RAW data is wavelet-based (like the other Cineform codecs), and is a mild 5:1 compression. You can mix/match the CineForm RAW data with any other CineForm CFHD files on a Premiere Pro timeline all in real-time; the RAW data is integration is seemless.

You can see more at www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/

The press release is at www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/news.html, and should hit the news wires sometime this morning.

Looking forward to seeing everyone at NAB :)

Jason Rodriguez
Silicon Imaging (my sig for today ;)

So is this where we're headed from 1/3" CCD's? Single 2/3" CCD cameras? Hmmm, priced below $20k huh? Well, if it works, it works! Can't wait to see it! =)

Wow dude!!
I wish u guys the best of luck!!!

Any reason why its PremPro only though ??

Sounds VERY promising!

Be sure to read the FAQ at the botto of the first link. Lots more info there, including this:

"I can't afford a complete cinema package at this time. Can I purchase the remote SI-1920HD-GE camera head and software and use my own PC hardware for recording?

Yes. The pricing for a camera head system, which includes the SI-1920HD-GE camera head, a copy of Prospect HD Edit, Premiere Pro 2.0, a Arri-base-plate adapter, and two Fujinon c-mount lenses will retail for $12,500. Please contact us for certified systems for recording."

Well, Jason, good on you.

Is this the camera package they have been selling for the last year or so, that I mentioned a few times in the forums? Looks like Steve took my advice.

I guess this has nothing to do with Obin, it doesn't seem to fit in with what they are doing.

How does this compare to the wavelet based $20K Grass Valley Infinity Digital Media Camcorder?

I hope the pricing is a third of Red, because if it comes under $20K there could be a major shakeup in the industry.

Ive already sent an email to Steve for further details.

Two cameras complete, two more to go.

I've examined the information and it looks good, wouldn't mind buying one for my documentary, but I can't afford it.

I would like to see the format of the thing, is it any good for run and gun documentary or Eng work? I don't need a camcorder, but somthing small enough to be handled would help.


Thanks

Wayne.

Hi,

It's Premiere Pro only right now because of the CineForm RAW codec and Prospect HD requirement.

The new codec brings a whole new paradigm in post-production workflows- basically imagine what you've done with digital still cameras and RAW files but now in a real-time editing environment instead of Photoshop. So you can do stuff like completely change around the color matrix (non-destructive color matrix), apply different debayer filters, and of course there's all the real-time capabilities that you normally get from CineForm . . . and it's direct-to-disk, so there's no need to digitize.

No, this is not the same package that Obin was using, or that SI has been selling for the last year on the industrial website. Now if you go for the camera-head only version, then there are some similarities, but this has a completely different software front-end, and CineForm RAW recording, so if you wanted, you just need a decent laptop (the new 2.0Ghz core-duo's are perfect for 1080/30p), no RAID's.

There will be demos in the Adobe booth at NAB, and also the Microsoft Digital theater during the CineForm demo (they will show the RAW codec I believe).

Hope to see everyone there!

Thanks,

Jason

Thanks Jason

So, are we looking at using Car PC's as DIY recording units again ;).

I didn't mean the industrial version, but the short supply initial cinema package that they developed after Obin left.

If Red wasn't around this could really clean up.

For all the talk about Red, to me this, in the right casing format, has better latitude and S/N and enough resolution to do the job.

If only they could do a cheap 720p version (Ibis5a or new 1/2 inch Altasens).


Thanks

Wayne.

Hi Wayne,

The whole modular design of the camera (with a removable camera head) means that other sensor configurations are possible in the future. So either you can upgrade your camera head sensor to something better in the future, or there might be other sensor options/configurations you can employ.

It's very flexible system, and this is only the first in a family of products. But with the software front-ends, flexible codec system, etc., there's a lot that can be done and configured with this camera. We felt that to be competative at this point in time, a minimum of 1080P, 2/3" was a necessity. Other products though can and will stem from this initial release.

If you have ideas on alternate configurations you want, send them in to Steve (he's still point on this stuff), or email us at hd@siliconimaging.com

Sounds promising, but I hope they also embrace MXF, .MOV and other recording methods as well.

Quite interesting. It's looking like we may have two competing tiers of video hardware for the indie filmmaker, the Big-Name-Brand trickle down cameras and the Future-here-and-now cameras from upstart competitors. The big pluses I see for the upstarts so far are:

1. Modularity for future upgrades
2. Top-end lens systems
3. Massive resolution with optional downconversion to more viable ones
4. High quality codecs with little to no compression
5. Tapeless formats

Well, we'll see how it turns out next week! =D

Also, from David Newman at cineform:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?p=466239

He mentions us there is his blog ;)

google gives nothing on "SI-1920HDVR". very secret project. smells like 6GHz CPU-s from unknown producer from couple month ago.

http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/weblog/comments/3568/
http://atomchip.com/_wsn/page4.html

Frank, we know the people and the companies around here, they have been involved with us and are also of very good reputation with many real products.

google gives nothing on "SI-1920HDVR". very secret project. smells like 6GHz CPU-s from unknown producer from couple month ago.

http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/weblog/comments/3568/
http://atomchip.com/_wsn/page4.html

Apart from the fact that they are an established company and the fact that the sensor - SI-1920HD - has been out for industrial and specialist uses for a while, I don't doubt this camera for a minute. Look at the powerful partners; Adobe and Cineform and the fact that David Newman (of Cineform) confirmed it today. Oh, did I mention the footage?

Between this and Red, I think that the Top 3 will have something of a problem on their hands.

Hi Wayne,

If you have ideas on alternate configurations you want, send them in to Steve (he's still point on this stuff), or email us at hd@siliconimaging.com

Thanks Jason, poor Steve already has a email from me ;)

A cheaper basic 720p version at under $5K, would be good. The existing camera really competes in the over $20K, and down to 10K sectors, while there is nothing for the under $10K fro doco Eng and basic film, to compete with prosumer equipment. Using either Ibis, or the newer cheap Altasens 720p sensor.

I have also found good component options for my pixel shifted 720p camera concept, which could be done for less than $1K, but this should be viewed as a grade below the 720p one I just suggested. It is much more than just pixel shifted, it uses alternative technologies I have come up with, including an alternative to 3 chip prisms.

Anyway my apologies for the rambling, not feeling well today.


Thanks

Wayne.

I saw this at studentfilmmaker.com. Very interesting and it seems to be a bit too Windows/Adobe friendly. One chip can go two ways:

The Genesis' one 35mm imaging chip is amazing (WHAT ABOUT BRIAN on ABC looked great).

But other one chip cameras (HD10/HD1 from JVC), no so much.

heath

Was their any pictures of the camera released? Probably have to wait until monday.

I'm really curious how big this camera processing section is and if altasens ever implemented global shutting in their 3570 model vs the rolling shutter of their 3562 models. No spec sheets from altasens on the 3570 yet but they do state they reduced sensor noise, thats always good.

At their site, they say pix next week at NAB.

heath

Thanks for the vote of confidence Ainslie. Yes we are a real company making real cameras. This was kept quiet since we were trying to avoid the pre-pre-preannouncement marketing hype. I will have to say this camera came from the my interactions with this group. We started doing our own software for the SI-1920HD when I couldn't find a solid taker to do it for us. After some testing we realized that although uncompressed was an ideal goal, the workflow for 1080p is very difficult. I met Cineform on this board too. If you haven't already, check out the new Cineform RAW (tm) workflow. It helps make our camera a real Indie tool.

Speaking of Indie tools, you can probably guess that some thought went into the pricing. We could have asked more based on the current market but brought the price low enough that many Indies and schools will be able to afford the camera. That was also why we partnered with Adobe for Premiere. It makes this an affordable tool for creative people.

Well, enough pseudo-hype. I wanted this group to know the story a bit since they formed the roots of this camera.
-Steve

Apart from the fact that they are an established company and the fact that the sensor - SI-1920HD - has been out for industrial and specialist uses for a while, I don't doubt this camera for a minute. Look at the powerful partners; Adobe and Cineform and the fact that David Newman (of Cineform) confirmed it today. Oh, did I mention the footage?

Between this and Red, I think that the Top 3 will have something of a problem on their hands.

Pics next week . . . and yes, the cam is real:

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=SI-1920HDVR&btnG=Google+Search&sa=N&tab=wn

:)

BTW, feedback is always welcome, so if anyone has ideas, bump them over to steve at hd@siliconimaging.com - your input is what makes the tools better.

Thanks,

Jason
Silicon Imaging

lets see, 4 hours of footage on a 160 gb hdd... "Expose, Shoot and Produce impressive 16:9 progressive scan footage at 1080/24p, 1080/25p, 1080/30P and 720P up to 72fps"

that is very interesting!

Nice.This camera based on clever ideas of Drake Team.
http://dvinfo.net/conf/showpost.php?p=242054&postcount=2071
Drake 8bit 4:4:4 RAW from CMOS through FPGA straight to HDD.
SI-1920HDVR 10bit 4:2:2 Cineform RAW through FPGA straight to HDD.
What another differences?
Elphel camera have same concept, but have onboard 8bit 4:2:0 low quality
jpeg or theora codec and cost only $800.
High cost of Altasens CMOS imager, R&D and Cineform codec with RAW2AVI convertor = and as result $20K price for consumer?

Kinetta, Drake, Andromeda, SI-1920HDVR, RED...
Who is next with affordable price for cmos+fpga?
We'll waiting for gift from our friends from China? ;-)

Silicon Imaging was nice enough to cooperate with a newspaper I work for, and a picture of CEO Ari Presler with a computer drawing of the camera appeared on the front page of our newspaper this morning. (Silicon Imaging is a local company.) Since they weren't planning to release pictures nationally until Monday, I don't want to say too much, but I can tell you it is very cool looking. In fact, it reminds me quite a lot of a certain classic 16mm film camera that continues to have a cult following. Beyond that, I probably shouldn't say.

a certain classic 16mm film camera that continues to have a cult following.I can think of a couple that have a cult following... the Canon Scoopic, the Cinema Products CP-16.

Sorry to be so cryptic. :) It definitely looks more like a film camera than any camcorder I've ever seen. I want one now more than ever.

Tip, add up the price of the extras over Elphel. it is very cheap! Possible to do 720p cheaper again, but quality lower and nobody was interested.

What from China?

What's the newspaper's web site?

heath

It's albany.bizjournals.com.

The story (with photo) won't post until Monday. Actually, if anyone's up late Sunday they might get a peak at one minute after midnight, eastern standard time.

I'm gonna be up that late, so I'll hit www.albany.bizjournals.com that night!

heath

seeing the way that camera handles highlights in the bright sun nearly brought a tear to my eye. congrats! looks like you guys pulled it off :)

seeing the way that camera handles highlights in the bright sun nearly brought a tear to my eye.

I kinda peed a little when I saw that also. So far I'm believing the 10-stop range that's being claimed.

So far, it looks like SI has pulled off what RED is shooting for minus the extra res, and large sensor. These are fine, fine days we're living in.

I kind of like the sensor size. Realistically, it looks like pulling focus on these cameras, especially with the difficulties in monitoring, is going to be really tough with a very shallow depth of field. Plus, aren't 16mm film lenses way cheaper than 35mm film lenses?

Plus, aren't 16mm film lenses way cheaper than 35mm film lenses?

On the whole, yes. Really top shelf modern ones are effectively out of reach still though. But a set of 16 speeds is not too crazy in price, and VERY easy to find to rent.

The first public pictures of the camera in action are posted under Virtual NAB:

http://www.siliconimaging.com/phpBB/index.php

I cant wait to see a breakdown in pricing. This is unreal. Judging by the footage on your site, this is the camera I've waited all of my life for. I'm dying to see some info on release dates and pricing.

Maybe it is an obviouse question and studip to ask, but how about DOF? I mean, sensor is 2/3 so it is not like 35mm size. What kind of lenses can be used ? Cinema? What mount? Will it have shallow DOF like when working on 35mm film?

Levan,

SI has many of those detail explain here: http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/key_features.html. Basically the camera will shoot and handle like Super16 (only more resolution), and because of the simplified optical path (vs a 2/3" Video like CineAlta) you can put very wide aperature lens on it to have a lot of DOF flexibility.

Well, the photos prove it's real! It looks pretty big... How easy is it to use handheld, without a SteadyCam?

4 hours of 1080p. Wow. Digital Cinema is about to become a reality overnight.

I seen photos with it shoulder mounted on a earlier unit -- which I promised I wouldn't share. So these new photos on a stabilizer show it is very veratile, even if a bit larger than today's HDV cameras.

That is an interesting look (http://www.siliconimaging.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=18).

heath

More images from yesterday's shoot up on my blog : http://cineform.blogspot.com/

That looks like an old-school 16mm film camera, but with 21st century advanced technology on the inside! I can't wait to give it a go with Jon Fordham.

heath

More images from yesterday's shoot up on my blog : http://cineform.blogspot.com/

I've only seen the 7" monitor mentioned, I assume there's also a viewfinder available for hand held shooting?

Do you have any details? How well does it balance for handheld work?

Wayne, i mean Elphel cameras which is cheap, because manufactured in China.
Guys from Moscow Center Of Television Technology (http://www.ctt.ru/)
able to programming FPGA and already have solution for video camera.
You can hire also skilled programmers from Minsk (White Russia) very cheap.
But best way is ask Andrey Filippov about possibility to make option write compressed
RAW from CMOS direct to disk 2.5" inside remote camera head.

I've raised it with him already, already specified a new effective low processing over head bayer compression method. Honestly, very hard to get comment from Andrey sometimes, I still have unanswered questions after 2 years, most answered only in the last week or so.

I should patent that thing before the year is up, any backers? Actually I am sitting on a number of patentable compression ideas, and I am thinking I should look for somebody to take them on and patent them, and was thinking of contacting somebody last week about it.

What you guys are doing is amazing, that's i love this community. The only advice i can give to someone who works in the marketing and invention industry, patent anything and everything.

to have a patent
you have to have it
mostly allround the globe,
as the guys I do hate are sitting there only
to look what comes up next to get coppied.
This keeps the whole industry runing.

But you know this allready.

Ephel is open and in fact like gnu Linux.

To run money you need money, lots of.
That's the reason why we have no electric cars,
and stupid waste we have to drive with.

But you know this allready.

So silicon cam is mostly like Drake.
What did they got? Nothing
There was no protection on,
as there was no money to have a patent.

An European pattent is rubbish
for the rest of the world and
very expensive and takes time, anybody can look at.
Funny but true, American pattens are quite the same.

So quite nothing happens as no show = not to be coppied.

As to have good quality realy very very cheap,
there is the linux storie = have it free.
But service is your show or you have to pay for.

The story there is to have a structure maybe worldwide
and that's again a lot of money.

Take that, openoffice has more and is better for french
writing as any Word.
It open any word .doc and can be read by word.
It is on any even Windoffs OS, and FREE.

Making film there is so much money involved or so low,
that ephel is the only way to go, the smallest board with linux
and doing cutting/editing there is a wonderfull solution
allready known even from some moviemakers
doing anything but mainstream. Effekt also.
Anybody other can pump money in Adobe, Inferno
or anything else, we are free doing so if the bank agrees on.

To run money with, look for another solution,
eg, get married rich.
Me I missed that but, that's another story.

me as transsexual but still interested in film,
no question of sex
only a big cup of madness
will miss that chance a second time,
as I do like still girlz LOL.

So doing ephel i'm on board
no money as I do not have but still there, alive.
Régine aka Ronald

BTW, I have some video from the Silicon Imaging booth and some words from Silicon Imaging booth rep, Ari Presler. I should have it up later today, workload permitting.

regards,

-gb-