Anyone do photography and videography for weddings? I need a little direction.

yeah get out of video asap...

i might seem bitter, but heres the deal..
brides are selfish, they shoud be, but they shoudl also be understanding of the fact that they are NOT the only customer you deal with.
Brides are ignorant. Some arrogant, but ignorance is the killer. They dont know how much work is involved and the only time they appreciate the work u do is actually when they recieve the finished product. Ok, thats natural right.. why then must video be second best to photogrpahy??

I SWEAR on my childs grave that 99% of weddings ive shot, the photographer has been over my shoulder shooting over me. Ok cool.. but why the Fungoolo is he being paid 3 times what im being paid? IM carrying 15k worth of gear as i shoot.. hes carrying 5k.. i spend 80hours on a longform edit. he spends 20 hours on 500 photos..
he gets 6k, i get 2k..
Wheres the friggin logic??
Maybe i shoudl have stayed with corporate..

Oh then theres the fact that most brides dont bother with reading contracts.. then are shocked to find that they cant perform ye' ol' "im back from my honeymoon, wheres my dvd"
Hell i cant help it if my work is in demand... i work 20hours a friggin day.... what do they think im doing (apart from yappin away on this forum... )
I havent had a day off in 6 years... i took 6 weeks off over Xmas and new year and the shit hit the fan...

wedding clients ARE demanding, and im happy to service them so long as they understanding exactly how much work is involved. It jsut seems that people use their ignorance as an excuse to treat others like shit and im sick of it.
Obviously they hire you for a reason. Obviously theyre paying premium prices coz they want a good product, but they seem to forget this when its time to play the waiting game.

ok tips/directions..

sorry bout the rant. but im REALLY feeling it tonight..

Tips??
be carful. Have an airtight contract and DO NOT budge from it.
Offer a combo package plus individual packages as you dont want to sell urself short.. if they like ur fotos, but think ur video is cheesy (i dunno ur videos dude, im jsut using an example here) what was i saying.. oh if they like ur fotos but think ir video is cheesy theyll hire u to do the fotos.. or vice versa.. but if u only offer the combo, then ur stuffed
Umm.. be careful with what u say
Never overpromise. I never have an never will
If u thnk itll take 4 weeks to do a full edit, tell them 8 weeks.. give urself a buffer and room to breathe.
Dont take on more than u can handle.

Theres heaps more but above all else, dont lose the love for what u do.

Right now, ive got some clients giving me a hard time simply becuase theres not much going on in their lives. Fact remains these clients know the deal and they know that during feb and march, im shootin at least 6 weddings each month. That includes consultations, meeting, and planning, It means maintenance, and stock requisitionsing. It means account management and follow up. It means shooting preshoots and interviews and it means scanning a shitload of pictures to use for their slideshows.

Now where one finds the time to edit in that peak shooting time is anyone guess, but the clients need to understand that during that time, its peak season, so delivery will be determined by what is happening during that time.

Dont lose sight of reality and dont burn yourself out

Dont do what i did, i now regret gettin in this game.
At the end of the day, people dont give a shit about what u did for them, what extras u threw in, how you handled yourself on the day.They dont care what u did to make their day easier for them, even though you went 16hours without taking a piss or getting a piece of bread in your mouth, they dont care how good your work is, how much work is involved in your editing, or what you can do that no other company can, it doesnt mean shit to them. They dont care about anything else except 2 things.

How much they paid and when theyre gonna get it.

Our market here is different from the US market, as theirs has an appreciative element of respect for the work and whats involved. They know that premium products cost money. Here they dont care.. no seriously.. they really dont.. on the outset they SEEM like it matters, but it doesnt. Irresepctive of the class, race or creed of the couple, they all seem to have these 2 fundamental elements in mind

I have to say that i NOW understand why so many producers no longer have their hearts in their work and i certainly dont blame them...

Steven: what do you need to know? Buy two digital SLR bodies and some decent lenses and accessories, a stack of flash memory cards and a current copy of Photoshop, and take a couple of portait photography classes if you're not already familiar with the basics for that. Then do photography only for a couple of weddings to get the hang of it, start offering combined photo/video services using one or more assistants to help you pull it off, and watch your revenue double for an extra 50% or so effort. Better yet, buy HD video cameras so you can make usable prints from video if you miss a key shot on the still cameras, and now you've got something the photographers can't match...about half a million images of a typical wedding.

P.S. Start soon before the photographers all buy video cameras and put us out of business.

Hey Peter,

hehe, I'll try and not become discouraged from your post. I know you are frustrated and have plenty of right to be. I'm sure you do video because you enjoy it. My hope is that you figure out how to be happy in it. If not with the talents that you have dude, you could make money doing something else. Either way, I hope you figure it out. If not, move to the US and we'll go in to business. lol.
I say all this with both talents and a business that pales in comparison to you.
I was just asking a simple question to get ideas on what is involved. I really have no desire to do photography and was just asking in case someone wanted me to do both. I really enjoy videography much more, it's fun to me, and it passifies my ADHD in a larger way.

Steven Davis

dude, dont ever be disocuraged.. nto by ANYONE.. not from clients or morons u come across on the net.. lol

What Kevins says though hits the nail on the head...

Im looking at getting into stills and im already shooting for afew photogs i hooked up with through my video work. Doing it this way gives u alot of exposure (pardon teh pun) to the environemtns through a photogs eye.
Also youll notice teh difference in teh way people treatand respond to you..

Look above all else, be sure that you njoi what u do.

Im upset coz i had a client go off at me coz shes had a bad run. Her photog lost 4 rolls of film, her dress got burnt at teh drycleaners, she got some form of cancer or somesuch thing, they got robbed on their honeymoon and her ring was a fake... plus afew other things which i cant rememebr now..

thng is her video is perfect.. the only issue is that shes waited 6 months for it.. BUT even though theres nofn wrong with it, it dont mean anything coz of all this negativity surrounding her.. so she passes it back onto me..
Its not pleasant let me tell u..

either way dude, follow your dreams, but always look where your stepping coz u dont wana fall off a cliff while u chase that cloud :)

Lifes good people suck. I wish i was a cat... I guess its something to get used to..

BTW, i appreciate your comments dude. More than u know... cheers and beers all round..

wow peter....i didn;t think of how different folks are in your region. here is los angeles, our clients really give us high regards and not just by the work alone, 50% of the time is because of "who" we are as people and how we treated them as clients. we wouldn't have it any other way. if we detect "non-fitting" clients meaning our personalities may clash, we simply pass on producing their wedding video. its not worth it to us to have clients we don't feel we would mesh well with.

i know many photographers will argue that they have the same workload as the videographers but i seriously doubt that one.

wedding videographers who produce a quality product need to increase their rates and stop low balling....doing weddings for 1k, you get the picture. the fact that there are more "part timers" than full time videographers has a huge reflection on pricing imo, i think they feel no need to charge what the product is worth since they really dont "need" the money as they have a real job and work out there house part time. this discussion can go on and on but these are just a few thoughts of mine.

our company does not deal with the low budget bride.....we get inquiries that ask....can you do it for this or that price but we wont budge.....we do not negotiate our rates and we don't want to work with low budget clients.....its not who we are or what we do.

I have shot some weddings (photography).....it was ok, but to be honest, I love shooting camera and editing(motion, audio), for me.....I wouldn't want to be a photographer or offer it as a service no matter what the rate difference.








yeah get out of video asap...

i might seem bitter, but heres the deal..
brides are selfish, they shoud be, but they shoudl also be understanding of the fact that they are NOT the only customer you deal with.
Brides are ignorant. Some arrogant, but ignorance is the killer. They dont know how much work is involved and the only time they appreciate the work u do is actually when they recieve the finished product. Ok, thats natural right.. why then must video be second best to photogrpahy??

I SWEAR on my childs grave that 99% of weddings ive shot, the photographer has been over my shoulder shooting over me. Ok cool.. but why the Fungoolo is he being paid 3 times what im being paid? IM carrying 15k worth of gear as i shoot.. hes carrying 5k.. i spend 80hours on a longform edit. he spends 20 hours on 500 photos..
he gets 6k, i get 2k..
Wheres the friggin logic??
Maybe i shoudl have stayed with corporate..

Oh then theres the fact that most brides dont bother with reading contracts.. then are shocked to find that they cant perform ye' ol' "im back from my honeymoon, wheres my dvd"
Hell i cant help it if my work is in demand... i work 20hours a friggin day.... what do they think im doing (apart from yappin away on this forum... )
I havent had a day off in 6 years... i took 6 weeks off over Xmas and new year and the shit hit the fan...

wedding clients ARE demanding, and im happy to service them so long as they understanding exactly how much work is involved. It jsut seems that people use their ignorance as an excuse to treat others like shit and im sick of it.
Obviously they hire you for a reason. Obviously theyre paying premium prices coz they want a good product, but they seem to forget this when its time to play the waiting game.

ok tips/directions..

sorry bout the rant. but im REALLY feeling it tonight..

Tips??
be carful. Have an airtight contract and DO NOT budge from it.
Offer a combo package plus individual packages as you dont want to sell urself short.. if they like ur fotos, but think ur video is cheesy (i dunno ur videos dude, im jsut using an example here) what was i saying.. oh if they like ur fotos but think ir video is cheesy theyll hire u to do the fotos.. or vice versa.. but if u only offer the combo, then ur stuffed
Umm.. be careful with what u say
Never overpromise. I never have an never will
If u thnk itll take 4 weeks to do a full edit, tell them 8 weeks.. give urself a buffer and room to breathe.
Dont take on more than u can handle.

Theres heaps more but above all else, dont lose the love for what u do.

Right now, ive got some clients giving me a hard time simply becuase theres not much going on in their lives. Fact remains these clients know the deal and they know that during feb and march, im shootin at least 6 weddings each month. That includes consultations, meeting, and planning, It means maintenance, and stock requisitionsing. It means account management and follow up. It means shooting preshoots and interviews and it means scanning a shitload of pictures to use for their slideshows.

Now where one finds the time to edit in that peak shooting time is anyone guess, but the clients need to understand that during that time, its peak season, so delivery will be determined by what is happening during that time.

Dont lose sight of reality and dont burn yourself out

Dont do what i did, i now regret gettin in this game.
At the end of the day, people dont give a shit about what u did for them, what extras u threw in, how you handled yourself on the day.They dont care what u did to make their day easier for them, even though you went 16hours without taking a piss or getting a piece of bread in your mouth, they dont care how good your work is, how much work is involved in your editing, or what you can do that no other company can, it doesnt mean shit to them. They dont care about anything else except 2 things.

How much they paid and when theyre gonna get it.

Our market here is different from the US market, as theirs has an appreciative element of respect for the work and whats involved. They know that premium products cost money. Here they dont care.. no seriously.. they really dont.. on the outset they SEEM like it matters, but it doesnt. Irresepctive of the class, race or creed of the couple, they all seem to have these 2 fundamental elements in mind

I have to say that i NOW understand why so many producers no longer have their hearts in their work and i certainly dont blame them...

I have shot some weddings (photography).....it was ok, but to be honest, I love shooting camera and editing (motion, audio), for me.....I wouldn't want to be a photographer or offer it as a service no matter what the rate difference.

This is where I am. I just plain love the editing. Sitting in front of the time line with 30 GB of source footage and idea. That is what I like to do. I also love showing up and finding the parts of the "average wedding" that are unique or different. For example, for the last wedding, the portraits were shot standing on snow. That created some neat effects. The decorations were all Christmas themed so I had chances to shoot objects that won't be in your average wedding. I wasn't using a high quality camera (because I don't have one yet) but that didn't hold back my footage (too much).

I will say that Video & Photo is a killer sales pitch (to me at least). I have not sold a package with my photographer included. The brides all had that taken care of before the talked to me about video. Eventually someone will get the idea that a combination package is more time efficient for them, eliminates yet another vendor from the complicated picture, and costs less because it economizes our time.

jason

i know many photographers will argue that they have the same workload as the videographers but i seriously doubt that one.

It depends what they do and how they do it, but all things considered it's hard to make a case that photography is as much work as video. And even if it was, wedding photographers on average get paid twice as much as videographers (according to one recent set of stats), but they sure as heck aren't doing twice as much work.

i know many photographers will argue that they have the same workload as the videographers but i seriously doubt that one.
If that ain't the truth. If, for nothing else, that videographers have to also worry about AUDIO which, to me, is as equally important as video. Photographers don't have to deal with that. All other things, yeah, are equal but not audio.

I'm fortunate that my wife is the photographer so we can offer a package deal. Before I dragged her, kicking and screaming, along with me to a wedding, I dealt with some of the most annoying, arrogant photographers I could imagine. Talk about prima donnas!

But, with Kim along, we understand what our requirements are and she makes a great assistant to me, as I do for her. I won't do a wedding without her now. That might hurt us overall but, since this is a "paying hobby" for us, it's okay.

I think you'd be stretching yourself pretty thin, Steve, if you decided to do both. Being a videographer OR a photographer is stressful enough. There's just too many variables in either scenario to go wrong and you compound it by trying to do both at the same time.

wow peter....i didn;t think of how different folks are in your region. here is los angeles, our clients really give us high regards and not just by the work alone, 50% of the time is because of "who" we are as people and how we treated them as clients. we wouldn't have it any other way. if we detect "non-fitting" clients meaning our personalities may clash, we simply pass on producing their wedding video. its not worth it to us to have clients we don't feel we would mesh well with.

i know many photographers will argue that they have the same workload as the videographers but i seriously doubt that one.

wedding videographers who produce a quality product need to increase their rates and stop low balling....doing weddings for 1k, you get the picture. the fact that there are more "part timers" than full time videographers has a huge reflection on pricing imo, i think they feel no need to charge what the product is worth since they really dont "need" the money as they have a real job and work out there house part time. this discussion can go on and on but these are just a few thoughts of mine.

our company does not deal with the low budget bride.....we get inquiries that ask....can you do it for this or that price but we wont budge.....we do not negotiate our rates and we don't want to work with low budget clients.....its not who we are or what we do.

I have shot some weddings (photography).....it was ok, but to be honest, I love shooting camera and editing(motion, audio), for me.....I wouldn't want to be a photographer or offer it as a service no matter what the rate difference.

Yeha dude,
down here its all about the $$ first.. then they go for quality...
Recently the trend here for "higher end" videographers is to offer teh same prices they always did, but to speed up delivery, theyve gotten rid of the longform edits.
Im lookng at doing that simply because i cant keep up.

Her ein aus though, people dont read teh fineprint.. in my contract I clearly state approximations between 4 to 8 months excluding peak seasonal trends.
Ive had the works, from people threatening legal action through to people going to Dept of Fair trading, simply becuase THEY took 6 months to get the music to me, and without music i cant do anything to start the work anyway, so teh tapes sit here... even though i send them reminders, they still ahve the audacity to compalin about delays... its funny i have a client who sent me a CD 3 months after the wedding... she didnt list what songs she wanted, after numerous calls and emails, nothing nada zilch... i did a highlights coz they were the only 2 tracks i needed, but there was like another 150 tracks on the cd... even after printing the list and mailing it to them (this is before XMAS) they stil havent gotten back to me.. and these people are the ones who complain teh most..

So what ive had to do was tighten my contract up to a point where the client pretty much has no right to complain if they dont get their shit together...
I mean its like building a house.. u go out u build a house for a customer.. the house needs carpet.. so the customer needs to tell u what colour and style.. but theyre taking their time about it.. so as your running a business, u start work on another house until they decide.. U contact them as best u can, and then they get back to u with the style..
Now ask yourself this question.. does the customer have a right to complain about delays and should they expect results in a matter of days, or should i just use myu deiscretion, finish the job then deliver it.. then REDO the job when theyre decide they didnt like that choice in music...

THIS is the problem here. half the clients dont get back to you and the other half hound u like rabid dogs.. hell i had one bride that called me 3 days after her wedding, and a week before her wedding i told her i wouldnt even get to review the footage fora t least 8 weeks after the wedding itself..
People have absolutely NO CLUE how much work is involved and the stigma here in aus is all negative.
The point is that these people complain about delays in getting their finished work, but i bet $1000 that they DONT mention the fact that THEY took 6 months to get the music to me...
and THis one sided stoytelling is whats ruining the industry..

so now, all i can do is protect my business by nailing my contract to be so finite that after teh wedding date, teh client has absolutely no reason to complain. I now state that editing wont start until music is recieved, i also mention that as we take notes during our meetings, these notes are used during editing, so if a client changes their mind AFTER the itinirary meeting (i meet with my clients twice before i shoot) then tough.. if they want somethign specific, tell me before shooting, or u can forget it...

Theres too much to lose to let one or two idiot customers ruin my business.. no shit, ive got one girl whos been nice as pie to me and its taken her 7 months to get her music to me..
Then she tells me shes gone to Dept Fair Trading with a complaint about the delay...
This is the mentality...

either way, im changing my business structure and wont be dealing with this crap anymore and teh newer cleints im already getting know whats invovled down to a T...

With Lowballers, the problem here in aus is that there are too many... even legit business' which have been in the game for decades charge stupidly cheap rates jsut to get the job.

The "higher end" studios dont do longform for less than $1000 on top of teh basic shortform edit... this is ok, but its getting those clients which is an issue. Me, im in the middle when it comes to wedding prices, simply becuase not only do i have to compete but i have loads of corporate work.
Id love to only focus on Corp, but thats not a reality here.

I did the opposite, have always been a photographer and now have added Video. I went into Video because of the poor videographers in my area. Yes there are many good ones, but there are so many terrible ones as well.

We have one guy charging 1,500 for the wedding and his work looks like my Aunt Mindy's work. I knew I could do better than him straight out of the box.

Wedding photography is really easy, but it is like being a really good videographer, it will take years. There are just so many nuances to learn, just like Video.

I spend a lot of time editing photography, doing well over a 1,000 images per wedding keeps me busy, I always create a proshow gold slide show, and edit every photo that goes into it. I am gettng faster and better at editing Video, it still takes me a long time. I am on a two week turn over, if I have to work 80 hours a week so be it, my customers always receive everything in two weeks. It is a money back promise, and I have never given back any money.

I have to give myself deadlines or I just won't do it.

Bill

Wow ha ha. Peter that is so true.
Don't worry there are days when i go off worse than you :P

I started assisting my dad in photography when I was 10 years old (hauling equipment, lightling, loading film magazines etc) - starting shooting video when I turned 18 and been doing it now for 12 years. We do both services today. So ya - about 20 years in the biz. I also work btw - I couldn't do wedding full time - I'd go bezerk.

Weddings are just plain crazy. The wedding day - Emotions are up - people are frustrated because they are getting late - or because somebody hasn't arrived, the weather is bad, they didn't sleep, my damn video light is too bright - whatever. They are happy because they are getting married and crying becuase they are remember the good times, family is near - and are excited about their new life - and worried about how the rest of the day. After the wedding they are now living a new life - probably all tense since their life has changed and worst of all they have no money left or are going to paying off their wedding expenese for years.

Actually i find this last point is usually the cause of most issues. Wedding are a huge expense and that adds a lot of tension before and after the wedding.

I've shot a few weddings for free (family) - would you believe they haven't come to pick them up till today after years - they are like no worries man - we'll come man - just busy

You get caught in the middle of the the chaos. After seeing so much of it - I can almost take anything life throws at me - you become de-sensitized.

So steven - Just take it for what it is. You enjoy technology so buy that gear - shoot the wedding - deliver it - and just ignore the emotions - know that its gone. Don' think there are not going to be bad days. Most will be ok - some will will be great.

Your only tension should be ensuring you are able to capture the event 'reasonably'. Exercise due care. Take an extra cam, have double checked your gear with sufficient backup - use 2 alarm clocks so that you get up on time - it's pretty bad if you wake up when the ceremony is about to start.
Basically be on time, do a reasonable job, and complete the video in a reasonable time frame and you'll be good.

We've probably captured over 1200 weddings/events by now. Do people still try and piss me off - yup. Is the scene just like Peter described - oh ya - pretty much. Do I care - well a lot less - maybe another 5 years and i'll be ok :)

Best of luck on your endeavour
Paul

Got tired of begging for permission to use stills from the mostly overpaid photogs so I picked up a digital slr just to get shots to use with my video montages. It makes for much better quality zooms using those hi rez stills in my music videos.

Got tired of begging for permission to use stills from the mostly overpaid photogs so I picked up a digital slr just to get shots to use with my video montages. It makes for much better quality zooms using those hi rez stills in my music videos.

Vincent,

We do that to, I take atleast enough pictures to do the artwork for the dvd etc. It's just my poor little Fuji 7500 won't produce what the photogods that are at weddings will.

The cam I just bought is the Olympus E-500, a fairly low end digital slr, but I can grab enough great shots for my montages, and, like you said, they're great for covers and artwork. I try to sneak away from one of the tripod mounted cams to get some table and dance shots. Only had it for one wedding, but it's worked out well so far.

I've shot four family weddings over the years, doing both video. All for the same family. My equipment gradually got better, and in all of them, I shot stills too. If you are a one man band. It is next to impossible. If you have help (I had my able wife and a nephew at various times), then it becomes more doable.) One thing I have learned is that I would not offer regular film photography, and shoot video too. I have a 2 1/4 camera, with threes lenses. With film loading, and lens changes, I cannot concentrate on shooting video too at the same time, whether I am shooting it directly or directings someone. I have used my Sony 828 for shooting, and do come up with some decent shots, but I've done so with the understanding that the posed shots will not be the level that might be expected of a professional level still photographer. I characterize them as candid digital still shots.

Ok, here is the reason I posted this. I now have a gig that the B&G wants me to do the photography as well. Long story short, this is the second time I've done a wedding for this family, they are happy with our work. The first wedding we did for them was actually our first wedding doing video. So to help the B&G out, we agreed to do the photography as well as the videography.

I currently have a Fuji 7000 which does ok for the snapshot stuff we do, and would probably do a good job for this upcomming outside wedding.

I don't have a problem buying a new still camera if this Fuji 7000 is up to do a good job, maybe with a lens add on and/or an external flash.

I really don't however want to spend 5k on a still, since at this time, I'm still not crossing over to the dark side of photography..........(hehe, umm anyone get it?)

Should I get my Fuji 7000 some steroids or is there something else that will be better for less than my mortgage?

I ve seen a two lens set Olympus 6MP SLR for around $700.00 to $800.00 at our local Frys, and I thought that was a pretty interesting deal. Nikon's low end SLR is a bit higher with one or two lens pack.

Sony had an SLR coming out later, from what I understand. Sony also has a 10 MgP camera out now. I have shot a wedding/video gig with the Sony VX2000 and my Sony 828 (earlier version of the 10 Mgp camera), and generally have been happy with results. Doing both, I didn't have the opportunity to really set things up, but then we were doing the weddings in a "docu" mode anyway.


And of course there is the Canon Digital Rebel...

I ve seen a two lens set Olympus 6MP SLR for around $700.00 to $800.00 at our local Frys, and I thought that was a pretty interesting deal. Nikon's low end SLR is a bit higher with one or two lens pack.

Sony had an SLR coming out later, from what I understand. Sony also has a 10 MgP camera out now. I have shot a wedding/video gig with the Sony VX2000 and my Sony 828 (earlier version of the 10 Mgp camera), and generally have been happy with results. Doing both, I didn't have the opportunity to really set things up, but then we were doing the weddings in a "docu" mode anyway.


And of course there is the Canon Digital Rebel...


Thanks Chris, we shoot video in docu mode, we let it happen and film as we go. I will be looking at the cameras you have suggested. I imagine that the weakness of my Fuji is probably the limitations of the lens.

A DSLR from Canon or Nikon will give much faster autofocus and better low light ability. Those would be the main advantages to upgrading to a DSLR. Doing a wedding without those features makes me cringe, though when I was starting out, I was able to use my Canon G6 for smaller informal weddings. Doing a medium size to large wedding would be nuts though, unless it was your family or close friends. Another nice but expensive advantage is that you can use the appropriate lens for the event. For weddings I use a Canon 350D Rebel XT, usually with the Canon EF 24-70 f/2.8L in low light and EF 24-105 f/4L IS USM under better lighting conditions, but those are +US$1,300 each. On the lower end of the spectrum, I've used the the EF-S 17-85 and the EF 28-135 and they've worked well.

For flashes, I really like the 580EX speedlite on a bracket, though you could get away with the 430EX. And I highly recommend the Lightsphere II diffuser (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?ci=1&sb=ps&pn=1&sq=desc&InitialSearch=yes&O=productlist.jsp&A=search&Q=*&bhs=t&shs=gary+fon&image.x=10&image.y=3) by Gary Fong, make sure you get the correct one for your speedlite.

As for who does more work, having done both, I know the photographer has the more difficult job. I think a good wedding photographer is worth two good wedding videographers. The reason it's so intensive is that you really have to get in there as the photographer, face to face, up close to all the relatives, guests, and commotion. And you have to take charge in every case, being both commanding and humble at the same time while ordering around the bride, groom, mother-in-law, and all the assorted relatives into place, getting their permission while at the same time, telling them exactly what you need to get the photographs you know they want. It's a lot of fun, but it's also a lot of stress. I always feel like I'm on vacation when I get do a videography job right after finishing a wedding photography gig.

The plus side to photography vs. videography is that at the end of each event, I feel like I've gotten to know all the people, and they've developed a small relationship with me, something you don't always get when doing the videography.

I personally don't see how the things in your 3rd paragraph is any different than a videographer. The only difference is that we're taking 30 pictures every second (in the US, anyway). I still have to confront the various relatives and guests for interviews, and often times I've had to to rely on zooming into people because they don't like being on video and run when they see us coming. The video crew has to know the wedding party and their family just as much as the photographer. If I had to pay someone to videotape my event, no matter what it is, I want to know the person/people doing it. The Fly-By-Night videographers are actually doing The Good Guys a favor, in a sense, because they're making the consumer a little more conscious about what they're buying into... thus getting to know us.

-Michael

I shoot both photography and videography. Lucky for me my business is finally making the jump from weddings to commercial/broadcast :-) (took about five years of being an obsessed "profectionist").

I use the Nikon D2X, expo disk, fast Nikkor lenses (mostly the 17-55mm F2.8), off camera SB800 w/light sphere 2-w/ remote radio slave firing a quantum flash w/soft box.

For the videography side I use the PD-170 w/boatloads of professional accessories.

Each side has pros and cons. For Photography, I can gross tune 400-500 Raw files after a wedding in only four hours, batch them into jpeg’s, then upload them to my lab that does the fine tuning. The prints ship the next day. Down side is dealing with people.........Michael is right about posing people all day. Alot of hidden work with photography like album assembly.

For Videography- I can honestly say people put it behind photography. I give the videographers that stick with weddings alot of respect. Endless post, tons of stress, more probability something could go wrong, picky brides...oh I could go on.

Wedding photography and commercial video/photography is the way to go. Like all businesses, you will grow to a point and stop until you hire people and just trust them to not screw up.

-John

As for who does more work, having done both, I know the photographer has the more difficult job. I think a good wedding photographer is worth two good wedding videographers. The reason it's so intensive is that you really have to get in there as the photographer, face to face, up close to all the relatives, guests, and commotion. And you have to take charge in every case, being both commanding and humble at the same time while ordering around the bride, groom, mother-in-law, and all the assorted relatives into place, getting their permission while at the same time, telling them exactly what you need to get the photographs you know they want. It's a lot of fun, but it's also a lot of stress. I always feel like I'm on vacation when I get do a videography job right after finishing a wedding photography gig.


Michael,

If you're the type photographer who's "getting in there" up close and personal to get the shots......I already know what style you shoot. Most of the best photographers hate to shoot that way at weddings unless requested by brides/grooms. It sounds like a lot of "say cheese" to the camera to me.

If you feel like you're on vactation shooting video at a wedding.....again, I'd love to see what your producing but it sounds like you're just kickin' back with cam on sticks.....and hit the record button.

You're statements are way off.....and to say that you "know" that the photographers job is more difficult......like I said, I'd love to check out the work.

Soooo, should I not try it with my Fugi s7000 and get something else, or give my fuji a good upgrade? I did order a flash for it from B&H, but that's jsut for the snapshot stuff we do.

Soooo, should I not try it with my Fugi s7000 and get something else, or give my fuji a good upgrade? I did order a flash for it from B&H, but that's jsut for the snapshot stuff we do.

I'd be a little concerned about the small sensor size for professional work, and it wouldn't be a bad idea to have two functional cameras available in case of equipment malfunction. So my vote would be to get an inexpensive digital SLR like the Canon Rebel XT, which has recently dropped in price. That way you've got a better, more professional camera for all future such work, and you've got a nice backup camera with your Fuji.

And don't worry about what some people say about photography being more demanding and challenging than videography. It's a different kind of challenge, but it's certainly no harder than making a good video. For one thing, you don't have to worry about shooting around the photographer...

;-)

Feel free to post why you think I'm wrong, I'm all ears ... but please keep in mind, personal attacks are not allowed on DV Info.

Steven, I agree with several of the previous posters, you know the couple/wedding best, but generally, it's best to have a dedicated person doing the photography, and a DSLR is highly recommended for the reasons listed above. Using the Fuji as a backup, as Kevin mentioned, is a great idea.

My statement stands as is.....no need to go any further with it, because I really don't care how much harder you think your job is as a photographer.



Feel free to post why you think I'm wrong, I'm all ears ... but please keep in mind, personal attacks are not allowed on DV Info.

Steven, I agree with several of the previous posters, you know the couple/wedding best, but generally, it's best to have a dedicated person doing the photography, and a DSLR is highly recommended for the reasons listed above. Using the Fuji as a backup, as Kevin mentioned, is a great idea.

Interesting topic i msut say..

shooting for several phtogs and running my own video business i have to say on the day, the photography is a little more difficult.. in post, video is definately more time consuming. Also i find that people respect photographers more so they expect to pay more and EXPECT a photographer to behave in a certain manner, whereas with video, that negative stigma of "camera in your face" still stands (even if its not your style)

as for me, im giving up the video game as soon as i can fund a new kit (+backup) for a DSLR.. <im looking at a 10k budget> for me, the work is faster and therefore much more fulfilling and with a family, the $$, the post prod work, and the level of respect really makes the move across back to stills just that much more appealing.. .

Hi guys, just on the topic of whether photography or video production is harder...

I started assiting my dad in photography when I was 8 years old - I also started doing video production for weddings when i was 16 and can't even count how many weddings I been - but it's over a 1000 somewhere. In total - between the two I've been working it 22 years.

I have shot photos for full weddings as well as video in a 30/70 ratio over the years respectively with functions ranging from 30 people to 3000+ people. I have to say that I peresonally find video production is more demanding overall but not by a whole lot. Depends on the wedding I guess.

Videographers have just as much intervention with the people at the wedding - photographers are more in touch with the bridal party and immediate family most of the day - videographers are kickin it with the whole crowd generally - interviews, on the dance floor + the bridal party.
Videographers don't have to confront as much because video looks good the way it is -people can be doing anything and the natural flow of things looks nice - that's the idea of the video - whereas photographers have to confront and control more because they are after the 1 frame that must be perfect. Expression, mood, lighting, focus, framing etc must be right on - or the shot will be rejected.

Again - I say this purely from a production/technical perspective.

The videographer has worry about continuity of the footage, you are affected by existing lighting restrictions more often, have to make adjustments on the fly, have to capture audio as well, and also spend a lot of time in post getting the cuts/audio and any creative spots together.
I do a lot of post work for photography and post is generally simpler. I get the raws - clean, color correct, crop and upload the photos from C1 - lab prints em up (sure it takes 5 hours+- but much easier than editing a whole wedding video) Pics come in - enlargements are selected - re-crop - double check expsoure/color - upload (2 hours) - prints come back and into the albums - another 3-4 hours depending on the number of pics / type of album.

In support of photographers again- it totally depends on the wedding. I'd say about 15-20% of the weddings I do - the photography component is more demanding because couples' preferences. They don't want me to be everywhere the photographer is, they prefer less footage of the dance, just want a simple production - but my dad who is on the stills is going bezerk while things are going on easy for me. Sometimes couples don't care at all for video and hire 2 of us for photography only.

It also depends on how much pride the photographer and videographer take in their work. You can chill ur way through any job in the world - or break your back striving for top notch results - that will often effect your perception and others.

I know one thing - when i do either job I need a day to recover from physical and mental fatigue. ha ha

Finally - The couples attitude also makes a difference - sometimes you want to do everything for them and sometimes you just plain hate their guts and couldn't care less :)

Just my 2 cents.
Paul

I'd be a little concerned about the small sensor size for professional work, and it wouldn't be a bad idea to have two functional cameras available in case of equipment malfunction. So my vote would be to get an inexpensive digital SLR like the Canon Rebel XT, which has recently dropped in price. That way you've got a better, more professional camera for all future such work, and you've got a nice backup camera with your Fuji.

And don't worry about what some people say about photography being more demanding and challenging than videography. It's a different kind of challenge, but it's certainly no harder than making a good video. For one thing, you don't have to worry about shooting around the photographer...

;-)


Thanks, that sounds like a good plan. I have about 8 months before this gig so I can be patient with what is out there in terms of slrs and snatch up a good one, might try to get a wide lense as well.

For those who read this and saw it changed... I removed this post because it was pointless and written when I was upset.

-Michael

Also i find that people respect photographers more so they expect to pay more and EXPECT a photographer to behave in a certain manner, whereas with video, that negative stigma of "camera in your face" still stands (even if its not your style).

That's ironic considering many photographers are now far more intrusive than videographers, other than maybe when we're using on-camera lights at the reception. I've seen photographers circling in teams like vultures or walking up onto the altar to get closeups during a wedding ceremony, plus using cameras with loud shutters and bright flashes during both weddings and religious events. There may be videographers who are similarly intrusive, but in general we don't move around as much or make as much commotion as today's typical photographers. Plus now with digital photography some photographers are reportedly shooting almost continuously to the point where they might as well be making a video, except with constant flashing and clicking as an added attraction.

With all due respect to truly professional photographers, it's become an unseemly profession the way it's being practiced by many. I'm starting to get calls from people who are having their friends do the photography and just want a good video, which makes sense to me give how easy it is to do competent photography with today's equipment. But few amateurs have the equipment or know-how to make a decent video, and that isn't likely to change soon from what I've seen.

I'm a rube in this business, but I'm learning first hand about Kevin's comments concerning unprofessional still photogs. Here's a tiny clip from an April wedding I did--does this crap happen often with the rest of you? I'm only on my 3rd wedding, so I'm hoping this is the exception. Didn't have nearly the trouble with the 2nd one...
http://www.firsttakestudios.com/demos/myfriendthephotog.wmv
Thanks-Vin

I'm a rube in this business, but I'm learning first hand about Kevin's comments concerning unprofessional still photogs. Here's a tiny clip from an April wedding I did--does this crap happen often with the rest of you? I'm only on my 3rd wedding, so I'm hoping this is the exception. Didn't have nearly the trouble with the 2nd one...
http://www.firsttakestudios.com/demos/myfriendthephotog.wmv
Thanks-VinWhat are we supposed to be looking for in this clip?

The still photogs autofocus laser continuously lighting the b & g...I guess it's just something I'll have to deal with. Any way to clean it up in post? The one shooting the second wedding didn't have it going off nearly as continously...

Vincent....that photog. wasn't being unprofessional....and yes, that red light periodically is common. that has nothing to do with the photog being unprofessional. no need to worry to much about that one.....perhaps be more carefull with your editing.....ie. edit bits out like that when you can which maybe you already do.

dont sweat it too much.





The still photogs autofocus laser continuously lighting the b & g...I guess it's just something I'll have to deal with. Any way to clean it up in post? The one shooting the second wedding didn't have it going off nearly as continously...

As for teh red gridding, sure it may be running a focus assist, but like us, they need this to get a decent focussed shot in low light. In our case, we run continuous lighting, in their case red grids with a flash following suite. This is usually dependant on the lens used on teh camera, or if shooting stills a combination of lens and film speeds
If thats what happened on the day, so be it, u cant change it and i wouldnt bother trying to change it.... either on the day or after the fact. Its an element thats beyond ur control and i no longer worry about those kinda things if i dont have to.

As for your own video, i would definately consider dithching the mentality of "i dont need a light" Even a 25w spotty woud have made your vidoeo 100times better.. Im not being critical, so dont take it personally, but the Photogs red eye reduction and speedlight assisted grid auto focus is not something you should worry about, in this case, this particualr clip is in sore need of colour enhancement and noise reduction as to my eye, its a misaligned WB red wash out. The Photogs incessant red spotting is not a concern when looking at the whole picture you have here. The couple wont be looking at the red spotting, theyll be looking at your overall image quality. I would be worried about THAT more than spend my energy worrying about something beyond my control

That's ironic considering many photographers are now far more intrusive than videographers, other than maybe when we're using on-camera lights at the reception. I've seen photographers circling in teams like vultures or walking up onto the altar to get closeups during a wedding ceremony, plus using cameras with loud shutters and bright flashes during both weddings and religious events. There may be videographers who are similarly intrusive, but in general we don't move around as much or make as much commotion as today's typical photographers. Plus now with digital photography some photographers are reportedly shooting almost continuously to the point where they might as well be making a video, except with constant flashing and clicking as an added attraction.

With all due respect to truly professional photographers, it's become an unseemly profession the way it's being practiced by many. I'm starting to get calls from people who are having their friends do the photography and just want a good video, which makes sense to me give how easy it is to do competent photography with today's equipment. But few amateurs have the equipment or know-how to make a decent video, and that isn't likely to change soon from what I've seen.
Here in Oz, its actually the opposite.. people hiring Pro Photo as opposed to video due to uncle bobs handycam and pirated version of Pinnacle Studio 7...
In addition to what youve written here, with teh DSLRs of today, the shutter sound CAN be turned off.. but the photogs DONT do this coz they need an audible way of knowing theyve taken the shot.. god knows why they cant look in the EVF.... anyways... as for video, here in aus, only 15% of the wedding market actually hires one, while 80% of weddings have a pro video.. these figures suck the big one.

Ive done ceremonis where photogs have actually STOPPED the ceremony to get a shot of the rings being put on the couples hands.. hell i can tell u some horror stories of photogs assistants deliberatly walking into my shots, following me like a bad smell due to their lack of experience, or taking credit for compositions i have done for video.... I give the photog a chance to get some stills while im setting up certain "candid" shots. And usually its these photos which are blown up and put on a wall...
I dont let that worry me, as plagiuarism is rampant in this industry. In the end though, it just lets me know exactly who the true professional is...

There ARE ways to do both jobs in a nondescript, unobtrusive manner. People however (general public) expect the photog to BE obtrusive and in most cases, running a video light is not as obtrusive as a demanding photographer whos trying to build a portfolio simply coz the bride is a porn star an the groom is an adonis.

You'll find that those wanting to create portfolios for themselves will go out of their way to get a stupid number of shots if teh couple "look" good.. For a plain jane, they wont get this treatment. I can tell u that 90% of weddings i have done, this has been the case.. for those already established its not as profound or obvious, but when the couple is on a budget, most of teh time, theyre young and paying their own way. This means theyre probably hiring newbies, in turn, thesenewbies take the opportunity to milk the gig for what they can...

with the DSLRs of today, the shutter sound CAN be turned off.. but the photogs DONT do this coz they need an audible way of knowing theyve taken the shot.. god knows why they cant look in the EVF....
Actually a proper Digital SLR still has a mirror that has to flip up out of the way when taking a photo, so it still has to make the noise unfortunately. Also it does not have an EVF (electronic view finder) - it is still optical like a film SLR.

The million dollar question in all of this is, once you're offering both photography and videography, what can you do to minimize the impacts of either one on the other? In an ideal world video cameras would offer good enough frame grab results to negate the need for a still camera any time a video camera is running, and then photography would only be needed for formal posed shots. Since that's not quite the case yet there's going to be an ongoing need/desire to have the photographer try to get the same shots the videographer is trying to get, and that's going to cause problems even when they're actively working together.

The million dollar question in all of this is, once you're offering both photography and videography, what can you do to minimize the impacts of either one on the other? In an ideal world video cameras would offer good enough frame grab results to negate the need for a still camera any time a video camera is running, and then photography would only be needed for formal posed shots. Since that's not quite the case yet there's going to be an ongoing need/desire to have the photographer try to get the same shots the videographer is trying to get, and that's going to cause problems even when they're actively working together.


We offer both and usually bring a crew of 4 to most weddings for photo and video combined. With 4-5 video cameras, and 3 being stationary, we can usually avoid having the crew in the photo or video and still can get the shots. There are also some shots where I think having the crew in the shot can add to it. The photosession would be the obvious example, but there are other times throughout the day I think you can use the crew within the work to make it better.

Peter-
This is not processed footage, but raw footage taken by my 2nd cameraman who had gone with manual settings and had the fstop too high and, you guessed it, didn't white balance. It was our first wedding, we didn't charge anything, and I would never pass footage like that to anyone. I only posted it due to the autofocus laser grid from the photog-
You're right about using lights--the b&g had wanted no extra lights, and the reception was very dark. That, combined with the wrong settings created the crappy quality footage you saw. Thanks for the advice, though.

Actually a proper Digital SLR still has a mirror that has to flip up out of the way when taking a photo, so it still has to make the noise unfortunately. Also it does not have an EVF (electronic view finder) - it is still optical like a film SLR.
What would you call a 'proper" DSLR???

in this game, in this day and age, most are using 20d's and D70's. Every 5th photographer is using a 1ds and im yet to meet someone whos using a Hassel digital back...

on the most common DSLRs in the wedding industry the shutter sound CAN be turned off... which is why i dont understrand what your reference to "proper" dslrs is all about.. im not talking about DSLRs in general, im talking about the DSLRs in use in todays wedding market...

Vince,
Misaligned cameras happens to the best of us on occasion, the trisk is to set 2 seperate WB's for lights on and off..

with regard to client requesting no lights, i dont give them an option, unless they make it an issue PRIOR to signing the contract. In that case, i disavow all liability to the image quality upon reference to the clients request..
In the end, they usually dont worry about lights and let me use my discretion. I wouldnt be taking on 60 weddings a year if i didnt know what i was doing...

As for darkened rooms, im usually good with alot of the venues here in sydney so i know most of the Matre'd and MC's by name, but that still doesnt mean anythign unless i approach them...
i usualy ask them to up the ambience a bit.. even 1 or 2 stops can make a huge difference. While theyre diong it, i stand there with the camera so they can see what im doing. Once they understand that your not really asking for much, and they can see for themseles the difference it makes, the more helpful they wil become. U have to remember, that these venues rely on you to represent the clients recpetion as best you can, this way THEY look good to the client.. If its too dark, people will more likely comment on the dark environment as opposed to your dark footage.
Dont be afraid to ask to get the lights raised if it means saving you from running a light.

What would you call a 'proper" DSLR???

in this game, in this day and age, most are using 20d's and D70's. Every 5th photographer is using a 1ds and im yet to meet someone whos using a Hassel digital back...

on the most common DSLRs in the wedding industry the shutter sound CAN be turned off... which is why i dont understrand what your reference to "proper" dslrs is all about.. im not talking about DSLRs in general, im talking about the DSLRs in use in todays wedding market...

For the record, Canon DSLRs do not have any way to turn off the shutter "sound" ... many times referred to as mirror slap.

The 20D is louder than the older 10D. I've heard varying opinions as to whether or not the 5D is louder than the 20D.

Believe me ... if there was anyway to turn off the sound we would. It is not an option.

"For the record, Canon DSLRs do not have any way to turn off the shutter "sound" ... many times referred to as mirror slap."

wierd, must be the geographic release build then, coz ive asked about 3 photogs to kill the "slap" hehehehe and theyve been able to do it...
Its actually quite freaky to see flashes go off but not hear anything, and these guys have used 20d's (ive only asked canon guys who ive worked with before)

I'll see if i can find any more info, but they did turn off the slapping

I'm no wedding videographer, and thanks to this very enjoyable thread, I'll resist the temptation to become one for at least another year (I'm a teacher with summers off). Even as an amateur producing pretty good three-cam DVDs of stage productions just to preserve memories and make people happy, I'm all too familiar with the general thanklessness of the endeavor.

But Peter, when you're ready to can it all, you still have a writing career in front of you.

After reading through this thread I should be scared off from the prospect of doing both photo and video. No offense to anyone involved, but the animosity between the two industries is very clear. But, despite this thread, I intend to make this a business goal for the next year. Biggest difference is that I wouldn't be trying to do it myself. I don't see how that would even be remotely possible. My wife has a keen eye and is very well at directing people, so I want to add photography as part of our package. I think that we would get more video jobs along with the photography rather than someone looking for video and wanting to add photography. That's how my current arrangement works. My cousin does photography, I do video. When he gets a job that wants video he calls me. When I get a video job and ask if they'd like a package deal with photography, every couple I've talked to already has the photographer booked. So, I might as well cut out the referral fee to my cousin and do this with my wife. Makes my world easier too because it will be easier to work with her than a stranger. Most photographers in the area are easy to work with. Most aren't exactly warm, but I've yet to meet one who hasn't been civil. So, that's my current plan. If anyone has warnings please voice them now. =)

If anyone has warnings please voice them now. =)

When you do go into doing both, make sure you get along with yourself at the wedding, don't get in the way of your own shot, don't take control of the bride and grooms movements from yourself, and by all means pay yourself the referral fee.

Thanks for the belly laughs, Steve. I almost had coffee come out of my nose...