I did a making-of documentary shoot in an Atlanta photo studio for 2 art photographers. The shoot included 12 interviews and a lot of doc-style shooting. This was a 9 hour day using the JVC HD-100 we bought this week from BH in NY.

The lighting ranged from using my 2 Lowell Softlights with Rosco diffusion for the interviews, to using just the style photo backlights and fill lights provided by the photographers. I used my 1500 and 750 watt lights when they were not shooting stills. When they shot stills, my light kit had to be switched off for fear of ruining their heavy shadow style of still photo work in mainly BW medium format. (They are art photographers out of London.)

I set up the camera for Dashwood's cine wide latitude settings and reduced the detail setting to min, the lowest possible. I wanted to get away from the video look even though we had to record to DV 60i format. No HDV recording because these tapes had to match all the other DV tapes shot in Austrlia, Mexico, Colorado and NY.

I used the 3 factory JVC batteries I had, which only run 40 mins each for the doc style b-roll. The only filter was a Tiffen 82mm UV Haze-1 filter. I used the JVC ac adapter for all the interviews with Elton John, Terrell Owens, and all the models.

The Good: The 7 pound camera is very comfortable for shooting off the hip, on shoulder or held inches off the ground by the handle.

The manual audio levels were a life-saver when my inexperienced interviewer held the mike too far from people's faces.

I set the viewfinder for maximum information including audio levels, f-stop and battery voltage. Very reassuring to have all the info on a day with so many interviews were all done in a rush.

The switch lay-out, with all controls on the camera body, allowed me to reach the right controls by feel while still keeping my eye in the viewfinder. I had assigned bars and tone to the user1 button so no more digging through countless menus to get what I need, RIGHT NOW.

The focus assist was a life saver and only seems to work well with the viewfinder. I like the way the viewfinder goes to Black and White for focus assist.

The Bad:
I don't like the +3 gain setting, which I was forced to use for 5-6 shots of the still photographers when I was forced to turn off my Lowell lights. But I hate plus-gain noise any way. Low-light is a problem.

The Zebra bars on-off switch got accidentally shut off when I balanced the camera on my hip for handheld. This should get easier to remember not to do as i gain more hours on the camera. Maybe it shouldn't be on the front of the camera below the lens?

The JVC batteries are woefully inadequate at only 40 minutes each. I barely eaked out enough time for handheld work with 3 batteries. This only worked because I used the AC adapter for all 12 on-tripod interviews. Even so, I had to switch back to AC adapter for the last 30 minutes of b-roll shooting, because the final battery died.

I hate the LCD for focusing as it's worthless. Only good for reviewing footage.

I like this camera but I can't wait for the IDX battery. I just mailed off the coupon today. Got to get a field monitor.

Ed

Thanks for the report!

John

The +3 will not be nearly as noisy as you think Ed. Wait till you get it in post and then re-assess the +3 db and even the +6. Since you're very new to the camera you may not have even touched the black levels as well as stretch and compress. The "gamma" setting inside the menu's will give you much more sensitivity without ever going into gain. Use that coupled with black level and the stretch/compress and then you may see the light (literally). What scene file did you use or did you go with the default 30p-live setting?

The battery scenrio with the 428 or 438 battery is weak. The good news is the IDX solution last between 4 to 5 hours and as a benefit, balanced the camera.

True,
+3 gain should be virtually no noise.

How did you evaluate this?
Was it while you were recording, or playing back and watching
from an external HD monitor?

I could be wrong about the +3 noise. I only base this on my impression through the viewfinder. I handed them the tapes and didn't get to review on a real monitor.

Ed

I could be wrong about the +3 noise. I only base this on my impression through the viewfinder. I handed them the tapes and didn't get to review on a real monitor.

Ed
Very common Ed. If the peaking pot is turned up at all, everything looks noisy but it's not. Check the footage in post.

I'll chime also that in order to make accurate judgments, you have to review material on a proper monitor. That means a reasonably accurate HD monitor for HDV work (NTSC doesn't cut it), and a PVM (or equivalent) monitor for SD work.

That was a great write up Ed. One of the best I've ever seen.

One question. Do you think you would find it preferable to have to go through a menu for zebra function, to having the button where it is?

The Zebra bars on-off switch got accidentally shut off when I balanced the camera on my hip for handheld. This should get easier to remember not to do as i gain more hours on the camera. Maybe it shouldn't be on the front of the camera below the lens?
It must have been a fluke that the bars got switched off. With experience you'll also see it right away 'missing' in the VF. The placement of the zebra/skin tone switch is little unusual but since it's a hard switch at a place where there is nothing else to deal with it won't be a problem for most people.

What I do find a tad dangerous is the placement of the shutter speed control on the menu wheel. If the camera is in its default setting, it's unlikely to accidentally change the shutter speed. However, if the default is changed (i.e. DV24p when it needs to go to 1/48) it could get bumped easily. Particularly when one is wearing gloves. In some way, I wish the two were reversed, since turning zebra on and off doesn't affect the picture while accidental change of the shutter speed does. I think I'll post it as a wish on the wish(ful) sticky.

Yes, the wheel changing shutter speed is horrible. Way to easy to trigger this by accident.

I guess I shouldn't complain about the zebra bars switch. I looked at it today and realized it is actually recessed pretty well. It's more a function of me accidentally bumping the switch, and then being to rushed to worry about it.

In terms of usability and good image quality I really like the HD 100.

Ed

Did the split screen happen to rear it's ugly little head on your shoot?

Just wondering if it's still an issue.

I bought my camera around three weeks ago and have never seen SSE.
Yes, I have used it in very low light conditions.

I hardly ever use gain and would never go over +6dB.

The SSE appears NO longer and issue. firmware, factory tweak, I don't know?


Has any other recent buyers over the last month or two seen SSE?

Steve

Has any other recent buyers over the last month or two seen SSE?
The deal is that SSE can be INVOKED. High gain and certain lighting circumstances. As a rule it's not an issue in a day-to-day shooting.

I've had my camera 6 weeks now.

Yes, perhaps at maximum gain against flat solid surfaces the camera might show some traits (SSE) of JVC's dual processor approach to handeling the huge task of full 720p processing but if you are shooting footage like this you probably shouldn't have shot it in the first place.

Use light, understand how to stretch the gamma for lower light situations and light your material.

I bought my camera around three weeks ago and have never seen SSE.
Yes, I have used it in very low light conditions.

I hardly ever use gain and would never go over +6dB.

The SSE appears NO longer and issue. firmware, factory tweak, I don't know?


Have any other recent buyers over the last month or two seen SSE?

Steve

I have viewed the the +3 gain footage on a monitor and I'm happy to say, there is no noise.

Plus on the darkest footage, there is no sign of SSE (split screen effect) at any point.

Maybe JVC has this fixed in later cameras, our camera arrived Feb 21.

Ed

I have viewed the the +3 gain footage on a monitor and I'm happy to say, there is no noise.

Plus on the darkest footage, there is no sign of SSE (split screen effect) at any point.

Maybe JVC has this fixed in later cameras, our camera arrived Feb 21.

Ed
Hi Ed,

I've found that +6 db gain still gives solid pictures in very dark scenario. I hope you find the same results. Also. manipulating the camera menu settings you'll find you have tremendous capability to tailor your color gamut. The zebra switch you talked about also acts as the skin area detection as well. It's a three way switch that has zebra/skin area/off functions. Inside the menu's you have control over knee and white clip settings. I've found that the iris control reacts correctly to these settings. When you compose your shot you can use the auto iris or and it will get your levels pretty much spot on the graph to what you have in your settings for white clip. The camera handles the black setup via the menu (0 or 7.5). If you set the Whiteclip to 100% and the setup to 7.5 you should be broadcast safe on you waveform.

I bought my camera around three weeks ago and have never seen SSE.
Yes, I have used it in very low light conditions.

I hardly ever use gain and would never go over +6dB.

The SSE appears NO longer and issue. firmware, factory tweak, I don't know?


Have any other recent buyers over the last month or two seen SSE?

Steve

Our HD100 is less than a month old.

I don't think there's going to be a time with this particualr camera design to pronounce an end to the possibiltiy of SSE. JVC has clearly stated that the dual processing solution to true 24p has some limitations and needs to be worked with with that in mind. Given the unique quality/price factor I think it's underestandable but...

The other day coming back from a great day we happened on a man in the middle of a frozen pond flying an intensely colored parafoil. We got out and shot this scene with the blue sky and snowy mountains in the background.

Back in the studio on the HD monitor there it was...in every second of every shot, split screen.

Regarding Tim Holtermann's comment about "you shouldn't have been shooting in the first place" this was at 0 gain, perfect (albeit cold) conditions.
Clearly the camera can still have problems in normal, acceptable, situations.

This has caused some concern on this end for an upcoming shoot that will take place with some of the retuning Olympic athletes.

A good deal of it will be shot on mountain under similar circumstnces and some of the scenes won't have the benefit of a video village because of the remote aspect.

So far I love the camera, but 2 days of filming under these conditions is giving me pause.

Jim

We experienced the same SSE issue with our first camera, even in perfect lighting conditions, and we rarely to never gain up. Worth noting, JVC has worked with us in finding a solution that was acceptable to us, they have been very supportive regarding this issue and stood behind the product. The second JVC camera that we used for our most recent shoot was perfect, in all lighting conditions. In fact it was like shooting with a entirely different camera, the results IMO where stunning. This was no low budget shoot and trusting such a new camera was a large gamble for us. In turn it has paid for itself many times over with great results.

Perhaps you should have the camera better adjusted by JVC service. I heard that they have changed the adjustment specifications since first release.

Back in the studio on the HD monitor there it was...in every second of every shot, split screen.

Regarding Tim Holtermann's comment about "you shouldn't have been shooting in the first place" this was at 0 gain, perfect (albeit cold) conditions.
Clearly the camera can still have problems in normal, acceptable, situations.


If you are getting SSE in situations like this then send the camera back or have JVC adjust it.

Ben

Jim

We experienced the same SSE issue with our first camera, even in perfect lighting conditions, and we rarely to never gain up. Worth noting, JVC has worked with us in finding a solution that was acceptable to us, they have been very supportive regarding this issue and stood behind the product. The second JVC camera that we used for our most recent shoot was perfect, in all lighting conditions. In fact it was like shooting with a entirely different camera, the results IMO where stunning. This was no low budget shoot and trusting such a new camera was a large gamble for us. In turn it has paid for itself many times over with great results.

Perhaps you should have the camera better adjusted by JVC service. I heard that they have changed the adjustment specifications since first release.

But this is hardly a first release model...it should be from the newest stock as it was just pruchased in the past month. I made a similar point when making the decision on the JVC regarding the scope of the projects it would be immediately used for (not that everyone's projets aren't important regardless of budget).

I just wanted to answer the specific question as to whether anyone with a recent model HD100 had experienced SSE. We have one and we got it.

Now we did some beautiful nightime, snow falling, shots in the Olympic village for an upcoming film, where we actually bumped the gain up to +3...even +6 to compare.
There was no SSE in any of several full night, natural light setups.

If you are getting SSE in situations like this then send the camera back or have JVC adjust it.

Ben


Well that's a simple and obvious statement. But first, we know that you can't send the HD100 back because of SSE because it is not considered a technical fault by JVC.

That leaves only the second option. In my experience returns for repairs don't happen as quickly as our schedule demands right now. As a producer about to get a second HD100 for our company, this was disappointing. Fortunately what happened was with an interesting shot we grabbed on the fly simply because it was visually wonderful.
Had it occured in the shoot we were just returning from it would have cost me a lot more than the cost of the camera.

As I mentioned, we had tested this camera under studio and challenging real life...even very low light conditions and it was fine. But to keep things accurate for people interested in these issues from a decision making standpoint, I answered the question factually. This is a recently purchased HD100 and in fact it can display SSE. More importantly it did so in full daylight and at 0 gain.
It seems to me that this camera may have the "potential" for problems in similar situations to the Mini 35 system with rotating glass. Even with the fastest cine primes, (Zeiss Super Speeds) when shooting against solid translucent and opaque backgrounds like subjects against skies or open fields, you could see the spinning center. We all knew we had to work around this potential issue.

I have read, can't recall which thread, that at least someone else experienced a similar issue and made the same point as I am...that this is not just a low light/high gain issue. It isn't and it would be best for users and potential users to be aware of this before experiencing it in a critical situation.

This is a recently purchased HD100 and in fact it can display SSE. More importantly it did so in full daylight and at 0 gain.
Even though it is recently purchased it still may have been from older stock. Michael Pappas reported his (which was purchased last week from B and H) was from older stock. These older cams may not be fully up to spec. It definately would be worth your while to get it checked and at least give the serial number to JVC. Michael reported he contacted JVC and Ken Freed was helping him out in getting his camera to spec and adjusted. It may put a small kink in your operation to get it adjusted but it would be well worth it and getting to know JVC on a service level would be nothing but a plus.

good luck...

I was under the impression that JVC had pretty much resolved the SSE issue, but apparently it's still causing a few serious problems on occasion.

Is there a significant need for a methodology to clean up SSE effects in post?

Even though it is recently purchased it still may have been from older stock. Michael Pappas reported his (which was purchased last week from B and H) was from older stock. These older cams may not be fully up to spec. It definately would be worth your while to get it checked and at least give the serial number to JVC. Michael reported he contacted JVC and Ken Freed was helping him out in getting his camera to spec and adjusted. It may put a small kink in your operation to get it adjusted but it would be well worth it and getting to know JVC on a service level would be nothing but a plus.

good luck...


Thanks for the info Stephen. I'll try see if I can contact Ken Freed then. It will still make this week a bit hairy I'm afraid.

Thanks for the info Stephen. I'll try see if I can contact Ken Freed then. It will still make this week a bit hairy I'm afraid.
Ken Freed is in LA so you would not contact him. In your area you'd contact the man at the top of this list:Click here (http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/dealerlookup.jsp?code=D&feature_id=00&itempath=&tree=&model_id=MDL101539&zipcode=05032) for guidance.

good luck Jim.

Jim,

Not that a newer firmware version has anything to do with SSE, but it might give an idea on the age of the camera.
Do you know your firmware version?

I'm not sure the details on how JVC is tackling the past SSE issue.
All I know is I bought a new camera about three weeks ago and have yet to ever see SSE ('knock on wood").

Steve

Jim,

Not that a newer firmware version has anything to do with SSE, but it might give an idea on the age of the camera.
Do you know your firmware version?

I'm not sure the details on how JVC is tackling the past SSE issue.
All I know is I bought a new camera about three weeks ago and have yet to ever see SSE ('knock on wood").

Steve


Well after a good deal of testing and shooting neither had we and I was pretty vocal about that around here, which is why I felt it important to be frank in response to the original question.

Out of curiousity...what's you S/N? At least the first few digits. I just want to gage the age of my camera and the other cameras in general. Especially the ones that don't have any signs of SSE and have been purchased more recently. Mine was delivered around Christmas but might have been sitting in the dealer's storage for a while.

The S/N of my camera is: 15031654

Quick update for anyone intersted. SSE issue in discussion with JVC. I'll tell you about the resolution, hopefully in a day or so.

Quick update for anyone intersted. SSE issue in discussion with JVC. I'll tell you about the resolution, hopefully in a day or so.
Please, do so. My SSE is marginal, sometimes it shows up just so I can barely see it on the camera LCD (of course at 0dB) but I wonder how much it will show on an HD screen. I am reluctant to send the camera back yet and if there is any new development, I'd like to know. My camera is fairly new (details here: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?p=439431#post439431).

Please, do so. My SSE is marginal, sometimes it shows up just so I can barely see it on the camera LCD (of course at 0dB) but I wonder how much it will show on an HD screen. I am reluctant to send the camera back yet and if there is any new development, I'd like to know. My camera is fairly new (details here: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?p=439431#post439431).


Will do Jiri.
The people at JVC have been very helpful so far and I'm expecting a quick resolution to this based on our conversations today.
As I've said before, we did some very rigorous testing on our own soundstage and before we ever used it.
In fact, I set it up on set after shooting a commercial on film and had the talent stay for a second quick version with the HD100 for comparisons.
Then we shot for two days of various tests before heading out for the first serious broadcast work.
As I said...even at night under natural lighting in the Olympic village we got no SSE.
What concerned me was that we did get it a week later in full daylight and it was dramatic over 5 or 6 scenes.
So that's why I'm just dealing with it...because it just occured for the first time.
I think that's worth other people being aware of.
A lot better than blowing an irreplaceable shoot and finding out when you get back to the studio and the talent has all flown back to NYC.