Hey guys, thanks for answering my $300 equipment question. I have a Wide Angle and a Fisheye on the way for my VX2100.

My first wedding is April 21 and I need some advice on how and when to use these lenses. I should have a fast dsl connection this Friday so I'll be able to view some sample clips from the board. The only wedding video I've seen was my sister's from 14 years ago.

Anyway, the new lenses are screw on, so I imagine I'll practice taking them on and off to increase my speed and agility.

I currently have a screw on uv filter on camera. I imagine this would need to be removed before attaching either new lens. Right? If this is the case, should I just leave the uv filter at home when I go to the wedding?

I can just envision myself fumbliing around with these lenses and missing important shots.

I'll have two cameras going for the wedding. Should I shoot the bulk of my wedding using the wide angle lens and just use the fisheye when I'm doing a bride prep or a dance at the reception?

Thanks Scott

Hi Scott

Not used a fish eye for video, but in photos I found it had a very limited use... much like an effects filter, that I used one very very rarely...

Personally I'd only use it for say a cut away shot of the whole church and congregation... but wouldn't over use it...

this will free you up to get you bread and butter footage...

Just my opinion...

Cheers
G

In my experience I've never changed lens during a wedding. I will generally use my 150s for PREP with a WA attachment since I'm usually in fairly close quarters but for the ceremony and reception I use the standard lens (if I'm shooting with the 150) except when the dance floor gets really crowed then I'll use the WA as I like to get on the dance floor with the people.
But again for ceremonies I've never used a WA so no changing necessary.
Don

The best way to changes lens during an event is to change cameras. Not the most affordable solution, but you dont miss important things either.

I have successfully used a fisheye during dancing and some highlights, but you have to judge the couple's taste before doing this.

Patrick- you are way off, this is not still photography, i can get a WA lens off or on in 10 seconds max. first off, chances are.....especially since the original poster has never shot a wedding video nor has he seen a video in fourteen yrs...the last thing he should be doing is lens changes during a ceremony, he has a lot to learn about producing wedding videos in general and this seems low on the list to be concerned with....but the best way is not to have 2 video cameras with seperate lenses.......way too much money not to mention who will "watch" the other cam if he is flying solo on the shoot???? You NEVER leave cam gear alone on these shoots.....theft happens all the time in churches, reception venus, etc.



The best way to changes lens during an event is to change cameras. Not the most affordable solution, but you dont miss important things either.

I have successfully used a fisheye during dancing and some highlights, but you have to judge the couple's taste before doing this.

Patrick- you are way off, this is not still photography, i can get a WA lens off or on in 10 seconds max. first off, chances are.....especially since the original poster has never shot a wedding video nor has he seen a video in fourteen yrs...the last thing he should be doing is lens changes during a ceremony, he has a lot to learn about producing wedding videos in general and this seems low on the list to be concerned with....but the best way is not to have 2 video cameras with seperate lenses.......way too much money not to mention who will "watch" the other cam if he is flying solo on the shoot???? You NEVER leave cam gear alone on these shoots.....theft happens all the time in churches, reception venus, etc.

I'll have to agree with this. I wouldn't bother having a second camera solely for the purpose of being able to switch over to a fish-eye or WA lens. They are quickly screwed on and off.

In response to the original questions, you don't need to take that UV filter off Scott. Personally I keep a UV filter on my camera all the time in order to keep the original lens from getting scratched or dirty. It's easier to clean a UV filter than the lens anyway as I shoot with a DVX100A. That guard on it makes access to the lens a bit tougher. The UV filter doesn't do too much optically (as long as you have a good one) so adding your wide angle or fish-eye lens should be fine. It will be quicker that way and easier for you.

As others have mentioned, I wouldn't use the fish-eye except for rare shots. Maybe establishing shots or a few moving shots. Use it too much and most audiences won't like it. The fish-eye lens has its place, but sometimes it is overdone. The wide angle lens (how wide is it? 0.6x, 0.5x?) you can use for many different situations. As others have said, I'd reserve it for the reception where you want to capture more of the 'big picture'. For the wedding you'll be tight with one of your cams and your balcony/rear camera is already far enough to be as wide as you'll probably need. Those are my thoughts on the original question. Best of luck to you.

The wide angle is the Canon WD-58H (.7)

The fisheye is the cheapest thing I could find and I will probably dissapointed and embarrassed by it, but I gotta try.

I understand about the limited fish use. I'd just want to use it take pictures of the church building and maybe something that is staged where I have time to make the change.

Someone mentioned a "150". I don't know what that is.

I won't put the wide angle on until I get to the reception or I've got a staged interview up close in a tight room (per this thread's advice).

I also now get that I can screw the lenses over the uv filter. I assume I'll have to go without my camera's hood or use a special one if I use these lenses. Right? And am I correct in thinking the hood is mainly for sunlight protection and bumping protection?

Thanks,
Scott

If you really want to use the lens go ahead but instead of screw mounts why not get bayonet mount. Faster, easier and less chance of messing up the filter threads. Should be the same price as well (or within a few bucks)

I agree that 1 camera probably wouldn't need the WA and the other will or should be close enough to get great shots without it. For the reception your idea of using the WA for tight areas if you're doing interviews is fine just keep in mind that sometimes people get really uptight being in front of the camera to begin with and then with the WA on the camera you're going to be pretty much right on top of them. Just something to think about.

Don

Scott,

Instead of changing lenses, consider different filters. For indoor ceremonies, I use the Tiffen SF/3. It softens the image and gives the flame on candles that "romantic" glow. Brides-to-be want it when I show them the difference with it on and off & ask which they prefer. This particular filter does not work well outdoors, however.

There are all sorts of filters for different effects, and most cost a lot less than a special lens.

As far as a wide angle lens, its useful (for me) when I have to shoot from the audience side & the wedding party is spread across most of the front of the church, or when I shoot from the front and want to get the crowd shot -- if there is a crowd. Other than that, I use the standard lens for the ceremony, reception & all else.

Filters! Oh yeah, that's something I've been meaning to ask about for a long time. When I look at BH Photo I see multiple sizes 49, 67, 77mm... That throws me.

So to get me started, (I have GL1 and VX2100), what sizes do I look for? If I put Filter A on the Sony, should I put an identical filter on the Canon?

What are the most common/useful ones to start with. I know Tom mentioned Tiffen SF/3, but I wasn't coming up with anything using that term on BH.

Thanks,
Scott

Here's a good place to find out a bit about different filters:
http://dvcreators.net/ws/tiffen-filters

If you shop around a bit, you can find lower prices elsewhere.

So to get me started, (I have GL1 and VX2100), what sizes do I look for? If I put Filter A on the Sony, should I put an identical filter on the Canon?

You happen to be in luck here. Cameras have all kinds of different thread sizes. The Canon GL-1 and the Sony VX2100 both have a 58mm thread size. Look for filters with a 58mm thread size and you'll be fine. You're lucky to have both cameras with the same thread size. My DVX100A has a 72mm thread size, as does the Sony FX1/Z1U. There are a variety of sizes for all types of cameras, which is why there are so many different sizes of filters.

Filters! Oh yeah, that's something I've been meaning to ask about for a long time. When I look at BH Photo I see multiple sizes 49, 67, 77mm... That throws me.

So to get me started, (I have GL1 and VX2100), what sizes do I look for? If I put Filter A on the Sony, should I put an identical filter on the Canon?

What are the most common/useful ones to start with. I know Tom mentioned Tiffen SF/3, but I wasn't coming up with anything using that term on BH.

Thanks,
Scott
Those numbers refer to the different thread sizes, depending on which camera you are using. You had asked about the 150's earlier, and I noticed that nobody repsonded to your question. I believe that may be a shorter name for the Sony DSR-PD150's. The newer models are PD170's. These two Sony cameras have a front thread screw of 58mm, if I am not mistaken. I am not sure what thread screw the VX2100 and the GL1/GL2 have. You can simply check by looking at the front of the lens, and it will normally be labeled what size in mm it is.

Thanks for the "150" answer. Yes, I was imagining a 150mm lens and having lens envy.

When I was reading about Tiffen filters, the page said to leave the UV Protector on to protect the lens. The statement didn't clarify it for me.

Does the UV Protector go under the enhancement filter or does the enhancement filter go over the UV Protector?

I also noticed that my Canon has a standard UV Protector Filter and my Sony has a Haze-1 Filter. I realize the cameras are different and will output different colors but will two different filters like that cause me even more problems? Is it worth the extra $12 to get a standard UV Protector for the Sony and put away the Haze-1?

I did buy two Tiffen SF/3 filters last night for both cameras. Should I use these filters through all the parts of the wedding and reception (I would think the reception has less light) or are there obvious times when I should be removing them?

Also, if you can sandwich an SF/3 filter with a UV/Filter. And you can put a WA Lens over a UV Protector. Can you triple sandwich a WA over a SF/3 and UV Protector?

I now have to add to the above UV Protector confusion because I went to BH Photo and saw a "Wide Angle" Tiffen UV Protector. And that's making me think I can't use my current 58mm UV Protector if I use a Wide Angle Lens.

So I'm really having trouble deciphering the physical locations on the camera for lenses and filters.
-Scott

I did buy two Tiffen SF/3 filters last night for both cameras. Should I use these filters through all the parts of the wedding and reception (I would think the reception has less light) or are there obvious times when I should be removing them?

I use the SF/3 only for the ceremony and only if it's indoors. As I mentioned previously, it softens the image and gives candles a nice glow. Also good to use if you're filming the bride prep. I haven't used it at a reception.

Don't use it outdoors, especially in bright sunlight. Look at the filter when you get it and you will see it has sort of a bumpy surface. This is what diffuses the light for the softening + glow effect. Outdoors, when sunlight hits it, your video will look as tho there were raindrops on the lens. This is not a desireable special effect.

If you're new at this, the challenge will be to remember to remove the filter before going outside to film the birdseed and bubbles. There's a lot going on in a very short amount of time, and it's easy to get caught up in filming but then forgetting to get your camera(s) set up for the move from indoors to outdoors.

Tom, thanks for the indoor/outdoor instructions! What about the location "sandwiching" of the filters and lenses?
-Scott

Never done it, never even considered doing it. But that's just me.

Thanks for the "150" answer. Yes, I was imagining a 150mm lens and having lens envy.

When I was reading about Tiffen filters, the page said to leave the UV Protector on to protect the lens. The statement didn't clarify it for me.

Does the UV Protector go under the enhancement filter or does the enhancement filter go over the UV Protector?

I also noticed that my Canon has a standard UV Protector Filter and my Sony has a Haze-1 Filter. I realize the cameras are different and will output different colors but will two different filters like that cause me even more problems? Is it worth the extra $12 to get a standard UV Protector for the Sony and put away the Haze-1?

I did buy two Tiffen SF/3 filters last night for both cameras. Should I use these filters through all the parts of the wedding and reception (I would think the reception has less light) or are there obvious times when I should be removing them?

Also, if you can sandwich an SF/3 filter with a UV/Filter. And you can put a WA Lens over a UV Protector. Can you triple sandwich a WA over a SF/3 and UV Protector?
You can stack as many filters as you wish upon each other, but I personally would not advise that you stack too many together. As for the different filters, I would advise you use the same type of filters on each camera, if you want the video to look as close as possible before hitting your editing station. I am not sure what effect the Haze-1 filter gives the camera.

As for always having a UV filter on, it is a very good idea. It's much cheaper to replace a UV filter if anything ever accidentally hits the front lens of the camera than it is to replace the actually camera lens or the camera itself. As for the WA lens, you have the option of using it on top of the UV filter, or getting a WA lens with a UV filter. My advice is to go with the UV filter, and then add your WA. You may not always want the WA on, but you should always have a basic covering (UV filter or other) for the camera lens, as I stated earlier.

Scott,
Do yourself a favor. Put your WA lens on and leave it there. Weddings are tough to cover and require your full attention especially if you're on your own. Concentrate on the basics like framing, exposure and clean audio rather than fiddling with lens changes. Everytime you change a lens you run the risk of smearing it and then you'll have to take more time for a cleaning.
Bob

A few things that people haven't mentioned yet. It has been said that you can stack as many filters as you want. This is true, but at some point you're going to see the edges of those filters in your shot and you'll get vignetting. While this is sometimes wanted as an artistic element, it's generally not used for the entire ceremony. So beware of stacking 3 or more filters. Even 2 can sometimes cause vignetting based on the thickness of the filters.

Also, the 'Haze' filter on your Sony is just another UV filter. Sometimes they are called UV or Haze filters. It's generally synonymous. If you really, really, really want to get so nit-picky as to have the same brand on the camera that's fine, but the optical difference will be minor. People will notice differentation in color far more quickly than what UV filter was on the cam (if they notice that at all).

Just thought this might help.

Scott, I change lenses constantly when shooting prep and photosessions. I usually switch between a .3x fisheye and a .55x bayonette mount. I have the Canon WD-58 but it's not very wide- though DOES have full zoom through which can be nice. It's a bit large and heavy compared to the .3 and .55's.

The .3x fisheye is a great lense to get some unique shots. They are great for shooting establishing shots and monopod crane moves. Just be carefull shooting subjects with the .3x- if you try to shoot physically close the distortion will affect the way the subject looks on screen similar to a circus mirror.

The best style of lense for the quick on and off shooting is bayonette mount- however the only bayonette mount fish eye is the Century Optics .3x which is heavy, large, and VERY expensive.

Two things on filters.

If you are thinking about using filters often, spend the bucks and get a matte box that accepte 4x4 filters. They swap out quick, clean easy and you can stack to your harts content without vignetting. Get a matte box that has at least two static stages and a rotating stage (for a pol)

Second, beware of stacking too many filters (other that UV/Haze) indoors. Weddings are dark enough and too many filters may stop you down so far you have to use gain. Watch for that.

Hey guys, I was gone over the weekend. My SF3 filters were in the mail box and I read your posts. Mike Cook mentioned something about the Haze 1 filter, but I think there was a typo, so it wasn't clear. Any way, I did replace it with a UV Protector. I've noticed that I got an enormous amount of extra blue when using the haze indoors at a play shot in a school cafeteria (as opposed to the second camera with a UV protector only). I'm guessing it was because of the Haze1. I didn't know any thing about anything before I started reading these forums and I'm learning slowly.

I see where the filters do screw on together. I haven't shot with them sandwiched yet, but I can see how there could be a vignette. The one thing I did notice was that with two filters, the lens hood doesn't fit any more.

So here I go to this wedding (won't have a wide angle or a fisheye- ran out of money). It's a 5:30 wedding. It won't get dark until 8:00. That means I'll have to shoot some outside.

I already heard the SF3 filter won't cut it in daylight. I'm wondering about going without the hood. I know that hood will protect the lenses from bumping. Does it make a huge difference not using one in the sunlight. I think I would get a lot of glare without a hood but I don't know.

So I'm thinking I start the wedding on the outside with the uv protector and hood. Go inside. Store hood in the bag and shoot everything inside the church using the sf3 filter on top of the uv protector.

When going outside to shoot the rice throwing, remove the sf3 filter and replace the hood. Get to the reception, remove the hood and put the sf3 filter back on and shoot with the hood off.

Is that how you guys would do it?

Matte box? I heard the word a few times and then also heard the word expensive. I'll look it up and get some more education on it.

I did shoot the love story interview Friday. Wow! I see why you guys use wide angles. I had to back the camera up and there wasn't a lot of space in that room. I can see how a wide angle is going to be a necessity. I also see that I only need one Wide Angle, where as I need two identical filters for both cameras.

Glenn said he has WD-58, which is what I was about to get, and then he said it wasn't very wide. I recall that being about $175. So is there something that is wider with some zoom through capabability at the $275 price level? Since I'm only looking to put the lens on one camera, I could see where I'd want it to have some utility.

-Scott

I use the SF/3 only for the ceremony and only if it's indoors. As I mentioned previously, it softens the image and gives candles a nice glow. Also good to use if you're filming the bride prep. I haven't used it at a reception.

Don't use it outdoors, especially in bright sunlight. Look at the filter when you get it and you will see it has sort of a bumpy surface. This is what diffuses the light for the softening + glow effect. Outdoors, when sunlight hits it, your video will look as tho there were raindrops on the lens. This is not a desireable special effect.

If you're new at this, the challenge will be to remember to remove the filter before going outside to film the birdseed and bubbles. There's a lot going on in a very short amount of time, and it's easy to get caught up in filming but then forgetting to get your camera(s) set up for the move from indoors to outdoors.

One thing about filters like this though is that if your camera has an extreme macro configuraiton, liek a DVX100, the rippled glass WILL be visible. the DVX can shoot in distance of about 10cms from teh lense at full macro and these filters ARE noticable.. zoom in a bit and youll be right..

As most of what i shoot is indoors, and i shoot weddings with a DVX, what i usually do is this..

Indoor- No filters on camera when indoors. No UV blow outs to worry about and one less piece of glass to keep clean
Outdoors- UV filter in shaded areas, but u MUST watch where your shooting and where your light source is coming from. U dont want afew specs on ur filter to ruin a shot.. it happens if ur a full wide macro and on DVX100 its VERY noticable. Thats just the way the lens works..
Outdoors - in glaring light i run the cameras ND filters. Same with the Z1's. Very effective, but more importantly than that, learn your Polarisers...
A polariser gets rid of glare. Its a dark blue filter, much like sunglasses, and it gets rid of excessive flaring and reflection. These filters are great to shoot water and through reflective glass, ie, if ur shooting through a window or if your shooting out of a moving car etc etc.
The differences between polarisers and circular polarisers is that polarisers are fixed filters. They dont move and u cant tweak it. Circular have a seperate mount to the lense bracket (these are only one element filters) but u can turn it like a focus ring to "tweak" your flares and reflections.
I usually shoot timelapse sunsets, bright sunrises, excessively reflective water, sillouettes into the sun, etc etc For highly exposed areas, these filters work as an additional ND and allow u to shoot excessive detail without the need to blow out the shot

If your camera needs a WA lens, id recommend a .5 for basics, for fx work a fisheeye .3
for macro, depends on ur camera, but the DVX doesnt need it, but if u DO need one, u can use some Stil camera macros which are widely available.

I looked at Peter's post and cross referenced the magnifications specs he suggested to what was available at BH.

I think I first need a quick primer on the magnification of lenses. If A wide angle is listed at .5x, does that mean it allows approximatley 50% more width? If it's .3x, then 70% more?

I would expect that a wide angle would would allow more width while keeping the horizontal and vertical proportions in a natural mode. I would also expect a fishey to do roughly the same but the horizontal and vertical proportions would be unnatural (hence special effect).

The WD-58 that I had first looked at because I see a lot of people talking about it, has a .7x magnification. I think Glenn said it wasn't quite wide enough for his liking.

I also hear the phrase that you get what you pay for in terms of lenses.

I found the following items with the .5x wide and .3x fish. Both are Raynox and both are inexpensive.

RAXL5000PRO
.5x Super Wide Angle / Snap On $100.00

RAMX3000PRO
.3x Semi Fisheye / Screw On $110.00

I also found another Raynox that I couldn't quite define that seemed to do wide angle and fisheye while in the same position (and that sounds pretty scary and unpredictable).


RAXL3000PRO
.3x Ultra Wide Angle Converter/ Semi Fisheye / Snap On $90.00

To make matters more fun, I found a two in one lens from Century for $270

CEDS55WA58
.55x Reversible Wide Angle $270
One way for wide, reverse it for Fisheye

Considering my financial limitations, does the Century or a combination of the Raynox sound like it would send me in the right direction until I can afford better lenses?

I came away a little confused by some of Peter's comments (but not in a bad way). I just need to broaden my vocabulary and experiences. He was talking about Macro and I'm thinking that means reducing all the zoom magnification on the camera to zero.

He also mentioned not using a uv protector inside and I always thought the uv was basically to protect the camera's lens was a good thing to have on all the time because it doesn't affect colors.

Fixed polarizers (sunglasses for the camera) seem fairly self explanatory. But I think this will lead me into a different thread all together because it approaches the exposure territory. Right now, I'm still thinking automatic exposure and pushing the ND buttons when the camera blinks at me and Zebras live in Africa. I think I'm prepared to try custom white balancing on the GL1 and VX2100 because unlike the plays I've done, I should have some consistent lighting to work with. The reception might be a different story, but as I said, that's probably a different thread and it may have been covered several times before.

Right now, I think I just want to stick with learning how to get appropriate WA and Fish lenses and learning how to use the equipment I have and am getting. After all, this is about learning how to walk before I run even if I want to walk at a brisk pace for this wedding.

Thanks,
Scott