I have a question about Paolo's True Colour settings. Does V3 render V2 totally obsolete or there are still situations where V2 or even V1 would be recommended over V3?
Does V2 have a wider dynamic range or something? Would any of them be recommended to shot a low key lit with lots of shadows night shoot show?

Version 3 is an improvement from V2 so I encourage you to use the newest version.

Why do we use these scene files? Can't we have these effects in post with After Effects or something?

It depends, TrueColor is meant to make the work in post easier and more precise. It's also intended to give you the widest latitude with your camera. If you crush your blacks because of a uncalibrated camera, there is no amount of post that you can do.
I am against using "camera looks" with digital cameras except in specific cases, the use of a scene file is meant, in my workflow, as a tool to keep the camera calibrated to the widest latitude and to the most neutral settings. If you think that that would be the default from the factory, well,m think again :)
DSC made a whole business based on the fact that cameras usually come out of the factory un-calibrated.

Version 3 is an improvement from V2 so I encourage you to use the newest version.

Thanks Paolo.

It depends, TrueColor is meant to make the work in post easier and more precise. It's also intended to give you the widest latitude with your camera. If you crush your blacks because of a uncalibrated camera, there is no amount of post that you can do.
I am against using "camera looks" with digital cameras except in specific cases, the use of a scene file is meant, in my workflow, as a tool to keep the camera calibrated to the widest latitude and to the most neutral settings. If you think that that would be the default from the factory, well,m think again :)
DSC made a whole business based on the fact that cameras usually come out of the factory un-calibrated.

So it seems TrueColor is much like the so called “digital negative” way of shooting that F900 DPs talk about.. You use it to get the cleanest image possible and work on it in post to achieve the look you want. That’s basically what most DPs shooting the F900 for narrative do. Get the cleanest and widest latitude possible and work on it in post. Good stuff.


If you are capturing with an uncompressed card, then definitely attempt to optimize the maximum latitude possible for your scene and manipulate the image in post.

Isn’t that what TrueColor is made for anyways? At least according to Paolo.
About capturing uncompressed, judging by Taylor’s experiences posted on this boards and his ShowReel article, it seems in the case of the HD100 and the component out, there isn’t much advantage in capturing uncompressed really. Maybe with the HD250 and SDI, but with the analog component doesn’t seem to be worth the trouble or expense. The results Taylor got in post when manipulating the HDV signal was amazing. I don't remember exactly now, but I think Taylor even used TrueColor, didn't he?

So it seems TrueColor is much like the so called “digital negative” way of shooting that F900 DPs talk about.. You use it to get the cleanest image possible and work on it in post to achieve the look you want.

Yes, regardless the camera, the F900 is very high-end but the same is valid for all digital camera, your latitude is currently more limited than with film. By avoiding creating a bias in the digital negative, and by carefully calibrating the camera, you obtain the most complete digital signal that the
camera can give you. When you bring that signal inside your compositing/NLE suite you can use the massive processing power and precision of modern computers to do the kind of manipulation that you need and you have the advantage of the "Undo" function. Also, things like stacking copies of the same clip using the blend mode are not achievable in camera.


Isn’t that what TrueColor is made for anyways?

That's exactly the reason for it.


About capturing uncompressed, judging by Taylor’s experiences posted on this boards and his ShowReel article, it seems in the case of the HD100 and the component out, there isn’t much advantage in capturing uncompressed really.

Actually I disagree on that. It's not always needed, one size deosn't fit all :), but the use of 4:2:2 instead of 4:2:0 has advantages. Background noise is one of the biggest problems of HDV compression and uncompressed component out addresses that.

Also, things like stacking copies of the same clip using the blend mode are not achievable in camera.


What do you mean?

What do you mean?
This is something you do in programs like FCP or After Effects. Say that you need to brighten some clip. You can use color correction of duplicate the clip, stack the copy on a track above the original, set the blend mode to "Add" and then set the opacity to, oh say, 30%-40%.
You have to see it in action. Very easy trick to add more detail to dark clips without shifting the colors and very easy to adjust by playing with the transparency level.

Hi there, I'm eager to download Steven Noe's Panamatch-scenefiles, but the forum says I'm not allowed to open that page. Anyone knows why?

Hey Paulo, have you measured how many stops of exposure you get with your tc3 scene file?

Hey Paolo, have you measured how many stops of exposure you get with your tc3 scene file?

It's about 6.

Paulo, Could you comment on applying your scene file to the HD200 series?
My feeling is that it isn't a direct translation after looking at comparision footage. I realize you may want to take some more time before releasing a 200 series scene file with your name on it, but some hints would be really appreciated!

Hi Sean.

No, the HD100 color settings cannot be applied to the HD200, the 14-bit color matrix is not compatible with the 12-bit version of the HD100 and the resulting colors will be totally wrong.

I just finished arrangements with JVC during NAB and I will receive a HD250 from JVC soon. I take the opportunity to thank Marion Ciliberto of JVC for the cooperation and for making this possible. As soon as I receive the camera I will work on a version of TrueColor for that camera. This version will also sport even more accurate configuration thanks to the ChromaDuMonde chart provided by DSC.

I had a long conversation with David Corley, founder of DSC, at NAB. Truly one of the highlights of the event. David has forgotten more that most of us will ever know about color and cameras and he is very a very approachable person with a passion for education and sharing.

If you have the chance to go to any of the trade shows where DSC shows its product please stop by and take the opportunity to take a look. Very likely you'll learn something new about your camera. BTW, DSC has a new backfocus chart that solves the issue of adjusting back-focus when the lens is in wide-angle mode. Defintely worth consideration: http://www.dsclabs.com

If everything goes well I should have an HD200/250 version of TrueColor in 3-4 weeks. I will keep you posted.

Hey Paolo,

Thanks for taking the time to do this, you do awesome work. Also thanks to JVC for the loaner.

Will your new color files for the 200/250 be for SD and HD, or just for HD?

Thanks again,

Carl

I calibrate the cameras strictly in HD mode.

Take care.

I calibrate the cameras strictly in HD mode.

Take care.

The reason I asked is that I use your T-3 on my 100 in DV-SD and the picture is great.

Thanks

Awesome. Thanks Paulo. You confirmed my suspicions, since I had put in yours and tried some others scene files, and results were different from those I had seen online. I don't have good color charts, or a proper calibrated monitor yet, but I don't want to compromise the footage I acquire.
Sorry if I was pushy on this, since for some reason I thought you had mentioned you already had a 200 series camera to work with.

Thanks also to JVC USA and DSC for assistance here. This really is a win-win situation for all concerned!

I'll also be very interested for your input on the picture noise that can be intermittently troublesome on the 200 series when you get yours. This might even be from some of us abusing the scene parameters - possibly even by trying to use 100 series settings (which I was guilty of doing).

The reason I asked is that I use your T-3 on my 100 in DV-SD and the picture is great.

I bet :)
The difference between 601 and 709 color spaces is minimal so I'm not surprised. I just wanted to make sure that I don't do any verification or test in SD.

Take care.

Hello All,

Since the DVinfo server share is D.O.A. and I get the request often enough, I'll post the "Panamatch" recipe here in screenshot format.

Click here for Panamatch Recipe (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/attachment.php?attachmentid=3419&d=1181405977)

Enjoy! and Keep Shooting!!

please help. I'd love to check out Stephen Noe's scene files. Can anyone help? I tried to download them from the links but they don't work.

Thanks!

Hi Folks

Have had a good look through the forum, but may be missing the answer.

THe scene files that Paolo and Tim have put up, especially the true colour files, do they work on the PAL versions of the 101 and 201, and also in SD mode or only HD mode.

regards
Dean Lomax

What are some of the qualatative differences between these two settings? They seem similar but panamatch seems to a more comprehensive list of settings.

I just received my DSC Camette v8.1. Not exactly huge, but, it works, I think. I went thru Paolo's procedure for the HD110 and came up with some different numbers. For what it's worth, here's what I got:

AE LEVEL +3
MASTER BLACK -3
BLACK COMPRESS +3
WHITE CLIP 108%
KNEE MANUAL
LEVEL 90%
CINELIKE OFF
MATRIX STANDARD
RGAIN NORMAL
RROT 4
GGAIN 2
GROT NORMAL
BGAIN 2
BROT -2
ADVANCED GAMMA CINE
LEVEL MAX
COLOR GAIN NORMAL
WHITE PAINT B +15 AT 3700 KELVIN

I used a high power quartz light and white balanced very carefully. It was very difficult bringing yellow in on the vectorscope until I introduced the Blue white paint.

Not sure what I did was correct and I'll repeat the process later. Nevertheless, I'm very happy with the images I'm getting now. I have been using TC3.

I'm looking for a scene recipe for a cool blue look that retains the details of the other colors. I've toyed with using the Amelie flavor just reversing the blu and grn settings but that was ugly. Any ideas?

I'm looking for a scene recipe for a cool blue look that retains the details of the other colors.
I advice to not do that in camera, post processing is where this should be done.

Hi All,

I'm just starting to try different scene files as a starting point for adjusting the look I get with my JVC HD100U.

I happened to come across this HD demo reel and really love the way it looks - especially the outdoor shots.

http://www.flashvideofactory.com/test/DEMO720_Heima_H264_500K.html

Does anyone have an idea which scene file might come closest to approximating the look achieved here? I know there are many other factors - lol Just looking for a starting point.

Thanks!

- valentin
artist, producer, ninja

I think that's just great cinematography, framing and lighting :-) TC3 is probably a good starting point. Lots of good post work there.

I am unable to open or view Stephen Noe's scene files does anybody have a copy of the files or a link?

Thanks

I am unable to open or view Stephen Noe's scene files does anybody have a copy of the files or a link?

Thanks

Here's a copy of the Pana Match recipe David:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/attachment.php?attachmentid=3419&d=1181405977

On a similar subject I'm wondering if there are any other cine/film look recipes around at the moment.
On an upcoming 'film' project I've been asked whether I can shoot 'so it looks likes film rather than video' . Of course I explained that the camera being progressive rather than interlaced will make great strides towards this goal - an in fact on footage shown on his television set he understood the differences straight away. However aside from a wide angle lens/35mm lens and other apparatus (and lighting...composition etc) is there anything I could tweak (motion blur/cinelike) within the HD100 or should I perhaps concentrate on absorbing as much 'reality' from the lens (say using Paulo's Tru Col 3 file) and then figure the rest out in post?
I'm loading Stephen's Pana Match this week so I'll give that a good 'rummage'.

I'm struck at some of the different footage I've seen on these boards using the standard lens and indeed using Tim Dashwoods Film Noir I managed to pull off some fantastic, film looking footage.
I'm hoping Tim's DVD is released for PAL soon...:)

Here's a copy of the Pana Match recipe David:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/attachment.php?attachmentid=3419&d=1181405977

On a similar subject I'm wondering if there are any other cine/film look recipes around at the moment.
On an upcoming 'film' project I've been asked whether I can shoot 'so it looks likes film rather than video' . Of course I explained that the camera being progressive rather than interlaced will make great strides towards this goal - an in fact on footage shown on his television set he understood the differences straight away. However aside from a wide angle lens/35mm lens and other apparatus (and lighting...composition etc) is there anything I could tweak (motion blur/cinelike) within the HD100 or should I perhaps concentrate on absorbing as much 'reality' from the lens (say using Paulo's Tru Col 3 file) and then figure the rest out in post?
I'm loading Stephen's Pana Match this week so I'll give that a good 'rummage'.

I'm struck at some of the different footage I've seen on these boards using the standard lens and indeed using Tim Dashwoods Film Noir I managed to pull off some fantastic, film looking footage.
I'm hoping Tim's DVD is released for PAL soon...:)



Thanks a lot David! I am looking forward to hearing how the settings work for you. Have you tried using the or do you have the "Any Scenario" settings

Hi All,

I'm just starting to try different scene files as a starting point for adjusting the look I get with my JVC HD100U.

I happened to come across this HD demo reel and really love the way it looks - especially the outdoor shots.

http://www.flashvideofactory.com/test/DEMO720_Heima_H264_500K.html

Does anyone have an idea which scene file might come closest to approximating the look achieved here? I know there are many other factors - lol Just looking for a starting point.

Thanks!

- valentin
artist, producer, ninja

That's not a demo reel. It is a trailer for the DVD Heima by the Icelandic Band Sigur Ros.

It was all shot in HD. Not sure which format. Probably HDCAM. Very high end production.

Daniel Weber

I'm trying to find paulo's "truecolor" scene files- but it seems his website is dead. Any other links?

Hi Rob.

My site is back up. Clueless host moved to physically a new machine and forgot to mention it to me. Apologies to everybody who tried to connect in the past hours.

THANKS Paulo.
I'm looking forward to trying out the settings. But also fascinating to read about how you got there. Good practical stuff. I have a feeling it will work well with PAL- but since PAL colour is a little different, I'm now armed with knowledge that may allow me to start tweaking myself!
Regards- Rob

Paolo: just printed the calibration article. Looking quite forward to seeing it in action on the next shoot I can experiment on. Thank you in advance.

THANKS Paulo.
I'm looking forward to trying out the settings. But also fascinating to read about how you got there. Good practical stuff. I have a feeling it will work well with PAL- but since PAL colour is a little different
Hi Rob. You're very welcome. If you mean that PAL uses the SD color space instead of the 709 standard for HD then yes, there is a tiny difference but I don't think that it should account for much but let us know you're findings.

Good luck.

Hi Tim,

None of the links to my scene files are available (from the first post). Can you please relink the files? I get request for them and would like them to remain active on the board.

Thanks,

Stephen L. Noe

do these files work with the HD110?

Just ordered a new gy-hd110u, and wanted to second that question... Will these work on the 110 too? I'm assuming you still use them the same way...

Thanks!
MAT

Yes. As far as I know all the HD100 scene files should load just fine in the HD110.

I tried clicking on the zipped .scn file for the any scenario recipe, and I didn't have permission... Tried the recipe, it 404'd... Went to the discussion and clicked the link there, that worked... So, thought someone might want to fix that. Just thought I should let someone know :)

[I apologize if anyone has already posted this question]
So, in 1 day I will be taking a short (40 mins) cross country flight and back again to ‘home base.’ Since my recent purchase of the JVC HD100 I sleep with it and it doesn’t go anywhere without me…seriously…

We will be about 7 small planes (all prop) in a loose formation flying to and from our destination.

Does anyone have any tips, suggestions and or settings for shooting aerial?
Anyone have some scene files that I could load and go with?
Frame rate suggestions?

Thank you in advance!

When I was shooting with the HD100 on a 4 seater prop, and I had no stabilizer of any sort except cushions that i prop against an open window I used 60p SD which i uprezzed later in post.
I got away with it since it composed only a few seconds in the total production.
Scene file was Paolo's TC3.
If you can get away with it too, or when your final delivery is DVD or SD then I suggest this over 30P as you can use "longer" stable shots in butter vibrations and bumps when you slow down your overcranked footage.

When I got the HD200, I used 720 60P for another aerial project again without special stabilizing equipment on a four seater prop.
Scene file was Tim Dashwood's superwide but slightly modified.

60P allows you to maximize the portions that are stable when in post.


Ted

As a newbie, very much thank you for this kind of posts.

J.

I have so been looking for a thread like this. Excellent. Thanks all who spent the time on this.

Detail: Min to -5
Color Matrix & Gama: Normal. (I can and often do lower the saturation in post by 25 in FCP)

Exposing for the Highlights on faces and black stretching for the shadows...

In comparison to automatic exposure. Meaning if the camera thinks the scene calls for f4 but I think f5.6 is needed for taming the highlights on a subjects face, I'll then do a Black Stretch of 2, assuming I don't have a reflector and assitant to do it without the digital blackstretch.

Close down 1/3 = 1 Black Stretch
Close down 2/3 to 1 Full stop then 2 Black Stretch.


Im reverting to something a little more simpler these days.... Mostly because i'm not happy with the CineGama setting that I thought I used to like... I've never liked the low end of CineGama where the blacks fall off too quickly. That to me was what video always looked like, not film. Film to me was always less contrasty, especially with movie film. I'm still using my JVC HD110 and Fujinon 16x lens.. though my Nikon E' 100 lens is quite nice by comparison, but obviously only for longer non zoomable shots.

A lot of the links for the SCN files are no longer working.

Does anyone have a link to a bunch of them zipped?

This thread was started WAAAAAAY before DV Info Net had an attachment system and it looks like Apple has finally broken the links to my public iDisk (even though the files are still there.)

I have uploaded the files as attachments and updated the links in the original post.

Cheers.

Way cool Tim, Thanks for the "re-post"!
I still work with an HD110U but had my Porta Brace bag stolen in Albuquerque, New Mexico...I fortunately had the camera in my hands at that moment....
The bag had all my Scn file cards in it ... Thank god I had saved the "faves" into the camera's memory.
Anyway...where is your new post with "wide latitude, Low Light" ...etc?
Do you mean back on page 1???
Sorry...I'm a bone head but would love to recover the files.

By the way, while I'm at it I should also thank you for the "DVD" you produced!.......it saved me a lot of time getting up to speed with the camera! Great work and sharing! Thank you very very much!

Cheers!

The links to Paolo's TC3 files seem to be broken again, does anyone have the details or the file for the HD100 series cameras, as I really want to give this a try.

Kicking an old horse. Has anyone tried to use their venerable JVC HD100/110/200** to the newer JVC LS300 shooting J-Log? There are a lot of situations that the older JVC would be preferable.. that and the 17x Fujinon lens I upgraded to for events. Wish I had gotten the HD200 for the SDI output for simpler less compressed recording for post uprising to match 4K, but oh well.