I had a bunch of used tapes my friend gave me. thought I'd use it for practice. figured since its a digital signal, it should overwrite it clean, and there should be no problem. There seems to be dropoffs every now and then, and i can't capture right. can anybody fill me in on details about this?
Takeshi

Hi,

I've owned two XL1S's so far. The first one I shoot and edited on three full Sony 60 tapes withou a hitch. I purchased a second XL1S the other day and a five pack of Panasonic 90 LP. The first tape I used on my new camera kept stopping on rewind and displaying the message "remove tape". I opened the door to find the tape not sinching up. So I manualy sinched up the tape and tried again. This time it got caught on something inside and I had to break the tape to remove the cartridge. I wrote it off as a fluke untill I had the same problem again a second and finaly a third time before giving up. I went back to one of my Sony tapes and havn't had a problem since. I have to admit I didn't exspect to see so many people posting GOOD luck with their panasonic tapes and their is another post about someone else complaining about it being the XL1S's fault posting the heading, "back to canon for the second time".

I had to pay $600SD to get my XL1s head changed after switching to a Panasonic from Sony. I had barely shot around 10 hours till then.
I too strongly believe to stick to one brand as it was a hell of a experience to get my camera repaired.

I only use FUJI (for about 4 years now). And I've never yet had any problems with FUJI. In fact, I haven't had to clean my heads since I started using FUJI.

I use SONY Premium (non chip), cos I just got in the habbit from using them with Hi-8 format for years, an being in a Uni sponsored by Sony. Plus they have had special offers for Sony, so I have stuck with them the whole time. Never had any problems!

But is there much difference with the Panasonic ones? Just seems Panasonic and Fuji are the top answers. You guys know something I dont? or is Panasonic just cheaper in the USA?

Hey MODs can I not have a cooler title than "NEW BOOT" ????. Just soemthing a bit more classy!!!... :)

Your a new boot until you have 25 posts if I remember correctly. The title goes with our Texan, western theme, hence wranglers etc.

Jeff

Well Yee Haw Cowboys! I can see the Western theme now.... just like being back in Idaho when I lived there for a couple of years!

So how many posts to become a Sheriff??? hahaha

Panasonic ala like the above people mentioned.

I recommend not ever taping LP. A friend of mine showed me the tape from his XL1S and the audio/video screwed up/staired all over what a client paid $$$$ for. It was a one shot deal and a repetative client. LP doesn't pay...

My two copper heads...

Cheers!

Derrick

I never touch LP even with a 10ft barge pole!. I must be mad or like torture with money costs, but i never even use the same tape twice. Just have a "test" tape that I use if I need to have a tape just to mess around with, where i dont care about the quality. But even then I never use LP with that. I had a bad experience a long time ago and never ever used LP since. The quality was bad, and maybe running slower makes the tape more prone to heat or more friction or something (im not a techno physicist know it all) so just never use LP.

If you get paid for your work, there no probs with tape money. But if you dont and its a hobby, well tapes are about $5 (if my USD estimates correct) here so just do without a six-pack for a day Or what I do and buy slight out-of-date food or On-Specials then you have tape money. ;)

What ever you decide, deffinately stick with one brand.

You might also want to check out my post from earlier.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6072

-Nori

The cheapie Panasonics are $3 at protape.

What is the brand of miniDV tape that is recommended to be used with the Canon XL1?

If you ask Canon, they will tell you that Canon miniDV tape is recommended.

I don't think it matters on what brand. Just pick a good one. My vote goes to Fuji.

Basic advice is to stick to one brand. I use Panasonic. Try using the search link and you will find a ton of posts on this subject with some pretty good discussions too.

I haven't any problems with any brands except JVC. What ever brand you decide to go with, try to stay with only that brand.

Read more about my experience with JVC here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6072

-Nori

I've used Sony for years and never had any problems. Seem pretty tolerant to different climates I've ran them in.

Most here seem to go for Panansonic, but never tried them myself, as I've used Sony - recommendations are you dont change, so guess I'll just stick to Sony.

I too have had nothing but problems with JVC, on my personal cams---in fact, with all the JVC tape I used, and big time problems; and I see that Nori is also from British Columbia. Perhaps JVC dumps ship loads of defective tape regularly at the Vancouver port.

http://www.dvfreak.com/tape.htm

Sony

Hollands largest broadcaster NOB" told "me to use sony dvcam pdvm-40n, expensive, but cheaper then a reshoot, this because of no dropouts, no compatibility problems, prof case etc. I never had a problem with these.

For me Sony has worked the best, I started working with Panasonic but the quality of the tape was not good enough for the tropics, Sony made something like tropic proof tapes, I have tapes as old as four years and you wont see a stain of mold on them... panasonic on the other hand...

I can guarantee you that mold-resistance is an attribute that we've never considered here before.

Does it help to store tapes and other sensitive materials in waterproof cases with a bag of silica gel dessicant?

I have nearly always used Sony tapes and find that they work great. Also I too have found them good at mold resistance in Mexico. I have used some Maxel ones but some have shown parts of distortion - the jagged edge type bands that go across. You all know what I mean. Even though I only record on a tape just once and only use it for playback during editing. So thats just problems occurred from playback or during recording. So I just stick with Sony now.

I know some people use the same tape twice or a few times for recording - recording over previous footage. But never having done that I wouldn't know what the tapes record like or if there are signs of 'wear' or slight quality deteriation.

Hi,

I am a relatively new owner of a Canon XL1s.

So far I have only used JVC professional mini DV tapes.

I felt it was important to stick with the same brand of tape.

The store that I usually purchase the tapes has run out of the JVCs.

They tell me the are only two manufacturers of mini DV tapes these being Panasonic and Soney.

Apparently Panasonic makes the JVC tapes as well as other brands. Therefore they are saying there is no difference between the JVC tapes and the Panasonic tapes. They indicated that I might run into a problem with Soney tapes if I did not run a cleaning tape first.

Does anyone have any comment on this tape issue.

My gut feel was that I should stick with the brand I started with but this could be due to my lack of understanding

Thanks for any help you could give me

Regards

Hello Peter,
It is really refreshing to hear of a store passing along good information. We so often hear of stores passing along voodoo and other rubbish to their customers. Sounds like you have a good store!

I think there are actually at least a couple of other tape manufacturers (TDK and Maxell coming to mind), but Panasonic and Sony are, indeed, the primaries. I think Panasonic does, indeed, manufacture JVC-branded tapes.

And, yes, our motto here is "Pick 'n Stick". Woe be ye who doth switch brands without first performing the sacred cleaner tape rutual. For he doth invoke the wrath of the dreaded Head Clogger Demon.

Sony and Panasonic make excellent quality tape and either will be yummy as a steady diet for your new XL1s.

Do a Search here and you'll find hundreds of posts concerning tape, as it's one of our most frequent topics.

Bon Appetite!

They tell me the are only two manufacturers of mini DV tapes these being Panasonic and Sony.

This simply is not true. Fuji makes their own tape, as well as tape for Panasonic some of the time. Also, JVC and Pana tape are not the same quality, though Pana has different quality tape.

Here's some reading:

http://www.dvfreak.com/tape.htm

Fuji and Pana worked together to develop DVCPro tape. They may or may not share production lines for DV/MiniDV tape.

Pana's parent company (Matsushita) owns a ~50% share of JVC. IT would not be a surprise to find they use common production facilities for tape.

But who makes what for whom to lable for retail sale qualifies as trade secrets and is not obvious. And even if they make the tape for another company, it may be made to a slightly different specification.

Conventional wisdom in the late 1990s was that there were two basic type of MiniDV tape formulation until Pana introduced their dry lube tape; i.e., Sony and everyone else.

It was as rumored that when Sony had a tape factory fire in the 1990s and DV tape was scarce, Pana help Sony by running batches of tape for Sony. It was about this time that the initial MiniDV tape lub incompatability problem was solved.

I believe that Pana markets two types of tape, common MiniDV (with a "wet" lub) and a higher grade dry lube tape.

The conservative approach is to stick with a brand/type you like, and clean heads (which also cleans the tape guides and someother components) before changing brands/type.

Thanks Guys,

This has been very helpful.

I think I will stick with the tapes I started with.

Once again thanks to all of you for the info.

JVC HORROR STORY:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6072

Does anyone have a favorite brand tape that works best in a XL1s? I read a message ages ago that stated the name of one brand of tape that had given the user consistent problems.

What is the most reliable tape to use in an XL1s and is there a brand that you would never use in any cam?

I have an event coming up that I want to be sure to minimize the weak links (I only wish I had that assurance for my part of the process!!).

Any help is appreciated!

Mike Koenig

Sony, Panasonic, or Fuji seem to be the most popular. If it's critical get the highest grade you can afford. I use Sony Master Grade, others use Panasonic MQ/PQ. The biggest thing to tape reliability is choose a brand and stay with it as switching tapes can cause head problems due to different tape lubricants.

Adrian,

Thank you for the information about tapes. I wouldn't have ocnsidered the problem of using different tapes (with different lubricants) and the problems that would cause.

Thanks again!


Mike

Sticking to one brand of tape is one of the golden rules of DV cameras. If you change tapes you can get problems like drop-outs, banding, poor picture quality just to mention a few.

This is probably the most often posted question on DV Info. A key word search, using the search button in the upper right corner of this window, will reveal many threads on this topic. Happy reading. One thing to keep in mind is that statistically the sampling of opinions in the various posts is too small to be relevant. But almost all users have good experience following Adrian's advice to not switch brands.

For what it's worth, when we had a serious digital break-up problem with our xl1, we called the problem in. The FIRST question the tech asked:

"Are you using Sony tapes?"

As it happened, no... fuji, but the problem was a tape head alignment and was repaired by Canon. So, be advised that Canon Support thinks there MIGHT be a problem with SONY tapes.

Thanks to all who have responded. It seems that sticking with one brand is an absolute requirement. I will avoid Sony until I hear otherwise.

The other day I got my 10-month old XL1s to a Canon service center. In total I probably used my camera about 30 hours, maybe 35. I dropped it off at Canon for general check before starting a big production.
Coming back there a week later they charged me US$600 for replacing the video heads as well as the tape holding mechanism.
They told me that the damage was caused by using Sony tapes. They’re too soft and even the Sony Excellence tapes (the ones I was using) smear the video heads.
They recommended Panasonic tapes and told me that Canon mechanisms are all tested with Panasonic tapes.
Why don't they use their own brand???
A week later another Canon contact advised me not to use Panasonic. He recommended TDK.

Looks to me that nobody really knows what’s the best tape to use in order not to damage your camera. US$600 after 10 months of use?!?! Doesn’t seem right, does it?

Maybe somebody knows more about it or somebody got reliable test results?
Hope to hear from you, great site, wonderful reference, thanks!

I SWEAR I will not make a joke about the smearing of lubricants on heads. :::Sits on hands, bite down on wooden spoon handle:::


That aside.


I use Panasonic AND Sony. I guess I need to stick to one, now.

I just love fuji.......

no probs, good image quality, and colours just fine too.

Canon does not make tape. At one time they were rebranding Panasonic tape with a Canon wrapper, at another time they were packing a Panasonic labeled tape. Not sure what the story is today.

My wife's cousin is a professional photographer and videography, mainly shooting weddings. He also owns a photo shop/studio. He swears by Fuji miniDV for his XL1. So do I.

http://www.dvfreak.com/tape.htm

Hi Cristoph.

Something is wrong. After 30/35 hours of camera use they change video heads and the tape holding mechanism? Where you experiencing any problems with the camera? If not, I think you were ripped off.


About tapes, I use Panasonic MQ and PQ and have been a happy customer. And I reuse my tapes, wich is considered a bit of a "sin" in the video community.

Best regards,
Arnaldo

I've been taping at LP on Sony tapes for over 3 years on the XL1. - Never had any problem with the speed. I shoot events and really need the 90 minutes. Once in a while something comes up where I need more time and I've used the panasonic 80's. Apparently a big mistake.

There's an event that runs just under 2 hours every spring, - every May I go to the Canon service center shortly after the tape switch. I never connected the two until reading the messages in this forum. Light bulb time. (By-the-way, they charge me a flat $254.40)

Now, I bring my full size deck to the shoot, - fortunately it's tripod time. Just firewire to the 180 min. deck (sometimes I put in a DVCam tape and get an extra hour), not Firestore, but it works. Still have to capture to Premiere.

Oh yeah, I use my mini DVs 5 times for actual events then use them for set ups and misc. At around 15 recordings I dump them.
No problems so far (Well, except for those times after the tape switch.)

Hey, maybe I won't have to hit the service center this year! Nah, I'll probably do the annual $254. just for peace of mind.

Brad Tyrrell

Ok.....

Another can of worms....

I've searched for this and read peoples' posts....but can't find a definitive answer to the question:
What real difference does using LP over SP have when using Mini DV?

I've used both SP and LP...and I really can't see any/much difference whatsoever...!

Aren't we recording digitally anyway, so therefore the information is still the same...?!

Please help....
I really DON'T understand why I should ALWAYS use SP for recording...!!!!

Thanks

This is not an expert response but I think what you say is more or less right. If everything is working perfectly, there shouldn't be any difference between SP and LP mode.

BUT, given the fact mini DV is so prone to drop outs, artie-facts(sic) and other nasties, why take the risk of making matters even worse by slowing the tape down to get a few extra minutes shooting time on a cassette?

Here's hoping someone who really knows what they're talking about will join this thread.

Nick,
As you suggest, DV is a digital, not an analog, medium. The actual recording to the tape is the same series of 1's and 0's in either mode.

However, in LP mode the tape is moving past the heads much more slowly. This means that the footage is recorded on significantly less area of the tape (on a per time unit basis). Hence, there's less room for error recovery.

LP is also not nearly as device compatible as SP. It's common to hear of people unable to play back an LP tape in cameras or decks different from the original recorder, even when the second device is the same brand and model of the recorder.

Bottom lines: (a) tape is relatively inexpensive, (b) your safest bet is to use SP for anything you consider important.

I know there has been much said about tapes on many threads on many forums, but I'm still faced with a decision that I can't answer myself.

Some of the tapes that have been quoted on threads have referred to tapes that are branded in different Countries to the one I am in...(UK)

My choice is this.

I have a new XL1s, and would like to use SP and LP for various shoots and have seen two brands of tape that I would like to use, and stick with for the life of the camera record heads.

The choice is:

Sony DV Premium 60 mins (red labelled box)
or
Panasonic DVC Linear plus (suitable for LP recording)

The sony tape is primarily a SP tape, and the Panasonic says due to the Linear Plus technology (whatever that is) it is suited well for LP recording.

Any ideas on which one is probably the better one to go for...?!

Thanks

Personally, I use the Panasonic Master series (both 63 and 83 minute tapes). It's a step UP from the Linear Plus series.

I also avoid LP mode in the camera. I DO use it sometimes on my deck. There's fewer compatibility issues when you stick with SP mode.

I use Sonys without any problems. The point is to choose a tape brand and stick with it. If you search the posts on this site theres lots about peoples preference for tapes. Some use Panasonic, others Sony, JVC, Maxell, etc....but whatever tape people use, they all agree not to swap to another brand after using one brand for a long time or you can effect the tape heads.

Just search for the topic there's lots of previous posts on this issue. The tapes in the UK are the same, just packaging slightly different, probably for just most to include more languages explanations for euro market, Panasonic DVM60 have EK on end denote european type, if im correct. Most top tape brands in USA I have seen in UK as well. It just depends where you buy them from as to what make they sell. The Panasonics normally are slighlty cheaper in the UK, than Sony's but only difference in couple of pence.

The XL1 that I have inherited at my job has always had Sony DVC60 tape used with it. Is it generally not good to switch tape brands once the unit has been used repeatedly with one formulation or brand? What tapes do most of you use and why?

Dave