How does one Mic the bride if she is wearing a gown that won't allow a mic. The vows will be exchanged on a moat so cables are not a possibility, and we do have two wireless Senn's. If I just mic the groom, the sound will be too soft to pick up the bride. There may be a podium to place a wireless and turn up the sesitivity but I don't know the logistics of that. I'm stumped.

I have never yet mic'd a bride. For one, I don't have a white mic.

Actually, I have found if you use a good omni-directional lav on the groom it picks up the bride fairly well (just a bit of tweaking in post). Remember, when they exchange vows, normally they are holding hands, so her mouth is maybe 20 inches from the mic. To help, I always tell the B&G to state their vows loud and clear, after all, they are getting married!

For backup, you could always plant a mic some place up near the altar. I always had great luck with this approach.

To mic (and un-mic) a groom is rather easy. 99% of the time it can be done just with his jacket. To mic a bride in a form-fitting gown can get a bit tricky....and a bit touchy.....

Granted, I've only shot two weddings so far, but in both cases, the brides were very soft-spoken. I was amazed how well the Azden wireless mic picked up both of them. A little tweaking in post and they sounded great.

Also, in both cases, there would have been almost no way to mic the bride without it being obvious.

I would steer clear of mic'ing the bride. There is normally no place to hide a wireless tx and most often a mic (even lav) will show on her gown.

A good lav mic on the groom is the best solution.

Cheers

You could always use an ACE bandage strapped around her waist to hold the transmitter and white gaff to hide the cord and mic. However, it is very invasive and you might have to wait until she changes at the end of the evening to get your mic back. I would mic the groom and the minister.

I HIGHLY recommend you NOT place a wireless mic on the bride. This is a no no with wedding videography. If you are concerned with audio on her.....then double mic the groom.....set the levels on the 1 st mic/camera for the groom....then on the sencond wireless mic.....set the levels for the bride and officiant which in return will most likely give you hot audio on the groom but that is ok since the other mic is covering him....only be concerned with the levels on the bride/officiant for the 2nd mic.

We always mic the groom...and the officiant seperately. Why aren't you setting your audio like that, if you have 2 wireless systems?

The ace bandage thing is a bad idea...especially putting tape anywhere on a bridem regardless the color of it. The options above should best suit your audio needs.

Having over modulated audio does not help the process.

I think we get the point. Just don't mic the Bride. It's just not right.

Eric Hansen
www.ehansenproductions.com

What about only miking the officiant?

I HIGHLY recommend you NOT place a wireless mic on the bride. This is a no no with wedding videography. If you are concerned with audio on her.....then double mic the groom.....set the levels on the 1 st mic/camera for the groom....then on the sencond wireless mic.....set the levels for the bride and officiant which in return will most likely give you hot audio on the groom but that is ok since the other mic is covering him....only be concerned with the levels on the bride/officiant for the 2nd mic.

We always mic the groom...and the officiant seperately. Why aren't you setting your audio like that, if you have 2 wireless systems?

The ace bandage thing is a bad idea...especially putting tape anywhere on a bridem regardless the color of it. The options above should best suit your audio needs.
This was the tip I needed. I hadn't thought of using two on the groom and upping the sensitivity. Great tip. Thanks!
Of course miking the officiant is also a good possibility. Maybe a little experimenting in the rehearsal is in order.

Whatever you do, when your mic'ing people at a wedding, please think of still pictures. The b&g do not want to see a mess of wires and mics in their pictures.

Peter...you have no clue what you are saying nor can read or understand properly what I wrote....thats all I'll say cuz im not about to write another long paragraph explaining it......keep on the using your ace bandages. I get fired up when someone doesnt know what they are talking about...it sure isnt me!



to the guy who started the thread.....double mic'ing is a decent alternative...let us know how it works for you.....and make sure you practice it first at home wit similar circumstances. id attempt to get one on groom and one on the officiant if possible

Peter-overmodulation on the groom is ok when all you care about is the bride/officiants audio on wireless lav #2, not on wirless lav #1....thats why the groom has his own lav and channel and he's double mic'd....the double micing are not both for the groom...DUH! Get it???


and Patrick made a very good point regarding photos....hide the mics, cables etc best that you can without hurting your sound.....


Having over modulated audio does not help the process.

It appears Joe Allen and I are not going to agree on much. Placing a mic on the bride is perfectly acceptable. If the bride is willing to wear one and her wedding dress has a place to conceal the transmitter, definitely do it because the best way to capture good quality sound is to get the microphone as close to the speaker's voice as possible...in any situation. Being forced to rely on a mic placed on the groom or officiate is a second best solution, even though it is the method most often used.

Assuming your bride is willing to wear a mic I would advise her to wear the mic as follows (her bridesmaids will have to put it on her unless you have a woman assistant):
The transmitter will have to be placed inside the dress if there are no bows and such to conceal it outside the dress. Talk with the bride about this as she will have a much better knowledge of how the dress is constructed. I've had several brides place the transmitter in the small of their back and zip the dress over it. Removing the belt clip makes it more comfortable to wear. Clipping onto a bra stap (if worn) is also a good location. The mic cable is threaded inside the dress around the torso and exposed at armpit level, or as high as possible along the line of the dress on the left side. This way the mic will be upstage of the wedding guests and less likely to be visible in both video and photographs. For indoor weddings the windscreen is kept off. For outside weddings the windscreen needs to stay on the mic. Color matching the mic itself is good idea and worth the extra effort.

So, instruct a bridesmaid on how to place the mic and transmitter, and have her turn it on and leave it on. Pre arrange when and where she will be able to return the mic to you. You'll need to mute her channel until you are ready to record her voice. I connect audio from all four of my wireless mics into an audio mixer so I can easily mute any mic I don't need at any time (and yes, one camera is always locked onto a tripod during the entire ceremony).

There are, of course other approaches. Using an iRiver MP3 recorder with a Giant Squid mic yields excellent results It has to be the 700 or 800 series iRiver, and the Giant Squid has to be custom made for the iRiver. The new iRiver models don't allow for external mic use. Indeed, the giant squid mics, whether made for iRivers or not have received exceptional reviews for their sensitivity, and many videographers who choose not to even address the issue of the bride wearing a mic swear by them. Mini disc recorders are also a good substiture. A good omni directional mic concealed in a wedding arch is another possibility.

There a re lots of ways to solve this. Give it thought, and discuss your concerns with bride and groom. Once they understand your worry, they will be more than willing to help.

dude...youre a crack up too! so youre gonna rely on a bridesmaid to do something that could significantly affect your audio, yeah man!.....and it is NOT ok to plave a wireless setup on a bride...you KNOW NOTHING about women obviously!, its because your are not capable of making it happen otherwise, thats why you would do something like that......but keep up your work, guys like you make me look that much better. i have to get out of this forum.....your wack ideas and advice to newbies drives me crazy....




It appears Joe Allen and I are not going to agree on much. Placing a mic on the bride is perfectly acceptable. If the bride is willing to wear one and her wedding dress has a place to conceal the transmitter, definitely do it because the best way to capture good quality sound is to get the microphone as close to the speaker's voice as possible...in any situation. Being forced to rely on a mic placed on the groom or officiate is a second best solution, even though it is the method most often used.

Assuming your bride is willing to wear a mic I would advise her to wear the mic as follows (her bridesmaids will have to put it on her unless you have a woman assistant):
The transmitter will have to be placed inside the dress if there are no bows and such to conceal it outside the dress. Talk with the bride about this as she will have a much better knowledge of how the dress is constructed. I've had several brides place the transmitter in the small of their back and zip the dress over it. Removing the belt clip makes it more comfortable to wear. Clipping onto a bra stap (if worn) is also a good location. The mic cable is threaded inside the dress around the torso and exposed at armpit level, or as high as possible along the line of the dress on the left side. This way the mic will be upstage of the wedding guests and less likely to be visible in both video and photographs. For indoor weddings the windscreen is kept off. For outside weddings the windscreen needs to stay on the mic. Color matching the mic itself is good idea and worth the extra effort.

So, instruct a bridesmaid on how to place the mic and transmitter, and have her turn it on and leave it on. Pre arrange when and where she will be able to return the mic to you. You'll need to mute her channel until you are ready to record her voice. I connect audio from all four of my wireless mics into an audio mixer so I can easily mute any mic I don't need at any time (and yes, one camera is always locked onto a tripod during the entire ceremony).

There are, of course other approaches. Using an iRiver MP3 recorder with a Giant Squid mic yields excellent results It has to be the 700 or 800 series iRiver, and the Giant Squid has to be custom made for the iRiver. The new iRiver models don't allow for external mic use. Indeed, the giant squid mics, whether made for iRivers or not have received exceptional reviews for their sensitivity, and many videographers who choose not to even address the issue of the bride wearing a mic swear by them. Mini disc recorders are also a good substiture. A good omni directional mic concealed in a wedding arch is another possibility.

There a re lots of ways to solve this. Give it thought, and discuss your concerns with bride and groom. Once they understand your worry, they will be more than willing to help.

Well planned production will always win. This is real documentary work so why not be the best at it.

Thanks for the insightful piece on mic placement for a bride. I think this will work just fine.

Also, your cool reply is a welcome contrast to the "DUUUUUDE what are you doing" perspective.

Well, here is my market research on the issue. I took a trip to the local high end wedding gown shop and asked the 8 brides that came in during the hour I was there about this issue.

The question: "If you had the choice between perfect audio with you wearing a mic and fairly good audio without you wearing a mic, which would you choose?"

I also showed them what they would wear (lectrosonics wireless).

wear a mic = 0
not wear it = 8

That's enough for me!

Mike

I say it like it is....take it or leave it but Gene needs solid advice here....not some wack opinions on where to place a mic. I work in television as a camera op and field sound besides the wedding stuff, so I know from much experience how to get the audio needed. How does leaving a bridesmaid to turn on your wireless set up hold merit....it doesnt, plain and simple....not to mention you are asking for serious trouble by doing so. Maybe he holds other good ideas, but that has nothing to do with the thread.
Gene....try what I explained earlier and I bet you will be happy with the results.....and your client(the bride) will be soooo happy she isn't stuck with wearing a wireless mic....GUARENTEED! Also....make sure you do not (coil) the slack of the lav cable....another no no...can give you audio issues, simply have the groom place it down his pants leg if possible....youll need some privacy for this part obviouisly.





Well planned production will always win. This is real documentary work so why not be the best at it.

Thanks for the insightful piece on mic placement for a bride. I think this will work just fine.

Also, your cool reply is a welcome contrast to the "DUUUUUDE what are you doing" perspective.

...I work in television as a camera op and field sound besides the wedding stuff, so I know from much experience how to get the audio needed.
I gather from this comment that my Masters degree in theatrical staging techniques, ten years professional theatre experience, and twenty five years work as an audio visual technician in the meetings and conventions industry (where I typically used in live situations a dozen wireless mic systems virtualy every working day) doesn't count for much in the way of experience.

The fact is every working professional develops preferred methods of using the tools of their trade, usually based upon what they have learned gives them reliable results. Some pros learn how to be flexible and adaptable. Some don't.

How does leaving a bridesmaid to turn on your wireless set up hold merit....
That will depend upon how well the equipment is prepared and how much of a command one has with the English language. Giving clear, simple, succinctly stated instructions goes a long way towards avoiding potential problems.

Also....make sure you do not (coil) the slack of the lav cable....another no no...can give you audio issues, simply have the groom place it down his pants leg if possible....youll need some privacy for this part obviouisly.

Absolutely! Most wireless lapel mic systems use the shield of the mic cable as an antenna. Coiling the cable can significantly reduce transmission range and a host of other issues as well.

Well, here is my market research on the issue. I took a trip to the local high end wedding gown shop and asked the 8 brides that came in during the hour I was there about this issue.

The question: "If you had the choice between perfect audio with you wearing a mic and fairly good audio without you wearing a mic, which would you choose?"

I also showed them what they would wear (lectrosonics wireless).

wear a mic = 0
not wear it = 8

That's enough for me!

Mike

My personal experience runs about 10% of the weddings I shoot will involve a bride who is receptive to the idea. Most are so caught up in the planning and worrying about last minute details that dealing with a wireless mic is just one more detail at a time when just about every detail is an annoying one.

Nonetheless, I really like the quality of sound I get with a mic placed as close to the source as possible, so I make the subject a point of discussion as early as possible, like when the contract is signed. At some point the bride makes a decision and, I accept that as final.

I would NEVER ask a bride to wear a mic, for several reasons.

#1
By mic'ing the groom and the officiant I will have 2 sources for the bride that I can boost in post for acceptable sound.

#2
There aren't really any good ways with a bride to disguise the mic. Ace-bandaging a transmitter and using a bunch of white tape is an ingenius idea and would work really well for a movie of a wedding. However, a bride wants to look and feel beautiful on her wedding day, and I guarantee you that most brides (meaning the VAST majority) will not be interested in strapping on equipment.

The idea for double-mic'ing the groom and adjusting the levels is a great tip, and I certainly would do that before I would slap a mic on a bride.

No bride slapping, that's for sure ...LOL.

Sorry Travis, I just couldn't resist. :)

Bride slapping is a great way to get yourself into a new field of work though . . . . d:-)

I guess that is one way to make a career move!

Or get yourself killed outright!

yeah....the only reason i mentioned double mic'ing the groom is in the event the officiant wont allow himself.herself to be mic'd by us....and it has happened only once....the priest was not having a wireless mic on his body, dont know why as we didnt press the issue.....so we were forced to double mic the groom....and set levels differently for ea. the groom and bride/priest.....worked well.


I would NEVER ask a bride to wear a mic, for several reasons.

#1
By mic'ing the groom and the officiant I will have 2 sources for the bride that I can boost in post for acceptable sound.

#2
There aren't really any good ways with a bride to disguise the mic. Ace-bandaging a transmitter and using a bunch of white tape is an ingenius idea and would work really well for a movie of a wedding. However, a bride wants to look and feel beautiful on her wedding day, and I guarantee you that most brides (meaning the VAST majority) will not be interested in strapping on equipment.

The idea for double-mic'ing the groom and adjusting the levels is a great tip, and I certainly would do that before I would slap a mic on a bride.

Another idea that can work for certain situations is to place the mic within the setting itself. For example, if the bride and groom are standing under a tent, you can tape your transmitter to one of the supports in the roof of the tent and let the mic dangle down so it is above the bride and groom.

we've done similar...forgot to mention that one, good note travis.


Another idea that can work for certain situations is to place the mic within the setting itself. For example, if the bride and groom are standing under a tent, you can tape your transmitter to one of the supports in the roof of the tent and let the mic dangle down so it is above the bride and groom.

Wouldn't it make more sense to dangle a shotgun?

I don't think a shot would work out. Unless it was a really unique situation it would be way obtrusive. Also, the shot won't get the audio you are after, it just picks up too much (coughs, cell phones etc)

Mike

I would not mic the bride either.

Here is a short clip of the vows from a wedding I did last summer. There was one omni wireless lav on the groom. It picked up the groom, officiant, and the bride. Sounds alright... You do still pick up some coughing, etc... but I think it works pretty good. Put the mic on the groom a little lower than normal to balance the distance between the grooms mouth and the mic, and the brides mouth and the mic.

Vows With 1 Wireless Mic (http://www.truvisionstudios.com/demos/vows_052005.wmv)

A shotgun would have been much more visible than the little omni lapel I used. Also, I don't have a shotgun that I can hook up to my wireless system.

dude...youre a crack up too! so youre gonna rely on a bridesmaid to do something that could significantly affect your audio, yeah man!.....and it is NOT ok to plave a wireless setup on a bride...you KNOW NOTHING about women obviously!, its because your are not capable of making it happen otherwise, thats why you would do something like that......but keep up your work, guys like you make me look that much better. i have to get out of this forum.....your wack ideas and advice to newbies drives me crazy....

Chris

Is this acceptable?


Tony

If there is room, I try to plant a wired shotgun mic aimed at a podium or lecturn (used for readings, quotes, etc.) or point it towards the bride and groom. I have a little table stand mic mount that works great of this purpose. I can hide a shotgun behind flowers for example, and have great audio. Plus, I like the sound qualities of a shotgun over a wireless when done properly.

This is a nice lively discussion on a common problem. I do agree that the last thing a bride want's is another detail to think about, and some hardened black wireless transmitter to strap under her ethreal glowing white gown. The thing about not coiling the wire and letting it dangle (down his leg) would feel kinda weird for the groom, although I'm sure I could have it taped onto the pant leg or something. So I think double micing the groom will be option one. Double micing the officiant is option 2. Thanks to all for the great advice.

Wow, it's not very often I read a thread here that lowers itself to name-calling and berating others, Joe. I would think you could have disagreed strongly with Peter and Waldemar without resorting to that crap...I happen to agree with you to not mic the bride, but c'mon, lighten up, man!

"How does one Mic the bride if she is wearing a gown that won't allow a mic. The vows will be exchanged on a moat so cables are not a possibility, and we do have two wireless Senn's"

I gave the ACE bandage idea to address the issue of micing the bride. I do not recommend it, however, it is an option. You can use some MOLE SKIN, to mount the mic to her body as well. A miniature transmitter that works well can be found at Lectrosonics.http://www.lectrosonics.com/wireless/400/mm400b.htm

That's why I said it was an ingenius idea, but I just don't think it would work in practice. I have yet to see a bride in a dress that would be loose enough to comfortably conceal a transmitter under, unless you're going to strap it to her thigh (good luck with that). So, that leaves mounting a transmitter on the outside of her dress where it will be visible to everyone. I just don't really see a situation where a bride is going to go for any of this.

Maybe some of you work with a completely different type of bride than me, because I can't think of a single bride I've worked with that would go for wearing a mic.

Unless the bride and groom are standing 20 feet apart, there should be a better way to get the bride's audio I think.

"How does one Mic the bride if she is wearing a gown that won't allow a mic."

You dont...
you mic either the groom or the official, or both... then u monitor remotely and adjust levels as needed.

however for stage shows, due to costuming etc, i run varying coloured mic heads if needed, in he extremes, I get in touch with the Hair and Makeup people and arrange a hair mic (sounds wierd, but this is VERY common for theatre)

but for weddings, there is no need to touch the bride..

Matt, thanks for that clip. I think you are the only one to point out the reason why micing the groom works for all three. The mic near the groom's pocket or flower keeps it far enough from his mouth that it reduces overmodulation. The bride is usually shorter and facing directly toward the mic. This keeps her levels fairly high. The officiants are accustomed to speaking before a crowd. They may almost be too loud all the way over at the groom's lapel. Any mic that is more than 6 inches from a person's mouth will pick up other people in the room coughing, so you really can't work around the sick and the dying (that's what it seems like sometimes). Why can't people go hack up a loogy outside?

Hahahaha

oh hey heres a loogy for ya...

shot a wedding last weekend at this upclass eastern suburbs church and ive NEVER had interferance with my mics EVER... From shooting on cruiseliner through to boats and military bases where radio interferance should run wild, i am yet to have a mic drop out... by the way im using a G1 Sennheiser for weddings and use the G2 as a backup.

now the system they had was also UHF and pretty decent, but they stuffed up.. instead of adjusting the volume from the PA system, they adjusted the "volume" from the mics line input...
needless to say when they boosted the volume up a little, feedback rang through the church, they all turned to me thinking it was our system (which it wasnt) either way i turned off the grooms transmitter and the feedback continued for about 5 minutes until they turned off the PA... <if it was my system, it should have stopped as soon as i killed the transmitter and reciever>

the point here is that irrespective of how good a wireless sytem u have, or how ingenous you can be with planting a microphone, if the venue is run by morons who havent a clue, then be prepared for the worst... and be prepared to accept that maybe your system COULD be the one at fault and be prepared to sacrifice it if you have to. If just to shut them up about their "concerns" which are uneducated.. we might KNOW that its not our systems, but theres really no time to argue, so do what they say, and when THEIR system continues to fail, then youve saved face anyway...
then advise the couple of the actual problem.
In my case i took the details of the PA people who set up this particular sound system and forwarded them to my client. At least this way, If they want compensation, im not liable for the venues stuff up which caused me to disable my own audio equipment....

you gotta cover your arse...

I did a wedding in a large church over the summer (one of those churches with all the latest greatest technology). Anyway, the church was micing everyone and had their "sound guy" running the board. He wanted us to just record a stereo feed from his board, he would be mixing, turning mics on/off as needed etc. I told him that it is nothing personal I just would rather not rely on him, and the churches stuff for audio.

My company usually mics everything and then records to an 8-track ADAT for mixing in post. This guy from the church assured me that he has been doing this for a long time, and that everything would be fine. He does this every weekend. What do you know... the ceremony started and forgot to un mute the officiants mic. It took about 10 seconds for the mic to switch on, and it would've been longer if it weren't for my audio guy in the booth with him saying I don't have a signal!!

Luckily I had a camera about 10 feet away with a shotgun... so was able to cover with that... but it was noticeable in the video, especially when I was able to switch over to the house sound.

You can't ever trust anybody.

How does one Mic the bride if she is wearing a gown that won't allow a mic. The vows will be exchanged on a moat so cables are not a possibility, and we do have two wireless Senn's. If I just mic the groom, the sound will be too soft to pick up the bride. There may be a podium to place a wireless and turn up the sesitivity but I don't know the logistics of that. I'm stumped.

You (or a female partner) would need to approach her with a lot of tact, but one location that is used in a lot of film and TV productions is centered inside the bra between her breasts where her cleavage leaves a space, especially if her gown has a low neckline.

That just goes back to the saying if you want it done right do it yourself. ThHe people that work in churches, schools, etc. might be able to run the stuff fine, but they just don't have the experience. The problem is they think they're experts at what they do because they do it once a week/month or whatever. I wish they would just leave it to the pros...

That just goes back to the saying if you want it done right do it yourself. ThHe people that work in churches, schools, etc. might be able to run the stuff fine, but they just don't have the experience. The problem is they think they're experts at what they do because they do it once a week/month or whatever. I wish they would just leave it to the pros...


Very Much Agreed.

We bought XLR splitter boxes and if the church is running their own sound, we can usually arrange to split the mic signal just before it goes into their sound board, allowing us to record each mic seperately, without any concern of what the guy running the churches board might do.

We bought XLR splitter boxes and if the church is running their own sound, we can usually arrange to split the mic signal just before it goes into their sound board, allowing us to record each mic seperately, without any concern of what the guy running the churches board might do.

Good idea... I'll have to keep that in mind

We bought XLR splitter boxes and if the church is running their own sound, we can usually arrange to split the mic signal just before it goes into their sound board, allowing us to record each mic seperately, without any concern of what the guy running the churches board might do.

Well... from experience on the other side (yes... I'm the soundman that runs sound "each week" but I'm also the soundman that connected all of the wires in our current system), I wouldn't let a videographer mess with the inputs to my sound board. Many sound boards have a direct output per channel. With a quick test, I would allow connecting there.

Well... from experience on the other side (yes... I'm the soundman that runs sound "each week" but I'm also the soundman that connected all of the wires in our current system), I wouldn't let a videographer mess with the inputs to my sound board. Many sound boards have a direct output per channel. With a quick test, I would allow connecting there.

Usually, the soundmen that understand signal flow, understand something about running sound. When boards do have direct outs on each channel (especially pre-fader) it makes the job alot easier for everyone.

If I were you I wouldn't let a videographer mess with the I/O on my board either. For as many videographers who know what they are doing, there are 3x that many who don't.

If I plan on recording anything through the churches sound system I always contact the church and the soundman in advance. I talk things over with the tech (some aren't very technical/some are), usually find a manual for their board, analyze the best options, talk with them again, work something out, attend the rehearsal, and then arrive plenty early before the wedding to test thorougly. Their job is just as important as mine and I would never jeopardize that.

If I plan on recording anything through the churches sound system I always contact the church and the soundman in advance. I talk things over with the tech (some aren't very technical/some are), usually find a manual for their board, analyze the best options, talk with them again, work something out, attend the rehearsal, and then arrive plenty early before the wedding to test thorougly. Their job is just as important as mine and I would never jeopardize that.

That sounds like the best option - plan ahead of time. Right now we're in the process of building a new sanctuary. When it's done, we'll have signal running to the soundboard and an identical signal running to the "video room" (as well as a mix signal) so at some point in the future the video room can mix it's own audio. In our case, that would be an excellent place for people like you to get a signal - until we get a board there connected. If a board is already connected, you could actually run your own sound from that location.

Matt,
As a church soundman I would be delighted if someone called ahead of time and showed up with splitters. The last time someone wanted to patch into our board they showed up with a 6' RCA to stereo 1/8" cord. I have the equipment to hook them up but not 10 minutes before the wedding.

A note to Peter, your mics could not cause feedback unless they went through the PA. They might cause drop outs or splitting but not feedback.

Sam Gates