Hi Dave,

We have an entire forum dedicated to this very topic: see The Long Black Line (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=64).

Thanks Chris. Apologies to all for starting an obviously overdone thread.

dave

After you've read about tape, you might want to check this forum too since it is in the same neighborhood:
Direct-to-Disk (Tapeless) Recording (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=60)

I just purchased a XL1s and the previous owner said that he only used panasonic pro tapes in this camera. Does that mean I should continue on using this brand?

is there a big difference in pro quality vs. standard dv tapes, I certainly know the price is?

One last question is it advisable to blankout a tape after use or does it sacrifice the picture quality.

Thanks
Rob.

yes, it is advisable you stay with panasonic tapes. lubricants vary from brand to brand, and when you start mixing different lubricants, a goop will start forming on your heads.

striping a standard 60 minute dv tape is not a problem. i'm not sure about the 90 minute ones, as the actual tape is a bit thinner. maybe someone else can speak to that.

let me add it is not advisable to re-use tapes, if i catch your drift. the mini-dv media is delicate, to put it mildly. even the best, most well-cared for tapes will start experiencing dropouts on re-use, and nothing's worse than finding out your footage has dropouts in it when you're transferring the footage to your NLE. hope that helps.

thanks Henry, and yes that what i meant to format the tape and reuse.

tried doing a search, couldnt find anything. Just wondering which are the best for my XL1s I just purchased. thanks.

What brand came in the box? That usually is the brand used to set the internal settings and should geive best results. At one time Canon based their alignment instructions on using Panasonic MiniDV tape. Not sure what is is now.

If the XL1s was used, do you know what the previous ower use?

Most brand name tapes will work OK, and paying a premium for exotic tapes is not necessary for most people and purposes. Conventional wisdom is to pick a brand and type and stick with it.

I use mainly Panasonic AY-DVM60EJ with satisfactory results.

There is no great difference between brands...and not even between the cheap DV tapes and the expensive pro tapes from the same company. I use JVC Dv tapes and they work fine. The main thing, as Don said, is to pick a brand and stick to it, because some people experience problems when they use different brands of Dv tapes in the same unit.

I just purchased a used XL1S camcorder and I don't know which brand of tape to use...I want to use the best that is available...because I heard that you are suspose to use the same type that had been used in it previously, but I don't know because I can't get a hold of the owner...the camera shop says that Fuji mini DV tapes our popular in the area and he may have used those in it but they don't know for sure....does it really matter if I start using another decent brand??

Just be sure to do a good head cleaning before you change to a differnet brand of tape and you should be OK.

Well known brands of MiniDV tape are about equal in visible image performance, so pick a tape you like and you should be ok. If you favorite tape is hard to find locally, stock up so you never run out. I've been using mainly Panasonic tape.

Tape sold and labled for DVCAM use is usually subject to tighter quality control and will likely have fewer drop-outs, but many users do not notice this. In any case the price is substantially higher.

DVM-CL is what I should be using to clean the head?? Where can I get one of these??
Dean

For the Canon brand cleaning tape try a Canon camcorder dealer. But any decent MiniDV dry cleaning tape should work OK. I currently am using a Sony DVM12CL purchased from my tape supplier.

thanks for the info..I'm all new to this....and never used Canon digital video before.

From everything I've ever heard/read, and from personal experience, I'd go with Panasonic Pro tapes.

I tried running the Sony Premium tapes but frequently got streaks/banding in the video, and I've heard that the coating that Sony uses comes off on your heads and ends up mucking them up eventually.

Have yet (knocking on the nearest piece of angiosperm) to experience any problems with the Panasonic tapes.

As others have said, though, once you start with a particular brand of tape it's best to stick with it.

Yeah, it all depends who you talk to. My friend who is a pro videographer shooter told me to completely avoid Panasonic tapes because of an expensive "head job" and the repair shop said to avoid these tapes....now I'm hearing (after ordering 30 of 'em)...that Sony tapes are just as bad (from what a Canon rep told another threader on here)...so what the hell are you suspose to use??!! It only proves that one of these days when prices are affordable, everybody will have a firestore or something to burn the image directly to harddrive and nobody will have to worry about crappy tapes anymore.

The truth is that all tape makers put out occasional bad batches that may cause people problems, and some people may abuse tape (e.g., poor storage habits) and then blame the tape for their problems. Sony sells tape, so one could argue that they have a vested interest in telling people with head problems on Sony gear that Pana tape is bad, and the same could apply to Panasonic. At one time Canon was using/packaign Panasonic tape with their gear and specified panasonic tape in the alignment instructions.

Also, at one time Pana and Sony (the two main classes of tape) used differnt lub, that was in the 1990s. Sony and Pana got together and resolved the differences and that problem went away 5 or so years ago. But the lub question still exists as Internet "wisdom." (Some folks may recall a Sony tape plant "fire" that roughly conicided in time with the resolution of the issue. It has even been rumored that after the fire, Sony bought and spooled Pana tape under their name until they got their plant back on line.

Different brands of tape may have slightly diffent mechanical properties (e.g., stiffness) and that may cause different wear and wear deposit patterns over time. Changing to a differnt type of tape could cause deposit to break free and cause a head clog, thus a continuing reason to stick with one brand of tape and do a head cleaning if changing brand of tape.



.

I use only the Sony Excellence tapes.I figure if i'm using a $6000 camera,why not use top quality tapes.I used Panasonic in my older camera without any problems,but a friend of mine bought a bulk pack and had 3 or 4 faulty tapes in the batch.At the end of the day,theres always room for manufacturing faults no matter what brand.At least by using top quality tapes ,the odds of getting problems can be reduced.What's an extra $10 for a tape when you can lose half a days work and expensive ,time consuming set ups.

I've only used Fujis with my XL1s, no problems with exception to dropouts do to a faulty recorder unit (replaced under warranty). When I upgraded to the XL2, I switched to Panasonic MQ tapes (much more expensive by the way) based on recommendations here + other reputable dealers. This was the first tape brand used in the XL2 and I had drop out problems, blue screens, etc on a factory fresh camera. Switched back to Fuji after a cleaning and 30 tapes later, still no problems. Take it for what it's worth.

Kevin

what pro fuji tapes do you use? And are they dry lubricant types??

I use the DVC-60 Fujifilm DV. I believe they are the only miniDV tape Fuji makes. As far as if they are wet or dry, that's another story. I've read numerous conflicting posts here and all over the net. I think I read more posts that said they were dry than wet, but nothing concrete. What I do know is they work for me. Some swear by Panasonics, others swear by Sony (I believe Sony is wet), TDK, etc. Fujis work for me. Whatever brand, be sure to run a cleaner tape before switching brands or before using a brand new camera.


I get mine from tapeonline.com, great place.

http://www.tapeonline.com/store/product.asp?dept%5Fid=1240&pf%5Fid=VFC%2DDVC%2D60

I may pick up some of these because I don't hear many bad things about Fuji tapes...

I have been using TDK mini DV for the past 4-5 years here in South Africa without a single problem!

Ok, here we go again, I have a new XL1s on the way and want to know everyone's opinions on what tapes work best. I have an old xl1 and have had nothing but problems with the heads (been to Canon twice) and I have come to find out it may be becasue of the wet tapes I have been using from Sony. Now I know that there are hundreds if not thousands of educated people whom, use this forum and have experience with the ole XL1 and XL1s so let's hear your opinions on the Wet vs Dry tape debate.

let's hear your opinions on the Wet vs Dry tape debate.

All I know is that I stick to one brand IOW I don't switch from wet to dry. I have a consumer handycam that I've always used Panasonic tapes in and I regularly use an XL1 and an XL2 which only get Sony tapes.

It's frustrating to have to stock 2 tape brands but that's how it goes, but none of those three has had more or fewer head clog problems than the other two.

A couple years ago I tried an experiment to see if a tape brand change would help my finicky XL1s. I kept the one XL1s on Sony tapes and switched the other to Fuji. (Yeah, it was cleaned first.) After a year I concluded it didn't make one bit of difference. Now I've switched back and use Sony tapes on both and am doing just fine. I don't think it matters as long as you -- say it all together now -- stick to one brand. :)

FWIW, I ran TDK in my XL1 and then both XL2s. I had one dirty head message on the XL2 that cost me one shot, but a head cleaning took care of it.

-gb-

I've used almost exclusively Panasonic DVM60EJ tape in my XL1 and Gl1.

Any barand can turn out a bad tape (perhaps just containing some debris from manufacturing) every now and then. The higher end master series tapes, usually 2x or higher the price of the consumer tapes, are better in terms of quality control, and perhaps ability to deal with marginal signals. But you pay extras for that quality.

Try a tape, and stick with it if you are happy with the results. Conventional wisdom says clean heads if you change brands or type within a brand.

Check out his recent post, the one by me, and I hope it helps you.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=90952

Mike

Thanks for the responses guys... I just do not want a repeat of the problems I had with my old XL1. I am going to stick with the dry tapes because as I see it the wet tape (Sony) seems by being "Wet" it will attract and hold more dirt. But by all means lets continue the "Great Tape Debate"...