I am planning to shoot a documentary about my grandmother in one or two months. At this moment, I do not have an external microphone. As the internal microphone of the HC1E records the motor noise, I am looking for a good external solution. I am unexperienced so I am not sure which type of microphone is the best for documentary filmmaking. I have the idea that a gun-zoom microphone might do the job perfectly. There are offerings from Sony, as well as third-party work arounds.

So please help me out with this one so I can have perfect audio.

Go to this link: http://dvestore.com/theatre/index.html and then click on the links for "Shotgun Shootout" and "Indoor Microphones" - and watch both videos.

For the most part, if you're going to shoot indoors, you probably want something similar to the Rode NT3 (a hypercardioid mic) rather than a shotgun mic. Shotguns do well outside and in a studio (anywhere where the is little reflection from walls, cieling, etc.). The Rode NT3 is not a shotgun and it will do much better indoors than any shotgun in a similar price range.

Do those microphones work on the HDR-HC1? They look like they are using XLR plugs, which the HDR-HC1 does not have. I reckon there is some converter available, how much do they cost and do they work well?

I am also looking at the Videomic, but it uses the Hot Shoe adapter. Sony camera's have the some like a AI shoe, so is there a way I can still use it?

I really need some hands-on information ont he HDR-HC1 and various microphones.

Do those microphones work on the HDR-HC1? They look like they are using XLR plugs, which the HDR-HC1 does not have. I reckon there is some converter available, how much do they cost and do they work well?

I am also looking at the Videomic, but it uses the Hot Shoe adapter. Sony camera's have the some like a AI shoe, so is there a way I can still use it?

I really need some hands-on information ont he HDR-HC1 and various microphones.

The Videomic does not use a "Hot" shoe adapter, since it is powered by a single AA battery (i.e., it is meant to be used with a "Cold" shoe mount).

The easiest way to mount the mic is to purchase something like the Bescor cold shoe adapter bracket for $10 which would give you two cold shoe mounting spots and get the microphone away from the camera. Followed by making or buying a custom AIS-to-Cold Shoe adapter. I also think the newest Sony 10-watt wide-beam video light also includes an AIS-to-CS adapter as part of the kit (for $100+).

I'm not sure how "perfect" this Grandmother documentary is going to be, but have you actually tried the HC1's mic? As in set the scene up as you plan to shoot, substitute someone for your Grandmother, and see if the internal mic does a good enough job picking up the audio?

I have not really had a problem with my HC1's internal mic picking up motor noise -- I do have a problem with it picking up things like my breathing behind it, etc., which is why I choose to go with a Videomic for my outdoor shots.

I too am looking for "better audio" for my HC 1. After much reading and research, here is what I have coming along with various cabling, bracketry and accessories.


Shure VP64A omnidirectional handheld/camera or bracket mount microphone

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=157395&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

Mini Stereo to XLR adapter, non-transformer type

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=158477&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

Rode Videomic

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=363083&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

Studio 1 Productions BP Pro XLR Adapter

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=257129&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

Not complete as to wants, but hopefully a "good" start.

Jamie

Where exactly do you need the last one for?

Where exactly do you need the last one for?

For use as a mixer for a couple of inputs including "line in" feed ability for input from a mixing board or music/audio source.

Jamie

Ok, I suppose I won't need it at this moment. But what I am basically looking for at this moment is a good indoor and outdoor mic. So I guess I will have to buy one of those Rode NT3 hypercardioid microphones for indoor shooting, and a gun microphone for outdoor shooting. So does anyone have a good recommendation for a gun/outdoor microphone?

Furthermore, do I need a XLR-3,5mm for the Rode NT3 microphone or does it have one in the standard configuration? Thanks again.

Ok, I suppose I won't need it at this moment. But what I am basically looking for at this moment is a good indoor and outdoor mic. So I guess I will have to buy one of those Rode NT3 hypercardioid microphones for indoor shooting, and a gun microphone for outdoor shooting. So does anyone have a good recommendation for a gun/outdoor microphone?

Furthermore, do I need a XLR-3,5mm for the Rode NT3 microphone or does it have one in the standard configuration? Thanks again.Yes you'll need an XLR-3.5mm for the NT3. It has an XLR connection at it's base and so you'll need the converter to plug it into the HC1. This mic is primarily intended to be handheld, so if you're going to mount it on the camera, you'll need a shockmount - I suggest Rode's own range. SM3 or SM5.
You could use a shotgun indoors or the NT3 outdoors - it's just a matter of seeing what's acceptable to you. It'll be MUCH better audio than i think you'll get with the HC1's internal mics.

To get an idea of how much difference you can hear when shooting someone a few feet away, with the camera's built-in mics, versus an external mic positioned close to the speaker (NT3 in this case), see this clip :
http://dvcreators.net/products/indoormic_movieframe.htm

The guy in the above clip is Guy Cochran who is on this board. Check out the recent thread in 'Now Hear this' about mic shootouts - he's posted in that thread recently.
rgds

I use the Rode NTG-1 (or NTG-2 if you want, same mic, just one has battery power option also) as my outdoor shotgun mic. Supposedly or argubly the best shotgun mic under $500. If you have a bit more than $500, go with the Audio Technica AT4073A. After that, maybe the Sennheiser MKH-416 (over $1,000), then after that look into Sanken and Schoeps, which can be more than $1,500 each.

For indoors, I use the Sennheiser ME64, a cardioid, with K6 power module. Debating if I need to get a K6 Red dot to reduce sensitivity. My ears are pretty untrained, so can someone tell me how to tell if my mic is too hot/too sensitive? Is it too hot on my Sony HVR-A1U camera? How can I tell? How do I tell for other cameras too?

I'm considering the Rode NT-3 hypercardioid, but I wonder if it makes much of a noticeable difference between the Sennheiser ME64? Anyone share their experiences or have sound comparison clips?

Last question: what kind of mic is a shotgun mic? Is it or is it not a hypercardioid, because I've read reports that say shotguns are hypercardioid and reports that say shotguns are not hypercardioids and that shotguns have a tighter pattern than hypercardioids?

It's a bit pricy, but what about a ECM-HW1 Wireless Microphone? Bluetooth, up to 30m.

I use the Rode NTG-1 (or NTG-2 if you want, same mic, just one has battery power option also) as my outdoor shotgun mic. Supposedly or argubly the best shotgun mic under $500. If you have a bit more than $500, go with the Audio Technica AT4073A. After that, maybe the Sennheiser MKH-416 (over $1,000), then after that look into Sanken and Schoeps, which can be more than $1,500 each.

For indoors, I use the Sennheiser ME64, a cardioid, with K6 power module. Debating if I need to get a K6 Red dot to reduce sensitivity. My ears are pretty untrained, so can someone tell me how to tell if my mic is too hot/too sensitive? Is it too hot on my Sony HVR-A1U camera? How can I tell? How do I tell for other cameras too?

I'm considering the Rode NT-3 hypercardioid, but I wonder if it makes much of a noticeable difference between the Sennheiser ME64? Anyone share their experiences or have sound comparison clips?

Last question: what kind of mic is a shotgun mic? Is it or is it not a hypercardioid, because I've read reports that say shotguns are hypercardioid and reports that say shotguns are not hypercardioids and that shotguns have a tighter pattern than hypercardioids?
Hang on - you've got two relatively expensive mics, one a shotgun and one a cardioid, and you're asking what kind of mic a shotgun mic is ?!?!

General sound polar patterns tend to go something like this:
Omni-directional (picks up sound, more or less, from every direction)
Cardioid (more biased towards the front, and some from the rear)
Hypercardioid (more extreme than the cardioid)
Shotgun (again, tighter pattern than the hyper)
Laser (very narrow pickup)

but i don't think there's any specific 'rules' as to when a cardioid becomes a hyper becomes a shotgun. Others on this board are far more knowledgeable about this sort of thing so they may jump in here to give a better description than the basic one above.
Or alternatively do a search in the 'Now Hear This' forum for some of these terms and there should be a load of info there.

Well, yes, I do have "relatively expensive" mics, but I bought those based on the recommendations from this board. Before I bought the mic under the impression that the Rode NTG-1 was a shotgun and the Senn. ME64 was a cardioid, but then I started reading more and got confused with people mixing up terms or using them in ways I didn't understand. For awhile, I started to get confused if a shotgun was a hypercardioid because previously I had thought a shotgun was not a h.c. (and that a shotgun had a tighter pattern than a h.c.). Never heard of a laser mic.

So it's not that I haven't done my research or that I didn't know (apparently I knew correctly before), it's that I got confused from reading more, not necessarily just from this board.

I have one more question about the Rode shockmount. How do I attach it to my HDR-HC1? I guess it uses a Hot-Shoe mount, but the Sony camera's have the AI shoe. Do I need a converter or something to mount it?

So it's not that I haven't done my research or that I didn't know (apparently I knew correctly before), it's that I got confused from reading more, not necessarily just from this board.Ah ok, got it now. No worries!
Interested in your practical opinions about the differences in sound between your NTG1 and ME64. I think these two mics complement each other quite well and will cover most situations (bar of course when only a lav will do).

I have one more question about the Rode shockmount. How do I attach it to my HDR-HC1? I guess it uses a Hot-Shoe mount, but the Sony camera's have the AI shoe. Do I need a converter or something to mount it?

Please re-read my post above since I've already answered that question for you.

Marc

"Last question: what kind of mic is a shotgun mic? Is it or is it not a hypercardioid, because I've read reports that say shotguns are hypercardioid and reports that say shotguns are not hypercardioids and that shotguns have a tighter pattern than hypercardioids?"

I know a guy who can't seem to wrap his mind around this one either, no matter how many times I explain it. He always comes back with, "but isn't a shotgun a hypercardiod though?" It's comical.

When people say shotgun, which usually has a hypercardiod pattern, they mean a mic that uses an interference tube to achieve its directionality. When they say hypercardiod, they mean a mic that doesn't have an interference tube. Then there's the CS1, which has a cardiod pattern, but is also considered a shotgun, and the CS3e which uses an array of three condenser elements instead of an interference tube and is still considered a shotgun as well, but let's not make it too complicated.

My biggest problem at this moment is to choose between the NTG-2 shotgun microphone and the NT-3 hypercardioid microphone. At the end, I will own both of these microphones but I have to start with one of them. The problem is that my grandmother documentary will be 50% inside / 50% outside. I also want to use the microphone for voice-over work. The other documentary I am planning will be 100% outside (nature documentary).

I have decided to buy the Bescor cold-shoe adapter, I have ordered a Spiderbrace 2 for moving shots and a microphone stand with boom.

I would like to know if I can use the Rode SM-3 shockmount with the NT-3 (the Rode site confirms it works with the NTG-1/2).

Probably will. It's just basically a bunch of rubber bands that holds the microphone, so if the microphone's size is different than the NTG-1/2, then the bands will just stretch more or less to fit the NT-3.

I am always debating whether to get a NT-3. I have the NTG-1 and Sennhesier ME64/K6, but I am wondering since neither of those mics are hypercardioids, if I need the NT-3? What advantages would the NT-3 offer me that I don't already have with the NTG-1 and ME64?

What advantages would the NT-3 offer me that I don't already have with the NTG-1 and ME64?Probably not much advantage since you already have the ME64. i'd say you're fairly well covered with the 2 mics that you've got. NT3 *can* be camera-mounted but it's really designed for handheld use or mic-stand use. I think if you did a lot of 'reporter-esque' interviewing etc then the NT3 would be good for that hand-held.

hi ppl, i'm new here. i have an hc1, and my rode videomic just arrived today. i googled the shoe problem, so i'm here. do you have any tips for what materials to use for the conversion? the sad thing is that i'm stuck in hungary, for spare metal shoes i have to look in 500 stores. i though of getting a thin piece of plastic, cut it in with a dremel to fit the ai, and screw a standard shoe on it.

Stu, so you don't think I need a hypercardioid at all in conjunction with the shotgun (NTG-1) and cardioid (ME64)? I'm confused when you might use a hypercardiod vs. cardioid. I know shotguns are great for outdoors when you want to target, say dialogue, and reject most of the ambience sounds or dull it to a large extent at least. But what about h.card. and card.?

hi ppl, i'm new here. i have an hc1, and my rode videomic just arrived today. i googled the shoe problem, so i'm here. do you have any tips for what materials to use for the conversion? the sad thing is that i'm stuck in hungary, for spare metal shoes i have to look in 500 stores. i though of getting a thin piece of plastic, cut it in with a dremel to fit the ai, and screw a standard shoe on it.Andy you can solve the problem of mounting the Videomic on the HC1 by buying an L-shaped bracket that screws into the tripod socket. It's the simplest solution i think.
B&HPhoto have the Bescor VB-50 which works well.
Link below so you can see what i mean:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=133276&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

Stu, so you don't think I need a hypercardioid at all in conjunction with the shotgun (NTG-1) and cardioid (ME64)? I'm confused when you might use a hypercardiod vs. cardioid. I know shotguns are great for outdoors when you want to target, say dialogue, and reject most of the ambience sounds or dull it to a large extent at least. But what about h.card. and card.?Well the NT3 is primarily intended to be used handheld for vocals / voiceovers or on a mic-stand i think for instrument recording. You *could* mount on camera with a shockmount like SM3 or SM5 but generally in the situations where you might do this, i think the ME64 would be better/easier solution.
I think the NT3 would be great as a general-purpose condenser mic, that you could do 'interviews' or other commentary with, either by getting an extension cable (Rode themselves do a 10ft cable but obviously they're commonly available) or a radio mic plug-on thingy like the SKP100 from Sennheiser, and the appropriate receiver. The SKP100 is included in the Sennheiser G2 Evolution ew100 set :
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=324227&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

ps. hmm... i'm sure that used to be $499. Now selling at $599 ! :-(

Andy you can solve the problem of mounting the Videomic on the HC1 by buying an L-shaped bracket that screws into the tripod socket. It's the simplest solution i think.
B&HPhoto have the Bescor VB-50 which works well.
Link below so you can see what i mean:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=133276&is=REG&addedTroughType=search


That's pretty good, the only problem now is the HUNGARY part :( they dont ship to any other country than USA
Do any of you know UK or other european retailers? (Google didn't find any)

I'd make one myself (AIS plug, plastic block, cold shoe, and some screws/glue) but 2 of the four materials needed are nearly impossible to get in this craphole country.

Here's one from a big UK retailer :
http://www.keene.co.uk/cgi-bin/bigcodesearch.pl?6831

Do a search on various biggish European retailers and search for "bracket" inb their search boxes and you should find a few. They're all fairly similar and do a similar job. You just need a bracket that screw into the tripod socket and has one (or more) cold-shoes.

Ok, I finally made my decision and bought:

- Rode NTG-2 Directional Condenser Microphone
- Hosa XLR - 3.5mm adapter cable
- Bescor Shoe adapter

I did some testing indoors at my television and I noticed that there was some noise in my recordings which is also present when I use the onboard microphone. What causes this? Do you always have a certain amount of noise in your recordings when there is not much sound in a room? Do I edit it out in post or what is the deal with this? The microphone sounds very clean when I hold it close to my mouth and speak like a narrator.

Use manual audio levels.

Use manual audio levels.

What exactly do you mean by that? If I lower the microphone audio levels, the noise becomes less appearent but it is still there. If I higher the audio levels the noise is more appearent.

What exactly do you mean by that? If I lower the microphone audio levels, the noise becomes less appearent but it is still there. If I higher the audio levels the noise is more appearent.

It's not about recording noise, but sounds and speech. If you use auto levels then it will automatically boost them when no other sounds are around. And that means increased noise.

If you manually set the levels on the hc1 you can lower them so that noise is down, but speech and others are still very nice. That's assuming you have the mic close enough.

To echo Mikko, the mic will always pick up *something* on Auto. If there's very little sound, it'll ramp up the Auto Gain level in an attempt to pick up something, and it'll undoubtedly start picking up some noise from the tape-motor for one thing.
So, Floris, listen to the noise you're getting and if it's tape-motor it'll probably be about the same frequency either on internal mic or external mic. you should be able to get rid of this using your edit package or a sound program in post-production.

Thanks Mikko and Stu. I have done a project now with the new microphone and with lots of music and people talking it does a really good job indoors. And there is absolutely no noticeable hiss/noise or something.

I have just ordered the Rode NT-3 hyper cardioid with On-Stage microphone stand as I want to make sure my sound indoors will be superb. While on it, I also ordered the Rode Deadcat and a Sennheiser HD-280 Pro headphone.

I think I am more then settled with my audio equipment. Looks like I am ready to start shooting this documentary in a few weeks from now.

Furthermore, once I am done with my school, I will start doing some tests with differenct microphones and with the Sony Y lens and other gear, compelte with pictures, to give back to these boards what they have given to me!

Thanks everyone for sharing your feedback with me.