Hey guys,

I've been looking for the best option for an indie film. I own an HVX200 but I know that the XL H1 has the best rez for any camera under $10,000.

So my question is this. Can I run HD-SDI out from the XL H1 to a Panasonic VTR deck and record the feed as DVCPROHD? That way, I can import the footage and edit on my Final Cut system.

Reason for the trouble? I dislike the HDV format but want to utilize the XL H1's resolution.

Is this a viable option? I don't have much experience using VTR's. Thanks!


Andrew

Indeed you can, in fact this is exactly how Canon USA recorded their "Watchmaker" 24F demo that's been circulating at their trade shows and dealer trainings. Just be aware that the SDI output from the H1 carries video and sync data only... no time code or audio. You can get time code from the H1's TC output instead. Audio is best sourced from an external sound system separate from the camera.

I was wondering if someone has tried this yet... how does the 24f translate...

Sending a crew down to Cancun for some second unit stuff... some of the tech guys at Laser Pacific said that the camera goes perfectly into an HDcam deck...

Just wanted to see if someone else has done this...

Thanks

It goes perfectly into any VTR that has an SDI input. That includes HDCAM, DigiBeta, whatever.

Thanks for the reply Chris! That's some very exciting news. I'd love to give it a shot when my film gets off the ground. Awesome!

Is it possible to run and record to a mini DV casette in camera while capturing via SDI output?

Absolutely. I just did a greenscreen shoot where I recorded the HD-SDI into my Decklink card and simultaneously recorded HDV to tape. I primarily used the tape to record the audio. I then re-sync'd them in FCP.

Robert,

Did you try keying the SDI (I'm presuming DV100 acquisition?) AND the HDV originated footage and compare the two? It would be interesting to read your take on that.

Actually captured full raster PhotoJPEG. I haven't tried keying the HDV material. But keying the P-JPG stuff is going very very well. But because it's a project for Disney I'm forbidden from sharing any of the footage or frames.

Is any of that Disney footage of the Haunted Mansion? I always loved that place!

Unfortunately no. It's for a new consumer product.

I was lucky enough, however, to shoot a project for Disney inside Disneyland back in December (a dual XL2 shoot). That was a thrill for me personally.

http://disney.go.com/inside/yearbook/

-

Actually captured full raster PhotoJPEG. I haven't tried keying the HDV material. But keying the P-JPG stuff is going very very well. But because it's a project for Disney I'm forbidden from sharing any of the footage or frames.

Glad to hear that's working well. You finally got the full raster capture. Cool...what did you change?

Speaking of Disney...

I have to share something from me 'ol film school daze. I did this for a doc filmmaking class almost 9 years ago. It's called "Disney on Ice".

http://www.threeringfilms.net/Three%20Ring%20Films/Disney%20On%20Ice.html

Encoded from the only surviving VHS copy, shot in an afternoon with a crappy 1 chip tiny Sony DV camera in "widescreen" mode, with some Super8 film too. I didn't know how to "unsqueeze" the DV at the time, and I was just beginning to use the old crappy Adobe Premiere 4.2 (mac version) with a Miro capture card. Crashes, sync problems, but it was better than the school's old D-Vision NLE systems.

Manually set the frame size to 1920x1080, square pixels, codec=PhotoJPEG, Quality = 75%.

Glad to hear that's working well. You finally got the full raster capture. Cool...what did you change?

Speaking of Disney...

I have to share something from me 'ol film school daze. I did this for a doc filmmaking class almost 9 years ago. It's called "Disney on Ice".

http://www.threeringfilms.net/Three%20Ring%20Films/Disney%20On%20Ice.html

Encoded from the only surviving VHS copy, shot in an afternoon with a crappy 1 chip tiny Sony DV camera in "widescreen" mode, with some Super8 film too. I didn't know how to "unsqueeze" the DV at the time, and I was just beginning to use the old crappy Adobe Premiere 4.2 (mac version) with a Miro capture card. Crashes, sync problems, but it was better than the school's old D-Vision NLE systems.

Dude. That was some funny *** ****! I love Mickey doing the "loco" sign. LOL! Brilliant!

Thanks man. I can't take much credit other than shooting and editing it. My friend Joe Reafsnyder and I came up with the idea quickly and shot the thing a few days before our project was due.

Credit where credit's due: my friend Tony just ad-libbed everything. Funny guy.

Hilarious feature (or bagatelle)! Great fun!

Does the Panasonic deck record the 1080 24F signal coming in through SDI as 1080 24F or does it convert it to 720P 24F. I realized that now that Panasonic does both I wasn't sure if this conversion takes place? When you edit the footage if it stays 1080 is it as easy to edit as the 720?

I thought there was a Panny deck that will do the upconvert to 1080...

Gary,
Let me clarify.
I am asking what the Panny deck records. XLH1 HDV is 1080 60i, 30, 24F. Varicam is 720 60-24P. When the Panny deck sees the HD SDI signal from Canon it is 1080. Does the deck record it as 1080 or does it convert it to 720? Does the tape for all intents and purposes act like it was recorded from a Varicam?
Since Panasonic is now making some HD cameras with 1080 signals have the decks caught up so they can record 1080?

The deck can record either 1080 or 720.

In the case of the XLH1, it's outputting a 1080/60i signal, with 24F embedded in 60i. That's what the deck would record.

Barry,
Thanks that is what I was thinking. So this method doesn't help you to edit in DVCPRO 100HD. It does give you a better recording quality than HDV.

Well... I mean, it does help you edit, if you're using FCP for example. FCP can connect via firewire to that deck and import the footage and work on it in realtime. It's a DVCPRO-HD deck, so the format it records is the same as what FCP (and Avid and Canopus) edit natively. Is that what you meant?

Thanks Barry...

I thought that the deck out puted 1080 so I was hoping it would record it as well... cool...

Anyone have a clue how much the deck costs...

Base MSRP is around $21,000, but you'd also want the firewire and HD-SDI cards, so you're looking at around $30,000 or so.

Thanks... but just a little bit out of my price range right now...

Barry,
Thanks for the info. I was actually wondering about Final Cut handling the 1080 signal coming down the firewire. I know FCP can handle the 720 but wasn't sure how it would deal with the 1080 in realtime. Obviously a Kona Card set up.
A client was asking about recording with this method and I realized how murky the actual details were.

Daniel,

I record HDV to SDI or straight live camera to SDI all the time, and it works very very well. With a Kona card or Decklink, the SDI signal just shows up in your capture window, provided you're using the proper capture settings. You can capture 1080i 100mbs DVCproHD and edit easily with a G5. Works quite well. If you want a true 1080p timeline, you have to extract the 3:2 pulldown from the DVCproHD clips in Cinema Tools, but it does work if you're willing to go the extra mile.

I edit H1 material almost exclusively in DVCProHD or PhotoJPEG formats. No problems at all, and it doesn't require a RAID.

I know FCP can handle the 720 but wasn't sure how it would deal with the 1080 in realtime. Obviously a Kona Card set up.
I can run multiple streams of 1080/60i DVCPRO-HD on my lowly G5 dual 2.0, realtime, from the internal hard disk. You don't need a Kona or anything to do that, firewire is all you need to import the footage. And with FCP 5.1 they've added support for 1080/24pA too.

If you want to see the output on a separate monitor (other than the digital cinema desktop preview) you may need the Kona for that. But for editing, any decently-powerful Mac should be able to handle it.

Witch Panasonic tape deck are we talking about here? Would the Panasonic AJ-SD2551394SDI DVCPRO Digital Video Cassette Recorder work for recording it, or would it only be useable for SD footage?

Witch Panasonic tape deck are we talking about here? Would the Panasonic AJ-SD2551394SDI DVCPRO Digital Video Cassette Recorder work for recording it, or would it only be useable for SD footage?

Yep, only SD. There talking about these decks:

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelList?storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&catGroupId=15767

ahhh I see. Couldn't find those on B&H. Thanks

when we're talking about "uncompressed" we're talking 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 or... whatever the recorder decides is proper?

PS if using SDI, how does one use it as a portable solution?