I would like to think that people would do research BEFORE spending a couple thousand dollars or more on a camera, yet an amazing number of people who make substantial purchases (by my feeble financial standards) don't know the capabilities or limitations of their equipment until AFTER they buy. Early adopters should expect to run this risk, but others? I can't really blame Sony or any other manufacturer for any camera that has been out for a while which has limitations I could be aware of before making the purchase.


Normally I would agree. But this is a much more subtle issue. I didn't catch it. I only noticed the colors looked a bit "pastel." But, I'm used to Sony cameras always being too blue for my taste. (Which is why I love my JVC HDV.)

The fact that it's subtle means it has taken a long time to be reported. So folks would not have seen negative reports if they had looked.

But, subtle doesn't mean it's not very real. For a decade I wouldn't buy JVC camcorders because they had orangish reds -- not true reds. To me very obvious. But, I bought Sony camcorders even though very bright reds went pink.

What's different now is that HD should remove all these problems. They are not present with any other HD camcorder. So, Sony is responsible for not getting this problem fixed before releasing the HC1/A1. And, it can be a deal breaker for some.

By the way -- in the late 50's, no saturated reds were allowed on set. When red was required, brownish-red was used. That prevented the "cross color" arifacts. This has been an NTSC -- and likely PAL -- issue from day 1.

Just curious, are the people having problems with the reds noticing this problem in SD mode, HDV mode or both?

AFTER MORE RESEARCH ON NTSC--I'VE UPDATED MY UNDERSTANDING:

In the NTSC system, the distinction between color tones is called hue and is carried by the phase of a chrominance component. (Hue is distinct from color saturation and color intensity.)

Saturation is the degree to which a color is different than white. For example, white, light pink, pink, or red.) The amplitude of a chrominance component carries saturation.
Whether a red is a “dark red” or a “bright red” is determined by the amplitude of the luminance signal—not a chrominance component.

The “I” (orange-cyan) and “Q” (green-magenta) components—plus the luma element—are mixed to generate an NTSC signal. In the process, it is possible for the amplitude of a chroma component (representing color saturation) to add with that of the luma component (representing color brightness) and create an illegal signal. Therefore, chroma amplitude (saturation) must be limited by the camera’s DSP. If the chroma amplitude is over-limited, a color will be desaturated. For example, bright "red" is will become "pink."

Analog SD “component-color” (BetaSP) plus digital SD (DV) and HD formats do not mix chroma and luma together and thus should not suffer from chroma saturation problems. Nevertheless, some single-chip, digital camcorders do have a problem with saturated colors.

My last posting on this red issue:

As luck would have it, there was a bright red car parked right outside of my apartment. I shot footage of the car on auto, and with about 10 different tweaks with the A1. 9 of those tweaks were abominable. 1 had a "acceptable" (not great) reds.

I shot the same footage with my PDX10 on full auto, and outdoor white balance modes. Both had perfect reds.

I'm too lazy to log, capture and post that comparison online, but needless to say, I'm p**sed. I have funding for a DOC that I'm shooting mid may to mid june that I need to have HD for, and this seemed like the only camera that fit the bill. I'm going to have to bite the bullet and keep it for the duration of the movie and then resell. This is not an acceptable problem to keep having.

Try white balancing to a pale blue or pale green card.

Steve you are absolutely RIGHT!

I have recently bought the HC1, and I checked the red representation right away.I did not find anything wrong with red untill I read your post. Then I did a test to shoot the BRIGHT red, I just took some shots on a shining red led of my optical mouse, and find the brightest part of the red LED looks pinkish! So HC1 does have this problem although I have not had this situation in my regular usage.

Well basically I could accept this because I will seldom have the chance to shoot a red light. I am just curious that why you think HD should not have this problem? From what you described, it should be exsiting for all one chip machines, isn't it?

I purchased my HC-1 just before Christmas. Using it during the Holidays, the colored lights and presents - including Red - looked fine. I had studied all the reports on this forum from the early adopters before I purchased it. Nobody mentioned the red color problem until this last month. I've used the HC-1 in wintery Minnesota and on a Cruise in the Carribean, not much red, and everything looked great. Even the sunsets look good, if your really study them they may be very, very slightly pink, but not noticeably so. However,the other day I shot a red airplane, outside in late morning filtered sunlight. The red is NOTICEABLY PINK. I did NOT have a UV filter on that day, but always did in the past. Some one sugested that maybe the UV filter helps? Has anyone experimented more with this?

I am just curious that why you think HD should not have this problem? From what you described, it should be exsiting for all one chip machines, isn't it?

NTSC mixes chroma and luma while HD does not -- unless you output NTSC. So I'm assuming this issue should not arise. But:

1) There must be a limit to the saturation value so it could still occur -- so you ask a good question.

2) The is another thing in common between the HC1/A1 and most NTSC camcorders -- they use Bayer filters. Which would mean it makes no difference whether a CCD or CMOS or NTSC or HD is used. Interestingly, the JVC HDV doesn't have this problem and doesn't use a Bayer filter. But, the HC3 -- one assumes -- does, and it doesn't have the problem. So I think #2 is not likely.

Now here's the big puzzle. Why does bright red not simply go up to a certain level of red and stay there? How does "red" go from pink to rose to red and then jump back to pink. It's like the signal goes up to the max red and starts over at pink!

I've got to think about this.

DAVE: "1 had a "acceptable" (not great) reds." What was the tweek?

There has been considerable discussion on the web with regard to various CMOS based digital cameras having issues with reds. At one point I stumbled onto some "astrophotography" sites where people complained about poor reds from digital cameras, especially those that are CMOS based. The conclusion is that the greater the intensity of the red, the more it overwhelms the ability of the sensors to discriminate accurate color. I guess I figured that it was just the way CMOS sensors currently behave and that I just have to accept it if I wanted the HDR-HC1.

If a subject is predominantly red, some digital cameras using auto white balance will view the subject as having a "warm" color cast and then compensate and end up creating a blue color cast. Some digital cameras are worse than others. For these, a manual white balance solves (most of) the issues.

It is obvious that the problem is real and I won’t debate that. However, it is also obvious that there is nothing we can do to change the camera (outside of a currently non-existent firmware upgrade that may or may not do anything); it is what it is.

I remain skeptical of anecdotal evidence. Not everyone conducts tests in the same manner or accurately (different intensities of red from different sources, different camera settings, filters or no filters, different light sources, different altitudes affecting UV, different materials used for manual white balance such as printer paper, etc).

That said, I do think there is a high amount of blue relative to the red (a Sony trademark?), but it still seems that a manual WB should solve (most of) this.

What we really need (and by we, I mean someone else) :-) is to move on to creating practical methods for preventing and mitigating the “reds” issue.



Test to determine under which conditions the problem occurs (so we can avoid them or better prepare):

- Is the effect the same when shooting red lights as opposed to other red objects?

- Does it occur more often under one type of light than another?

- Does exposure have any effect?


Identify “fixes”

- Perhaps more or less light

- Different light source?

- UV filters?

- Enhancing filters?

- Manual white balance? Using a real neutral balance card as opposed to random objects?


Identify post processes to minimize the effect.

- Color correction, color matching


... or maybe we just have to live with it?

About red light... isn't light a serie of on/off flickering in the speed of the Hertzrate you have in your country? In US that would be 60 per second and Europe it's 50 per second. I am just curious and it might have something to do with the problem.

I tried to screw my UV-filter on and off. If the colour was non-reflective red it seemed to keep the red slightly better with UV-filter. But it was hardly noticable. When I looked at some red with reflective surface it lost some of the red colour.

Can anyone who has the problem with red take some pictures of objects that are common e g a Coke-bottle should be fairly similar or red paper binder. It would be nice to see a variation of red objects and different surfaces.

The conclusion is that the greater the intensity of the red, the more it overwhelms the ability of the sensors to discriminate accurate color. I guess I figured that it was just the way CMOS sensors currently behave and that I just have to accept it if I wanted the HDR-HC1.

That said, I do think there is a high amount of blue relative to the red (a Sony trademark?), but it still seems that a manual WB should solve (most of) this.

What we really need (and by we, I mean someone else) :-) is to move on to creating practical methods for preventing and mitigating the “reds” issue.



The problem may be compounded by Sony's blue bias. And, the only reason I'm "in to" the issue of WHY is because it shouldn't be happening with HD -- except if you use Composite Out. Moreover, I've never seen it on an HD camcorder, except the HC1/A1. And, the word "overwhelms" is a real description of WHY.

So, yes it would be nice to have a few tips. Clearly, avoiding AWB is a good idea since it is never that accurate. Full Manual seems right. Using tinted "White" Balance card would seem another option. Try one of the "warming" cards.

Moreover, I've never seen it on an HD camcorder, except the HC1/A1.

None of the others are CMOS based...

None of the others are CMOS based...
Folks claim its not a problem with the HC3 which is CMOS.

A different sensor (already used in the DCR-DVD505)...

"...this sensor also uses a different CFA (Color Filter Array) layout which has six green photosites for each red and blue, hence increasing effective luminance sensitivity but decreasing chroma (color) sensitivity and resolution."

http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1138169251.html

http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1138169251.html[/url]

Different yes -- but nothing in the description in any way explains why the color should be different.

But, it does raise several interesting questions:

1) The A1/HC1 CMOS already offers more HD video resolution than ANY HD camcorder -- so of what value is 1.4X more for HD video. (Companies keep thinking folks are going to take stills with their video camera, but every review of these attempts reports the efforts to be a failure. Flash is usually needed for a good still camera, for example. The A1 has no flash.)

2) Do we really want less chroma rez for HD video?

3) Will Sony keep the current CMOS in the A1 or switch to the new one? If the new chip really is better, as many claim, and they don't upgrade the A1, how will Sony deal with their "pro" camcorder recording lower quality video?

4) The DSP in the HC1 and A1 is very sophisticated. The A1 brochure makes a big deal of how it handles high-contrast scenes! No mention of what DSP is in the HC3.

5) At NAB could there be a new "A1" with the new CMOS and the current DSP?

Hi,

I promised a while ago to set up some images takem with the HC1. FINALLY - here is where you can find them:

http://www.dextrel.net/photogallery/real.htm

ALL shots at normal factory defaults. The focussing was manual.

Reading comments here and elsewhere it seems that there IS noticeable variation from unit to unit in the color rendering in the HC1 (an also other CMOS models from Sony??). It seems also that this red color problem is fixed at least to a certain extent in the HC3. So Sony HAS done something about this malfuction - it has NOT gone unnoticed by their engineers.

Remember, these pics that I display are taken in the STILL image mode and you can still (pun intended) see the same problem in the color rendering as in the video modes. Still images are processed without any NTSC, PAL or MPG2 processing limitations - just postprocessed, matrixed and compacted in JPEG format.

The CMOS sensor produces three independent outputs in the RBG format. Digitally - since the AD converters are on-chip. Eiter the CMOS sensor in internally very nonlinear - or - the color post processing is inferior or not able to compensate (at least with this firmware version) for some shortcomings in the CMOS sensor.

Please also remember that there are many CMOS based professional quality cameras that produce fantastic color reality. So I would not blame this on the CMOS technology itself. It just happens to be the new kid in the block that takes the blame. Or then the sensor is really a flop and Sony is able to manage the output somehow with good DSP processing.

It is vell known that Sony cams produce cooler (more bluish) images than for example Canon. However, the color rendering on my other consumer Sony cam is like from another planet compared to the HC1. I probably should put up some additional pics...

I am fully aware that since TV broadcasting uses FM modulation there is a limit how great the modulation is allowed to be. Therefore both NTSC and PAL standards define distinct IRE (signal level) restrictions. There is a practical limit of the crominance signal since it is added as a carrier to the luminance signal. At high brighness (close to 100%) there is less room for a high amplitude color carrier. This is well understood. Eveyone agrees that HD has nothing to do with NTSC or PAL, as little as JPEG has to do with NTSC or PAL. And - as my experiments with STILL images shows, this problem with HC1 has nothing to do how video is encoded in NTSC or PAL - the problem is well before this signal processing !!!

Best regards,

Christian

I just finished going through a bunch of footage looking for reds. As I look at them, they aren't perfect, but they are nowhere near as bad as what you posted. They are all full auto. I have some frame captures but no way to post them. If anyone can post them I'll send them to you. They're downsized so they are not big files.

The CMOS sensor produces three independent outputs in the RBG format. Digitally since the AD converters are on-chip. Eiter the CMOS sensor in internally very nonlinear - or - the color post processing is inferrior or not able to compensate (at least with this firmware version) for some shortcomings in the CMOS sensor.

Your pix dramatically show why my impression of the CMOS Sony's were that they produced pastel color -- the red has no intensity! It is saturated (rightmost chips) correctly, but the brightness is wrong.

And you are correct about how CMOS works. At NAB, I'll take printout's of your site to some Sony folks I know in the pro division. Fundamentally, now that you have documented the problem the question is can it be fixed by Sony service.

I tried the similar thing as Christian did, and I got to agree HC1 does have a serious drawback for red color reproduction under certain situations. Bright red is definitely nonacceptable with HC1. Thanks the god that in reality we seldom has this situation.

SONY definitely realized this issue and maybe that is why HC3 uses differecnt CMOS. This also means most probably the cmos of HC1 is defective in the red reproduction... It is rather disappointing, and I hope SONY will have some software/firmware solution later, though chance are slim.

Now I feel something strange, it seems that all the complaints are from HC1 users, how about A1 users? Do they have the same problem? Will black stretch solve this problem to some extends? I wish A1 users can provide some comments.

I wish A1 users can provide some comments.

I assume too the A1 has the same problem. And, it looks like there is no replacement. So how ARE A1 shooters handling it?

I assume too the A1 has the same problem. And, it looks like there is no replacement. So how ARE A1 shooters handling it?

Well I had to go through many hours of footage to find a frame or two with a bright enough red to cause a problem and then it's not all that bad. Nothing like as bad as those charts a few posts back. I will just keep shooting and ignore the problem for the most part. Yeah I will look for it every time I see red and check out the reds on any new camera I buy, but I really don't see it being enough of an issue to really bother me. The image quality of this camera still amazes me every time I see it.

I have been keeping an eye on this post while going through hours of footage taken on 3 different cams (a HC1 which I traded in for a A1 and a loaner A1 when my zoom packed up) and I can't see anything that serious with the reds - maybe a bit cool sometimes on auto white balance but manual or daylight setting WB no problem.
In fact i get a big smile on my face everytime I project this stuff, the overall colour knocks my socks off!
IMO the A1 even can be better for colour including Red in good light than my Z1, so even if a batch of chips where down on the red maybe a lot may be down to our own eyes?

IMO the A1 even can be better for colour including Red in good light than my Z1, so even if a batch of chips where down on the red maybe a lot may be down to our own eyes?

If you look at the posted charts, you can hardly call the reds accurate. I don't think folks would be having these problems if the A1/HC1 reds were more accurate than a Z1.

However, excluding the red problem, it is entirely possible that the A1/HC1 have better looking greens because the Z1 tends to bluish greens. So I'm not doubting your observation.

Steve, i agree with you with the charts and if my cam was showing reds down like that i would be all over Sony but i'm just not seeing it on my footage at the moment either by good luck or maybe years of the old amber beer have given my eyes built in red warm balance!
I nearly did'nt post as I hate 'mines ok -yours is not' type posts but for once it's all working ok here.
Regards

If you look at the posted charts, you can hardly call the reds accurate. I don't think folks would be having these problems if the A1/HC1 reds were more accurate than a Z1.

But maybe there really is some difference between these same products (HC1 vs. another HC1). I have A1 (PAL) and I don't think my A1's reds are best I've seen, but definitely reds are not as bad as in those charts. I have only found that sometimes (indoor light) faces can look two redish, but that's a different red problem. Anyway, reds are more red in my A1 than those charts.

Here's another side-by-side comparison, this time of an HC1 and my Sony TRV70 single-chipper:

http://home.att.net/~ghickling/HC1-TRV70.jpg

The left-hand images are in a room lit only by 2 100W incandesents 10' from the colorcard, with my body shading the card from their direct light.

In the right-hand images, the card is lit by direct morning sun.

Both cameras were set to auto exposure and auto white balance. These images are slightly-cropped framegrabs from the DV footage and .mts transport stream, respectively.

Edit1: the lack of focus is of course me not the camera - I was hurrying...
Edit2: here's a link to the chart I used: http://www.wildnaturephotos.com/WNP/Html/Color.html

I saw the pictures of Christian de Godzinsky. I understand now why he doesn't like the reds... and other colors... His camera has a problem with the sensor or other thing... That's all !

My HC1E gives me really good and brights colors... Reds are really goods... When I film a red LED it is Red ! One of my friends has the same cam with the same results... We don't understand ! Is it specific to the Never Twice Same Color model ?

I think christian has a PAL-edition. I have a PAL-edition and mine looks pretty ok to me. So I think there are a couple of faulty ones out there.

It now appears (to me) that rather than a blue bias causing the “problem”, it is just that the reds have the wrong hue and lack saturation (thus blue appears to take over). For example, I opened Christian's "Sony HDR-HC1E Automatic White Balance" image in Photoshop and was able to produce a remarkably good image by adjusting Hue/Saturation for Red alone. I simply moved the red hue to +15 and the red saturation to +50. With a few additional tweaks, I believe that it would be indistinguishable from an “accurate” image. I could just as easily create presets in Color Finesse to apply to footage as I have done in the past when matching borrowed Sony cameras to my Canons.

Camera color test in a German Magazine :

Same Picture with XL-H1, JVC GY-HD100, Sony A1, Sony FX1, Sony Z1, Sony HC1.

http://www.videoaktiv.de/text.php?pos=|36|129|134&nav_id=134

Thanks for that Rodolpe.

I've seen those still test shots before.
- the reds in those shots look fine and HC1/A1 look very little different to FX1/Z1. Certainly not a dramatic difference.
EDIT: Actually, looking more closely at those shots again, the HC1 red (background on the right) DOES look more pinkish than the other cams. It appears to me to be 'worse' than A1. A1 doesn't seem as bad.

So again, i conclude that this is maybe an 'early' problem with some HC1's or maybe it is still happening and some people are unlucky and get a bad unit.

Oh to know a Sony engineer in Japan who's happy to talk...

well this topic is No. 1 hot topic here :)

I fully agree with folks who claim no red problem from their real shooting footage. Since I could not find the problem myself in my practical shooting. that is why I claimed that my HC1 has no red problem in another post. However everybody knows that reality tests sometimes are so differerent from the lab tests, and here it comes.

I repeated christian's test in a very simple way, I printed his chart in my color ink jet printer, and use my HC1 to test the chart myself. I did indoor test and the results seem to be as bad as his. Interesting enough, I use the same way to repeat Graham's test and find the results are much better and similar to the result that Graham had got. So what is the point here? Frankly speaking I do not know... I am wondering whether any one can use the same color board that chrisdon has used and report their results? especially for the people who has A1?

After seeing very positive results on Christian's images from a simple red hue/saturation adjustment, I am certain that there are practical methods for dealing with this reds issue. I am considering trying the following to see the effect, since it would be nice to capture colors accurately rather than fixing in post (though admittedly my images do not appear as "off" as some I have seen here):

1) Manual white balance

2) Attach a color compensating filter like a CC30R Red or CC40R Red (to absorb some blue and green thus increasing the relative red value)

3) Increase the HC1 camera color setting to "re-saturate" the colors (but now with a higher relative red value)

4) Adjust the red hue a bit (if necessary) when color correcting in post (I would be color correcting in post anyway).


Yes, it would be wonderful if a firmware fix appeared... but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting.


On a less practical note, if Lorin Thwaits' thoughts (from 2005) on the HDR-HC1’s dynamic range and exposure settings (http://geekswithblogs.net/lorint/archive/2005/12/23/64031.aspx
) have any validity, it would definitely seem that more light would be key in getting this camera to produce better colors, since a greater bit range would be used to represent red, green, and blue when the aperture is changed (he wasn't aware of the shutter speed/exposure exclusivity at the time, but still an interesting read). So, I guess...

5) Lots of light! (Especially since the CC filter would probably cut a stop or more. And I guess this would really be #1)

:-)

Hi all,

I am pleased to see that my small contribution has resulted in a very constructive and at least to me (and the originator) important discussion. I am likely pleased to know that I am not alone. But mostly pleased I am because there seems to be some of you out there (Rodolphe to mention one) that have well behaving HC1's. This IS reassuring, especially when I am going to send this cam for a checkup. I beg in my "evening prayers" that there IS a solution :)

Yes - my HC1 is a PAL version.

John, your procedure how to counterfeit this shortcoming sounds interesting and probably workable. I don't have in my posession the reguired filters. They are probably expensive and I am not willing to buy them just to experiment. I have spent already countless hours trying to figure out the problem.

However, this is nothing that you should be forced to do to get decent color reproduction of an expensive high end HDV prosumer camcorder, when you can get much better color reproduction with a 5 times cheaper consumer camcorder!!! Something is really wrong here!

And you are right - this is not something that you should be FORCED to do in the postprocessing. First of all - all material does not get post processed. Secondly, such an additional required color correction filtering would cause already the less than real-time rendering jump to ridiculous time rendering... Especially in the HD format.

I think that we can at least make that conclusion that there is a more than a sporadic (systematic?) problem with some HC1's color reproduction. Sony has been a synonyme for quality, not always necessary good customer service.

They MUST react in severe situations like this, otherwise customers will disappear for good. Bad news spreads quickly!! OK - its my blame when I blindly bought this cam without checking it first. I just read some test reports that prised this cam to be very high quality.... I think that no-one of you would have thought that a HD-cam can have such bad color rendering. High definition should also mean high quality - overall. What ís the use of the extra pixels if the colors are worse than in DV?

I am going to shoot some additional pics also using the old Sony consumer CDR-PC5E cam that I still have. It was a great cam when released. I would say that it has very warm colors to be a Sony cam - comparable to my Canon MVX2i.

If I have time I will shoot the same color card with various camera settings and lighting color temperatures. I have to do it now during the weekend, I will send the HC1 next week alone on a trip to France...

By the way - I finally found a way to compare these cams worldwide. Some of you have suggested to use Coke bottles for a standard red. I have bad news - there is a huge variation in "coke-red" in different countries.

My solution = color pencils of the make "STAEDTLER" (those hexagonal shaped cross section color wooden pencils) are sold at least all over Europe in book-stores. You can find them in all different and bright colors. I just borrowed my sons set and I am going to shoot them as well. This would provide a simple and cheap way to compare our HC1's. Please check next time you go to a book shop if they are available :)

Because the problem shows up also in stills I would suggest to capture still images, would be anyway easier - or? It would be nice to see also some A1 shots !!!

And here again is the link to the color card pics for possible new browser's convenience ;)

http://www.dextrel.net/photogallery/real.htm

Regards,

Christian

True, we shouldn't be forced to do anything. But I guess I look at it as a practical issue. As I said before, it is what it is. Outside of firmware or replacements, we can only figure out ways to work with it as it is.



My solution = color pencils of the make "STAEDTLER" ...
Christian

This beats the Tickle-Me-Elmo and blood methods. :-)


Because the problem shows up also in stills I would suggest to capture still images, would be anyway easier - or? It would be nice to see also some A1 shots !!!


Remember that with the Data Code function setting in the menu, you can see the camera settings information during playback. This will be useful when comparing different cameras. It will provide settings used for exposure, white balance, gain, shutter speed, and aperture.

I used my A1 to take still photos of several red objects, and there is a noticeable red inaccuracy. I will try to post comparison footages taken with the A1 (still mode) and a plain 2.8megapixel digital camera, which had much better red accuracy (but it had a flash).

http://www.xanga.com/GhostThoughts

Comparison of still images of reds.

Hi Alex,

Thanks for the images. However, it might be unfair to compare the two cameras whe the other is using flash. The flash color temperature is very much different from normal ambient lighting. I'll do a comparison during the weekend and likewise try to avoid using the flash.

Anyhow, looking at the optical mouse led tells already that there is something wrong with the reds in the HC cam.

Christian

We need to be careful to not get off-track here. Poor representation of reds is a different issue from poor overall color balance. It is well-known that Sony cameras tend towards a 'cool' color balance.

For example, the first two images on the GhostThoughts site clearly differ in overall color balance (compare the tones in the neutral-colored wall at the edge of the poster). When I downloaded those two images into Photoshop and applied 'autocolor' they became almost identical.... in other words, the necessary chroma info is there, but the overall balance is somewhat out of whack. These kinds of color balance issues can tackled either in-camera (e.g. a previous post suggested whitebalancing on a pale green or blue card) and/or in post.

The more concerning issue, that motivated this thread, was that some HC1s/A1s seem to have a selective problem with red representation that's NOT fixable through overall color balance adjustment. (Some of the later images at GhostThoughts do perhaps demonstrate that problem....).

ha, I guess now everyone is clear about the HC1/A1 red color problem. Bright red does have problems on certain situations. ghosthoughts's picture of mouse led is the typical bad situation for red ...

I do not think there is anything that customers can do for this issue, we can only hope SONY will do something....

Just one thing, how is HC3's performance with mouse led ? hope some HC3 users can provide the information.

Yeah, that's what I was trying to show - the red inaccuracies, not trying to compare the resolution, color balance, lighting, etc. I will, however, try to get another test where both cameras will not being using flash and I'll compare in identical lighting - enough lighting so that it won't stress the low light capabilities of either camera.

Hi everyone,

I will today shoot some more images using three cams to compare the color reproduction of HC1. Please remember that these are NOT any laboratory experiments - just comparisons how three different cams behave under similar circumstances...

Within one day or two I will post the results on my web site :)

Christian

Here is a comparison between a Canon S80, a Sony HVR-A1J and a Sony HC1.

The Canon S80 is an 8m pixel still camera, I have downsized the picture to match the size of the A1J image.

The A1J is using Cinetone type 2 + black stretch, one-push WB on a sheet of paper.

The HC1 is using one-push WB to a sheet of paper (the same one). Note: the HC1 recently (last week) had its sensor replaced due to dust contanimation.

The S80 is using ISO400, slightly reduced exposure, auto white balance. No flash for either camera.

Sony A1J: http://www.villamil.org/photos/DSC00064.JPG

Sony HC1: http://www.villamil.org/photos/DSC06059.JPG

Canon: http://www.villamil.org/photos/IMG_0845.JPG

The results look OK to me, with color on the A1J a bit more saturated, probably due to the Cinetone. The Canon has done a better job of capturing the tone of the tuna.

thanks for that Gian.

to me both the A1J and the HC1 (new sensor..) look pretty good and fairly close to the Canon still shot. no it's not the same, (look at the red at the centre of the Japanese flag) but also it looks entirely acceptable.

I will be getting my A1 in the coming days. But would like to know if the Red Accuracy shows up on the LCD.

Does the Red problem shows up on the camera's LCD? Or only obvious on Monitors ?

I would hope to search around and look for an A1P that is not "infected".

Thanks

When you're in bright light situations, the color on the LCD gets washed out and it's hard to make critical calls like judging the reds, but yes, I have seen the red problem on the LCD as well.

Interesting, I haven't seen it on the LCD/VF at all.

Hi,

I can see the reds problem on the HC1 LCD panel clearly.

I promised to publish more comparison resluts lately. I am sorry fo the delay but I have been travelling. I have, however, made a big effort shooting a video of such objects that should be available around the world. I have used 3 different cams under different lighting conditions - one is the HC1.

After a LOT of thinking I think I found an excellent object to shoot if we want to compare colors - LEGO BRICKS!!!

They are available all around the world, and if you have kids just walk to their rooms for a search. I found many different coloured bricks that make a good colour pallette. To my knowledge all bricks are manufactured at the same location, and are very durable both by themselves but also the colors are very stable.

I will post the promised video shortly. I let you know when.

Christian

HI,

Check the following thread for the story!

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=55503

Great News !!!

Christian