Hi, all --

24p is here to stay, and there are a lot of conflicting ideas out there about capturing and editing 24p, even in Vegas.

Here's a tutorial explaining the basics and cutting through some of the misconceptions and myths.

www.david-jimerson.com/Vegas24pBasics.zip

It's an 18MB .zip file, so right-click and download.

Hope it's helpful. It assumes a basic knowledge of capture, etc., but it directly addresses issues concerning 24p.

Hey, thanks for the effort!!

Very good primer - thanks for that.

How about one more chapter about bringing 24p in and burning in DVDA? Info on what happens to 24p in the set-top player and tv?

Regardless, an very helpful piece as it is.

David,

Thanks for confirming what I'd already discovered: If you will just get out of the way and not interfere, Vegas will treat 24p appropriately.

I've also found that if you right click a clip you know is 24p and select "Open with..." and pick Vegas, the Project Properties will be set to 24p. Vegas has really tried hard to idiot proof the production process.

I appreciate the tutorial. Chris, this is exactly the kind of stuff you and the Wranglers should be proud of in hosting this forum. Guys like David going out of their way to educate us with no other reward than educating the community. Chris, I think David's DVinfo dues should be free for the rest of 2006!

Wow, I appreciate the endorsement!

It's a set of questions which comes up a lot, and it's easier to post a link than it is to type the same thing again and again -- and it's more fun this way, anyway . . .

The video was great, very informative and well done. Thanks for taking so much time to share your knowledge.

Paul Cascio
Bristol, CT

Alright, I gotta ask. How do you get a unique call-sign with 57 post in the forum?

What, I don't deserve one? :)

Congratulations David - a great tutorial.

I have never worked with 24p before, but I feel like trying now, largely because Vegas, along with your tute, makes it so easy - what differences would apply in PAL land?

Thanks, Peter -- I appreciate it.

In PAL land, you've REALLY got no worries, because PAL cameras like the DVX100AE don't use 24p; they use 25p. That can be edited on a standard PAL timeline. If you want, you can switch the project to progressive, but it's not necessary to edit. So, no pulldown at ALL to worry about 'round your way.

Standard procedure if you want to go to 24fps film out from 25p is slow it by 4%.

actually for PAL 25p source output to 24p, u dont have to do ANYTHING..

just create a 24p project, and import your files, Vegas will do the rest... i do alot of this kind of conversions for Corp clients i have in the US and Japan the only real pain is the drop in resolution..

I'll actually be shooting with a Z1, so it sounds like I should just shoot normally in 50i.

actually for PAL 25p source output to 24p, u dont have to do ANYTHING..

just create a 24p project, and import your files, Vegas will do the rest... i do alot of this kind of conversions for Corp clients i have in the US and Japan the only real pain is the drop in resolution..

You can ALWAYS drop anything into any timeline in Vegas and Vegas will take care of it for you, but I assumed from the question that the intention was to keep it in PAL. The 24p timelines in Vegas are NTSC in everything but framerate.

The difference between 24p and 25p in terms of cadence and feel is negligible. The only reason to output as 24p would be to go to 24fps film.

Or, of course, if you're planning to distribute in NTSC land.

I'll actually be shooting with a Z1, so it sounds like I should just shoot normally in 50i.

Well, the Z1 doesn't shoot in any progressive mode, but the CF25 mode is said to be a pretty darn good approximation of 25p. Give it a shot -- Vegas has got you covered.

Great tutorial! I will look out for more of these in the future.

Dave thanks for the contribution.

What about converting your 60i footage to 24p in post. I recently completed a piece where the talking heads didn't quite match the rest of the (slow motion) footage. I'm assuming because the interpolation that occurs when you slow clips down cause it to take ona slightly less polished look. Anytime it would cut to a talking head (w/o slo motion) it stood out like a sore thumb.

I've been experimenting with converting the piece to 24p which does seem to make the talking heads portion match the rest of the piece. I don't however know if I'm using the correct/best way of converting 60i to 24p.
- I ediit all my 60i footage in a 60i timeline
- Then I simply use a 24p (2-3 pulldown) template when rendering out to MPG2

Is this correct or do I have to change the project and/or individual event settings to a 24p preset as well.

Also what about a workflow that requires you to render various portions out to DV-AVI first, then assembling the DV-AVI pieces in a complete timeline before going out to MPG2. In this case should the first render (DV-AVI) be rendered to 24p (inserting 2-3) be used. Or should standard 60i DV-AVI be selected...and only 24p setting on output on the second render to MPG2.

Thanks in advance.

Glen, I think it is a best practice to edit your 60i footage in a 24p timeline in Vegas 6 if you will then render that to a 24p DVDA template to make a 24p DVD.

The reason you want to edit in a 24p timeline is that your transitions, etc will be 24p instead of 60i converted to 24p.

Well . . .

The method which works for you best is the best method to use, but IN GENERAL, if you're planning 24p output, it's best to do all your editing, effects, etc., in 24p.

Caveats:

Converting 60i footage to 24p will lose the 60i aesthetic, and there could be reasons why you'd want to keep it.

Converting 60i footage to 24p loses up to half the vertical resolution, as you saw -- and correctly surmised that "interpolate fields" is more of a resolution-sucker than "blend fields." However, interpolation is better for footage with a lot of movement.

Well . . .

The method which works for you best is the best method to use, but IN GENERAL, if you're planning 24p output, it's best to do all your editing, effects, etc., in 24p.

Caveats:

Converting 60i footage to 24p will lose the 60i aesthetic, and there could be reasons why you'd want to keep it.

Converting 60i footage to 24p loses up to half the vertical resolution, as you saw -- and correctly surmised that "interpolate fields" is more of a resolution-sucker than "blend fields." However, interpolation is better for footage with a lot of movement.

Where do you set "blend fields" or "interpolate fields"?

Also when you say "loses the 60i aesthetic" do you mean the inherent sharpness of 60i? TIA

no good deed goes unpunished. In the same thread where I gave a big compliment I get shot down for trying to be helpful. I will remember that.

Where do you set "blend fields" or "interpolate fields"?

In the project settings under "deinterlace method."

Also when you say "loses the 60i aesthetic" do you mean the inherent sharpness of 60i? TIA

I mean it will no longer look like video; it will look like 24p (minus the resolution, of course). Most of the time, for my money, that's good -- but there could be reasons to keep the video look.

no good deed goes unpunished. In the same thread where I gave a big compliment I get shot down for trying to be helpful. I will remember that.

Huh? I wasn't shooting you down -- I was for the most part agreeing with you. Sorry if I gave any other impression.

Just saying not to reinvent the wheel if you found something that works for you.

You've always been a troublemaker Dave.

-

I shoot 24 and edit 24. Vegas rules.

Well, I surely meant no offense.

I really liked your tutorial on editing 24P... I have paid money for some tutorials and yours was better... Keep up the good work....

Thanks, Eric . . .

David,

Thanks for putting that together. I'm coming back to video after nearly 10 years out (except for playing with consumer DV and MovieMaker etc.) You can imagine the change - I feel like Rip Van Winkle! In '94 I paid big money to rent a NLE offline suite that featured a 20 gig Hard Drive. I just bought a Maxtor 300 gig drive at Costco for $250.


I downloaded the Vegas Trial and have been very pleased with it. But I was worried about the mystique of 24p. Thanks for the clarity.

I always preferred shooting to post but Vegas makes it pretty darn accessible. You can then spent time on editing theory. For the most part I just want a solid, reliable NLE system for crossover dissolves and titles.

Thanks again for taking the time.

Ken

Thanks, Ken --

24p has this mystique or aura around it; people get nervous when they really shouldn't -- especially if they use Vegas.