Hello guys
First of all, thank you for the great community
mine is a simple homemade Agus35 design, did some changes on GG, an
achromat and PCX lens, two AA batteries ecc,ecc.
There's a lot of dirty on the lens
the clip is here:

http://www.artsmell.com/motion/Test_0034.mov

thanks
:)

Nice clean footage.

Please tell use more, what camcorder? specs of your lenses? plastic CD ground glass?

Hi Wayne

Camera: XM2 (european Pal version of the GL2)
-Frame mode, Shutter Speed 1/25p
-ND Filter

ADAPTER

GG: Acrylic blank CD, blasted (?) with a 320 grit sandpaper, so I washed it very well, then I put (forgive my english) on the CD a microwax paste, the cd became almost transparent, I think the micro crystals help light to difuse, so I got a good contrast on sharpen areas and a uniform background blur for my porpuses.

Yashica f/1.4, 55mm (very cheap) € 50,00

An old acromat ( two peaces cemented ) from an ancient slide projector and a PCX
CAMERA > ACHROMATIC > PCX > GG > SLR


Editing: Vegas 6, a little bit of color curves, gama, gain, sharpen, but not too much... the digital information is there, editing did not change it a lot (IMHO)

here's a full frame without any editing, just flipped 180°
http://www.artsmell.com/motion/image0.jpg

I really like the footage, nothing to complain about and the quality is excellent!

Do you have any pictures of the acromat and pcx? Did you get both of them from the slide projector?

Hi. I just looked at the frame but it looked great

what kind of shops do you get microwax paste from?

Thanks

Jamie

Hi Wayne

Camera: XM2 (european Pal version of the GL2)
-Frame mode, Shutter Speed 1/25p
-ND Filter




EXCELLENT TEST FOOTAGE! More please . . .

I have XM2 questions - XM2 user here:

I understand the FRAME mode, but what is 1/25p? It is the "p" that has confused me? So you've chosen 1/25 - down from 1/50 - why? I've never done exernals with 1/25 . . I'm gonna try now though! But why 1/25 and not 1/50? PLease explain?

You chose EXACTLY the still I would have chosen to show your video off. The one where the lady is planting in full Sun AND behind the yellow flowers - excellent choice!

Great work! Wax over a G/Acrylic! Brilliant idea. . .

Grazie

You should rightly be well pleased with your results. Welcome to the obsession. - (I hope those words translate in the happy way I intended them).

Thankyou all, guys

Carl, both lens are from the old slide projector but I think it doesnt changes much, I've been used the single PCX on this GG and the clarity and contrast was almost the same, except for the blue chroma aberration on the edges of the subjets on focus, my lens are very poor, bad bad quality, scratched, old. Basically is a achromat double cemented lens like this: http://www.promis-electro-optics.com/pics/peo_achromat_lenses.gif and a planoconvex:http://www.acphotonics.com/products/product_images/plano_convex.gif So I believe is the
GG very transparent with the micro crystals to difuse light to make the difference (on this case).

Jamie, its a top secret revolutionary alchemy substance: Nivea Cream :) its structure is microwax, when you paste on cd all its
smell goes away, just the wax stay there. but its important to use a 320 grit sandpaper on the CD, finer than this the blur becames less uniforme, (months of tests to achieve the "right" grit)
http://www.expresschemist.co.uk/pics/products/7439/2/niveacream.jpg

Graham, just set the shutter speed in frame mode 1/25 , not less , the moving image is the same, more than 1/50 may cause flickering (or maybe not, cause the cd is very transparent), less than 1/25 comes the strobe effect. I alternate this setting just to control the light exposition. On day light even with 1/50, 1/60, 1/100 is almost impossible shot good images without the ND filter turned on. So you can use on XM2 whatever you want over the 1/25. thanks, I will show something larger soon.

Bob, thankiu, I've been reading you for so long, and learned...free great informations here ...I undersntand english well, reading, but is so hard to write
LOL!

Well I'll be.

Back in the antiquity when people were looking at substances to put between two pieces of glass. Nivea was one of many tried and failed. Just putting it on one sheet of glass already scratched to cause an evenly controlled thickness of wax. - A very elegant, simple and effective solution.

I had contemplated trying a single clear disk and a built up coating of orchard fruit wax (microcrystalline wax in water emulsion - the water is driven off by hot air and polishing of the fruit but i never got around to it.

It would be interesting to see if the coarse grind/Nivea (or other microwax) combination delivers closer to HD resolution than the methods so far evolved here.

Nivea Cream, lol. Have to steal some from my wife and try...

Hi
One more test, still have flickering issues when Nd filter is on, maybe with one more battery, three AA could solve this problem...o maybe four
camera optical image stabilizer cannot work well on these machines, so I used a tripod but even the wind...each minimun touch seems to shake it... strange fenomenom :D
and I have to change these macro lenses imediatelly
http://www.artsmell.com/motion/Test_0035.mov

Hey there

I am a bit limited downloads wise so am unable to download the .mov files

Ettore, you are a very clever man to come up with the nivea treatment idea!!

I have given it a go and am really impressed. I brushed the creme on the sanded and washed cd, wiped off the excess (hope that was right?,) stuck it in the agus35 and bugger me if it didnt work a treat.

I have posted a link to a very small sample i have uploaded (about 2 1/2 mb). excuse the little bit of vignetting in the corner. my mistake as i didnt notice at time of shooting, and also the wmv file which as we know is fairly poor quality

http://www.filefactory.com/get/f.php?f=04a1cb95844d759af11d1caf

I am hoping that this is the final trick I needed in getting a great quality dof adapter for a small price .

thanks again Ettore
Jamie

Cool idea! Your challenge (as you've already noted) is to get the application/substrate dead even to remove your flickering at 1/50s. I love the idea of wax, but one of the big issue is that it is organic, and not stable in air over time. If you can seal it, you're gold.

Also, do you have footage of your GG with and without the Nivea? A good spinning 320 would probably work pretty well by itself. Just curious on what effect the creme has.

Have you tried the adapter on/off test to check on light loss with the 35mm lens attached?

I've been reading here about dof adapters for a couple of years, and these are possibly the best results I've seen. (Not that all the others are bad, just that these results look most like what I might want)

I toyed with making one early on (Nikon D screen) and was disappointed with the results. This makes me want to give it another go.

Thats some really good footage! so i am guessing the Nivea cream is for getting less light loss. is it the same as putting on vaseline then rubbing off the excess, because when i do that to a plastic cd, or even glass, it basically makes it very transparent, which is good for light loss, but not good for hotspot, and especially hotspot for wide angle lenses, it renders the vaseline trick useless. does this offer the same results with better diffusion? thanks

That footage was amazing! Did you just take the CD and spread the nivea over it? Did you wait until it dried naturally, or did you take a hair dryer to it and see what happened? More info please, that is looking great, especially the light and the kids hair, sharp and nice colours.

Jamie...I can already notice the great difference and brilliance of the colors, but I perceive the typical barrel distortion caused by the pcx lenses, in order to fix this problem you must use one real achromatic peace, moreover try a 320 sanded CD, thank you, you'll see the difference!

Dennis, yes you're right, its organic (stolen from my wife) and it could be vulnerable, but you can use another one such natural/mineral : Ceresin, Montan Wax, Petroleum Paraffin etc. or syntetic: Ethylenic polymers,Chlorinated naphthalenes. or maybe buy lots of Nivea when you have to travel around the world, lol! Nivea makes a good work, but every microcristalline substances will work too. No, I'm sorry, I dont have any old footage without wax
"Have you tried the adapter on/off test to check on light loss with the 35mm lens attached?" No tests, just use my eyes and sensation to "feel" the difference about one 35mm adapted footage and a naked cam footage. But I'll shot the same object, with/without the adapter to show you the real difference (colors, sharpen etc) between them. Thanks ;)

Jef, stay toying, I also try the Nikon D screen, very clear but the blur its a mixture, you can see the shapen areas images through the blur. Try this, is cheap and easy, luminous as the Nikon screen but with a very good out-of-focus.

Forrest, yes, like vaseline, Nivea is not the answer, its my own alternative, but if you have another microwax liquid substance use it, better if is not organic, like Dennis said. The hotspot was not a problem to me, with that two macro lenses (Achromatic doublet + PCX) The Pcx to avoid the hotspot, than the Achromatic to avoid the chroma aberration and barrel distortion.

David, I spread the Nivea over it, didint dry, close the Adapter and went out to shot the beautiful sicilian people and colors, after two months I still have the same results, on the disc the same opacity, I think the Nivea cream is enough for my intentions.

Thanks
;-)

The Nivea idea does seem to be the same as the vaseline trick. Does it give your glass a perminant wet look, improving brightness, colours and contrast?

I used this last year on the first few SG35's. 320 grit glass disk, with a vaseline treatment. This does give more hotspot as Forrest pointed out, but with a condenser system setup its not a problem. It reduces diffusion ever so slightly, but not enough as to effect the DOF of the final images. The SG35/SGpro does not use this method anymore.

Thanks for that feedback Ettore,

What is an achromatic lense (piece?), do you have a link to an example, or any ideas where i can get one? Does it go between gg and video camera lens? or elsewhere?

Jamie

An Achromat lens is made from 2 different lenses cemented together in order to reduce chromatic abberation. They are used as macro/close up lenses in the adapter world, and placed up close to the camcorders lens. They help the camcorder to focus on the GG.

Hi there,

I am currently using 1 pcx lens between the gg and the slr lens. I have another pcx lens. if i use my other one between the gg and the camcorder lens, will this reduce the barrel distortion?, or do i really need a achromatic lens. Its just, short of finding an old slide projector at a garage sale somewhere, I have no idea where i would get one!

Jamie

Hi Jamie,

A good place to find experimental achromats is Surplus Shed in the US. I used them a few times last year for my own testing. I found 2 lenses on there that maybe a good choice:

http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l3563.html

http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l1684.html

They have a good service, and shipped fast to the UK.

If not email me, i maybe able to help further.

Thanks Wayne

Thats great of you to put those links up there.

I have contacted the surplus shed re delivery to australia for the first one.


jamie

Jamie,

Be aware that the first one has a shorter focal length, so there is more chance of abberation and soft focus at the edges of the frame.

Please email me, I can provide you with an achromat.

The Nivea idea does seem to be the same as the vaseline trick. Does it give your glass a perminant wet look, improving brightness, colours and contrast?
Sunflower oil, lubricating oil or something like that will make on gg the same transparency (wet look) but part of the light will only cross through the GG surface, the "out-of-focus" will suffer a unpleasant faded effect or an possibly easy overxposure or such middle trasparency, bad glows types on blur areas etc,etc. The physical property of microcrystals diffuses the light better, changes it axis rays ordinarily. The beautiful Bosscreen is not only a fantastic (near) grainless static surface, microwax will give you more light with a better visible results, when you only scratch (sandpaper)a glass/acrylic/polycarbonate surface you create a micro "land" of irregular particles, the light is faster than the spinning gg (:-o), even when its moving the light will "break" without order, we must to level this land like a Catterpillar truck and organize beautiful pyramids/boxes/etc with the same size all around this field, than we turn on the light and we can dance in a homogenous illuminated outdoor discotheque... no more confusion glows or chaotic shadows corners. We must to drive it, take the light wherever we want. I've been talkin' about the grounglass property and its effectiveness, of course is important also a good optical assemblage, the right position between one lens from the others, focal lengths etc etc, to make an optimal adapter system. In the first place we must to prepare a confort bed to lay down the light (GG) and then watch with healthly well calibrated eyes at this bed (optical assemblage). Its seems to be obviously, an it is! LOL! forgiveme, I tried to be poetic... :-D

Please tell use more, what camcorder? specs of your lenses? plastic CD ground glass?
The polycarbonate, wich is made a CD/DVD, is more transparent to visible light than the silica (glass), has better light transmission characteristics, lightweight and highly break resistant mechanical properties, so in a cold developed moving device like mine and many others is 100% advised. The Movietube has a glass GG (IMHO), two sheets, with a microwax film trapped between them, in this case polycarbonate is not a good idea cause its a hot procedure.

Thank you all
have a nice weekend!
;)

is this a static or dynamic design?

Do we have any pictures of the GG to see? I would love to see the steps with the nivea cream. Do you have to apply it evenly? Does it need to be wiped off with a scraper to make it level?

Ive been experimenting using ettore's 'nivea cream' idea and i have been really impressed.

It is a spinning cd design.

I brushed the 'nivea creme' on the sanded disc evenly using a small paint brush.
I then gently wiped off the excess (not so hard that wiped off all the creme) until th disc had the same translucent look ocross the disc. I then stuck the disc in the adapter and away i went.

Im still playing with positioning of lenses etc but i really think it provides a great look (better than the finer sanded dry disc approach that ive been using).

Jamie

Jamie, have you tried it with a wide angle SLR lens? that will be a true test whether it defuses the light enough, if it doesnt, then you will see a definant hotspot, and possibly even see through through the cd alot. bob your head around while looking at the back side of the cd and if the image appers brighter on different parts at the different angles then the cd might not be diffusive enough.

Hi Forrest,

I do shoot in widescreen.

heres a short clip i did last week. excuse the vignetting, my error as i was focussing using an upside down TV and didnt notice it!!

http://www.filefactory.com/get/f.php?f=04a1cb95844d759af11d1caf

its only a small download (coupla mb) and is in wmv format but it gives you an idea of what im getting allthough still messing with lenses etc

jamie

. . . heres a short clip i did last week.
http://www.filefactory.com/get/f.php?f=04a1cb95844d759af11d1caf




Nope .. it isn't downloading . . ?

Grazie

seems to be a bit slow to get through today but comes up ok.

Try again if you want, page seems to take about 20sec to show up

Jamie

seems to be a bit slow to get through today but comes up ok.

Try again if you want, page seems to take about 20sec to show up

Jamie


I can see the file "name" but apart from actually needing to sign-up - nope! - I can not see where to actually get at your file to d/l?

G

when you get to the page with the file name. you will see a countdown while it 'generates free download links'. It then says 'click if you dont want a prenium download link'. click on that, and wait for the download to start

when you get to the page with the file name. you will see a countdown while it 'generates free download links'. It then says 'click if you dont want a prenium download link'. click on that, and wait for the download to start

Nope . . not happening .. G

Graham, the download works fine, can you delete some of your posts to keep Ettore's thread clean, so in the future, others wont be confused by the repeated posts.

Graham, the download works fine, can you delete some of your posts to keep Ettore's thread clean, so in the future, others wont be confused by the repeated posts.

Forrest, this by asking an innocent question? I'd really like to see Jamie's work. He has tried to help me - thanks Jamie. How is this innocent question making things confusing?

So, Forrest, how are you downloading?

Jamie is there another place I can see your work?

Best regards

G

no no, i dont mean its innappropriate, but this is Ettore's thread, and its about his nivea cream adapter, this is off topic conversation, and i wouldnt want other users to have to scan through trying to find where the topic left off. but now that i think of it, i dont even think its possible to delete posts. so now im stuck here to. oh well.

Hello guys

http://www.artsmell.com/motion/Test_0034.mov




Nice job!

What strikes me as strange about this footage is that sometimes the plane of focus doesn't seem to be perpendicular to the camera. This is very pronounced from 1:10 to 1:12, for example. The plane of focus is deep enough that everything from the subject's shoulder to the far visible side of his hat are in focus, yet directly downard from here, everything is out of focus on his chest/front.

I would tend to think this is due to the lens you are using and not the adapter but when the DOF is very shallow it doesn't take much misalignment.


Good choice of song, by the way - Frou Frou is good stuff! :)

I think using the brush is not the best way to go, if you look at the Spalding basketball, you can see the striations from the brush. But a good experiment.

Hi Forrest,

I do shoot in widescreen.

heres a short clip i did last week. excuse the vignetting, my error as i was focussing using an upside down TV and didnt notice it!!

http://www.filefactory.com/get/f.php?f=04a1cb95844d759af11d1caf

its only a small download (coupla mb) and is in wmv format but it gives you an idea of what im getting allthough still messing with lenses etc

jamie

Ettore: Do you have a photo of the slide-projector or achromat?

Hello guys
I'm writing a notebook text about all the things you said before my last post ( its takes a eternity :D)

Here's a larger new footage, dont look at the colors ( wrong setup colors 'in camera') 450 x 360 .Mov

http://www.artsmell.com/motion/test_0036.mov

I'm coming back

thanks

Thankiu guys for your attention!
so...

is this a static or dynamic design?
I'ts a Spinning plastic CD with Microwax cream on its surface

Do we have any pictures of the GG to see? I would love to see the steps with the nivea cream. Do you have to apply it evenly? Does it need to be wiped off with a scraper to make it level?
Hi, David... No I'm sorry for the pics, but its very very easy, 'to level' I meant wash it well to take off the particles... and than apply the cream, not too much, evenly, after with a soft paper or cotton try to polish it, like you do on your home floor, on the car etc.

Jamie I saw your videos, much better... but I still thinking you need an achromat... did you provide? is it coming?

Nice job!

What strikes me as strange about this footage is that sometimes the plane of focus doesn't seem to be perpendicular to the camera. This is very pronounced from 1:10 to 1:12, for example. The plane of focus is deep enough that everything from the subject's shoulder to the far visible side of his hat are in focus, yet directly downard from here, everything is out of focus on his chest/front.

I would tend to think this is due to the lens you are using and not the adapter but when the DOF is very shallow it doesn't take much misalignment.

Good choice of song, by the way - Frou Frou is good stuff! :)
Thank you, yes youre right, my dof box the ugliest thing in the world! :D ...the GG is tilted, and vibration its like a earthquake, the slr lens maybe helps to that strange dof.... Frankestein!
Oh, my God, the music I thought was "Imogen Heap"! but I like frou-frou too ;)

Ettore: Do you have a photo of the slide-projector or achromat? Carl, first of all, congratulation for you website, i like its design and contents.

its a simple doublet achromat, with two cemented pieces, can shot photos now because its glued inside metal rings, maybe it will be there forever :) ... its like this one here:
Achromat Photo (http://www.4science.net/shopping/item_image/552.jpg)

thanks

Thanks! The site is in swedish but I guess it's quite fun to look at anyway...

One more question, you wrote "ancient slide projector". Is it like one of those;
http://images.tradera.com/951/31601951_1.jpg
http://images.tradera.com/723/22401723_1.jpg
http://images.tradera.com/273/31848273_1.jpg

They all look quite ancient IMO... :) There are a lot of second hand stores around and I'm thinking of buying one. It would be faster, easier and cheaper than buying an achromat online. Your adapter seems to work great and gives exactly the kind of picture I want. I'm so glad you're willing to share your recipe.

Also, what are the specs of the PCX? Did you buy it online?

Carl, here is a picture with some pieces of My Slide Projector model (http://xs77.xs.to/pics/06166/Projector.jpg), as you can see its a jurassic type, yours is far better than this, if they do not cost a lot...
I think all these projectors have inside both lens, Achromat and Pcx, mine have two Pcx and two Achromat (one with two pieces cemented together and one Air-Spaced (http://www.laser2000.de/uploads/pics/XLI-achromaten01.jpg)) don't ask me why! :)

This site, in Germany, sells Optosigma products (Laser2000.de (http://www.laser2000.de/index.php?id=365412&L=1)) I dont know the prices, I'm afraid they're expensive...maybe that old machines (they usually have very good lenses) from Tradera.com are more economic then one single good Achromat lens

Oh, my God, the music I thought was "Imogen Heap"! but I like frou-frou too ;)


Imogen Heap is the singer of Frou Frou, so you were right! :)

Hi guys

I uploaded another little test footage on my servers,
but this time without any cream (NO MORE NIVEA IN MY LIFE) :D

Adaptest (http://www.adrianoribeiro.com/adaptest.htm/)

Sweet, what did you use for ground glass?

Regs,
T

link is broken.

The link posted today is not working and also the original footage that started this thread isn't available anymore, can you please reupload it as well?

thanks!