Hi,

I am considering buying a FS-4 Pro for my DVX-100B. I would appreciate any feedback or issues that you have encountered.

Thanks.

After using an FS-1 for several years with my XL-1, I recently moved into an FS-4. Overall, I'm pleased with it. It seems to work as advertised. My only complaints, so far, are minor "glitches" at the 2 Meg boundries during continuous recording-- the video is seamless, but the audio is not; there are noticeable breaks. Also, the FS-4 reverts back to Raw DV when turned-off after I've set it to Quicktime. On a positive note, I have no issues with the fan noise that has been discussed in earlier strings. I have also not experienced any problems with dropped frames, as some have reported.

i don't know that i would spend the extra $$ for the pro version... if you need longer recording time, get a bigger hdd.

the fs-4 has revolutionized the way that i shoot... bugs and all, i wish that i had this thing years ago.

I agree with Dan -- unless you have a specific need for the few added features, I think the FS-4 is sufficient and considerably less expensive. I've used the FS-1 for several years, and I get depressed anytime I have to actually capture footage from tape! My workflow has really been streamlined. The one advantage my old FS-1 has over the FS-4 is capacity -- I could put any size FW drive on it that I desired. With the FS-4, I just take my laptop computer along to dump files into if I need the space.

Thanks for the advice and feedback.

One follow-up question: Are the timecode/audio issues something to be concerned about or glitches that can be fixed?

They might never be an issue for you.....I do a lot of continuous recording at community theater events, and typically run continuously for a full tape at a time. With both my FS-1 and now the FS-4, if there happens to be dialog, music, etc. at the 2 GB break, I can hear it on the audio track once I pull it into Final Cut Pro --it appears like a 1-2 frame drop (audio only). I always use a tape backup, so when those occur, I just capture a few seconds from the tape and edit it into the timeline. The FS-1 has a user-programmable Audio Correction parameter that I adjusted to improve it, but I'm not aware of the FS-4 having that feature.

If you're not recording past the 2 GB boundry, it won't be an issue. If you do, it might, depending on what the action is at the break. As long as you have a backup tape (and you should), it can be fixed.

Hope this helps.

Thanks, Vic. Great points.

I am close to purchasing the FS-4. I researched mounting options on this board. Is there one you would recommend over the other?

I have no comment on the Pro version. I own the FS-4 and love it. Used it today on a hike. When I got home I just threw the files onto my computer and started editing. So nice not to haveto capture. My only complaint is the relatively short battery life. It was quite cool and windy out today and I think the cold affected the battery even more.

But overall it is really great


Chris

Ken--

Focus sells a mount for the FS-4 -- it seems a little pricey. I just rubber-banded mine onto the MA-1 mounting bracket (where you would normally attach a wireless transmitter). Not the best option, but it works. For stationary tripod work, I leave it off the camera.

With both my FS-1 and now the FS-4, if there happens to be dialog, music, etc. at the 2 GB break, I can hear it on the audio track once I pull it into Final Cut Pro --it appears like a 1-2 frame drop (audio only). I always use a tape backup, so when those occur, I just capture a few seconds from the tape and edit it into the timeline. The FS-1 has a user-programmable Audio Correction parameter that I adjusted to improve it, but I'm not aware of the FS-4 having that feature.

Hi Vic,

I don't think that this is supposed to happen. I haven't noticed this audio problem on my system. The fact that this audio drop-out problem is happening with both your FS-1 and FS-4 may indicate that it is being caused by something other than the FSs in your set-up. I can't think of what, though. Have you brought this problem to the attention of Focus? If so, what do they say?

Yeah, I exchanged several emails with Matt McEwen when he was still active on these boards. He suggested the audio parameter change on the FS-1 that helped some. It's not out of the realm of possibilities that it's something in Final Cut Pro, although it's been there through several iterations of FCP. It's strange that it only occurs on audio and not video. I'll have to mess around with it some more, but it's pretty easy to just edit-in a few seconds captured from tape. It also doesn't happen at every boundry -- only some of them. With the FS-1, I could expand the timeline and actually see approx. 2 frames of missing audio; it's not as obvious with the FS-4. Ah, the joys of troubleshooting electronics....

I played around with this a little more. By expanding the FCP timeline, I can see where I'm dropping the first frame of the incoming audio clip. The outgoing clip is fine, and the video maintains continuity on both the outgoing and incoming clips. This has been an issue with both my G3 & DP G4 machines, and FCP versions 3 through 4.5. There must be some parameter in FCP that could be affecting it, but so far I haven't found it. The puzzle continues.....

FS-4 is a truly breakthrough product. It combines the DTE technology with a very portable and pretty rugged form factor. There have been quite a few write ups on it:

FOCUS Enhancements’ FireStore FS-4 HD Named Among the Best of 2005 by EventDV Magazine http://www.eventdv.net/articles/readarticle.aspx?articleid=10817

Tapeless Capturing with FireStore FS-4 and Final Cut Pro http://www.bosfcpug.org/beta/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=32&Itemid=58

DV Mag FireStore FS-4 Review http://www.dv.com/reviews/reviews_item.jhtml?articleId=163105772

DMN: FireStore FS-4 http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=32371

Videoguys Top 10 Products of 2005 http://www.videoguys.com/2005best.htm

We've got some nice bundle deals called the field kit that include an FS-4, mounting bracket and extra battery http://www.videoguys.com/FireStore.html

Gary

I see there have been ample responses to your original post, but I felt I should add my two cents.

I loved this product when I first got it (about two and a half months ago), but I've since experienced some glitches. When it is working properly, I'm in heaven, but this one major problem has thrown a wrench in the machine. And that is, that the unit doesn't power up. The backlit LCD will light, but remains blank. At first, depressing the 'on' button again (up to several times) would resolve the issue, and the unit would continue to boot. But now, 2 1/2 months later, the unit will no longer boot, and hangs with the LCD lit up, but blank. Like I said, when it was working, I was completely in love with the FS-4, but until Focus contacts me about either repairing the unit or replacing it, I'm going to have to advise you to be a little bit cautious. I haven't heard too many positive reviews of the support from Focus Enhancements. They have already ignored one of my phone messages to technical support. I will folow up on this once I have contacted and spoken with a Focus Enhancements rep.

Thanks for reading a boring post,

Brian Fischer

Thanks Brian for your comments. It was rather helpful. I haven't purchased the FS-4 yet. I am hearing mixed reviews of their tech support.

Let me know if they ever get back to you.

I just got off of the phone with support, and I'm sending the unit to them for repairs... I'll follow up later.

Hi,

This is a helpful breakdown of using the FS-4 with a DVX. It lists the workflow issues as well as some solutions.

http://www.235studios.com/tutorials/235FS4Test.pdf

I still haven't purchased mine yet but I plan do so soon.

Ken

Just wanted to add my experiences with the FS-4. I have 2 of them and have a love hate relationship with them. For the price they are junk. Both of mine only boot properly when they feel like it. Sometimes turn off for no reason; I have had a backlight go out. Both fs-4's have been set in and fixed.

But if I had to do it all over again, I would buy them again. The idea of DTE is such a great idea, that it doesn't even matter that the hardware is sub par. I save so much time, and also the playback feature is a handy tool.

Plan on buying an external battery; I along with many other members got ours from batteryspace.com

Focus better watch out it another company comes along with a perfected design, but until then the firestore is the way to go.

have my fs-4 for about a year. once send in because of the fan noise, and the second time, it would not charge the larger abtt. they fixed that and also put a new fan in (the second time) no more fan noise at all, batt charge ok. great service, e-mail/ phone and service.
i struggle a little bit in using the fs-4 more often, i guess i am used to tapes.

greetings

I'm a noob, so forgive me for pondering...

The FS-4 is nothing more than a modified hard drive, but an expensive one at that, correct? Has anyone figured out a way to take a "normal" external firewire hard drive (ex. lacie 80GB external drive - $100 approx. cost) and capture video the same way?

Would there be a way to format and copy the lacie drive so it is exactly like the FS-4 (80GB) model, and would perform the same way?

If so, then please share, because I don't care if it doesn't look as cool as the FS-4, it would save me a ton of money. :o)

Tom,

The drive inside the Firestore is really a standard Hitachi laptop drive, not modified in any way. The components that set the whole thing off are the housing and the ROM chips containing the operating system that provide the functionality of the complete system. Coupled with the rechargeable battery and LCD display, this unit provides portability and flexibility. To my knowledge, there aren't very many external firewire drives out there that are powered by a rechargeable battery and have an LCD display. You would still need an interface for the starting and stopping of recording, formatting, etc. Normaly you would need a PC to perform these functions, but the Firestore handles all of these tasks and more, all by its lonesome.

Thanks Brian. From what I read (since I don't own one), it will recording is automatically synched when the start/stop button is pressed on the camera. Again, if the 80GB lacie drive were formatted exactly the same as the FS-4 (duplicate hard drive), then the only other problem I see is choosing which format it saves the video as. I would imagine there is a defaulted format?

It's just an idea, and I was curious as to whether or not anyone has experimented with it previously. :o)

Tom,
It's not the way the hard drive is formatted as Brian pointed out; the FS-4 uses a typical laptop hard drive. What makes the FS-4 so expensive is when the stream of video is coming into the hard drive an interface has to decide what to do with it. The FS-4 basically acts as a mini computer and it decides what to do with the stream of video. Like converting the video, giving file names, making folders etc. The intelligence that saves the video onto the hard drive makes the FS-4 expensive. Not the format of the hard drive

The FS4 is a great tool appart from the batteries they cannot be removed unless I carry a small screwdriver to release them, it's a poor design that spoils a very good tool.

Phil,

I would recommend not removing the battery pack at all, and opt for this solution, with thanks to Jon East and Todd Kivimaki.

http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1261

The water bottle is kinda tacky, but this will power the unit. For more information, visit http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=43420

Hope that helps.

Brian, any resolve about what you wrote of the unit not powering up? I posted the same problem on a new thread, and then came across your posting on this thread. I got to use it for a whole 5 minutes, and that was the end of it, having the same exact problem as you stated!!! Has never powerd totally back up at all, just the blue screen, and the cooling fan continiously running LOUDLY!!! Is it worth getting a replacement, or is it hopeless and i should get my hard earned $$$$ back?

I see there have been ample responses to your original post, but I felt I should add my two cents.

I loved this product when I first got it (about two and a half months ago), but I've since experienced some glitches. When it is working properly, I'm in heaven, but this one major problem has thrown a wrench in the machine. And that is, that the unit doesn't power up. The backlit LCD will light, but remains blank. At first, depressing the 'on' button again (up to several times) would resolve the issue, and the unit would continue to boot. But now, 2 1/2 months later, the unit will no longer boot, and hangs with the LCD lit up, but blank. Like I said, when it was working, I was completely in love with the FS-4, but until Focus contacts me about either repairing the unit or replacing it, I'm going to have to advise you to be a little bit cautious. I haven't heard too many positive reviews of the support from Focus Enhancements. They have already ignored one of my phone messages to technical support. I will folow up on this once I have contacted and spoken with a Focus Enhancements rep.

Thanks for reading a boring post,

Brian Fischer

Joseph--

I've had good results with the FS-4. Sounds like you got a bad one. Tech support will fix you up. Most of the units work fine -- you typically only hear from those that have had a problem.

Joseph--

I've had good results with the FS-4. Sounds like you got a bad one. Tech support will fix you up. Most of the units work fine -- you typically only hear from those that have had a problem.

I'm supposed to be getting another one sent to me hopefully soon. But another thing that happened on the faulty unit as I was going to take a another look at it was one of the connectors on the unit where the battery goes, just fell off. And that could have been the result of how difficult the battery is to take off. Not the easiest things to change out, that's for sure. So that kind of makes me paranoid of that possibly happening on the replacement unit! But I guess we'll see.

I just got my Focus FS-4 PRO HD from Tapeworks Texas, since they promise me to send it out free of charge if I purchase the Canon Xl H1 from them, so I just got it, and I'm trying to connect to my XL H1, cant make it work, do you guys know, what I'm doing wrong? is there anything I need to change in camcorder setting, to record instead of tape on DTE?

Hi Nerses,

Make sure your FS-4Pro HD is set to HD Recorder mode. Also make sure that DV Control is turned ON on the camera. Connect a FireWire cable between the camera and the DV I/O port on your FS-4Pro HD. This should work fine.

Hope that helps,

Matt McEwen

Sad to have to chime in with a negative response as my first posting but here it is nonetheless. I have reported my fs-4 drives to focus enhancements tech support prior to posting here. I'll let you know how that works out.

My company purchased two FS-4's about four or five weeks ago. We also purchased the extended runtime batteries and field kits. As stated by other authors, it just doesn't make sense to build a unit that can capture for three hours continuous and a battery that will only run an hour and a half! The units arrived, seemed to be built well, albeit not like the proverbial "tank" but good build nonetheless. We were immensely excited over the concept of going tapeless, as we shoot tons of footage and are paying out a small fortune for tape.

We received the drives, read the manual, installed the cables to the cameras, powered the drives up, set the preferences and shot a few times including a couple projects.

Drive1 transferred files effortlessly at first. Transferred over 90 mins of footage in about 8-9 mins! Then upon stopping service from computer, then stopping service on the drive and stopping service from that screen, we re-connected the drive to the computer, the fs-4 drive operating system crashed and has never came back up. It does the same operation that several users have reported. The lcd lights up and acts like it's loading up but never reaches that point where any text shows and the drive goes into an endless loop of powering up then down until you have to remove the battery to get it to stop. I tried the system restore as instructed from this forum but it was not successful.

Drive2, did a little worse. Powered up, worked fine. Shot one project on it then upon hooking it up via firewire to computer, we smelled plastic burning inside the drive casing. The computer never was able to access the drive via firewire. Files are actually still on the drive. Subsequent testing showed the computer firewire card to be fully operational when we connected a consumer camera to it by firewire and the camera worked perfectly. The drive actually did connect when we first received it but after shooting a project, it would not connect at all when we tried connecting it again.

Needless to say we WERE extremely excited about going tapeless and using the firestore drives (and even purchasing more drives). Now we're not so sure. I wouldn't say they are crap but it's hard to be positive when you lay down 1500 bucks for two drives that become useless only after the second useage of them. The concept is a brilliant one but the execution leaves quite a bit to desire. I would recommend to Focus Enhancements to work on these challenges quickly before another company comes along and executes the same idea, only better! Anyone remember K-Mart?

I'll let you know how the support system fares in a few days.

-V-

Vincent,

Would love to hear what results you get after all the problems you've had with the FS4. I returned mine some time ago, and are experiencing back-order problems with receiving a replacement. Brian at Zotz has been working on it for me in getting me another unit, but I've been getting frustrated, and I'm in fear of upon receiving a new unit, that'll I'll have problems again. You can see my earlier posts her pertaining to my problem with the unit. Got to use if for a whole five minutes. Didn;t even get as far as being able to hook it up to my G4. B4 I packed the faulty unit back up to ship out, I was trying the unit one more time, and then one of the battery connectors on the unit broke off. i think it happened due to the dam battery is so hard to take off. This has got to be one of the worst designed units I've ever experienced. I think they definetly need to go back to the drawing board as far as I'm concerned.

Joe

Vincent,

Would love to hear what results you get after all the problems you've had with the FS4. I returned mine some time ago, and are experiencing back-order problems with receiving a replacement. Brian at Zotz has been working on it for me in getting me another unit, but I've been getting frustrated, and I'm in fear of upon receiving a new unit, that'll I'll have problems again. You can see my earlier posts her pertaining to my problem with the unit. Got to use if for a whole five minutes. Didn;t even get as far as being able to hook it up to my G4. B4 I packed the faulty unit back up to ship out, I was trying the unit one more time, and then one of the battery connectors on the unit broke off. i think it happened due to the dam battery is so hard to take off. This has got to be one of the worst designed units I've ever experienced. I think they definetly need to go back to the drawing board as far as I'm concerned.

Joe


I'm in complete agreement with you Joe. I also talked with Brian at Zotz concerning purchasing new cameras and got around to discussing the FS-4's. I won't get into that discussion as previous posts have pretty much ran the gamut of the Firestore problems. Needless to say, Brian has heard much of that from customers.
I CAN say that I have had a positive experience with my warranty claim. Phil with Focus Enhancements (F.E.) instructed me by phone where and how to send my drives in for warranty repair and that it would take four weeks to get them back. I received the drives last week after a four week period. They both function properly now as far as the operating system and primary hardware is concerned but still do not connect with my computer's firewire interface (out of three computers). I am going to bring them home and check with my personal computer. Phil at F.E. (my contact person) has been very good at keeping me updated on the progress of my repair, best that he could. Every time I emailed an enquiry he checked the status and replied promptly. So, I would have to say the warranty repair was a positive experience albeit not an outstanding one. Waiting on drives for four weeks was NOT a positive experience :) If we had solely relied on those drives, we would have been out of business for four weeks and that is totally unacceptable.
Brian has mentioned an alternative to the FS drives. I will be checking into those very soon. It's really a shame for F.E. as we would have purchased many of the drives in the near future if the units had performed reliably. We will not be purchasing any more of them at this point. Maybe if their build issues get resolved and they become MUCH more stable then we'll try them again once they "get it together".

-V-

Vincent, I'm interested in hearing more about what Brian might be suggesting for an alternative. He didn't mention to me two days ago about possible alternative(s), in case I don;t get a chance to contact him for a bit, can you share what Brian might have in mind whe you get more on that? Would be much appreciated. Brian has certainly expressed to me about his concernes with the FS4 lately. Including all the shipping costs back and forth of just trying to get a good unit. I am definetly ready for suggestions, and I hadn't even had a chance to actually really test drive a unit yet other than my short lived moment!!!

Joe





I'm in complete agreement with you Joe. I also talked with Brian at Zotz concerning purchasing new cameras and got around to discussing the FS-4's. I won't get into that discussion as previous posts have pretty much ran the gamut of the Firestore problems. Needless to say, Brian has heard much of that from customers.
I CAN say that I have had a positive experience with my warranty claim. Phil with Focus Enhancements (F.E.) instructed me by phone where and how to send my drives in for warranty repair and that it would take four weeks to get them back. I received the drives last week after a four week period. They both function properly now as far as the operating system and primary hardware is concerned but still do not connect with my computer's firewire interface (out of three computers). I am going to bring them home and check with my personal computer. Phil at F.E. (my contact person) has been very good at keeping me updated on the progress of my repair, best that he could. Every time I emailed an enquiry he checked the status and replied promptly. So, I would have to say the warranty repair was a positive experience albeit not an outstanding one. Waiting on drives for four weeks was NOT a positive experience :) If we had solely relied on those drives, we would have been out of business for four weeks and that is totally unacceptable.
Brian has mentioned an alternative to the FS drives. I will be checking into those very soon. It's really a shame for F.E. as we would have purchased many of the drives in the near future if the units had performed reliably. We will not be purchasing any more of them at this point. Maybe if their build issues get resolved and they become MUCH more stable then we'll try them again once they "get it together".

-V-

Vincent, I'm interested in hearing more about what Brian might be suggesting for an alternative. He didn't mention to me two days ago about possible alternative(s), in case I don;t get a chance to contact him for a bit, can you share what Brian might have in mind whe you get more on that? Would be much appreciated. Brian has certainly expressed to me about his concernes with the FS4 lately. Including all the shipping costs back and forth of just trying to get a good unit. I am definetly ready for suggestions, and I hadn't even had a chance to actually really test drive a unit yet other than my short lived moment!!!

Joe


Yep, it's a shame there aren't more players in this technology as it's not really a huge technical challenge design wise. In my opinion, it's a hardware problem as far as designing a unit that's dependable. Basically the whole thing is just a notebook hard disk in a case with it's own operating system and firewire interface. Heck, Dell is selling complete desktop computers with monitor for less than these things! Granted the desktop doesn't have the portability, but obviously most are performing longer than the FS drives! hehe
Just think, if you suggested someone buy a laptop for 750bucks with a GPL operating system such as Linux, a firewire port, 1-80gb 5400rpm hard disk and a 2inch monitor and battery that runs for an hour and a half for 750 bucks, they would call you an idiot but buy one of the these FS-4 drives and they call you...well, nevermind.

Bryan suggested looking at the Nnovia Quick Capture dte drives. I checked the info out at B&H's website (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=329220&is=REG&addedTroughType=search). The build looks a little better but haven't been able to find anyone that's used it yet so I can't make any comments on dependability. Seems about double the price than the FS-4. If the drives are better than the FS-4's then it is a good investment to me. I'm trying to find anyone that has used them to see what their experience has been so far. I'll let you know what I find.

-V-

Would appreciate it. I quickly gave Brian a call, he was too busy to really take the time to talk, so i didn't push it, but he did say briefly that he's really not sure about reliability for anything else at the moment. So, at the moment, i'm still awaiting a replacememt FS4. I guess we'll see. But, please definetly keep me and others posted on what you might uncover.

Joe


Yep, it's a shame there aren't more players in this technology as it's not really a huge technical challenge design wise. In my opinion, it's a hardware problem as far as designing a unit that's dependable. Basically the whole thing is just a notebook hard disk in a case with it's own operating system and firewire interface. Heck, Dell is selling complete desktop computers with monitor for less than these things! Granted the desktop doesn't have the portability, but obviously most are performing longer than the FS drives! hehe
Just think, if you suggested someone buy a laptop for 750bucks with a GPL operating system such as Linux, a firewire port, 1-80gb 5400rpm hard disk and a 2inch monitor and battery that runs for an hour and a half for 750 bucks, they would call you an idiot but buy one of the these FS-4 drives and they call you...well, nevermind.

Bryan suggested looking at the Nnovia Quick Capture dte drives. I checked the info out at B&H's website (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=329220&is=REG&addedTroughType=search). The build looks a little better but haven't been able to find anyone that's used it yet so I can't make any comments on dependability. Seems about double the price than the FS-4. If the drives are better than the FS-4's then it is a good investment to me. I'm trying to find anyone that has used them to see what their experience has been so far. I'll let you know what I find.

-V-

Vincent,

have you stumbled across this thread and review? http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=25843

Joe

Vincent,

have you stumbled across this thread and review? http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=25843

Joe


No I didn't but the review at http://www.digitalproducer.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=25508 is a pretty thorough one. Check out the Nnovia website video demo:
http://www.nnovia.com/demo.html

I'm more interested in real world usage and review from actual users though.

-V-