Ok I think I have a workflow for my 2.53GHz p4 (768M ram, 200Gb free HD) in Vegas Platinum:

1) Capture HDV from camcorder
2) pull onto timeline and render to DV avi widescreen
3) edit the avi
4) render out final edited project as dv avi widescreen to make an SD DVD
5) select replace to swap avi files for original m2t on the timeline
6) render and print to tape
7) render as wmv 1080 for playback on the computer (maybe)

I have a number of questions though:

a) Does this look OK (espec for my spec computer)?

b) Is the replace function frame accurate when swapping avi for M2t on the timeline? If so how does it avoid breaking the GOP?

c) Is there any advantage to using a different capture program that will automatically create clips by scene change? In other words will the render to avi at stage 2 preserve the clips or create one big file?

Thanks in advance
David

Your workflow seems sound to me. Computer spec doesn't matter for you at that point though.
There are several HDV capture utilities that will split the scenes

I've got better results by replacing the DV avi with the original m2t before rendering for DVD.
Gearshift from VASST does this very painlessly.

Without Gearshift, how are you going to do step 5?

Vegas Platinum seems to have this feature on its own. Admittedly I haven't tried it but it doesn't mention the need for third party software. Is there something else I should know here?
Thanks

Vegas Platinum seems to have this feature on its own. Admittedly I haven't tried it but it doesn't mention the need for third party software. Is there something else I should know here?
ThanksThere is no “need” for 3rd party software. If you have a fast computer (i.e., P4 3.2Ghz+), you can edit the mpeg transport streams right on the timeline (there are lots of reason why you don’t want to do this but many people insist and Vegas allows it). If, however, your PC isn’t fast enough to edit HDV, then 3rd party tools like GearShift make this possible by allowing you to edit a DV proxy file and swap the HDV media back in before final render.

The original poster has a P4 2.53Ghz which is really not fast enough to edit native HDV. So he is planning to edit with DV proxies. This is what we use to do before PC’s were powerful enough to edit DV video. It’s an old strategy that continues to work great. GearShift makes it easier to do this.

~jr

I am the original poster. Sorry I think I may be causing confusion. My understanding is that Gearshift doesn't work with the Vegas MS Platinum, only the full spec 6c or 6d products. Unfortunately I can't afford those right now.

What I want to know is whether the replace function in the cheaper Vegas Platinum package works well enough as a proxy function, swapping edited DV avi for the original M2T files.

Thanks

The replace function works similarly to GearShift, except that it's manual and not automated.

Thanks DSE. Do you mean by manual that I just have to select replace in the menu and navigate to the correct file? I assume it then carries out the replace throughout the project (all clips on the timeline etc)?

And does it do this with frame accuracy?

Thanks

There is no “need” for 3rd party software. If you have a fast computer (i.e., P4 3.2Ghz+), you can edit the mpeg transport streams right on the timeline (there are lots of reason why you don’t want to do this but many people insist and Vegas allows it). ~jr

I have a P4 Dual Core 3.2Ghz with 4gb of ram. I do not think you can edit the m2t stream and have a good editing experience with an intermedite avi.

I bought Cineforms Connect HD and it gives a close to DV editing experience in Vegas 6D.

1) I capture via Connect HD with Scene Detection
2) I then import the avi's into Vegas
3) Edit
4) Render to whatever HD format, I usually go to WMV HD until Blueray or HD DVD comes out(on occasion on downconvert to SD DVD)

Am I missing anything or this what everyone else is doing.

Jon

Can anyone give a nod or frown to this workflow for 6d?

1. Record HDV with DV Rack HDV
2. Move files to editing computer
3. Move file to timeline and render as HDV 720-24p intermediate (changed to 24p myself and saved a setting for this)
4. Edit in V6d in trimmer tool, do post, make right
5. Render final in HD 720-24p MPEG-2 file

Does this work?

Thanks for the help.

Computer Specs
P4 3.0HT
2G RAM
2 SATA Drives

OK. I tried an experiment to see how well the replace function works in Platinum. I pulled an avi file on the timeline and rendered it out to WMV. I then started a new project editing the WMV file. Finally I selected replace to swap the edited WMV file on the timeline for the original avi. It was instantaneous! I was amazed. I assume it may not be quite so quick with an hours worth of footage on there and replacing with HDV (m2t) files but it looks promising. The original render took a fair old time (1 hour 40mins to render a 10 min avi to wmv) so I dare say this will be the bottleneck in my workflow.

It was really easy. In fact I don't really understand how gearshift could have made it any easier or quicker?

Because GearShift can replace hundreds of scenes, hundreds of clips, whatever you might have, in one button click. Replace in the Media Pool/Project Media bin, has to be done one clip at a time.

david,

i had to meet a certain deadline a while back when i edited 1080i/24F m2t's from XL H1 and i couldn't have done it without gearshift (search me threads).

i believe gearshift is only $50 or somn. it is not expensive compared to Connect HD or other solutions. it's really a time-saver (most of vst products are ;).

re: swapping. if you're regularly edit 1 source file, then by all means swap one file. but when you work with more than 1 source file, that's where gearshift comes in handy.

how does gearshift make it easier? an example is that i had 15 .m2t files and they all had to go into the same timeline. now imagine what you're doing for 1 multiplied by 15 multiplied by the color correction ya gotta do between SD&HDV. i think it does more, but you can check the link at the bottom of DSE&john's sig.

so, YMMV. work with many HDV clips, gearshift helps you. work with 1, by all means, experiment =).

Thanks both for your replies and I now see the Gearshift advantage. I would be happy to buy it but it doesn't work with the cheaper Vegas MS Platinum software.

I don't normally have more than 3 video source files when I edit but I do normally have them broken down into smaller clips. With my workflow I assume I'll have to keep them all as single files anyway so the overhead of individual 'replaces' will be minimal. I can't see myself doing much colour correcting either so it looks like I have a workable solution.

I hope this is helpful for others too. I'm sure there must be some editors out there who have fairly basic requirements but who have bought an HDV camcorder and who now just want something that will work. With the exception of the Womble editor (which can't print to tape), I've not found another package that will work well enough on older computers. Vegas claims a 2.8GHz processor with 512Mb ram and no fancy video cards will do the job and although that's slightly above my spec, I'm hopeful of getting a good result.

I'll keep you posted.

i believe there are some color differences between DV&HDV files.

There indeed is a difference in colorspace. ITU 601 for DV and ITU 709 for HD. Not huge differences, but different enough that it counts.

david,

re: swapping. if you're regularly edit 1 source file, then by all means swap one file. but when you work with more than 1 source file, that's where gearshift comes in handy.

how does gearshift make it easier? an example is that i had 15 .m2t files and they all had to go into the same timeline. now imagine what you're doing for 1 multiplied by 15 multiplied by the color correction ya gotta do between SD&HDV. i think it does more, but you can check the link at the bottom of DSE&john's sig.

so, YMMV. work with many HDV clips, gearshift helps you. work with 1, by all means, experiment =).

I'm glad I read this thread. I was having problems understanding why anyone would ever want gearshift. The reason why is I am always using only one video source file. However, that will change later on this spring when I will be doing a couple of childrens theater videos along with another one that will have quite a number source clips.

So I may very well need gearshift later on. I do wish the benfits of gearshift were more clearly explained in the ads for it.

Danny Fye
www.dannyfye.com

So does Gearshift automatically correct the colour of the DV proxy as it makes it? How much difference are we talking about? I'm hoping to use the DV file rendered by Vegas to make an SD DVD. Am I likely to see a big colour difference between this and the finished HDV project?

Thanks

So does Gearshift automatically correct the colour of the DV proxy as it makes it? How much difference are we talking about?GearShift only applies this colorspace correction for Vegas 5 users. Vegas 6 handles the conversion automatically so Vegas 6 users will find this option grayed out. If you are using GearShift with Vegas 5 you have the option to not apply it (i.e., turn it off), or apply it pre render or post render. With the pre render option it gets burned into the rendered DV file. With the post render option the render is done without the filter and then the filter is applied as an FX so you can remove it manually if you want later. The correction is subtle and GearShift gives you total control over it.

~jr

So does Gearshift automatically correct the colour of the DV proxy as it makes it? How much difference are we talking about? I'm hoping to use the DV file rendered by Vegas to make an SD DVD. Am I likely to see a big colour difference between this and the finished HDV project?

Thanks

I do exactly what you do to get to SD DVD. But I don't swap any AVI back to M2T. The documentation says this is not necessary and that the final result will be seamless. And I have to admit, I cannot tell a difference at all. I do though render a final M2T of the project and print to HDV tape as well for backup puposes - even if I plan to go to SD DVD. That way, I will have the project in HD for hopefully authoring to HDVD someday....

Not sure I understand you Phil. Do you mean that you don't use the replace function to change the avi to m2t? If not, how do you render a high def image to tape?

The one thing I am thinking of experimenting with is doing the render to SD DVD after I've done the replace (using the m2t) rather than using the avi to get to SD DVD. Don't know if there will be any quality difference though.

Not sure I understand you Phil. Do you mean that you don't use the replace function to change the avi to m2t? If not, how do you render a high def image to tape?

David - When you bring the M2T into your timeline - save as Video for Windows - Intermediate 60I format. The cineform intermediate AVI file that is created is large but editable. When you PRINT TO HD TAPE later, the renders are performed and the project goes back to mini-dv tape in High Def 60i format. No swap is necessary because you're using the intermediate Cineform file. Vegas figures it out somehow. And, when you print to HD Tape, you have the option of SAVING the newly rendered HD project as an M2T file. This way you will have a copy on tape and a copy on disc for later use either to print to tape again (w/o the rendering) or author to HD-DVD once all those issues are worked out.

I see no difference in the quality on this. The HD image on my 62" DLP looks great!

Ah, I see. You're using the Cineform intermediate. I don't think my computer is powerful enough to be able to edit this properly, (wouldn't run smoothly in the preview screen) so that's why I've stuck with the proxy method and the replace function, which I have to say works quickly and efficiently. I've just replaced 1hr 45mins of edited avi on the timeline (3 tapes worth and hundreds of cuts - poss over 1000) and it did this in a couple of minutes.

I'm very pleased with this software now I understand the quirks. I'd still like to be able to see the original date and time of the clips on the timeline though!

David