I have just installed PPro 2 and Aspect 4.0. I have a 7 min timeline in PPro 2 consisting of 25 captured Sony HDV test clips, on the timeline as CFHD. Timeline plays and scrubs normally (the image quality is breathtaking), nothing to be rendered, no layers, effects, etc.
Following Cineform's workflow instructions to produce SD DVD from HDV CFHD project, I Export timeline to Movie with settings set for CFHD 720x480, PAR 1.2, Lower Field First. About half way thru the export I get a "compiler error" "cause unknown" and the render stops. I have tried the Export with the Cineframe compiler quality setting at medium instead of high-- same result. When I look at the partial length clips that are produced, the quality is terrible with huge interlace looking lines and jaggies-particularly in the upper 1/3 of the frame-- as well as oblique artifacts, and areas of drop out
I've done a lot of fairly complex one hour projects in PPro 1.51 Production Bundle SDV on this system and never had an export/transcode/render problem. I have uninstalled/reinstalled Aspect with no improvement.
If anyone has some ideas, I would be extemely grateful.
Bob

Hi Robert, check each parameter carefully I noticed sometimes (in at least ppro 1.5 that the pixel ratios stayed at 1440x1080 or defaulted to 24 frames per second, anyway, try exporting progressive (no fields) to see if that works.

Mike

Mike
Thanks for the reply. The parameters seem OK. I haven't tried deinterlacing yet. What I am finding is that Aspect is unable to render anything off of the timeline correctly. For example, I capture HDV clips into a Cineform 1080 60i project. Everything plays and scrubs perfectly. If I just Export Movie to 1080 60i CFHD-- no change in size, field order, etc-- the compiler fails at some point during the render and the resulting partial clip produced looks terrible, the same artifacts as described.
This should be a no brainer. I have a robust system, PPro 2.0 should be fine, and Aspect 4.0 should just install and work as advertised. I have followed these threads for months prior to jumping into HDV. Most of the discussion is about how to make Aspect work "better", not how to make it work at all.
If anyone out there has had a similar experience, I would love to hear from you.
Thanks
Bob

Robert - are you using the full Premiere Pro or the try-out? The reason I ask is that I had similar issues with the try-out myself.

I've not yet bought 2.0 but suspect this could well be the problem.

Richard
I am using the full version of the complete 2.0 Production Studio.
Bob

Robert try bringing the project into after effects and exporting from there, also, try using the windows avi export with the cineform codec. Also can you describe exactly what your project consists of (transitions (PPro or Cineform) exactly what you have. How many tracks are you using, is it on the first track? 2? 3? every detail if you can.

MIke

Just for fun, and you get desperate, try using the project on the tryout version of PPro2.

mike

My own experience was multicoloured horizontal lines of 'interference' along the top of the video and grey wavey lines through the rest of the image. Short exports had this distortion and long exports would come up with compilation errors and wouldn't open at all.

This was on a 1280x720, 59.94fps project, so a bit more extreme than the usual Aspect HD usage... However, exporting into a huffyuv-compressed Microsoft AVI was no problem whatsoever.

However, I have conferred with CineForm Tech Support and they seem to indicate that it's the fault of me using the try-out. That said, the compilation issues sound a bit similar.

Stupid question time: have you re-installed Aspect HD again to see what happens?

I have uninstalled/reinstalled Aspect with no improvement.

Michael: My timeline is 7 min of 25 Sony HDV clips in CFHD 1080 60i .avi. No layers, transitions, effects, etc. This was just a "shake down" test project to examine how Aspect works and to investigate the workflow from HDV to SD DVD output.

A number of people have made suggestions to me regarding work-around solutions to this problem of the Aspect compiler not working. For me this raises the question: Isn't the Aspect software package supposed to work as advertised?? After all, I am following the HDV>>SD DVD workflow exactly as Cineform has recommended. Is it the common experience that Aspect is supposed to do A, B, and C, but it really doesn't, and that it is necessary to use other software to get HDV CFHD off of your timeline and into a deliverable format? Maybe my expections are not realistic.
Bob

Hi Robert, I would lean more toward the fact that if you do a work around it is in order to help locate your specific problem (meaning, the more knowns, the easier to figure out unknowns) try to get it to work then figure why it does not work the other ways. It usually if not almost always is something on my end when stuff goes wrong. Did you try the things I mentioned? How about going back to prem pro1.5 see if it still works.


Mike

Mike: I understand your logic.
I'll try your suggestions tonite and see if I make any headway. I have a Cineform ticket in as well. They just collected my Sys Info File, so maybe they will discover a straightfoward fix.
More in due course.
Many Thanks

Mike
FYI I found that if I use PPro Field Options to deinterlace each 1080 CFHD clip I can export to 480 CFHD (only in short segments to avoid compiler failure), put it in Encore and make a DVD. The Cineform compiler does not like any kind of interlace issues at all, on my system anyway. Also, I can export the 1080 Aspect project into AE and render it out using Microsoft .avi. There were some other approaches I used with modest results. Unfortunately, none of these workflow solutions has produced great video. I transcoded all of the various 480 output to m2v and played the DVD on a Sony 42" HDV TV with progressive scan, component input. Hands down, the best looking, highest resolution, most artifact free images was the footage shot in HDV and captured in SDV with Sony camera downconversion. And it looked way better than any DVD output I've ever obtained with my PD 170s.
So, I still don't know if there is something wrong with my system, or my software, or if this is just the way it is in the leading edge world of HDV at this point in time. A tinkerer's paradise, as opposed to a simple, efficient workflow. We'll see. Maybe my Cineform ticket will turn up something relevatory. But for now I'll probably use in camera conversion and regret that I spent the $500 on Aspect. My typical projects involve 120,000 frames, layers, effects, stills, titles, AE motion graphics, and so on. I can't imagine having to hand tweak, massage, import back and forth every single element of one of these projects. I don't think I would have the time.
I did go back to PPro 1.51. It still works fine with the Matrox RT100X card and software, but I had never tried to do HDV on it.
So, call me discouraged.
Bob

aaaaaaaah, you have never used cineform until recently meaning with PPro version 2.0 not 1.5? And there is a Matrox 100 in your system !!? I would call that your problem, I would bet (Pinnacle and Matrox are natorious for being real picky on what you do with/to them. This is probably a good example of stating a persons setup first, I would have steared you toward that reason, if you can, try a clean install without the matrox card, I would bet money it will work, do PPro 1.5 first to get a known good point, yep it is the matrox card does not like it (or the matrox software), give it a try. At least to find out if that is the problem.


Mike

I would do a simple test first. I would open a new project that is not handled by the matrox card or matrox card preset and render a test clip of sufficient length to repeat the error. You could also try and disable the maxtrox card in the control panel and try again on fresh premiere 2.0 project. That would be a quick check.

Pete

Just to be clear about my set up:
I have PPro 1.51 with the Matrox card and software installed as a plug in to PPro 1.51 only. I have never used Cineform with this set up.
I have recently installed full version PPro 2.0, with no Matrox plug in. Aspect 4.0 is installed and being used with PPro 2.0 only.
So the compiler error, failure to render type errors I am getting are with PPro 2.0/Aspect 4.0 configuration. This config has no Matrox card/software association. In fact, my prior PPro 1.5/Matrox projects will not even load up in PPro 2.0. That's why I left the old 1.5/Matrox on the system.
So, is it possible that the Matrox software/card can be screwing up PPro 2.0 /Aspect even tho Matrox not installed to that software??
Bob

Hi Robert I would bet money it is the matrox, not only the card, many times (pinnacle was notorious for it, once it loads its proprietary codec you lose the windows codec so even without the card in or enabled, it still uses the codec of the 3rd party (at least with pinnacle it did, not sure of Matrox.

Mike

Mike
Hmmm... Well I may have to uninstall all of the Matrox stuff. However, I do keep up with the Matrox RTX100 forum. I am reading many posts by Matrox/PPro1.51/AspectHD users who are not reporting any HDV problems with that configuration, so I was hopeful.
I'm still waiting to hear from Cineform support. They have not yet ventured an opinion. PPro 1.51 has a mini version of AspectHD included. It's hard to imagine that's a conflict with PP2.0/Aspect4.0 since Cineform is currently recommending that you leave PP1.51 installed when upgrading to PP2.0/Aspect4.0

Just try it with a clean ppro and aspect and see what you get.

Mike

If I might just add my experience on this.

I have Premiere Pro 1.5.1 and 3.4 (just upgraded to v4 but not really used it yet) installed along side my Matrox RT.X100 and I picked up this idea from another forum.

When you want to edit in Matrox Mode then copy the Cineform directory from your plugins directory out of the way and vice-versa when you are editing in Cineform mode. The idea being that on starting Premiere Pro you will have only one of the sets of driver loaded and so no possible conflicts. Make sure you have backups though.

I have created a couple of two line .bat files to do the neceesaary copying/moving of directories for me.

Doing this has certainly caused me to stop getting those annoying "unknown errors" from premiere Pro when editing/redering/exporting HDV footage.

Not sure if Cineform Support have an official position on this practice but it is working for me and does for others too.

Just don't do what I did and try to upgrade from AspectHD 3.3 to 3.4 when your system is in "Matrox Mode". No wonder it failed. D'oh!

Alan
I think you are giving me an excellent clue. I want to make sure that I understand exactly what you are recommending.

Here is my set up currently:
Matrox RT100 card is installed
Matrox XTools software is installed and plugged into PPro 1.51 only
New install of PPro 2.0
Cineform Aspect 4.0 installed and plugged into PPro 2.0 only

I am trying to edit HDV CFHD on PPro 2.0/Aspect 4.0 setup and constantly get the unknown compiler error when export/rendering the timeline.

What exactly would you recommend that I do to correct this configuration and solve the rendering problem? The PPro 1.5 Plug in folder does have Matrox items, but the PPro 2.0 Plug in folder has no Matrox items that I can identify.
As a last resort I will just uninstall PPro 1.51/Matrox completely, as Mike has suggested, but I would rather not, since I still have some Matrox projects online.
Bob

Tricky, and in truth I don't know the answer. I'm still waiting for a copy of Adobe production Studio here in the UK so I've only dealt with the problem of Matrox vs Cineform for Premiere Pro 1.5.1. I have no experience of how/if Premiere Pro 2 causes any conflicts as well.

I can't imagine why having Xtool installed fro V1.5 would affect Ppro2 because the drivers should not be being loaded when you start PPro2.

Of course, no matter which mode I'm in here, there is always some Matrox code sitting in the background and resident in my task bar i.e. WYSIWYG DirectShow Control Panel. Could this cause problems? I don't know.

I can't see how a plugin for v1.5 can conflict with a plugin for v2 though, so I'm not personally convinced this is your problem.

I would wait to install the 2.0 until Matrox is releasing the new driver for it.
The Maxtrox card/software is indeed very picky. Any change in the system can screw up the whole system.
I would advice to make an image ghost after you have the 1.5 working OK with the Matrox software. Test out througly before deciding that it works.
Only then tryout other stuff. In case it doesn't work it's easy to roll back then.

I uninstalled Matrox XTools software: no help
I then physically removed the RTX100 Card and plugged my capture firewire into a PCI firewire card rather than the Matrox card or the Audigy 2 firewire port.
After recapturing some HDV footage the Cineform complier works fine. No more failed renders and exports. At least on this 5 min series of clips.
Perhaps when Matrox releases the XTools upgrade for PPro 2.0, I'll try to reinstall the RTX100.
My main interest is improving the image quality on my DVDs. When I downconvert CFHD using Aspect Export, the final DVD images are softer, and have some faint interlace artifact compared to the Sony 16x9 in-camera downconvert. I am transcoding to m2v using the Adobe products. I've heard that Procoder 2 gives better results.
Thanks to all for your help.
I've used desktop NLEs long enough that I should know not to expect software to work just because I bought it and installed it. The triumph of hope over experience, I guess.
Bob

Congratualtions Robert! search the threads here for making dvd's they will look better than downconverting in camera, try some of the suggestions.


Mike

Hey all,

Sorry I didnt chime in on this one earlier. I was working on Robert's ticket and frankly had no idea what was wrong.

I saw that he had a Matrox board, but never suggested that he remove it assuming that there was no way that 1.5.1 Matrox plugins could interfere in 2.0.
Clearly that assumption was wrong.

I still dont understand exactly how this could be possible, but Im just glad it is resolved.

Thad H.
CineForm

Thad
There is one other detail that may or may not be relevant. When I still had the Matrox/PPro 1.51 onboard, I was capturing firewire thru the FW port on the Audigy 2Z soundcard. When I uninstalled the Matrox stuff, I also switched the firewire over to a PCI firewire card port. I thought I had recalled a post about problems associated with Audigy FW for HDV/Aspect, but am not sure. Have problems been reported with this issue?? I would hate to blame the Matrox RTX, if something else was at fault.
Bob

Robert,

I experienced EXACTLY the same problems you had, and after MANY try-and-error testing the result was: MATROX software and card. If you remove the software, or move it as suggested in some posting here, and the card is not removed, forget about it... Having either the card or the software, or both for that matter, created to me a lot of problems when trying to use the system with HDV or Matrox DV.

Just my 2 cents...

Luis

Luis
Thanks for the confirmation. Although I am sorry my Matrox system is history.
Bob