Well, I finally got my buddies together and shot a movie! It's not much and I don't think it will win my any Oscars, but it was sure a lot of fun to film. I learned so much during this filming too. It was great!

Well, take a look if you care to.

Was filmed on a Canon XL2 and edited with Avid Xpress pro and converted to streaming using Sorensen Squeeze 4.0.

So A Guy Walks Into A Bar (http://www.bohoc.org/shorts/aguywalksintoabar.htm)

you have the technical chops down, camera, editing , lighting , music, sound ... in general i found each individual scene better then the piece as a whole ?
they're good scenes and for me the piece as a whole isn't working as good as the indivdual scenes ...

very good for a 1st movie - keep us posted on your next ...

Hey thanks Dan! Yeah, I agree. The entire movie is sorta just off kilter and pretty much non-existant. When we wrote it we were laughing and laughing and then when the actual film was done we were sorta like. "Huh!?" haha.

You are correct though, I did the film to learn how to edit and stuff like that. We have two more shorts on the way and we are taking all the stuff we learned from this one and will do a MUCH better job on the next and the next, etc... :)

I gotta sya two things... First, the overall production wasn't bad. Two, puking on himself again? What is up with that shtick? That was a little weak, but the extra $10 was hilarious!

Just watched this, and had to congratulate you on both completing your first movie, and making me laugh; I'd heard the puke joke before, but had forgotten the punchline, and the thing about the yuppie's shoes was great.

I did have some comments, though, if I may be so bold:

-The opening sequence could've used a bit more light, I think. Maybe a piece of white foamcore, or something similar, propped on your lap while shooting to help bounce something back up onto the driver's face. Seemed a bit muddy. And was there a story reason for the character to make that U-turn? I was the teensiest bit distracted by that--the guy's not drunk yet, and he's been to the bar before (I assume), so I would think he knows where he's going.

-I'm unfamiliar with the giraffe joke, but while the homeless guy's in the middle of telling it to the woman, he's suddenly up in heaven with her? I was confused there, and wasn't sure what had happened (and why he's not the least bit surprised at his new surroundings).

-I notice in some of the shots where the camera's on a tripod (or seems to be, from my point of view), the framing wiggles a bit too much for my taste. When our friend first sits down at the bar, for example--two minutes and forty-two, maybe forty-three seconds into the film--there's a little bump upward. Nothing horrendously offensive, of course, just something that struck me.

That's about it, really. Hope I don't come off as too critical, I understand how hard it is to do anything at all, and I'm only trying to help out. Great job on finishing this, and best of luck finishing many more!

It was good for a first, but felt it was strung out a little long. You should of just cut to the chase. A quick scene of him arriving at the bar, some banter back and fourth with some drinking, some "wife jokes" (the battle axe comment was good) then hit them with the punchline. The punchline was great! I did not see it coming.

I think for a first film its very good - you managed to get good performances which is the main thing to aim for as a director, so maybe the fact that you were all having a laugh worked in its favour. Maybe try some more adventurous camerawork on the next one - the drunk scenes in the bar called out for handheld (and personally, I hate slow zooms). But I don't want to be too critical - i've seen films by so-called experienced directors that weren't nearly as good. I look forward to the next one

Hey friend. First of all... anyone can say anything they like... and that's a very valuable learning experience... but I must say I've helped out a lot of student films in my time and... these "professionally" trained students lack any heart or resolution... your film has both. I loved the ending. I loved the shuffle board montage. I agree with the u-turn. It was unneccessary, but I loved the bum and the woman in heaven... it's an artistic decision and I'm so glad you did that!

Congratulations on your first one. Check out Robert Rodriguez's ten minute film schools in his DVDs. starting with the Desperado/El Mariachi combo.

High Regards,

Dan

I gotta sya two things... First, the overall production wasn't bad. Two, puking on himself again? What is up with that shtick? That was a little weak, but the extra $10 was hilarious!

Hey Keith,

I wanted to show that he's a big drinker and that he's puked on himself before and that the last time he did do that, his wife practically killed him! haha. That's why he and his buddy came up with that eloaborate scheme to get out of it.

Just watched this, and had to congratulate you on both completing your first movie, and making me laugh; I'd heard the puke joke before, but had forgotten the punchline, and the thing about the yuppie's shoes was great.

I did have some comments, though, if I may be so bold:

-The opening sequence could've used a bit more light, I think. Maybe a piece of white foamcore, or something similar, propped on your lap while shooting to help bounce something back up onto the driver's face. Seemed a bit muddy. And was there a story reason for the character to make that U-turn? I was the teensiest bit distracted by that--the guy's not drunk yet, and he's been to the bar before (I assume), so I would think he knows where he's going.

-I'm unfamiliar with the giraffe joke, but while the homeless guy's in the middle of telling it to the woman, he's suddenly up in heaven with her? I was confused there, and wasn't sure what had happened (and why he's not the least bit surprised at his new surroundings).

-I notice in some of the shots where the camera's on a tripod (or seems to be, from my point of view), the framing wiggles a bit too much for my taste. When our friend first sits down at the bar, for example--two minutes and forty-two, maybe forty-three seconds into the film--there's a little bump upward. Nothing horrendously offensive, of course, just something that struck me.

That's about it, really. Hope I don't come off as too critical, I understand how hard it is to do anything at all, and I'm only trying to help out. Great job on finishing this, and best of luck finishing many more!

Hi Robert - Not being too critical at all!! These are awesome comments that I take with me and keep when I work on my next films. I did a lot of "artsy" stuff in here like the U-turn which was his decision to instead of going home, he decided to go to the bar and have a drink with his buddy. That u-turn was not planned and I really loved it when I got on camera and just had to put it into the film!

Putting the bum in the God scene was strictly to make it "artsy". I just thought I'd keep the scene consistent and throw in a little strange stuff too. :) However, the script is totally different in that spot. We were supposed to act out the entire thing, but when I was editing I noticed that it was WAY too long and so I decided to cut it off and create a new transition to the next scene - hence, the bum and the woman in Heaven. ;)

Camera work on this one... hmm. what to say about that except I totally underestimated how much thought needs to go into setting up a shot! I'm really happy I did this movie so that I could learn all of these things. Now that I have this under my belt, the next one I'll learn something completely different.

Thanks again for your reply Robert!

I think for a first film its very good - you managed to get good performances which is the main thing to aim for as a director, so maybe the fact that you were all having a laugh worked in its favour. Maybe try some more adventurous camerawork on the next one - the drunk scenes in the bar called out for handheld (and personally, I hate slow zooms). But I don't want to be too critical - i've seen films by so-called experienced directors that weren't nearly as good. I look forward to the next one

Hey Paul - I was so surprised at how well my buddies acted. The scene at the end when the main character "Mike" is talking to his wife... ahh... I can watch that scene over and over again and love everyminute of it! You are so right about handheld during the drunk scene though. I didn't even think of it!

Hey friend. First of all... anyone can say anything they like... and that's a very valuable learning experience... but I must say I've helped out a lot of student films in my time and... these "professionally" trained students lack any heart or resolution... your film has both. I loved the ending. I loved the shuffle board montage. I agree with the u-turn. It was unneccessary, but I loved the bum and the woman in heaven... it's an artistic decision and I'm so glad you did that!

Congratulations on your first one. Check out Robert Rodriguez's ten minute film schools in his DVDs. starting with the Desperado/El Mariachi combo.

High Regards,

Dan

Dan - I've watched the 10 minute film school from Once Upon A Time In Mexico. I LOVED IT!! That was one of the things that inspired me to go with Avid.

I really thank you for your comments about the heart and resolution. Doing films has turned from a passion into an obsession for me and that's all that I want to do now. We will for sure keep the same heart and passion in all of our next films. We have the same group of guys making the next two films. I had a small premiere for the movie in my hometown where it was filmed and after all the people saw that this wasn't just some pipe dream and that we actually made a movie they want to do more. It's great!

Thanks again Dan - your comments make me want to keep pushing to get my next one made and the next one.....

First, I got the point of the U-turn and I wouldn't take it out. It pulls you into the movie because you immediately start wondering why the guy is turning around.

I also thought you shot it really well for a 1st-time movie. My only complaint really was that I think it would have been a much stronger movie if you cut it down some. It starts to drag a few times (less of God drawing maybe, less footage of the guys at the bar in the beginning, things like that). The intro was just a little long for me as well.

The concept of the story was great. Very novel. I enjoyed that, AND the punchline at the end. Made me lol, ya know?

The only reason I think the turn struck me as odd was that the movie was called "So A Guy Walks Into A Bar"; as soon as it starts, we see "A Guy", and I just kinda figured he was already on his way to "A Bar". Not to mention the fact that he looks to me, at first glance (and no offense to the actor intended), like the kind who frequents bars, and doesn't just suddenly decide to go--I get the impression he's one who makes a habit of hitting a tavern once a day after work, on a schedule, if not a rigid one.

But I'm probably just projecting a personality onto him from my experiences interacting with similarly styled characters on construction sites I've been to. :) And it does make sense now that I've heard it explained, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

I'm happy that you thought that he's the kind of guy that frequents bars, because then we did a good job on making him look authentic! Actually, he pretty much just goes home after work these days. Back in our early twenties... well that's a whole nother' story. :)

Some tips that will make you better:

Technically you need to learn to asjust the XL2 for different conditions. It is a very diverse camera but not in the auto settings. Always operate on -3dB gain when possible. Set your knee to LOW unless you want blown out or super contrasty whites. Outside, set the blacks to press and set them to middle inside or stretch when there is not enough light in the background. Also, try taking the Master Pedestal and SetUp level down a couple notches for everything and even more outdoors. The exception being when you have to raise the MP to deal with a blown out background that you can correct the contrast in post.

Control the light when possible with the ND filter, NOT the aperature. Your goal is ALWAYS to be wide open. The sweet spot of the Canon 20X lens is from 10X to 16X, you did not use that length enough. You can get a TINY depth of field with the 20x if you plan your shots right. White balance was very inconsistent, some was nice and warm, other shots very cool. I prefer slightly warm, find a light blue card and bring it with you to every location and MANUALLY balance the camera. DO NOT USE AUTOFOCUS! The 20X is a tricky lens but you have to use it manual, especially in lockdown shots.

Aesthetically, the indoor stuff needs to be lit better, even if it is a lamp, home depot light, etc. you just HAVE to have some light that defines the edges of faces, etc. if you dont everything is flat and nasty in your wide shots. Try to use PUSHES not zooms, they have different motivations and most your shots seemed more appropriate for a push, not zoom. You need to have more tight shots and be a little more creative with your framing, things seem to drift to the middle. Lastly, try and get better sound, a boom should be your next investment.

Main thing is to have fun and keep learning...

ash =o)

damn! That's some good stuff Ash! Thanks!

I will print this out and take all of these suggestions for sure. You are very correct in saying that the XL2 is a tricky camera. I don't know 70% of what that camera does yet.

One thing to say is that I do own a boom and used to own the Marantz PMD670 compact flash recorder. Well, I used the boom on all of the shots with an Audio-Techica shotgun mic going into the PMD670 recorder. I have to say that I was surely dissappointed in the sound quality of that. It was tinny and short sound. I took most of the sound from the on camera mic for most of the film. I wasn't planning on that, but that's how it pretty much happened.

Thanks again for the incredible settings advice!! I will use it.

If you want a certain look I would be happy to help, just post a grab from a movie or a picture of what you would want it to look like and I will post/email you the settings...


ash =o)

Ash,

I must admit that, when reading your constructive critiscm, I was a little taken back, I felt bad for Mr. Rench for a few moments until I remembered a time when I was helping a professional director and he finally trusted me to do some camera work for him and I gave the actor too much headroom.

When watching the dailies he said to me, in front of eleven professionals...

"That's too much headroom, you have ruined the shot. It was the most important CU of the scene and you ruined it, I can only use my medium now."

Needless to say I was humiliated, devastated... everything... but I realized two things.

1. It would forever be written into my subconscious to ALWAYS check headroom when framing a shot (it's become natural now)

and more importantly...

2. I realized that I could trust anything this man says because he doesn't tell you what you want to hear... but what you need to hear.

One day I was visiting with him and I was showing him the first shot of a short film that I was working on... he paused and looked up and said...

"It's perfect."

and I had the joy of knowing that he wasn't patronizing me. He was being 100% honest.

In this business that is a rare thing... so thank you Ash. Keep being honest!

High Regards,

Daniel Riser

I only respond with criticism if asked for... if someone just posts "look at what I did" I will never say anything about what could be better. Remember, you learn from your mistakes and in something that is new to you, you may have to have those mistakes pointed out. The only reason I know this stuff so well is because I have screwed up so much stuff over the years!!!!!!!



ash =o)

I love the critisism. I don't take it bad at all. I've taken the good and the bad and taken the good and kept that in my back pocket and the bad I've printed out to go over with my DoP. We both agreed that looking back at the movie we realized all the things we did that we could have done better on.

Daniel - I loved your reply.

Ash - Your reply was so excellent that I will use it on my next film. I will also definately take you up on your offer to assist me with my camera settings. :o)

I worry about people who can't take critisism. Like you said Daniel, it was a huge thing for you and you are wise enough to appreciate it.

Ash - I'm a glass half full kinda guy so I don't call anything that I (or anyone else for that matter) do "screw ups" or doing it wrong, I say, that instead of being a screw up, it's a learning tool.

:)

Honestly, thank you all for your comments.